America's Economic Knowledge Deficit
While the talking heads regurgitate market tested buzz words, I'm taking the opportunity to clear my head today. Whenever there's a lot of noise it's a great time to sequester. I have had a dozen calls and emails since the day began about today's elections.
Here's what I think we should be discussing. Here's the real issue, as far as I am concerned. This is the discussion that comes before all of the "issues of the day". If you're looking for a great candidate to support, just pay your FEE forward .
NOTE: It's a bit slow to load, but well worth the wait IMHO. Enjoy.
unfortunately, society is 1000 years away from embracing this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States
Only about 25% of the total US population has a bachelors degree. 3% have their masters. This country is not intelligent enough to promote or understand basic economic facts.
Shit, this entire disaster could have been avoided if we learned basic rules that have been around for hundreds and thousands of years.
^^^ wow ^^^ I knew it was bad but I didn't realize the depth. Any thoughts on why such a poorly educated population has become so aggressively averse to agricultural economics and physical labor?
Because we are pussies.
I don't know man, the USA has so many college options. Most people live within driving distance of a CC or a state university. These programs offer night classes, online classes, weekend classes, etc. On top of that the wealth of knowledge available online is infinite. I remember 10 years ago when you had crappy Encarta. Encyclopedia Britannica before that.
People are just lazy.
I also have no problem with manual labor or factory workers, but everyone should know by now we are a) a knowledge based economy and b) competing on a global level. If you want to be a factory worker fine, take some welding classes, take some machinery classes and get an apartment so you are mobile. You cannot expect to live in the middle of no where, in a rural area and have jobs always be there for you. Become educated or flexible, or both, but never neither.
Agreed. There is a paradox I often struggle with in this regard, however. Namely, the state forces a lot of education upon us, even at the professional level. Just look at Asset Management, good luck running a fund without at least a CFA...try becoming a college prof without a PhD...etc.
Yet, education is something personal and (at least in my mind) internally driven. It seems as though the state endorses education whole-heartedly, yet as a people we are less and less educated.
Curious on your thoughts as to why the paradox exists and how it could (theoretically, off-course) be remedied?
the fact is the average student just can't compete with the academic all stars who set curves
I blame the high school system. People are labeled and divided at such an early age. High school IMO is where the love of knowledge goes to die. I don't know how to fix it, just saying what I feel.
In HS you are either on the college track or the loser track. Kids get disheartened and start forming an identity where they reject college in order to maintain their own self esteem. Kind of like being rejected by a girl you like and saying "she is ugly anyway". Additionally, once you are out of school it is hard to maintain this quest for knowledge. It is easy to get caught up in the daily grind of things, always trying to pay bills, raise a family. Before you know it you havent picked up a book in years and you have no desire to do it.
Anthony,
In general, I agree with what you say. But, in my opinion the biggest issue is that the factory worker also expects to make $60k (and the government tends to agree).
We need janitors, laborers, etc... As a matter of fact, I would have a lot of respect for someone hates school and would rather get a cheap place, work in a factory and enjoy the simple things in life. What I don't have respect for is the person who takes the no school/factory worker route, but joins a union, slacks all day and bitches if he isn't paid $80k per year.
No, completely agree. Unions are their own worst enemy in todays world. They think they can hold out, but the plain fact is they have no leverage and companies will either close shop or go bankrupt. If you look down south, at Japanese and German automakers, they pay their workers close to $20 an hour. An absolutely respectable wage.
I always hate the minimum wage argument also. Minimum wage was meant to be a starting point for basic jobs. No one is supposed to live off this. I think when you exclude very young workers and very old workers you have a group of people with zero marketable skills and most likely a weak work ethic. Go into any retail store, gas station, etc and talk to a manager and ask them about turnover. You will find that places that pay minimum wage probably have a 200% or higher turn over rate. People dont show up on time, they dont work, they gossip on their phone, etc. People that live off minimum wage do so for a reason.
Not everyone, but enough people.
