A couple of the more liberal Democrats in Congress are introducing a bill with the catchy title, "Let Wall Street Pay for the Restoration of Main Street Act of 2009". Spearheaded by Oregon Rep. Peter DeFazio (you know, the guy who called for "Timmy" Geithner's head on a platter the other day), the bill proposes to add a 25 basis point tax to virtually every financial transaction, including stocks, options, derivatives, and futures.
I think the gentleman from Oregon is forgetting a few things. First and foremost, when has Wall Street ever absorbed a new tax without passing it on to the end user? Let's be honest. Any increase in Wall Street's costs are going to be shouldered by Main Street somewhere down the line. Second, the purpose of the proposed new tax couldn't be more nebulous. Half the money is supposed to go to paying down the deficit when members of DeFazio's own party are doing their dead level best to increase the deficit to absurd levels. Second, the other half of the money is supposed to go into job creation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but increased taxation results in job destruction last time I checked.
The stock tax measure specifies that tax revenue would need to support jobs that pay at least the median wage in the United States, promotes manufacturing jobs and prohibits any recipient of the $700 billion financial bailout from directly benefiting from the job reserve fund.
Just so we're clear: this proposal will effect just about every American taxpayer with a 401k (retirement funds are supposed to be exempt but don't bet on it) in order to foster a few thousand highway jobs. As for paying down the deficit, the party in power has only displayed a compunction toward increasing the deficit, so I don't buy that either.
This sounds to me like another naked ploy to channel populist rage into increased socialism at a time when the country needs the free market more than ever.
Don't tell me you actually believe politicians are concerned with the effectiveness of the policies they so vehemently fight tooth and nail for?
Not only is he well aware that Wall Street will find a way to avert the added expense, but he's probably peddling the backdoors/loopholes of the bill to wall street lobbyists while doing crystal meth off a dead fag-hooker's rigamortis shlong.... oh wait, he's a democrat, make that a living gay-hooker's taint.
There should be some sort of competency test before morons like this are allowed in government, although then we'd probably have a government consisting of two people.
its a mistake to assume that politicians are stupid, they are just responding to a set of incentives that doesn't prioritize smart policy and leadership.
These donkey kong democrats should be locked up in a cage until January 20th 2013. On what planet does a (decrease in net income) tax increase lead to an increase in job creation? I must have skipped that chapter in undergraduate econ. When people on wall st make money a lot of people around them make money too: Realtors, maids, nanny's, car salesmen, realtors, their wives' personal shoppers etc. Now that's what I call job creation. Eliminate 2 jobs and create 1
It's not even a matter of Republicans vs. Democrats - nowadays it's a matter of corrupt douchebag in the pocket of large corporations and Wall Street who signs 1000+ page bills without reading them vs. actual representative of the people. Anyone who votes for the bailout, the healthcare bill, the cap and trade bill, etc. is clearly the former. Oh also, needless to say, so is Obama. (McCain would not have been any different).
Oh no, the world is ending! Taxes on trades?? NO!!!!! Maybe next the communists will propose that because everyone is the same, all capital gains will be considered ordinary income and we will have to pay more than 15%. Seriously, lets move somewhere a little more to the right, like Cuba.
Folks, you seriously need to calm down. Why people in Finance think they are some special class or aristocracy that deserves preferential treatment is beyond me. Your contribution to the world is minimal, and you make the most money. Now, don't get me wrong, if you like it, you shouldn't feel ashamed or guilty in the slightest that you have a job where you don't really create anything and make a lot of money- if its your passion, go for it. But why people assume that they deserve preferential treatment, or that somehow they shouldn't be taxed a lot more than people that make a whole lot less, is beyond me.
I hope you get molested.
edmundo, way to turn WSO into a pseudo conservative pandering site.
Hate the game.
but you aint a playah, so that line doesn't apply
Honestly though...a 25bps increase...wouldn't that just make the instruments more expensive? I don't see how this really hurts big WS players, only the people with little capital will be hurt...like with all taxes. We've seen in the past that taxes on the "rich" and those that we perceive to be able to pay them hurts "Main Street" more than Wall Street. Look at the taxes in the 1970's, looks like a 70% tax bracket was the way to go! I wonder how long it will take the government to know that the best intervention and aid comes in the form of no intervention or aid. Way to go! Dems going to bat for the little guy (oh...i meant on the little guy)
It is rather interesting to me that usually democrats are on the 2 ends, as in the lower classes and the uber wealthy (like a Buffett, Gates, etc.). Its obvious why this is the case for the lower classes, but the super wealthy are probably more liberal because they realize that all the money they have made is not, as republicans seem to think, based solely on their own brilliance, but rather because of some luck and the fact that society rewarded them disproportionately.
And again I ask how a 25 bps tax on trades, especially on derivatives which (aside from something like commodity futures which have some purpose for farmers) have absolutely no purpose for existing other than for people to speculate on, will hurt anyone.
