How Not To Screw Up An Internship

I saw a lot of interns come and go during my time at the Brothers Lehman. Some were good, some were bad, but honestly, I can’t remember any of them. You know why? Because I had other shit to do than to deal with stupid interns. I was running a giant trading desk with a multi-billion dollar book, and I was spending most of my time plugging holes, trying not to lose money to customers or to sales guys or to errors. When I wasn’t fixing other people’s fuck-ups, I was drinking in a bar or drinking at home. I had very little energy to sit around at teach the futures basis to some kid.

So the first thing you will learn as an intern is that Wall Street folks are primarily self-interested and they don’t really care what you do as long as you stay out of the way. Some of them will even give you a “project” whose sole purpose is to keep you out of the way. Beware the “project.” Nobody really cares whether you do a good job on the project or not. If you sit in a corner working on a project all summer, chances are that when the HR people come around to ask if you should be hired full-time, even if they remember your name, they won’t have an opinion about you.

But the alternative, sitting right next to someone at the desk all day and constantly asking questions for six weeks is a bad idea, too. Unless you are an excellent conversationalist, and you actually know something about the markets (you don’t), this is going to get old fast. So being an intern is all about a good mix of being visible and invisible, and being visible and invisible at the right times.

But here is the key point:

although most financial folks are cranky and insufferable, the one thing they do have in common is that they have a passion for what they do, otherwise they wouldn’t be sitting there doing this stressful job for progressively less pay while being called assholes on a daily basis by the financial press. As I’ve traveled around, nobody loves their job more than traders and bankers, even though you’ll never hear a rah-rah speech about it. So, as an intern, if you know enough to ask the right question, that shows that you are informed about what is going on and that you care about the industry, too, then you’ll get me talking and we’ll have a nice conversation. And maybe I will remember your name.

But crucially, the idea is to be informed rather than to sound informed. School is over. This is work time. It’s not like your Organizational Behavior class, where you get docked a grade for every week you hand in a paper late. In my world, if you hand in something a minute late, you’re fired. So you either buy into this career and make it your life, eat, sleep, and breathe it, or you find something else to do, maybe some government job, where your day ends when you get home at 5, and you can leave work at work. So there is no class that you sit in and take notes and write papers and learn about Wall Street. How you learn about it is to immerse yourself in it, like moving to a foreign country, and learning the language. At the end of the summer, the traders and bankers will be able to tell who the pretenders are. The interns that did it right—asked questions and learned and did the work—those folks you could hire them on the spot and just plug and play.

One more thing. It helps if you interact with these people socially. Don’t make a nuisance of yourself, but grab a drink with them every now and then. Wall Street people have some of the most finely tuned social skills you will find anywhere. This is another test. If you can’t be client-facing, there’s not much they can do with you, unless you’re exceptionally talented. I speak from experience.

 

Wow this is a must read for interns. +1.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 
Best Response

Great post, although some slight disagreements on two points:

1) While I agree that an intern project is nowhere near as important (or at least important in the same way) as an intern likely thinks it is, it's not always the case the project is entirely meaningless...I've seen interns not get return offers ostensibly because their final presentation/project was just not up to par (among other things) and showed a lack of interest or competence or both. This depends on the environment/group and may be somewhat less relevant to a bank trading internship for instance. It's like the SATs when applying to top colleges...it's not going to get you in on its own but you should still make sure to crush it.

2) I don't agree that "no one loves their job more than bankers or traders" or that they are all passionate specifically about what they do (although it's likely beneficial from a practical standpoint to assume that they are and proceed accordingly). The fact is, even with declining compensation in the industry, there are not too many other jobs out there where you can make a large amount of money (relative to the average american) with little to no hard credentials or graduate education. Less relevant today, but back in the day you could be a big swinging trader and barely have gone to college if at all. Plus a lot of trader types come from scrappy backgrounds, so give them an opportunity to make a boat load of dough by punching some keys on their keyboard and making a few phone calls and that can arouse a semblance of passion pretty fast.

 

"One more thing. It helps if you interact with these people socially. Don’t make a nuisance of yourself, but grab a drink with them every now and then. Wall Street people have some of the most finely tuned social skills you will find anywhere. This is another test. If you can’t be client-facing, there’s not much they can do with you, unless you’re exceptionally talented. I speak from experience."

In your experience, how would one suggest getting a drink with their boss? Just save some time beating behind the bush and ask them if they want to go to the bar later? And how far along in the internship would it be appropriate to go out for drinks with them? Month in?

Once I did bad and that I heard ever. Twice I did good and that I heard never.
 

Can never be repeated enough: No matter how friendly you think people are or how candid you feel you can be around them, don't ever talk badly about other people in the office; you never know where allegiances lie. Keep in mind that not only are you the "new kid," having to gain everyone's respect not only from a work perspective, but also as a regular human being, but you must also keep in mind that spending three months with analysts who have spent ~one year with the rest of their coworkers isn't that long of a time.

Having just gone through an internship at an elite boutique (EVR/GHL/LAZ), a smaller environment definitely enhances the camaraderie between your fellow summer analysts and the full-time analysts you are working with. Hell, I even felt like I could shoot the shit quite casually with just about all of the associates and some VP's by the end of the summer. However, I saw one SA in my group lose an offer precisely because he decided to participate in a joke that he perceived to be okay since so many full-time analysts participated. Given, he was joking around about one of the most universally disrespected people in the office, but the mere intimation of a fickle personality from an outsider can be enough to deter someone from standing up for you when decisions about who gets an offer are made.

I am not speaking about this in some bizarre Machiavellian sense. It just comes down to being a good human being, or at least coming off that way despite any inclination towards shit-talking.

 

"One more thing. It helps if you interact with these people socially. Don’t make a nuisance of yourself, but grab a drink with them every now and then. Wall Street people have some of the most finely tuned social skills you will find anywhere. This is another test. If you can’t be client-facing, there’s not much they can do with you, unless you’re exceptionally talented. I speak from experience."

Good god are you sipping the Kool-Aid

 
Jared Dillian:

If you can’t be client-facing, there’s not much they can do with you, unless you’re exceptionally talented. I speak from experience.

Jared, how "exceptionally talented" does one need to be for this not to matter?

What are some other roles/paths you'd recommend for someone who can't be arsed to do the whole social song-and-dance with clients/coworkers on the sell-side, but still enjoys the challenge of investing/trading?

 

Quo eos omnis nemo doloribus dolore doloribus. Aut explicabo tempore dignissimos nulla omnis. Et omnis quas ea velit consequatur velit ratione recusandae. Id fuga natus facilis id id.

Quis et qui facilis non. Ut necessitatibus non consequatur et voluptatibus expedita. Sunt et et sed enim et quibusdam aut. Debitis rerum iusto atque qui. Nam facere sint mollitia et officiis.

Consequatur nostrum beatae vel eos assumenda architecto mollitia soluta. Voluptatem est cum sed soluta est quam voluptatibus. Ut perferendis maiores voluptatum odit et facere. Quibusdam numquam nihil ea dolor facilis quas.

Possimus eligendi excepturi qui asperiores. Repellat cumque amet quaerat dolor ipsum illum voluptatibus cumque. Magni est qui eius aut rem magni. Et ducimus fuga ut autem ut rerum sed. Omnis voluptas illum alias animi et. Eos quo voluptatibus voluptas voluptas et sequi. Enim delectus nihil vel perferendis incidunt dolores eum.

Career Advancement Opportunities

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. New 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (87) $260
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (14) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (205) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (146) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
4
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
5
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
6
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
9
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.8
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”