To answer this question, you have to be looking at what the American education system if offering. Not to much. Yes you do have your Ivey league schools and your world renown Harvard’s but lets look at basic levels of education. Just look at the stats that the chap above posted:
'Only about 25% of the total US population has a bachelors degree. 3% have their masters. This country is not intelligent enough to promote or understand basic economic facts. '
The education system is flawed in it self, and depending on what middle school you went to High school you can only enrol in University X,Z but why not A,B,C,D???
What do a majority of people go to Uni for... not an education but to go and party.... lets be real ;a sides from a select number of individuals, ( on here, med school, law, engineers...comp sci etc) People go to universities to party.
The university system in North America is designed to promote partying.. I understand school spirit and that it should exists but these 'young minds' get consumed by it. Think about this comment literally
How many people do I know...even that you know that were in uni with you the 1st,2nd year and dropped out or 'switched 'out because they weren't committed either too much partying or they were up for it.
I am not here to bash partying… I do a lot of it, I love a good kegger as much as the next guy, but the main point of my whole rant (which I have had many times) is that students enrol in Uni and treat it as a 4-year vacation.. from reality.
The American educational system offers more than any other on the planet. You are very far off base if you believe that only the "brand name schools" offer a lot. If by "offering a lot" you mean opportunities on the basis of name brand, I will agree...but that's beyond the scope of this argument.
Also, your success at high school A,B,C,D in no way precludes enrollment in University X,Y,Z. In fact, students from "poor" (stretch it to academics or economics as you wish) high schools are able to enroll and receive great deals of subsidy to attend Iveys or other upper crust schools.
Though I agree with your general sentiment, especially the use of colleges/universities as "party sleep away camps" by the American youth, you are attempting to describe a disease via analysis of its symptoms.
The problem isn't that America's educational system doesn't provide opportunity or knowledge. The problem is that knowledge is no longer a pre-requisite in providing opportunity...
I point to our UNMENTIONED 75% WHO DO NOT HOLD EVEN A BACHELOR'S DEGREE as the most damning evidence and the most silent killer.
Now I'm done with my rant:)
Good point about high school. I didn't think of that but it makes a lot of sense. I knew quite a few people in high school who had potential and got the "crabs in a bucket" treatment from their "pals". Come to think of it, I was one of them:)
Minimum wage implicitly implies that there is such a thing as a maximum wage. Unions are an organized legalized from of intimidation. Nobody should be surprised that organized crime used unions as a front and white collar extortion mechanism.
I disagree with the notion that physical laborers are mistakenly expecting high wages. Physical labor is the most demanding and difficult work. It should lead to high wages...IF...done to an exceedingly high standard. Better said in proportion to quality level. If unions (for example) were able to adhere to a high functional/operational/quality standards instead of arguing by causation ("union made is best") I wouldn't have an issue with their strong arm tactics (well...not as much).
Construction workers can make a lot of money. Factory work in todays world is hardly hard work anymore.
True, but what about artisans? A custom made chair can fetch a year's worth of salary and takes a skilled worker only a few months to make. Not saying this is a growth industry or that anyone can do it...just suggesting something a factory worker may have as a tangential alternative. How many laid off factory workers you know that go into business for themselves? I honestly haven't met a single one.
I agree. When I think of factory work I think there are a lot of opportunities to add value and build on that experience. The thing is I have a masters and my thinking is probably different. When you are at the bottom of a huge hole it is hard to envision a way out. Tough situation.
I think the union mentality has a lot to do with this. That's why I equate them with communism. A homogeneous group creates an "us VS. them" ideology and ties itself to a single minded effort. The problem is when that ideology/union/company/team/tribe, etc runs out of bargaining position. Those atop the pyramid sell their underlings out to accommodate their own wants/needs. Subsequently, those on the bottom who were raised on a steady diet of "camaraderie crop" don't know how to think, adapt and survive on their own.
We can all agree with each other, but bottom line (and the worst part) is that once this thread is finished, we all will go back to our lives and not attempt to change a thing.
So what are we doing right now?
