Learning Chinese Mandarin worth it?

Hey Guys,
I was wondering whether or not It is a marketable skill to know Chinese Mandarin? I am majoring in Economics, minoring in Business Fundamentals, and taking 4 semesters of Chinese Madarin. Eventually, I would like to do business in China, I see much growth potential in China. Are there any careers straight out of college which would make practical use of this language skill? Just to show you where my thoughts are: A big ambitions of mine is to become a venture capitalist in China one day.
What are your general thoughts about learning the Chinese Language, and how useful will this language be to my future career options?

 

as other monkeys on here will probably say - don't learn chinese just for the career possibilities, do it if you also enjoy it. I lived there for 8 months and had a great time learning to speak (and i couldnt eat/do anything without this) but once I returned back to the states and didnt need it anymore I had to make a choice if I really wanted to keep it going or not.

I started taking classes, but it was at the level where you have to learn to read / write - which takes a lot of dedication (vs speaking where once you master the tones is quite easy to master at an intermediate level compared to Spanish for example with lots of irregular verbs, masculine/feminine, subjunctive tense, etc).

I decided to study another language but one (Spanish) that I enjoy learning a lot more and is spoken in countries I want to live in. It's much more of a hobby than for career purposes.

If i were you, try some classes to see how you like it, and definitely try to do a study broad and/or internship there during school.

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there are a billion chinese people who speak chinese better than you ever will. it might help picking up asian girls though, if you are into that kind of thing

If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars. J. Paul Getty
 

Point to note: It's only going to get more difficult, not less, for non-native speakers in China. It's getting easier and easier to find talented, educated Chinese analysts, which means there's less space for people from outside of China. Chinese-Americans, and even guys from Taiwan or Singapore get looked at funny if they don't have native-level speech, because they're not "real" Chinese.

 

To become fluent at a business level you could probably learn Spanish/French/Portuguese for the same amount of time as Mandarin.

Being fluent in languages other than English is only going to become less important as more of the world becomes English proficient.

 

re above, despite this, at least when I was there ('06) there are a TON of Chinese who want to do business with the states. If you can develop an intermediate level of Chinese and network with the right people there (high levels in government / business), I think the possibilities are endless, especially if you have some entrepreneurial spirit. Loads of clever expats already doing this, but plenty of room for more imo.

also if you decide to do this make sure to practice your "guanxi" skills http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi

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I have already taken two courses in Chinese Mandarin at my University, and I am expecting to study abroad in Shanghai next summer. Will my Chinese experience and language skills improve my chances to make it in the Finance Industry? Will it look good on a resume if I get all A's? Do any firms regard Mandarin as a marketable skill? If not, I might think about opening my own international firm eventually. What is the general consensus on Wall Street about learning Mandarin? I realize the language should be learned more for hobbies sake, but does it look good to employers on Wall Street or investment firms?

-- Best Wishes, J.V.
 

I would be hesitant to conduct deals or anything else that requires extreme precision. Keep in mind a lot of the phrases people use are cultural.

- Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered. - The harder you work, the luckier you become. - I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
 
Ske7ch:
I would be hesitant to conduct deals or anything else that requires extreme precision. Keep in mind a lot of the phrases people use are cultural.
well yeah for any important business decision have a professional translator assist you through the whole process. They are very easy to find / very reasonable fees. I can even recommend some in the Shanghai area
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Talk to international pimp, he took 4 years of mandarin in college, has worked there for a couple years and barely considers himself proficient.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

Not sure if troll or actually serious. Regardless, unless you are an ABC (American Born Chinese), taking 2 semesters of Chinese and studying abroad for a summer in Shanghai isn't going to get you anywhere near being proficient. You probably still won't be able to have basic conversations, let alone being able to read and write.

 

If studying abroad and having been born in a foreign taught me any thing, it is that English really is the only language you need. Many foreigners can speak two to more than five languages, but the language they all know is English.

And this is coming from a guy who is bilingual and was not even born in the US.

 

I am not expecting to jump into mainland China and be fluent in the language. My desire is to eventually do business with China or live there and do business in China. With the negative comments, it seems as if you all think it is too difficult of a task. I am not asking if you think it is too difficult for me to learn. What I am asking everyone is if learning the language will be beneficial, or if any American financial companies think highly of someone who can speak and read/write the language. Thoughts?

-- Best Wishes, J.V.
 
vossj:
I am not expecting to jump into mainland China and be fluent in the language. My desire is to eventually do business with China or live there and do business in China. With the negative comments, it seems as if you all think it is too difficult of a task. I am not asking if you think it is too difficult for me to learn. What I am asking everyone is if learning the language will be beneficial, or if any American financial companies think highly of someone who can speak and read/write the language. Thoughts?
Long answer short, yes it will be beneficial (though like the above comment mentions about opportunity cost, your time could be better spent elsewhere learning a skill that will have a higher payoff). I can't speak specifically for financial companies, but everyone I have ever told that I speak some chinese has been impressed - so I'm sure it will at least help some
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Of course it's beneficial. That's a retarded question.

The REAL question is OPPORTUNITY COST OF TIME, which is what was implied.

In consulting, if we know another language, we can do business in those countries and have strong client-leading roles even at entry level since some case leaders don't know the language.

I don't know how this would apply to finance, but perhaps there are tangible roles there when you get to do more sales at more senior levels.

However, you really need to consider time. Don't overlook it.

Just my .02

 

IMO, if you want to go for a high-tech startup or big company in china, intermediate level is enough since most ppl you are dealing with can speak English, though not so fluently. We could not consider Chinese or other languages as the English. English is THE most important and widely used language so everyone is expected to be business fluent, however, for second language like Chinese/French/Spanish etc, they are only a plus when you are building relationship with local ppl but not to use to heavily in business.

So go for it if you enjoy learning it.

 

even if thought you may not achieve "native" proficiency, knowledge of some Mandarin will be very useful. it's better to have some proficiency in the language so you don't have to rely on a translator for EVERYTHING if the other party doesn't speak English.

also, learning mandarin will benefit you in ways that go beyond its business purpose.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?
 

Cost alot of money , and is quite difficult from what I hear. Worth it because it is spoken by 1 billion+ people.

The Four E's of investment "The greatest Enemies of the Equity investor are Expenses and Emotions."- Warren Buffet
 
Best Response

ABC here... but parents shoved chinese down my throat when I was younger and boy am I glad for it...

If you feel learning Chinese is something you'd enjoy, go for it. If it's to work at a bank/PE/HF in HK / Beijing / Singapore,. then forget about it. Am at a BB in HK and there are kids rumming amok here from Beijing U. and Tsinghua who speak English literally like they are native and of course their Chinese is impeccable.

Chinese, especially business chinese, is exponentially more difficult to learn than any of the romance languages. It's a completely different type of language system (i.e. a tonal language), and the nuances of how you express yourself in this society matters significantly.

