Many of you read Ben's post about talking to women in public and there was a rather diverse reaction to it all. Many had concerns about coming off as creepy or making a poor first impression while others had their own methods they found to be superior to what was suggested. Me, I'm likely a bit older than most of you and I can tell you without a doubt, the man's advice is sound (albeit lacking in specificity). I'll try to fill in some of the holes to bolster what I presume is his basic methodology (@Ben_KickassAcademy - feel free to pipe in if I'm off here).
The basic idea is to get out there and talk to people. That's it. If you're worried about being creepy, then don't be creepy. If you don't know how to not be creepy, well, you've got a whole different problem. Now, if you're unclear as to what is creepy and what is not, that's an understandable issue, primarily because creepiness can appear to be relative based on the person to whom you're talking. Let's consider the line Ben uses as an example:
Hey, I know this is totally random, but I just saw you and I had to come say you are absolutely beautiful. I’d be kicking myself all day if I didn’t come find out more about you.I’m Ben.
Many remarked that this is creepy but, this line is absolutely, 100%, not creepy in any way. It may not get you a date or a phone number but you're not going to look creepy by using it. That is, if you do it right. Like any statement, it can be delivered in both creepy and non-creepy ways. For instance, a young man could go up to a woman, lean in perilously close, and whisper in to her ear while touching himself and have a restraining order delivered within the hour (in the south, you might get shot). Because, yeah, that is super damn creepy. Or, the same young man could stand up straight, speak with confidence, smile, extend their hand in greeting - all the markings of a non-creepy guy - and find that nobody ever finds it creepy (crazy people not withstanding). Delivery is the key here. Even creepy statements, delivered properly, will be far better received than perfectly acceptable statements delivered poorly.
So, how do you improve your delivery? Same way you improve your interviewing technique: practice. They're the exact same process. An interview is you trying to effectively sell yourself in a short period of time to a company and spontaneous chit chat with random people is you trying to effectively sell yourself in a short period of time to a person. The content is different, companies want to hear about your experience and your background but, try and say the same thing to a young woman and you'll bore the shit out of her (I don't know how this works the other direction). Nevertheless, your elevator speech to a potential employer and your introduction to someone who has caught your eye are delivered identically.
The last bit of contention I noticed was in regards to attraction. The thought being that if a woman was attracted to you, you could get away with a lot more than if she wasn't. There's some truth to this, George Cloony can probably get away with more than the average guy, but the degree to which this is the case is greatly exaggerated (note: I'll bet Clooney's delivery is flawless). Women, on the whole, aren't nearly as visually motivated as men; not by a long shot. Remember, there's a reason why nearly every hot girl in history has said that she wants a man who can make her laugh while next to none have said that they want a man who keeps up his figure. This doesn't necessarily mean you should walk up and start cracking jokes, but it does mean that no matter what a man looks like, it can be overcome by being confident, likable, and humorous, or completely undermined by being creepy, douchey, and belligerent.
To close, it's important to note that when Ben says:
The best part is, this will change your life.It’s about more than just getting a date. For most people, the prospect of going up to someone during the day and giving a direct, genuine compliment is something they don’t do often if ever. It’s new and it can be scary.
Pushing your comfort zone like this can turn an already confident guy into the type of guy who never doubts himself, whether it’s the most beautiful girl in the room, the most successful guy at the networking event, or a room full of senior partners at a meeting.
He is absolutely correct. Putting yourself out there socially develops the same interpersonal skills that will benefit you in your professional life. To you single monkeys out there, you might as well hit two birds with one stone.
I actually like going out in NYC more than I do at college, where I would mostly just meet people at my fraternity house or like 3 different sketchy bars. At least at NYC you won't have the risk of running into someone you made yourself a fool in front of. And if you are out with your guy friends, they'll just laugh off the rejections and on to the next one.
I'd be curious what the advice would be for a girl - most of my female friends in IB have become exceptionally bitter over the years.