Speak for yourself. I used to volunteer a lot and once I start working I will gladly donate money to help under privileged children go to school. I'm also looking for my place to help out in Philly since i am relatively knew.
People can do great things if we all just do a large collection of little things.
I was making a point that the only way to change something like this is not by doing the little things but by transferring your energy into something bigger (ie policy change). Obviously little things like what you've done help on individual level but don't you think doing something new and big that only few can think of (that was not done before) will have a larger change? Otherwise, you are putting plastic straws to support a falling building.
Personally think that everyone should be forced to take some economics class I high school/college
I agree that this is a huge issue, but we have 350MM people in this country. If 30% of them have a college education of the bach level and beyond that is 105MM people who are educated and can help. All it takes is a little volunteering, a little donation, and little support.
In the old days we rallied together as a community to make a difference. Now it seems like we are falling back on charities and the government to help. Direct action is the most effective and efficient way to make a change.
Allow me to thread jack myself a little bit here. How big of a factor do you think religion plays into all of this? Perhaps not necessarily religion or faith on its own but the formalities of Sunday school/Communions/Baptisms, etc...in bringing communities together.
Religion is still a huge contributor toward basic needs and charity. Problem is religious groups cannot do everything. Combine this with the fact that church attendance has dropped.
I really don't think things have changed much, I just think the problem has gotten bigger. Money cannot solve everything. Parents need to parent. Communities need to not tolerate violence, drugs and other negative behaviors. Thats really it.
Everyone blames TV, but I look at cable and never before have I seen so much information and educational stuff.
People blame the media, but I look at internet and see so many opinions and outlets to voice yourself.
People blame parents, but raising kids is pretty simply. Someone raise George Washington long before the internet or LCD TV. Focus on the basics and things will work out.
I hate to simplify it to this point, but I do really think that the answer is in cliches and time tested expressions. Naturally, somebody will find a million to contradict the one I am going to use as an my example...but I really do think it comes down to:
Many of these verbal quips that are considered archaic exist precisely because they have stood the test of time.
I think this one maybe the mother of all of them when it comes to raising kids and instilling the proper mindset.
Feel free to disagree...I'm hoping to catch some DCFS donors on WSO for a verbal sparring session!!!
Read the bible, lessons a thousand years old could of spared us this whole financial crisis. People think things have changed, shit never changes.
The bible? You sir are a biggot!
I think the "economics" in this video are flawed. What about externalities? What about the fiscal multiplier? The prisoner's dilemma? They seem to reject all forms of government intervention in an economy.
Disclaimer: This is coming from a student.
Your serious? Adam Smith needs revision dude, that whole clip is so pro-free market and libertarianism that it is not funny.
Last I checked an education is a balanced one, that video clearly has one main viewpoint. There is various countries in the world who have thrived over time by doing other things than following everything in that video.
That video is basically say, let's throw pro-libertarianism and free market down young kids throats so when they grow up they vote that way. I do not see any education being done, "i see brainwashing".
no way to describe how hard I laughed when I first read this
Leonard E. Read (September 26, 1898 – May 14, 1983) was the founder of the Foundation for Economic Education, which was the first modern libertarian think tank in the United States.
Are you saying I am wrong? Or that you have the same beliefs and just think I am dumb I did not pick that one up.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar bro.
I just watched the video and just about everything they said was spot on. I suppose supporting liberty and rights is a bad thing Marcellus. What would you have us teach children? Communism and socialism ?
I don't understand why it's so expensive to get a degree in the US relative to other countries?
State schools are pretty cheap. Private schools are not subsidized so it is expensive. The state schools with a high price tag are ones that are in high demand.
Anthony, what about the people who have no capacity (read: brainpower) for higher education but still want to work hard as a factory worker or whatever? There's no way they can compete with the cheap labor overseas these days.
I'm just saying, we all make it sound like it's a matter of choice and that people are just lazy and unwilling to get an education, but if you have a sub-100 IQ I can't imagine college being a realistic or rewarding option. Such people are not going to survive in a knowledge-based economy. Should we just let them die out?
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