Focus on things you have a competitive advantage in - you can always do business in China if you have other skills that are valued (and let me guarantee you Chinese wont be one of them)

 

Only learn it if you are interested in the language. 4 Semesters of Mandarin (especially when studying the language in a non Chinese speaking country) will get you pretty much nowhere close to be able to do business in Chinese. You will only be able to have some basic conversations and not starve to death. I know people who studied Chinese in China for like 6 years and still don't consider themselves fluent.

Nevertheless, I certainly believe Chinese is useful, which is the reason why I decided to do my undergrad degree here (now in my senior year). I already had some background in Chinese since in senior high I was in TW as an exchange student, so I was confident enough that my Chinese ability was good enough to get me through college here. (btw, I'm no ABC or anything) I have learned Chinese for about 4 1/2 years now, taken business and finance courses in Chinese, got a bunch of local friends etc. but I still feel that there is an abundant amount to learn. It is simply much more difficult to pick up new words from a conversation or reading a newspaper as opposed to for languages like Spanish etc.

As for job prospects, most firms expect you to have business proficiency/be fluent, even though it often actually means that you are supposed to be a native speaker. In terms of business with China it is also important that you have "guanxi" (relationships) with officials there, so Chinese are preferred. Even Chinese who did their degree abroad are often looked down upon in Mainland China (different story for TW for example though).

Another extremely important aspect that 4 semesters of Mandarin in college won't teach you are the cultural differences etc., which are crucial if you want to successfully do business in Asia.

Hence, if you are serious about learning Chinese take the 4 semesters, do a semester/year abroad and if u really want have meaningful conversations (be able to talk about general business or political stuff, not necessarily yet business Chinese) plan to spend at least another 1-2 years after college in China or TW. Finally, don't necessarily put so much weight on it when Chinese tell you how great your Chinese is (definitely not after a couple of months and even not after a year or two), since they are just being polite.

 

It would definitely be a nice skill to have, it's just a matter of if you're willing to take the time to do it. It's a pretty difficult language to learn from what I hear.

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
 
unslain:
It would definitely be a nice skill to have, it's just a matter of if you're willing to take the time to do it. It's a pretty difficult language to learn from what I hear.

The state department says it takes 2200 hours to learn as opposed to 575 for spanish, so yes, it's a bitch. OP, keep in mind your GPA. I'd love to learn Cantonese or something, but not as much as I'd rather not explain why I have a 3.6 instead of a 3.8 due to some language classes.

 
Romneybot:
unslain:
It would definitely be a nice skill to have, it's just a matter of if you're willing to take the time to do it. It's a pretty difficult language to learn from what I hear.

The state department says it takes 2200 hours to learn as opposed to 575 for spanish, so yes, it's a bitch. OP, keep in mind your GPA. I'd love to learn Cantonese or something, but not as much as I'd rather not explain why I have a 3.6 instead of a 3.8 due to some language classes.

Cantonese is even more difficult to learn to speak than Mandarin Chinese, on account of it having more tones, but you will also probably not need it for business. Cantonese is more for regular conversation in HK.
 

I agree with everyone's advice about learning it as a hobby/learn it if you are genuinely interested in the language and culture. It's a time consuming process and if your motivation isn't big enough, I would heed Xepa's advice and spend time on something else!

My formula for success is rise early, work late and strike oil - JP Getty
 

Having interviewed hundreds of young men and women who wanted to trade FX, I can tell you that, I would rather hire someone who made the effort to learn another language. And, yes, I am a bit biased as I speak three languages perfectly well, and a couple of others quite well. Those languages have certainly helped me be successful in my business, even if it was to say a few words in their own language to my clients, before we turned to English.

Hope this helps

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If your main goal is to become a VC at China, forget about learning Chinese. Your goal should be to get into VC firms like http://www.sequoiacap.com/china which has their own China Coverage. To me, its an opportunity cost. Too much time wasted in learning Chinese. Focus more on technical skills and networking.

The thing that most people have not talked about here is that China is like everywhere else: who you knows matter and not what you know. It is dominated by elites, mainly the 太子党, translation: The Prince Club. http://soundofhope.org/programs/769/213006-1.asp (in Chinese). They are sons and daughters of current party members. Most of the major deals (banking, VC) are done through them. Without their blessings, nothing will move through (groundbreaking mega deals).

And there is no point of learning Chinese or spending time to get to know people in that group. What you can do is to leverage your resources by representing a company like Sequoia Capital, which has their own connections and resources within China, that could help in reaching to your goals. That's just my two cents.

Your Path. Undergraduate > relevant internship at banking, consulting, starts up > full time position with VC or even consulting firms focus on China (Sequoia Cap) > get transfer to China office > quit that job (once you already know the sector and people on the ground) and start your own gig.

And to reiterate my point on why learning Chinese is a waste of time, a quick summary:

"Q: OK, point taken – but wouldn’t knowing the language give you a big advantage and let you compete more effectively with people from mainland China? A: No. Q: Becoming 100% fluent in written and spoken Mandarin has about a 1% chance of helping you break into private equity here. A: These “exceptions” I’ve referenced were already 100% fluent in the language and could read and write extremely well, and they were still pushed out. Most of the foreigners here are now in fundraising roles, even if they worked at bulge bracket investment banks before and earned MBAs from top schools. No one is interested in foreign professionals anymore, and it’s not even about the language – it’s that the work culture and deal environment here are so local." (M&I)

Background: I am native Chinese speaker from South East Asia, works in IBD in New York and keeps close contact with Chinese bankers in New York Community.

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 

One thing that a lot of people don't realize about Chinese, is that the grammar is actually very simple to learn. There's no verb conjugation/modification, as there is in Western languages. For instance, instead of "I ate yesterday, I eat today, I will eat tomorrow," it's essentially just "I eat yesterday, I eat today, I eat tomorrow."

The difficulty of Chinese comes from learning the accent, and becoming able to speak the words so that they sound correct to a Chinese speaker. If you're good at learning accents, or have Chinese-speaking friends to practice with (and listen to them speak), then learning the accent isn't so bad and the grammar will come along easily too. Studying abroad in China will also dramatically help you acquire a good accent. But make sure you put a lot of effort into developing the accent early on, or bad habits will be really hard to eliminate later.

 

I am going to second a lot of the thoughts above. Learn Chinese because it's interesting and you want to do it, not just for career purposes. It's unlikely that you'll become fluent enough to do business without a native speaker on your side, but it's still great to be conversational. It's also basically impossible to do meaningful business in China without some serious networks of native Chinese (the Guanxi mentioned above).

I'd also say visit China and ideally live there for a while before you decide it's your promised land. I personally love the Middle Kingdom but it's not for everyone and it's got its pros and cons like anywhere else.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
 

As a native speaker, I must second sxh6321's post. Actually, as long as you have a deep pocket and well established connections, you can do very well in any business in any country without speaking one word of their language.

