Forbes just released the list a few days back (Jan 9th). What do you all think of the group this year?
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I think this will contribute to an increased self-loathing among America's aspiring young professionals. Look at these people, just a few years older than you, making fucking bank. And for the majority of the list, that's all that can really be said - just superstars at America's most entrenched financial institutions. This is even worse than the media perma-jizzing about young tech entrepreneurs.
Completely agree with StJamesPark. I thought the opening story was a nice touch. How do I make sure the industry titans have my mobile number? I'm guessing I need to update the old LinkedIn profile.
To hate them would pretty much unjustified,sure I envy them but nothing good would come out of it.All this is a result of hard work and being there at the right time, at the right place.
It's up to the individual if they give a fuck about a list or not.
One of the judges is the founder of Glocap [major NYC finance recruiting firm].
The other is from BX [private equity mega fund ]and the final is a hedge fund guy.
Worked with one of these guys--extremely sharp to say the least. Work is literally his life. However, that's what it takes to be the best.
sigh...
Looks like 90% traders/HFs, as usual
Why are they only VP's if so good?
Moran (mistyped for Morgan maybe?) is my favorite :D
A friend of mine that used to work on her desk said she is dating someone high up at Forbes, so if that's true I wouldn't read to much into her selection.
Who said anything about reading? ;)
So relieved I don't recognize anyone on the list. That Modi guy is legally blind? Wow
How did the 29 year old VP at BAML make the list? She's in their Middle Market platform i.e. commercial banking, which is primarily composed of people who went to a non-target and couldn't break into traditional IB (I went through BAML Middle Market Banking Analyst program). I would literally shoot myself if I was still there at 29 and only a VP. Several people I personally worked with were made VP within 3 years of completing the Analyst program (so 25-26yo). Thankfully I was able to transition to IB after the 18-month program was over...
Where's the kid that turned 5 bucks into 5 billion while still in high school in NY? Figured he would've been on the short list for about 24 hours, but maybe they pulled him out before publication.
WTF is up with that terrible website
Agreed. I can't get past Ryan Israel.
I went to HS with one of those douchebags. He was an asshole then and is likely still an asshole.
And thank you for the tip.
Did anyone else think the Media girl for Skimm was insanely hot?
Their success is admirable, but I don't think it's worth it. I am sure most guys/girls on the list are really fucking depressed and live a shit life with all the stress and no time to relax. When I die I won't look back at life and think: "Shit, I shouldve spent more time at the office and less time enjoying life and having fun."
FOH
Bullshit. This is classic defense mechanism. Most successful people are actually happier than others. Yes, they work hard, but they enjoy the work and are enjoying the fruits of their labor.
I doubt that very much actually.
The people on this list are probably, for the most part anyways, better than you and I.
It's one of life's sinister truths: people at the top are at the top because they're the best. There are certainly some exceptions - we all know truly lucky/deeply unhappy souls who occupy elite positions for reasons other than their talent & intellect - but I'd bet even money that by and large not only are the people on the Fortune 30 under 30 smarter, harder working, and better connected than their age cohort lower down the totem pole, they are also happier, more stable, and enjoy greater fulfillment too.
The typical Harvard grad is better than the typical Ohio State Grad, the typical Goldman banker is better than the typical boutique banker, and the typical person on this list is better than the typical WSO poster.
Yup. This is totally right. People don't want to admit this because it makes them even more insecure. They tell themselves that the people on this list are actually miserable, but in reality, not only are they smarter and more successful, they are also happier! Iloveoptions' comment is so off base in every way imaginable. Plenty of people regret not working harder and being wealthier. The lack of money and prestige is one of the root causes of unhappiness in men.
There is a great post on the elites which made its way on the blogosphere about 5 years ago.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/ub/competent_elites/
I have to disagree. And that's why I hate these lists. People either fawn over these folks who, for the most part, frankly haven't done too much in their careers (it's too early and who cares about some VP/Principal etc), or rip them apart and speculate how terrible they must be as individuals or that they have terrible lives, or that they live happier, more fulfilling lives or whatever. My point is: WE DON'T KNOW.