Great delivery and advice!
Something that irritated me about the post that is being referred was the overly sales-y, I'm going to hook you into something you don't really need, delivery. It sounded like one of those investment ads that promises a guaranteed strategy but never tells you what it is, always keeping you on the hook until it asks you to subscribe/pay now to find out what it is.
Thanks for posting, Ben's advice is right on the money and I was kind of amazed at the reactions in the original thread. Simply put, approaching strangers is the scarciest, hardest, MOST EFFECTIVE way to liven up your dating life. Many people don't have the balls, which is understandable, but they rationalize not doing it with whole slew of excuses.
I'd better see this at the next happy hour, broski.
@mikesswimn : good take, but my one small dispute is this: both men and women are VERY driven by attractiveness. All else being equal, the better-looking one is going to win.
And btw, ugly dudes all across the board for metal. Those guys don't have any trouble!
Oh boy, not this again. I don't want to repeat what I already spewed in the other thread, but the debate about an indirect vs direct approach can go on forever. If your height, build, and looks are all far above-average you can get away with saying anything with the right body language. Otherwise, an indirect approach lets you engage in some conversation as she decides what she thinks of you without her having to make such an abrupt and snap decision. Other than the point about your introduction being centered on her looks, I agree with the other points.
alright fellas, i'm going to give this a try over the next couple months (albeit in latin america and in spanish) and we'll see how it goes. if i can get a buddy to record me getting slapped (or having her drag me back to her apartment) even better. les aviso
Andy, please do this with 20 different women with a big grin on your face when you do it.
have a friend record it, and see what your hit rate is on getting a number. would be highly entertaining content.no matter what happened...have your iphone (or any othre simple recording device) on record in your front pocket to get the audio. done
i'm pretty curious how this would work with porteñas in buenos aires... we know how they can be when approached by strangers at a bar etc but i've always heard good success stories about going up to them in public during the day, just never really personally tried it, on purpose at least. nice thing down there is if they like they'll approach you, or throw their phone # in your lap, or ask where your from, etc etc
Women don't care if a guy stays in shape just like size doesn't matter...
100% spot on advice. I think the problem people have is approach anxiety and fear of rejection. They'll see a girl, work themselves up, and eventually decide against approaching (often making up an excuse). Then they'll resort to staring at the girl for the rest of night resulting in even more creepiness and awkwardness.
It's honestly a win-win situation. Either a) you'll end up hitting it off with the girl, getting her #, etc or b) you won't. If scenario b) happens you'll both go on living [trust me]. Plus, you won't ever leave a place kicking yourself for "what if."
In the end, it's all about shifting your mentality. You'll be surprised how easier life gets when you stop caring about what people think and aren't afraid to fail.
As with anything, it's the 90/10 rule. 90% practice and 10% theory. You'll never see any results if you stay indoors reading all this theory and never actually apply it or find what works for YOU.
no offense to these types of guys that frequent this site, but if you're ugly and short the odds will probably set you back with women, despite your level of confidence. while delivery is key, i don't think it helps everyone, and that's the problem - these tips are being communicated across as a measure of hope that "anyone can" so long as you act and say these certain things over and over, etc. - similar to how so many interviewees still recite fuckin answers from a guide. i think that's why the tone of feedback has been fairly reluctant, and feeds the anxiety even more.
pimply short asians will have a difficult time connecting, it's just the way it is. i've seen a lot of these at career fairs / res drops / networking events - i'm interested in how the hivemind treats these folks. at the end it'll still boil down to looks in some way, whether it's subconscious or not.
it only takes one though, so i think going in with an expectation of failure helps with dealing with a lot of the inevitables (plus, mentally preparing you for recovering your composure) more so than going in hoping each time if "this is the one".....
Not true. It's more of a culmination of the pimply short Asian kid's upbringing that causes their lack of confidence and frames their socially skewed perspective of how others view them: racism in high school, passive cultural etiquette, priority over book smarts than street smarts, etc. All in all, only confidence, power, and status matters at the end of the day for that pimply short Asian boy.