 

Again, learn it because you're genuinely interested, not because you think it would help you with your career! Until you're proficient (business wise) in Mandarin and get integrated in the culture, it would not make much of a difference. You might want to check out the latest WSJ article on this subject http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527023041771045773057803002659…

My formula for success is rise early, work late and strike oil - JP Getty
 

[quote=Quarterlife]Again, learn it because you're genuinely interested, not because you think it would help you with your career! Until you're proficient (business wise) in Mandarin and get integrated in the culture, it would not make much of a difference. You might want to check out the latest WSJ article on this subject http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527023041771045773057803002659…]

Great article. Thanks for sharing.

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 

I summered with someone who spoke Chinese and he kept getting paired up with this analyst who also spoke Chinese. I overheard the analyst say, "Okay, we just got this staffing and I'm pretty sure it's because we both speak Mandarin." It was for a cross-border M&A deal.

Other than that, language skills don't come in use because the bank would just use local teams instead. At a higher level, it might help wooing clients. During interviews, if you have two equally qualified candidates and one speaks Mandarin, that's not going to make a difference.

 

It is advisable to learn mandarin because it is fast becoming the second language in the world. A lot of bosses in companies are owned by Chinese. And if you know how to communicate with them, that will give you the edge of getting a job or doing business with them.

 

Mandarin Chines is the easiest language in the world to learn. No grammar,

nothing. Just like pigeon english. Ni hao - you good. Hao jou bu jien =

long time no see... Wo bu hao = i no good.

 
insanehaihai:
Mandarin Chines is the easiest language in the world to learn. No grammar,

nothing. Just like pigeon english. Ni hao - you good. Hao jou bu jien =

long time no see... Wo bu hao = i no good.

Wow. Literally the first time I see someone think that way. And by the way your spelling is off. It should be "Hao jiu bu jian".
 

Mandarin is the official language of the most populous country on Earth: China. That means Mandarin easily ranks as the most widely used language among native speakers. There are also millions of other native Chinese speakers living in Taiwan and around the world, who use the language to conduct their regular business affairs. Now there are many online Chinese learning website, such as Hanbridge Mandarin, Chinesepod, ect. So you see Chinese is more and more popular.

 

I know for jobs in Hong Kong, BBs don't really seem to care too much for strong mandarin skills. That said, it seems that for Shanghai or Beijing, the language component definitely comes to play. And you need to remember you're competing with a lot of returning Chinese students who studied in the States.

 
al888:
I know for jobs in Hong Kong, BBs don't really seem to care too much for strong mandarin skills. That said, it seems that for Shanghai or Beijing, the language component definitely comes to play. And you need to remember you're competing with a lot of returning Chinese students who studied in the States.

Actually, mandarin is becoming more and more of a pre-requisite for both BB banks and PE in Hong Kong, because much of the dealflow is coming from China. I've talked to a number of firms and headhunters on this. Sad reality for us non-speakers.

 
al888:
I know for jobs in Hong Kong, BBs don't really seem to care too much for strong mandarin skills. That said, it seems that for Shanghai or Beijing, the language component definitely comes to play. And you need to remember you're competing with a lot of returning Chinese students who studied in the States.

this is quite misinformed actually.. might be the case couple years back, buts its almost becoming a pre-requisite these days, especially during ft recruiting. Might get by for summer interns, but fresh grad FT is almost a pre-req (although theres always exception if you have other outstanding credentials). This applies to banks across the board in HK, though to a lesser extend at particular banks.

either way, 1 year of chinese is not going to get you anywhere in terms of required fluency, but does show some initative and interest which doesnt hurt. but only do it if you think youll at least partially enjoy it.

 

Exactly -- there's a lot of Chinese kids here or Chinese-Americans who already know Chinese, so at this point you're kinda late in the game and it probably wouldn't provide as much value at this point (unless you have a really strong desire to get into the Asian markets). If anything I'd suggest Arabic.

 

seems like you're scared off already, i would say dont do it because Mandarin is just one thing that you need to know when you go to China, you also need to fit into the culture, which a lot of foreign ppl in China fail to do, and it's also the hardest part, im talking about networking.

although you might find that chinese ppl are easy to approach in china, because they value foreign ppl more, but it doesnt apply when they hire, local workers are more preferable in terms of the pay and other soft skills.

but if you go to a foreign companies in china, it's way more easier for you to reach the management team because you are more trustable than local workers. but true, a lot of american-chinese and international students are going back to china, so you dont seem to have too many advantages.

these are my personal opinions, you can agree or not agree

 

^Disagree with those posts. It sounds like you are non-Chinese, so I'd suggest go for it.

While above posters have the point of unable to become fluent, the main point is to show your interest in this area. You'll also get exposure to the conventions and culture through language study. It's a great sell down the road if you are interested in China.

 

Let's say you are an international student from China looking for Banking jobs in NYC. His English is impeccable and knows everything re finance. But when it comes down to a choice between him and your college frat buddy, who would you choose? You are choosing folks who can share a good laugh or do something stupid/fun together 3am in the morning, not just someone could understand what you're saying.

Banking is the quintessential people business, oddly enough, fit/culture similarity does matter to some extent. For banking in HK/Mainland China, learning language is a good start but it won't give you any edge in recruiting or at work.

 

agree with WGCC

also you're competing with a mabajillion chinese who speak chinese natively, get along with the culture and are possibly more competent than you in finance.

i think to beat that crowd (at their own game) you need to have a super amount of passion or something that motivates you to do banking there. i've been to shanghai. visited and lived out of a 'decent' part of town for 2 weeks. it smelled like shit every morning. i come back home to australia and smell refreshing oak, morning dew, and cleanliness (if that has a smell) in the heart of my city.

if you have: 1. time (which you probably don't keeping a 3.7ish GPA) but have; 2. some motivation (met nice chinese snatch or whatever); and 3. you have to choose a language; I'd still choose Chinese because it's such a massive upcoming player (if not already here) and it's good to live in china if you only live in the really rich places. or where there are no people to spit in front of you.

p.s. i'm taking mandarin too.

 
bullbythehorns:
I'm on track to finish my undergrad in 3 years, but i have a scholarship for 4. I have been contemplating staying my final year and starting to take courses on mandarin, but it seems pretty daunting. Everything i have read says it takes 3-4 dedicated years to speak fluently and 4+ to write (over 350 fuggin characters). Is it really worth it? What level (fluency) of mandarin do top investment banks look for when hiring someone for international jobs? Thoughts? Opinions?

(1) It does take a long ass time to learn, but if you did nothing but study intense Mandarin for the entire year (if your school offers those mandarin all day type semesters - which some do), you might be borderline proficient by the end of the year.... like capable of taking a cab, ordering dinner, etc...

(2) 350 characters? It's 2500-3000 for moderate fluency... 6000 for true fluency.

(3) top investment banks hiring people in the mainland generally won't look at you unless you have native fluency, which is close to impossible to achieve if you started studying after 10 years old.... that said, a lot of HK positions (in IBD at top banks, etc) and also US positions at banks, PE firms and HFs that want to send you to China to check out investments, etc, will value you for having standard fluency or high proficiency... which is definitely possible to achieve.