These people ARE NOT necessarily better than you and me. They might be better at their jobs - hence why they are on the list (amongst a host of other possible reasons). If by that extension you mean that as a person, they are better, then sure. I won't argue there. I might shake my head at your definition of being a "better person" but I digress.
Are they smarter? Maybe or Maybe Not. Are they better athletes? Maybe or Maybe Not. Are they better people (have empathy, strong family/friend connections, care about others around them, or whatever definition you may use)? Maybe or Maybe not. My point is... WE DON'T KNOW.
The typical Harvard grad may be SMARTER or better at GAMING THE SYSTEM and TAKING TESTS than the typical Ohio State grad, no doubt. That does NOT make them better. It might better position them to get some job at GS or Och Ziff or whatever (kudos - they are tough jobs to get), but it does not make them better than anyone else.
Look, I went to an Ivy (had a "typical" GPA, btw) speak a bunch of languages, played a bunch of sports in HS, blah blah blah blah blah. Who cares? I hate it when people put me on a pedestal because I did well in school (which by the way was a long time ago) and was lucky enough that my application was liked by a few people who read it compared to the other 80% of applicants who were just as qualified but didn't get in. That DOES NOT make me any better than anyone here or any guy on the street. A lot of it was luck (the family I was born into, the schools my parents could afford etc.) Yeah I worked hard, got good grades and played some cards right and got a ton of breaks along the way, but that does NOT make be BETTER than anyone here or some random person on the street.
Posts like the one I quoted above are examples of the kind of thinking/mentality that are endemic in finance. It's attitudes and thinking like that which are partially why so many average Joes and people outside of finance, especially post Lehman, loathe the industry, distrust the people in it. It also makes for a toxic work/social environment for those in the industry or those surrounding it.
In the end, most of these people are not re-inventing the wheel, curing cancer, or making bajillions of dollars like Zuckerberg, or saving rare dolphins. Let's not forget that and stop wasting time.
I'm going to take my own advice and end my rant here.
I personally only know two of the people on the list, but they're both really happy people.
10000% agreed. I'd bet large sums of money that most of them hate their lives and/or have no real life.
Wrong. You and Rogersterling make the same mistake that is rooted in envy and insecurity. Most successful people at this level are actually quite happy with their lives and the work. But keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better at night.
Rogersterling's comment was especially egregious and hilariously detached from reality. The whole "these guys can't get chicks, so it's the only reason they work hard" is a line used by failed jocks who tell themselves this lie in order to feel "superior" to those who are more successful.
it's interesting to work that hard before you're 30... why not wait until you're making real money and then work your ass off at 35-50? 20s are just too valuable.
Because in finance you pretty much need to be a rockstar in your 20's in order to capitalize on the best opportunities and work at the best firms. The people on this list are so successful that they are pretty much set for the rest of their professional lives. Once you're past 30, it's SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult to break into an elite firm and get on the fast track. Besides, it's always better to make sacrifices when you're younger.
THIS
There's a disconnect in many of these comments. We support those who share their stories on this site; those who have a goal and pursue it with everything they have. We celebrate their drive, perseverance, and commitment to the narrow goals that we all set for ourselves.
I see no difference in the stories highlighted in Forbes. Hard-working, smart people who may have had their shit together a little sooner than some people on this site (myself included). Do they deserve to be idolized? Hell no. But I'd rather be thankful that Forbes is spoon feeding me various paths to success, than bitter that some people are at the top of their game.
This victim mentality brings to mind one of the greatest gems on this site, "Laziness and the Merits of Hard Work" (albeit the context is slightly different):
"Not because they contributed something that isn’t being recognized or acknowledged… but because someone else is doing well and they are there to say “what about me, why am I not doing well? It must be because the system is unfair. I’m being exploited.” @Marcus_Halberstram
I cannot agree more (I'm 31 now).