Skip to 9:30
Anyone who have a difficult time connecting at networking events or building a relationship with a girl, simply put, never had the priority to develop their social skills, body language, fashion sense, whatever it is. I've heard of many people who lacked those skills all throughout their childhood and into college, fail to get an internship offer, fail to get a job offer after graduation, and still manage to get into that coveted BB IBD offer. I hate the term "soft skills" or "intangibles" because just like math and reading those skills can be developed.
I also recommend reading The Game by Neil Strauss. Regardless of whether or not you believe in game, read the book just for the novelty of the story.
Do yourselves a favor and just read Rules Of The Game by Neil Strauss.
And your book as well, of course.
This book along with all of the other ones are in some ways in direct contrast to this OP as well as the other thread, in terms of introducing yourself under a physical pretext. I really don't understand why I'm in the minority here.
For what it's worth, I agree with you completely. Walking up and immediately complimenting a chick does not make sense to me at all.
Just one guy's opinion: what has always worked for me is being fun, able to make the girl laugh, etc., while at the same time acting overconfident/cocky. Not trying to write a manual on how to flirt here, but I've always found a little bit of teasing, for lack of a better word, really changes the dynamic for the better. The girl likes talking with you because you're entertaining, but she's also intrigued because there's an edge. There's something about appearing unattainable to girl that really gets her on the hook; I think it comes down to human beings' tendency to want what they can't have.
It might seem gimmicky, but in my mind this makes a whole lot more sense than basically telling a girl she can get you if she wants. Obviously that's not what you're saying when you pay her a compliment, but that's how she will interpret it in that 5 seconds exchange.
Or maybe I just prey on insecure chicks, who knows.
Don't have enough points to post a video. There is a company called simple pickup that practices the " tell them they're cute" direct approach.
I can testify that going to girls and telling them they are cute is not automatically creepy. It really just lets them know why you are there, instead of having them guessing that you're a crazy person.
Tomorrow I'm turning 40. I can testify that I get hit on 10 times as much now than when I was in college. So you have that to look forward to.
I tend to engage in conversation automatically...if they can't have an intelligent conversation then its not worth a minute more. So, I guess that's indirect - but I don't do it for them, I do it for me. There's (literally) millions of beautiful women in this world...only so many are also intelligent, articulate, and funny. Might as well do yourself a favor and figure out exactly where she falls in those categories as well. And personally for me if she's not up for that then it's a no-go. There's always a way to make an introduction without being either overbearing or lacking confidence. You just have to kind of figure out what works for you. But just don't be afraid to fuck it up...just like everything in life, being afraid to fail will guarantee that you fail.
I see myself in 3 years losing most of the hairs in my forehead. Would being bald be a game changer? I mean, will it be an automatic ding is what I'm asking.
@Datsik & @"Going Concern" - Guys, don't get me wrong, if you have a way to talk to women that's indirect and doesn't involve tossing lines out, more power to you. I'm not trying to say that the direct approach is superior to an indirect approach, or that it's superior to any other given method (in my single days, I was direct, indirect was never that effective for me). But, I can see how the post comes across in exactly that manner.
What I'm getting at is that the direct approach is superior to doing nothing. It's being scared of doing anything that's problematic. Sorry if this didn't come across, but I think you both will appreciate (maybe even agree), if you aren't doing anything at all, you might as well start out by being direct.
This I agree with. Thank you for succinctly articulating what no one in that other thread was able to.
Point well taken. If your problem is fear of starting a conversation, it's more important to start one than anything else. And you're 100% right about how, when done the right way, complimenting a stranger will not seem creepy.
If @"Midas Mulligan Magoo" was still active, he'd be having a field day with this topic.
The second you stop chasing a perfect image you 'believe' will make you attractive, the better off you will be with women. Also ... I can't stress the importance of talking to chicks.
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