(4) As someone who has spent a very, very, very long time and a ton of effort learning the language... I'd by weary. If you're in any way not committed (and it sounds like you're not), than I'd give it a pass and study something more useful in your final year. Like accounting, advanced corporate finance, etc...

 
International Pymp:
bullbythehorns:
I'm on track to finish my undergrad in 3 years, but i have a scholarship for 4. I have been contemplating staying my final year and starting to take courses on mandarin, but it seems pretty daunting. Everything i have read says it takes 3-4 dedicated years to speak fluently and 4+ to write (over 350 fuggin characters). Is it really worth it? What level (fluency) of mandarin do top investment banks look for when hiring someone for international jobs? Thoughts? Opinions?

(1) It does take a long ass time to learn, but if you did nothing but study intense Mandarin for the entire year (if your school offers those mandarin all day type semesters - which some do), you might be borderline proficient by the end of the year.... like capable of taking a cab, ordering dinner, etc...

(2) 350 characters? It's 2500-3000 for moderate fluency... 6000 for true fluency.

(3) top investment banks hiring people in the mainland generally won't look at you unless you have native fluency, which is close to impossible to achieve if you started studying after 10 years old.... that said, a lot of HK positions (in IBD at top banks, etc) and also US positions at banks, PE firms and HFs that want to send you to China to check out investments, etc, will value you for having standard fluency or high proficiency... which is definitely possible to achieve.

(4) As someone who has spent a very, very, very long time and a ton of effort learning the language... I'd by weary. If you're in any way not committed (and it sounds like you're not), than I'd give it a pass and study something more useful in your final year. Like accounting, advanced corporate finance, etc...

Do u know which firm in US that will value high fluency mandarin? I am native speaker in English, Mandarin and Cantonese, which pretty much opens me to US, China and Hong Kong, but I wanted to work here in US and are trying to find a firm that will value my language skill.

 

addendum: I've lived in China for close to three years and have taken private lessons / worked around Chinese people all day at a PE firm during that time. I also studied abroad at Peking University and spent all day learning... I studied 8 semesters of Mandarin in college... etc... I am basically fluent now in terms of verbal, but I'm not even close in terms of written (granted i haven't focused on that as much the last few years).

The moral to the story: This shit is fucking hard... it's not like spanish.

 

^lots of firms will, but you'll need other skills as well. In China you can get a job essentially JUST because of those language skills if your english is really native level and so is your Chinese + you've got a decent academic background. The U.S. it will be more complimentary than a primary positive.

 

You said it yourself. A year isn't enough (I studied it myself for a few months). You'll still be lost in conversation with native speakers, unless almost all you do is learn Mandarin over the whole year.

 

If you want to achieve non-native fluency in Chinese within a year, it's definitely possible, but you'll probably have to attend a full time program in China. There are many Korean, Southeast Asian and Central Asian teens who don't speak any Chinese at first, but who do a 1 year pre-college program at elite universities in China before starting a 4 years bachelors program there. Some of them go from no Chinese whatsoever to achieving a perfect or close to perfect score on the HSK (equivalent of TOEFL for the chinese language).

 

I don't see anyone pointing out Singapore. If you are interested in Asia and do not want to be delimited by the language prerequisite, Singapore is the way to go! There are so many Chinese speaking Singaporeans so you can learn to converse with them. At the same time, there are so many expatriates there working and starting up businesses. So check Singapore out.

 

Agreed with HEART. The desired language requirements change every few years. It was Japanese for a while, then Russian. Now you hear Portuguese, Russian, Mandarin, Spanish, or even Hindi. Who knows what it will be by the time you graduate? An African language?

Just a basic level is usually not enough to get you the job. You need to be able to conduct business in that language. Don't spread yourself out so thin. If you are really interested, consider doing internships in Country X. Doesn't help much if you have some proficiency in a language, but don't have any experience in that country. The entire reason they want someone with that language capability is to interact with the local market, who might or might not speak English. Usually inferred, but not written is that they want access to your network in that country. Unless you are just doing sales, you need to have the skill set to do the job (e.g. IB).


http://tradingevents.blogspot.com/

 

[quote=DarkPool]Agreed with HEART. The desired language requirements change every few years. It was Japanese for a while, then Russian. Now you hear Portuguese, Russian, Mandarin, Spanish, or even Hindi. Who knows what it will be by the time you graduate? An African language?

Just a basic level is usually not enough to get you the job. You need to be able to conduct business in that language. Don't spread yourself out so thin. If you are really interested, consider doing internships in Country X. Doesn't help much if you have some proficiency in a language, but don't have any experience in that country. The entire reason they want someone with that language capability is to interact with the local market, who might or might not speak English. Usually inferred, but not written is that they want access to your network in that country. Unless you are just doing sales, you need to have the skill set to do the job (e.g. IB).


http://tradingevents.blogspot.com/[/quote]

The last part of this post is spot on; in order for Chinese to serve any real benefit to you, you need to not only be fluent in it, but also business fluent.

 

Don't do it just to gain superfluous proficiency. It's 100% useless if you're not fluent (by that I mean "near native proficiency"), and if you're not familiar with the culture, your language skills will basically just mean "I can translate stuff."

I'm fluent in Spanish (as in, I am Spanish) and I notice people who study Spanish to learn the language, no matter how good they get, always look and sound like idiots because they aren't familiar with the nuances of the culture or how it's spoken. Think "Mayor Bloomberg" from NYC. Rarely do you get an actual expert.

Similarly, I'm of average proficiency in Mandarin. Let me assure you, there are few situations any employer would pick you over another candidate that isn't a laowai (foreigner). And I, too, sound like a tool when I speak Mando...

in it 2 win it
 

if you're really gung ho about learning chinese, go to china. friend of mine studied mandarin all through high school and was doing well in language classes but nowhere near fluent. spent the summer after senior year by herself in china and became fluent in what seems like no time at all.

 

Don't bother studying Spanish for ibd jobs in the US. Spanish will be in high demand if you are working retail and need to interact with customers who don't speak English... not so for IBD... Plus if you actually get fluent in it you will get sent straight to the LatAm coverage group.

 

Would it be worth going to Germany for 3 months then? I got a scholarship to study there for three months during this Summer (your Winter) but had to turn it down for a job offer, however my employer said three months away next Summer wouldn't be a problem.

 
phil009:
Would it be worth going to Germany for 3 months then? I got a scholarship to study there for three months during this Summer (your Winter) but had to turn it down for a job offer, however my employer said three months away next Summer wouldn't be a problem.
I feel like you're getting a slightly more pessimistic picture from the responses so far than necessary. There are a lot of great opportunities that involve doing business with German companies/lenders/investors and if that's something you might want to interview for at some point, I honestly think learning German and spending a few months in Germany could open that door. I know an American guy who took exactly that path.