Few people have this mindset. So many people seem to feel that when you are young you should just work work work to make money while your body can still take less sleep and abuse. It's kind of sad, because I feel the 20s are such an important time to personally develop your identity (this never stops), build professional skills, try new things, explore new places/ideas (Again I think this is a lifelong thing...) continue or start building really close family, friend and professional relationships (which takes time and effort) that will hopefully last you until you die. These are tough to do when you are sitting in a cube 20 hours a day or always on your phone checking work stuff.
When you're like post 20s (ok this starts in the latter 20s) people start getting married, having kids etc and won't have the time or resources to try to do things they want to do, explore or dedicate themselves to building professional relationships and deep friendships, since they have actual family commitments (ie. their spouse/newborn).
I say all of this because I have a lot of peers who are a few years younger or older than I am (as well as some friends who are 10-15 years older than me who also act as mentors) who complain that they don't have hobbies and now that they are VPs/Directors/MDs etc, don't know what to do in their spare time, don't date or know how to, don't have many close friends or people they can trust etc etc etc. None of them have made a 30 under 30 list, but they have strong school backgrounds, great GPAs, have done very well professionally in finance (all kinds of fields), are highly respected in their fields etc. etc etc... Almost all, without a doubt, worked super hard in their 20s, played their political cards right and all that jazz...
On the list itself, I always look at it and kind of cringe. Nothing against the people who made it, good for them. But why be in the spotlight now and have mags/people fawning over you when you have not made it yet? I would HATE to be doing well and make such a list and have more scrutiny etc. I'd rather just do really well, be a good person and make a ton of money and keep at it as I get older. Maybe I'm weird like that.
I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but finance unfortunately has become pedigree obsessed and the barrier of entry keeps getting higher.
A good friend and I were talking about this recently. He argued that in finance there's a "halo" effect that comes into play. By that, one gets on the fast track out of college, and people think that person is a badass because of his resume, and he is able to progress relatively easily provided he works hard and doesn't screw up. I think in finance getting your foot in the door is one of the hardest obstacles to overcome, and it compels people to bust their ass off in college and in their 20's so they could get their chance at glory.
I'm in love with both the girls running luxury equity research as their respective banks.
You think that girl from Moelis is into old men? I hope so.
well under normal circumstances the answer is yes when the older man in question is a BSD with pockets deeper than Kim Kardashian's asshole, but since she is a VP at Moelis (and fuck they pay well) I am guessing the yes depends on how literal the BSD is ...
I agree with mbavsmfin and disagree with DickFuld.
I mean I hope she does not like old men. For I too would knock dust.
Lifestyle creep. I seriously doubt anyone on that list is happy with their comp or coasting. Bravo to them though, although I think these forbes lists are basically self congratulating.
Dude, these guys and gals are making SERIOUS bank. I'm pretty sure they work their butts off, but I doubt they're unhappy with their comp.
Who the hell is ever happy with their comp?
This is by far the strongest 30 under 30 finance list ever. Holy fuck. These people are so impressive that it's utterly insane. Truly humbling.
These lists are bullshit and really dependent upon whether or not your roll in the right crowd of people. I'm sure these people effectively nominate themselves are are the self-aggrandizing type for the most part trying to build their "brand". I'm not saying these people are sht workers by any means but take these lists with a grain of salt. VP's at bulge brackets and an ASSOCIATE from Blackstone... gimme a break. Also, what VP runs anything, anywhere?
There are a few BS people on this list, especially the girls covering the luxury space. But damm, the vast majority are scary impressive. I can honestly say that I would rather be some of those guys than be a U.S. Congressman or vast majority of pro athletes.
Likely an attempt by Forbes to bring women onto the list, but only reaching out to the the first chicks they could find. Female VP covering luxury is not uncommon or that impressive, neither is middle market banking at JP. I'm sure there are more successful women under 30 who aren't on the list. Good stuff nonetheless.
How old are most VPs?
I'm more interested in how someone does math blind (or anything for that matter).
That's what I was wondering! It seems difficult to think that someone could "get" financial concepts without seeing the information. Wonder if Bloomberg has a braille terminal...
I also like how Ackman was able to hijack this list...dude has been everywhere this month.
Bill Ackman is one of the most alpha men in the world right now. He is nothing but net.