Right ... so only farmers are allowed to hedge their risk? Multinationals receiving revenue in a variety of currencies shouldn't hedge their FX risk? Or they shouldn't make their borrowing costs less volatile and more predictable and hence help them making better future decisions by using interest rate swaps? Or pension funds shouldn't hedge their interest rate risk and hope the yield curve stays static? (of course ... because the yield curve never changes right ?) Or long-only portfolio managers shouldn't ever buy options to hedge their downside risk right, coz equities go up forever? Or all the creditors who lent hundreds of billions to Dubai shouldn't buy CDS's to hedge the downside risk after the government standstill?
You're right, derivatives only exist for speculation and all the flow on trading desks comes from only hedge funds (who had absolutely nothing to do with the market recovery ... it's not like their ownership of 40% of the equity which went to recapitalise banks was of any use.)
Aside from the currency fluctuations, yes. Imagine that, a world in which people invest in companies and not things called "stocks," which have nothing to do with business, which you need to hedge because if it goes down 70 bps tomorrow you are fired. Or imagine if people actually used their head before buying debt, instead of piling up on CDS.
This is exactly why business schools fail. They have dozens of classes on idiotic things like derivatives, modern portfolio theory, etc. and have no class on common sense investing.
or the democrats on the other end are complete hypocrites.
1) if they want higher taxes b/c "its just not right" then how about they send uncle sam a bigger check.
2) they can push for higher taxes b/c it doesn't affect them. it is a tax on income not wealth
also, speculation is a good thing. puts more information into the markets, makes prices more fair
It's a tax on ALL transactions, including regular stocks. The rationale is that the "joe sixpack" investor will buy-and-hold and therefore be much less affected than Wall Street.
I'm not a conservative but you have to admit that this is downright retarded. The costs will get passed to investors and traders. This means higher expense fees for mutual funs and ETFs by extension. This plan basically shaves 25bps (at the very least) off everybody's returns. Since taxation isn't efficient, we're basically making people poorer to bandage a small part of the massive deficit the govt is wrecklessly pursuing.
That one of the congressmen behind this graduated from my alma mater makes me question the validity of my degree.
Ladies and gentlemen, can we take a moment to catch our collective breath?
25bps?
From what I’m reading here, you would think 25bps will cause the fall of capitalism and the end of the financial world as we know and we will all be goose stepping commies reading Mao’s little red book and calling each other Comrade if it takes place?
I took 10 seconds to Google the proposal and this is what I found and I provided links so no one thinks that I just posted what helps my argument out. This is what I found:
The tax would be applied to stock transactions (at 0.25 percent), futures, swaps, credit default swaps and options. In an effort to make sure it does not affect pension funds or average investors, it would be refunded for the first $100,000 of transactions annually, as well as for tax-favored retirement accounts, education savings accounts and health savings accounts.
DeFazio notes that the United States had a similar tax from 1914 to 1966. The United Kingdom currently has one, he writes, and maintains "the highest volume exchange in Europe." He said the British experience is evidence that such a tax would not push trading overseas.
Wall Street giant Goldman Sachs announced yesterday that it is donating $500 million for a program to help small businesses.
On to my editorial:
25bps on 100k in transactions. $250, that’s what we are talking about here, won’t buy me and my wife a steak dinner and a bottle of wine at a nice restaurant here in Dallas. I my younger days, I could drink up that much on a Saturday night. Someone mentioned Joe Six Pack and how this would affect him? I was a broker for a few years and I can tell you, Joe Six pack doesn’t do 100k worth of transaction in a non retirement account a year. Joe Six Pack isn’t doing, swaps, futures, credit default swaps or options [at any significant level]. He may dabble in FX b/c he has seen a late night commercial saying he will get rich, “by following my patented easy to read red light/green light system in the currency markets”.
Joe Six-pack is paying 5 and 6% up front or back end fees through his broker at ML or MS or wherever the hell. He won’t notice his upfront fees on his mutual fund went from 5% to 5.25, and if he does, it won’t stop him dead in his tracks and make him draw a line in the sand. “I won’t invest another penny till this gets repealed!”
This is more about Goldman Sach’s and their vaunted doomsday trading program, than about Joe Six-pack. All they will do is pass this on to their customers who will end up paying 30bps on the 25bps Goldman has to pay, helping Goldman pocket 5bps per taxable transaction. All the nanny’s and personal shoppers and doormen, and chauffeur’s need not worry about losing their jobs just yet.
Besides, half of the money raised goes to deficit reduction and the other half goes to making small business loans. Small business create the majority of jobs here in America, so any negative effects from the tax would be offset by the more than positive effects that the small business component would spur in job creation and tax base expansion.
Deficit reduction AND job creation for 25bs, not bad.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/18/politics/politicalhotsheet/entr…
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/business/18goldman.html?_r=1&sq=goldm…
^^ nice post, little too optimistic though.
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