Admittedly, I'll agree with the prior posters that, when hunting for an overseas job, even if you learn the language pretty well, you will still be at a disadvantage and will definitely have to lower your sights if you're hoping for something like BB M&A.

 
phil009:
Would it be worth going to Germany for 3 months then? I got a scholarship to study there for three months during this Summer (your Winter) but had to turn it down for a job offer, however my employer said three months away next Summer wouldn't be a problem.
german is entirely useless to learn as a language for finance.

1) most germans speak english 2) there are more than enough germans that are perfectly fluent at english and german in the city to cover all of german banking 3) germany has its own local coverage in frankfurt.

 

mandarin is extremely difficult, so as others have said, only go for it if you know it's what you want to do.

also, in Greater China, there are sooo many well qualified chinese that if you are not able to conduct yourself in mandarin at the level of a native mandarin speaker, your language skills are almost entirely discounted in the job market, and you are effectively left out of that job market.

Go East, Young Man
 

If you do not speak mandarin, sure it wont hurt your chance to apply to IBD in US. But if you do, you double your chance in IBD because you can apply to the same amount of BBs in Asia. More and more deals related to Apac region are done in US so mandarin is definitely helpful.

 

I don't think Mandarin will go out of style anytime soon! Although I will completely agree with what FSC said "Don't do it just to gain superfluous proficiency. It's 100% useless if you're not fluent (by that I mean "near native proficiency"), and if you're not familiar with the culture, your language skills will basically just mean "I can translate stuff."

However, learning another language is fun and beneficial to your personal development, it really does broaden your perspectives and open your mind to another culture. Chinese and English belong to such two different language systems and cultures that knowing both will be a wonderful thing to have. You're not even a freshman yet so might as well give Mandarin a 3-month or a semester trial. You can always give up if you don't like it :)

My formula for success is rise early, work late and strike oil - JP Getty
 

Unless you're on a team that focuses exclusively on China/Taiwan, it won't make a difference on the job. Groups that cover China do most of their pitches in Mandarin/Cantonese so you really have to be a natural to break in. For the rest of South/Southeast Asia, everything was done in English. My experience.

Doesn't hurt to broaden your horizons though.

 
phil009:
Having just finished High School and preparing to enter University in Australia (School ends in November/December here) to study Finance/Economics, I've started looking ahead (perhaps too far ahead) at possible internship opportunities in the field of Investment Banking.

wish i had the same long term outlook when i started uni. it is your attitude, not the number of languages you speak, that will ultimately determine how successful you will be. so far you're on the right track.

 

Continue

China’s famously ceremonial business culture presents another set of challenges, from knowing where to sit at a banquet to maintaining control after the 18th glass of baijiu, a liquor distilled from sorghum that goes down like lighter fluid and is a key ritual in many deals. In Mr. China: A Memoir, Tim Clissold describes touring China with investor Jack Perkowski. After days of stress, greasy banquet food, and stabbing hangovers, Clissold eventually suffered a heart attack. Dinner often gives way to karaoke. Alistair Nicholas, president of AC Capital Strategic Consulting and author of Off the Record, a blog about doing business in China, argues that foreigners shouldn’t feel obligated to get tanked and belt out Bon Jovi: “it is precisely when you ignore your own culture and principles that you risk losing face or risk your Chinese partners thinking you are so weak you can easily be taken advantage of.”

Succeeding in China often means getting ripped off. Rovio Entertainment, the creator of Angry Birds, ended up negotiating with the makers of pirated plush toys, giving them in-game ad space in exchange for licensing fees. Pilfering isn’t limited to the tech sector, either. Last year, Kro’s Nest, a Beijing pizzeria known for its American-style pies, rolled out a 28-inch pizza called the Monster. “In the last couple months,” says Martin Handley, the chain’s vice president of operations, “I have seen six or eight other places offering the 28-inch pizza.”

The key for any newcomer is to offer a unique skill. For Perkowski, the Pittsburgh-born investor who famously left Wall Street for China in the 1990s, that skill was raising ungodly amounts of cash, to the tune of $400 million. “I was able to do what I did because capital was short,” he says. Nowadays, with capital flowing into China from American and Chinese investors alike, a newcomer’s edge will more likely be technical, like knowing how to engineer a semiconductor or design a building.

Mandarin can count as a skill, but the bar is high. After studying the language for four years in college, a bright American will still talk like a precocious eight-year-old, whereas Chinese students start learning English as eight-year-olds. There are 5,000 times as many Chinese primary and secondary school students studying English as American students learning Mandarin, according to the American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages. One possible reason: The time it takes to achieve Mandarin fluency could be spent learning a profession—law, say, or molecular robotics—that would serve as a better pretext for living in China than knowing the language.

Even if you have a marketable skill and speak perfect Mandarin, nothing is guaranteed. Lurie first moved to China in 2003 to study Mandarin, returned in 2005 after getting his MBA at the University of California at Los Angeles, and signed up with a top China private equity firm. In 2008 he was asked to leave and was replaced with a native Chinese. It was a matter of supply and demand, he says: “There was a time people had to be convinced to invest in China. Now people are lining up to give them money. So my value decreased.”

What advice would Lurie give recent college grads considering a move to China for work? “Don’t,” he says. “Don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t.”

The article basically contradict this 1/2 positive/upbeat post about immigrating to China and learning Mandarin http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/will-studying-mandarin-get-me-a-job…

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

Thanks for posting the entire article and not just a link to it.

“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Schopenhauer
 

Well, before you even consider working in china, realize that entry level analyst pay is around 30-50k USD. You MIGHT have better hours though. MIGHT

The PE firm I worked for only hired local Shanghainese people. The only reason I interned there as a non-local was because I worked for another branch of the firm and switched over. I was also told by BBs and elite boutiques in china that they wanted native chinese for their summer analyst class.

The culture is extremely important. The drinking isn't the tough part, but chinese culture can be uptight about a lot of things. There is a certain way you have to greet people, even how you hand over a business card.

China is great for an internship and studying abroad. not for a ft career.

Hong Kong is a much better bet i you are interested in asia.

 

Your friends who tried to start a business probably just didn't have nearly enough money needed for a startup there. That sounds like a good idea on their part to bring our beers to them but they sounded like they just didn't have enough experience or capital.

 

Thanks for posting this article, and for the reference to my post.

I agree that for domestic China to China matters, working within the domestic Chinese framework- any company should most definitely stick with using locals. The biggest challenge for Chinese people, where I think there is the strongest niche for a foreigner, is in the cross-border relationship.

It’s a trust factor which comes not just from cultural-esque differences, but more so from the opacity and bureaucracy and lack of openness in the Chinese economy, inherent within the Chinese system. Until there is 1) a strong, dependable, and transparent legal system built on laws that are clear and equally enforced, and 2) the rampant corruption is effectively addressed (these go hand in hand), there will always be a trust gap. No matter how well the mainland Chinese guy speaks English, the exec back home will never fully trust him- he will on some level always see the Chinese guy as a ‘shady Communist trying to rob him at every opportunity’. Not every Chinese is a crook, but if it turns out to be the case, the foreign company has effectively no recourse if a Chinese tries to screw him, as in the case of Sinovel.