The legally blind guy is really impressive, I wonder how he does all the math and programming with barely any sight.
mbavsmfin = Brady
There should be an over/under of how many divorces these people will have, or how many of them will end up with kids that hate them. Line should be 55 on the divorces and 12 on the kids thing. Any thoughts WSO?
After you read this list, ask yourself, are you happy? If the answer is yes, then this list doesn't matter.
If the answer is no, then this list still doesn't matter, because you better find another way to be happy other than appearing on a list that is more exclusive than making it onto an NFL roster.
I have no idea if they are "happier" than me. I know I'm happy, and I hope they're happy too.
Some people will always have more money than you; deal with it. Some people will always accomplish more professionally than you; deal with it.
And 99.99999% of the world will have less of both; be grateful.
lol the things mbavsmfin says are just totally baffling. just totally star fucking these ppl for their resumes. no doubt impressive but damn, comeon man it's like you're ready to get on your knees for some impressive sounding words on a business card
You ever see a woman so fine that you unlike her Facebook picture just so you can re-like it... yeah, me neither.
In all seriousness, the list is impressive, but what makes me jealous is when I'm sitting across the table from a young business owner as they describe to me their inability to manage the explosive growth they are experiencing and looking to me to help them run their company. Nothing brings out the why-the-fuck-am-I-here-instead-of-running-my-own-firm rage faster.
I completely agree with this. These are the guys that are really making the exponential jump to success (from a wealth perspective to be clear).
Again this is also a finance list and caters to most people on WSO. Maybe that is the problem, that many of the people on this site have their narrow sights on PE Partner, Portfolio Manager, etc. Don't realize that if they created the leading market player in the Church Management Software space, they would be killing it without having to report to any institutional money grubber.
Guess its all perspective.
p00f
Co-sign. I know one of the HF ballers on the list and he's got a great career, personal, and social life. The hate in this thread is comical. You can have it all - preftige in all aspects of life.
there is a BLIND ALBINO INDIAN in this list. Why has no one mentioned this!?
The people on this list are undoubtably very successful.
That said, getting on this list does not mean you are literally the top 30 people in finance under 30. What it means is within the sphere of hundreds of equally successful and talented individuals they some how got noticed via a) firm PR, b) family connections, c) personal connections, d) social/career network, etc. The editor says we need 30 finance kids and the staff then reaches out to their contacts - whether that be professional or personal - to complete the story, likely with the least amount of resources possible and in the shortest amount of time. I don't think its a coincidence that every banker/trader/buyside person is from NYC despite equally talented and prestigious individuals in CHI/SF/LA/TX etc.
Taking into consideration point 2 - no need to get all wound up over these kids, fawning or hating. They have achieved great things and its cool that they made this list but similar to what Israel said about his job at Pershing - I got lucky, but I created my own luck. Also, I'm sure they don't work harder than anyone else is a good role in finance and are not miserable souls. If I had to guess they work fairly standard hours as other high performers in their respective industries and have social lives that correspond to their respective personality types.
Ah yes, the annual BYOB thread (Bring Your Own Butthurt).
One of these guys used to work for me. He was definitely a pretty smart guy and he was well adjusted (despite some of the weird claims here). But, would I have put him in the top 30 under 30 in the entire country? Absolutely not. I would not have even put him in the top half of analysts that have worked for me in my career. Which is why it's probably wise to not be butthurt or get your panties wet over this list.
This is just crushing Brady's fantasy.
More Asians on the list... Hmm...
The biggest thing this list is missing are the guys from Lumina Investments.
Hello guys Mark my words i will do everything to get out of my 3rd world country and make it in this list !! (f*k you shitty country!) Whatever it takes ! Salute
Congrats to the blind dude.
The 3 judges aren't really anything special, so the list has very little merit.
Not something I'll ever have to worry about, but if I made this list I'd demand that they used a picture of me as a centaur.
i am always skeptical of these lists. my buddy makes $5mm a year and isn't on this list. there are so many that keep a low profile that it's scary.
Agreed. A guy from my absolutely non-target state school started his fund with 200k of family money and is now managing around $50m on his own with no employees. He would prefer to keep a low profile as well. They are the ones that won't be the movers and shakers according to some CEO of a recruiting company, but whose trades will eventually have enough volume to impact the markets.
Also @Jamoldo - love every. single. part. of your post. And you being an ivy league grad makes your rant even better. But I guess that shouldn't matter. lol ;0) I do find it interesting that every name I clicked on was an Ivy leage alum... I mean, I know most in the finance world are, but hopefully for my sake, a decent amount have BS/MBA's from non target schools...?
And we shouldn't all lose our shit over these lists.... there were absolutely the result of in-house PR execs or PR firms doing what they do best.
OYE! STOP WANKING OFF WATCHING THIS LIST! I went through the profile of just 3-4 of them, NOTHING special! Most of them are VPs in teams. Woopadi fucking woo. Make MD before 30 or partner before 30 at GS or Blackstone and that will be a bit more impressive.
Almost all the people on this list are average working bankers, like so many in the big banks. The reason they are on here is because A. they do a good job at their bank with HR recruiting and got recommended by their HR department B. They are such self promoting wankers that they personally submitted their resume to Forbes for a chance of being on that list. C. They are good at their job like so many other people out there.
If your aspiration is to become one of them: GOOD - because it's really not that hard. Get in a big bank, work well and you'll be happy. Most of the people on this list are not making amazing amounts of money either, I can guarantee you this - with all the differed comps, lowered salaries, lowered bonuses, etc... Nothing exciting about it either.
PS: Well done Forbes, as they get people talking about the list at least and young grads like all of you excited about a career in Finance. PSS: No they are probably not miserable and are enjoying life. It's good to be in banking, I'd rather have a nice pay check and buy a nice house then share a flat with some pot heads while working in a dead end job with "good" hours.
There's a decent number of buyside guys on this list. You can't rise up at a place like pershing square, apollo, Blackstone, KKR, coatue, point state, unless you're REALLY damm good. Now who knows if they're truly the best 30 under 30 in all of finance, but they're certainly super up there.
Agree with your very last point. These guys are CRUSHING life and are happier than 99.99% of people out there, including pretty much everyone on WSO.
Agreed. With the exception of a handful, most of the people on this list -- while exceptional, obviously -- actually have fairly standard profiles. I'm pretty sure between my peers and I, we could come up with an alternate list and it would be difficult to tell which one was the actual Forbes list.
I expected to see a lot of young kids there but most of them are just conveniently 1 year short of turning 30.
They should just call this the Forbes 29 since most of them are that age.
Wow! A couple of people from my boarding school are on this list!
Honestly, Ryan and Modi are the only two that impressed me. VPs under 30 are a dime a dozen in banks.
I'm just having a hard time not laughing at mbavsmfin's continuous slurping.
Do a lot of these people hire publicists to get on this list? They are all super high achievers and it is a great achievement. I know some guys who are under 30 and running 100mm+ at top hedge funds but perhaps less public ally visible.
No. Most people are recommended by others because they are such ridiculous super stars. The panel then vets them through a long exhaustive process and carefully weighs their accomplishments and contributions. The notion that these folks are just hiring HR or PR to get their name out is inaccurate and stems from jealousy.
Not much to add about this year's list, but this past summer I worked for one of last year's inclusions and interviewed with another. Both were incredibly bright guys who think about things differently than most other people I had ever met in finance.
Each also was part of a legacy business of their firm, but in one way or many, meaningfully shifted the nature of that business and the firm's place. I would be surprised if anyone made it onto a list like this by simply being 'the best' at a business/service without taking a different approach and building something somewhat new.
Both also had excellent work-life balance, happy home/family lives, and a good sense of humor. Go figure.
Cool to see two ladies I know on this list. Both are very nice and helpful as well.
I'm dying at the MS being thrown at Brady.
Jesus, how is Tim Caflisch a Principal at KKR @ 28? I would literally (ok, more like figuratively) let an angry gorilla bite off one of my nuts for a shot at special situations ... some guys have all the luck (and I'm sure this dude is also talented).
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