This is why for the time being there will still be a need for the white kids- to be the eyes and ears for headquarters back in Cleveland. I’m not saying that the foreigners are incorruptible saints (quite the contrary in the Sinovel case), but that there is a stronger level of implicit trust from the beginning. Obviously more language skills are better, but the more important skill set is the ability to understand and work with both sides. Americans (and Europeans, Aussies, etc.) are better at this because we are better able to adapt and think critically- this comes from our education system. The Chinese education system is purposely not set up to foster independent thought. If it were, there wouldn't be a Communist government anymore.

Also, just because a local Chinese has studied English from 8 years old doesn’t guarantee they will be good. I’ve had a number of higher level IB guys (albeit in HK) tell me that they wish they had a greater number of foreign junior-level people, because they were fed up with the crappy pidgin English that the Chinese kids wrote.

One the flip side of things, as more and more Chinese companies begin to expand outside China, there will be a need for these people that work both sides, not based in China, but in the US and elsewhere. Just like how the CEO from Cleveland would have a hard time in Shijiazhuang, the Chinese boss will also have a difficult time in Cleveland.

Bottom line, I think in the ‘learning Mandarin’ debates language capability is overemphasized in lieu of cultural understanding and the flexibility to work with both sides.

Finally, to the point about the “crackdown” in Beijing- the requirement to carry your passport/residence permit has always been there, supposedly Beijing will actually enforce the rule for the next few weeks. I’ll save my comments about that for another day.

 
olafenizer:
Obviously more language skills are better, but the more important skill set is the ability to understand and work with both sides. Americans (and Europeans, Aussies, etc.) are better at this because we are better able to adapt and think critically- this comes from our education system. The Chinese education system is purposely not set up to foster independent thought. If it were, there wouldn't be a Communist government anymore.

Well said! Also re the requirement for foreigners to register with the government and carry proof of status at all times...the U.S has the exact same requirement. I find it amusing to compare the current Chinese crackdown with Arizona SB 1070. It is probably a lot easier to do racial profiling in China thou. Where is the Chinese ACLU when you need it (CCLU?)

Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.
 
olafenizer:
Not every Chinese is a crook, but if it turns out to be the case, the foreign company has effectively no recourse if a Chinese tries to screw him, as in the case of Sinovel.

You may not have much recourse in China, especially against such a politically connected adversary as Sinovel, you can still fight them outside their home turfs. Sinovel needs to expand abroad in order to survive the wind turbine deflation and margin squeeze in China. And that is where you get them, by pressing for lawsuits and sanctions against them in whichever market they try to enter.

The Chinese market is big enough that many companies do not care for international expansion. This is changing thou as fierce domestic competition forces more and more of them to look abroad, where they actually have to be held accountable for their actions at home.

Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.
 

If we really want to be competitive, we need to link educational visas with work requirements. As in, if the Chinese want to learn at Wharton, they have to work off their debt to America afterward. Don't care whether it's a public or private school - don't let them in if they're not going to work here afterward, and don't let them in unless their education qualifies them to do something we need them to do. They should be economic mercenaries, not exchange students. We just don't need to empower China any more.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
 
petergibbons:
If we really want to be competitive, we need to link educational visas with work requirements. As in, if the Chinese want to learn at Wharton, they have to work off their debt to America afterward. Don't care whether it's a public or private school - don't let them in if they're not going to work here afterward, and don't let them in unless their education qualifies them to do something we need them to do. They should be economic mercenaries, not exchange students. We just don't need to empower China any more.

Your post is completely wrong. You are obviously a U.S citizen and have no understanding/knowledge of the hassles that the U.S government created for international students. Many international/bright students would prefer to work in the U.S indefinitely or ideally get some solid 2/3 years of work experience in the U.S or for U.S companies abroad when they graduate. However, they are not allowed to do real , substantial internships, they are given only 3 months to get a job or depart the U.S after graduation. Pitfall? They can't get a job without a work permit and the work permit might takes up to three months. So in the end, the system is set to get rid of international students. It's also hard to get a job even with the permit, because some organizations don't want to deal with the Visa issue once the OPT/12 moths practical training is expired.

Don't blame the students because the US economy can't use their brains. It's your government that makes the law.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

You can only learn a language if you constantly use it. The minor (aka classroom learning) won't do much in the real world. This goes for any language.

That being said, putting it on your resume can make you stand out. It could also help with HK or Singapore applications - it shows you're interested in the Asian culture.

 

If minor comes with 'conversational' (at least) in a resume, I would hope huge. I am working towards 'conversational' though do not have a minor. I think the latter is more important

"I am not sure who this 'Anonymous' person is - one thing is for certain, they have been one hell of a prolific writer" - Anonymous
 

I minored in Chinese and can only recall it being brought up in 1 interview. If I could go back, I would minor in something like Econ. That being said, I did write "proficient in Mandarin" on my resume and had several summers in Shanghai, both of which hold much more weight than a simple minor. I'd recommend getting over to China for a semester or so.

Plus, learning all about the life of Zhang Tian Ming or other historical figures in China's past (from the culture classes, etc.) wasn't all too interesting and provided 0 benefit in pursuing any career related to finance.

 

Personally I don't think Mandarin will be useful in finance at all. Unless you are doing work with China/Chinese companies (and even then you probably still don't need it).

On the other hand, learning a language is definitely a useful skill to have. However, if you aren't that committed to it and it's killing your GPA, I'd personally drop it.

 

Took Mandarin for many years and found it pretty easy. I would say don't bother, if you are doing investment banking in NYC it wouldn't bring enough benefit that it would make having a lower GPA worth it. Go with the better GPA. Every now and then there is positions that require or prefer a mandarin speaker, but its not the norm and usually unnecessary.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

Unfortunately, I think the better option is to quit Mandarin for now. If you love learning it (as I did and do), you're going to hate having to quit and seeing your skills decline so quickly. But you must remember that it's for the better. It's completely useless here in NYC, and in HK and mainland China it's cheaper to hire a local who speaks it than almost any foreigner. Put simply, your Mandarin skills won't help you with a job in finance unless you speak it at the native level.

My advice is that you put it off for now, and wait to take up Mandarin again later on. It's important that you have ample time to study and practice the language, and if you're starting a career then it's a daunting endeavor.

in it 2 win it
 

Probably not worthwhile if you're going to be working here in the US. The exception to this is if you're going to have frequent/direct contact with Chinese corporates/clients, in which impression on behalf of your company is pertinent.

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience, Outside the gilded cage - Limelight (1981)
 

Honestly you're better off learning Spanish. You will get absolutely no respect from Chinese natives no matter how hard you try to learn the language. From my experience, Mexicans & South Americans definitely appreciate people taking the time to learn their language and you're basically a semi-honorary if you can manage to reach conversational.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." --Abraham Lincoln
 

I am unsure if learning Mandarin will prove to be worthwhile in the future. You can always go for the Spanish/Portugues combination, which you will be able to master much easier than Mandarin, and then later work in Latin America or with Latin American clients.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 

I would only learn Mandarin if you want to do business in China or live in China at some point. Chinese is a tough enough language that, in my opinion, if you're really looking to master it and become fluent, you're going to have to spend some chunk of time in China. If thats what you want, then go for it, if you're just doing it because you think it will be useful, then I would drop it.

 
KingCudi:

I am currently an undergrad and right now most interested in investment banking (although I still have interest in other areas). I have been taking Mandarin at my university and am scheduled to take it for the next semester.

However for those who aren't aware Mandarin is very difficult and takes a lot of work to master. Last semester it was by far my most difficult class and sunk my GPA the most, I predict it to be a fairly similar situation this semester.

The more I think about it and the more informational interviews I have it seems like there isn't really any practical use of mandarin in investment banking, let alone any other aspects of finance.

Should I continue to struggle with mandarin, or drop it and pick up an extra finance class? Are there any uses of Mandarin within investment banking (I'm currently in NYC)? I would like to work with Mandarin but I'm not exactly set on it, my only qualms about dropping would be the time I've wasted trying to learn it. Does anyone think Mandarin would be valuable in a finance area outside of investment banking?

Continue to struggle with Mandarin. When you graduate from undergrad, no one is going to care or give you any credit for taking some extra finance classes. On the other hand, those Mandarin classes will stick with you forever (provided you keep it up). You can put down Mandarin under languages on your resume and it can be an interesting talking point both professionally and outside of work.

I once had an interview with a managing director at a bulge bracket firm. He noticed Chinese on my resume and told me that his 4 year old daughter was learning Mandarin from their Chinese nanny. We spent the first 5 to 10 minutes of the interview talking about learning Chinese, and places to travel in China, etc. After that, the rest of the interview was a breeze.

I studied four years worth of Mandarin in undergrad and did a few intensive courses over the summer. I actually had a background in Asian languages, so my reading was always good (slower than an educated native speaker, but good enough that I could read almost anything and understand everything 100%) and my writing is decent (no problems whatsoever with writing emails in Chinese and other informal Chinese, good enough to write academic or professional Chinese but would need a native speaker to proofread first).

If you keep up with the Chinese, my suggestion would be to find a Chinese-speaking girlfriend from mainland China or Taiwan (not an American girlfriend of Chinese origin, since their English is usually better than their Chinese, and in some cases your Chinese might even be better than theirs. An exception would be if she came to the US post-adolescence and attended elementary and middle school in China/Taiwan) Avoid girls from Hong Kong and Macau, since they speak Cantonese in those regions and their Mandarin is often (but not always) heavily accented and thus not the ideal accent that you should be trying to emulate.

Enjoy the journey and don't focus too much on the destination. Good luck.

  • Deo et Patriae
 
Vagabond85:

Look, I realize it's in vogue to go off and learn mandarin but keep a few things in mind: 1. like any language, if you can't do business in it (and I mean walk through financial ratios in it etc), then it's not that beneficial to your career. 2. careers focused on China for westerners are largely dead- look at the change in composition of the financial sector in Hong Kong over the past 15 years (almost no new westerners entering, those that are a left are old hands). It's not about becoming "fluent", it's a cultural thing. China is very xenophobic in that regard. 3. my opinion is using vast amount of time and effort for something to be a talking point is a waste of time (you already have it as a talking point?). Dating a girl just to improve your language (unless you're dead set on living there) is insane. If you truly love sturying it and have other personal reasons to learn then fine but it's not the best way to propel your career.

  1. like any language, if you can't do business in it (and I mean walk through financial ratios in it etc), then it's not that beneficial to your career.

I disagree with you here. Even if you can't do business in the language, you would be surprised what a difference it makes in a Chinese person's perception of you when you can actually say ni hao properly without totally butchering the pronunciation and then go on to have an intelligent conversation with them in their native language.

  1. careers focused on China for westerners are largely dead- look at the change in composition of the financial sector in Hong Kong over the past 15 years (almost no new westerners entering, those that are a left are old hands). It's not about becoming "fluent", it's a cultural thing. China is very xenophobic in that regard.

The golden age of British and American expats living and working in Hong Kong's financial services sector are largely behind us. With that said, however, I would not describe it as "dead." There are plenty of non-Chinese finance professionals in their late twenties and early thirties who work in Hong Kong (some of them don't even speak a lick of Chinese). I do concede, however, that the competition for these positions has increased dramatically.

  1. my opinion is using vast amount of time and effort for something to be a talking point is a waste of time (you already have it as a talking point?). Dating a girl just to improve your language (unless you're dead set on living there) is insane. If you truly love sturying it and have other personal reasons to learn then fine but it's not the best way to propel your career.

It's not just a "talking point." There many benefits to learning Chinese and any foreign language for that matter. Don't be too short-sighted in your thinking.

Let me share a story with you. One of my father's close friends (college roommate, in fact!) studied Japanese in college. This was back in the days when Japan was emerging as an economic growth miracle (kind of like China today). My father and some other friends thought this guy was nuts, but he ignored them and studied diligently for four years, including a year abroad in Japan (very uncommon in those days, especially when you compare it to today). After college, my father's friend worked in New York at a large company for a number of years.

One day, the company decided that it was going to expand its business in Japan and open an office in Tokyo Because of his background, my father's friend was short-listed and ultimately sent over to Japan - beating out a number of candidates (some of them more senior than him). He eventually spent almost two decades in Japan, growing the Japanese office from a team of only five (one expat, four local staff) to eventually over 3,000-plus employees.

I don't know how much he was compensated during his tenure, but since he became president of the Japan office and an executive director of the US Parent Company (so he received a significant amount of compensation in equity), he must have been doing well for himself. Also, he was an expat, so his housing expenses, children's education expenses (K-12), membership at exclusive expat clubs, and twice-a-year round-trip first class airfare back home to the US + a chauffeur driven car were ALL paid for by the firm.

Such extravagant expat packages are largely extinct nowadays, but they still exist. I was once invited to the home of the president of a major bulge bracket (GS/MS/JPM) investment bank's Asia (Hong Kong) Office. He lived in a palatial mansion (rented by the bank) in Deep Water Bay. His kids attended HKD 180,000+ tuition international schools (approximately $23,000) - paid for by the bank.

Anyways, returning to the main point. Don't be too short-sighted in your thinking when it comes to learning languages (or pursuing any other endeavor, for that matter) because you never know what the future has in store for you.

 

Inspiring story. I am learning Chinese as well, but it's because of my original background that I learn, but I really like it though. Now I am thinking of whether to pursue Spanish or Korean.

 

learn it for the ridiculous amount of ass you'll earn when you visit china. Chinese gold diggers will always want to speak english with you, but once you can actually communicate and level with the rest of the babes, they'll be all over you. You'll bring the best of both worlds. An expat with an appreciation of Chinese culture.

Many of these chicks are freaks too because chinese men aren't sexually adventurous so they're really curious about the popular myths about expats.

OH but these chicks don't shave their pubes. Even the PhD hotties believe shaving their pubes makes it grow back thicker or something. If you make one a fuck buddy they might start....

 

Chinese Mandarin is not only a marketable skill, but a social skill for me on daily life in China. I learn Chinese not because I must use it in my work,but I like it deeply. For example, Chinese cultures are so broad and profound that make me interested in it.

I learn Chinese online via skype at echineselearning. They have lots of native, professionally trained and experienced Chinese teachers, and the choosing of time and place is up to you.

 

Mandarin is my second language and I am extremely poor at it. Yet, I share the opinion that it would be a valuable language to have because it opens up opportunities especially in the Chinese markets and allows you to interact on a more personal level with the locals.

 

Yes, I think learning Chinese is very useful, here are the benefits of learning Chinese:

1: Learning Chinese Mandarin is a great way to take advantage of Chinese economic opportunities.

China is currently the fastest growing economy in the world and is already the biggest global market to break into. China's economy currently stands the second largest in the world and continues to grow at an amazing pace. For teenagers, speak Chinese mandarin is a competitive advantage in the future. Learn Chinese Course for Teenagers is your best choice.

2: Learning Chinese Mandarin is becoming an essential skill for business people.

Any business in the twenty-first century will be trying to do business in China and in doing so will required Chinese speakers to negotiate agreements and trade deals. A bold statement perhaps, but with many employers and companies across the globe seeking to establish relationships and develop key business links with China, Mandarin Chinese has indeed become a very valuable and highly sought after skill in today's world. It is high time for those aspiring to learn Business Chinese today for a bright tomorrow!

 
vossj:
Hey Guys, I was wondering whether or not It is a marketable skill to know Chinese Mandarin? I am majoring in Economics, minoring in Business Fundamentals, and taking 4 semesters of Chinese Madarin. Eventually, I would like to do business in China, I see much growth potential in China. Are there any careers straight out of college which would make practical use of this language skill? Just to show you where my thoughts are: A big ambitions of mine is to become a venture capitalist in China one day. What are your general thoughts about learning the Chinese Language, and how useful will this language be to my future career options?

I can see that this was posted a few years ago, just wonder how is your level of mandarin, and did you become a venture capitalist in China? That is a booming trade in China nowadays, as I can see...

 

Venture Capitalist? What a promising job you have planned for! I believe you would find great potential in China for this business as economy here is booming, and many start-ups or high-tech innovation teams are seeking for VC to fast grow into big players. Recently we found several TV channels show up special programs featuring Venture Capitalists (actually big Chinese companies) interviewing candidates with innovative business projects who are seeking investment funds to power up their plans - and this has become a form of "public entertainment" on the TV! This is a big trend here, and it's a good opportunity to join in. Being able speak Chinese is definitely a great plus!

 

where do i begin to shit on your dreams

first, you'll end up sounding just like any other brain-damaged Westerner trying to speak mandarin looked at with a mix of pity and bemusement while you try to communicate

second, doing shit like this to get an MBA is seriously toolish. just lie about being able to speak mandarin and hope they don't bust your slimy ass out on it

third, you are slowly and surely going to branch out and start an HF hmmm? yes yes yes the path to billionairehood is slow and sure. i am glad to see you are so realistic bout it

 
melvvvar:
where do i begin to shit on your dreams

first, you'll end up sounding just like any other brain-damaged Westerner trying to speak mandarin looked at with a mix of pity and bemusement while you try to communicate

second, doing shit like this to get an MBA is seriously toolish. just lie about being able to speak mandarin and hope they don't bust your slimy ass out on it

third, you are slowly and surely going to branch out and start an HF hmmm? yes yes yes the path to billionairehood is slow and sure. i am glad to see you are so realistic bout it

Repped.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

No matter how hard you study, you'll never get hired in China. If you're really serious about mastering the language, I strongly recommend you take a gap year or two and go live in that country for 2-3 years with absolutely no interaction with English speakers. My friend took a gap year after highschool and went to Taiwan, eventually doing a 2 year gig as a local English teacher. He knew nobody, spoke no Chinese, but man now he speaks it like a BOSS

Array
 

The only people I know who were able to effectively learn a difficult foreign language were people who lived in almost almost complete isolation from western society. For instance in the oil fields of Russia in the 90's, in a deserted military camp, etc. You really have to be FORCED to do it. Classes at even the university level, especially for difficult languages, will almost never do it. Even "immersion" programs are difficult as most of the kids end up speaking english and all the foreign students want to speak english to learn it.

You have to learn where your strengths lie. China has 1.2+ billion people who would love to take a high paying job in finance. They have no need for more American labor, especially from foreigners who can't speak the language and don't know the culture.

 

I am a Chinese in the United States and I was a Chinese tutor at school, knowing how hard folks were learning Chinese. I am unsure that mastering another language would bring in what type of opportunities. But if you wanna get hired in Shanghai, you probably don't have to get your ass of to learn too much Chinese. Because most of your co-workers would have experience of oversea studying. But if you wanna know how to conduct some simple conversation, I definetely would like to help you.

 
cocopig:
I am a Chinese in the United States and I was a Chinese tutor at school, knowing how hard folks were learning Chinese. I am unsure that mastering another language would bring in what type of opportunities. But if you wanna get hired in Shanghai, you probably don't have to get your ass of to learn too much Chinese. Because most of your co-workers would have experience of oversea studying. But if you wanna know how to conduct some simple conversation, I definetely would like to help you.

This is half true. Shanghai chinese requirements are lower but it really depends on what firm you work for. American firms need things done in english for the partners but deals are still negotiated in chinese and you need chinese to do all of the research.

without language skills you won't be able to dig deep into industries, companies, or deals, and you'll literally just be 'that white guy' in the firm.

 

don't just order in seamless, actually go to the Chinese restaurant and order in mandarin. maybe even strike up a casual conversation with the cashier. eat there breakfast lunch and dinner and you could be fluent in 3-4 months, maybe 6+ if you went to a nontarget.

 

I would say it's much longer than you wished. My students spent many years but weren't as fluent as we expected. But that's a really good way to interact with Chinese folks.

swagon:
don't just order in seamless, actually go to the Chinese restaurant and order in mandarin. maybe even strike up a casual conversation with the cashier. eat there breakfast lunch and dinner and you could be fluent in 3-4 months, maybe 6+ if you went to a nontarget.
 
blahwoop:
times have changed. they speak neither mandarin or cantonese. they all speak FOOKINESE. no, i'm not joking. i'm dead serious.

Mandarin is the official language. Who the f*** speaks Fookinese (福建话)? The most powerful cities in China are Shanghai and Beijing? Fookinese? I can understand why "Standard Chinese" (普通话) might be more prevalent. But Fookiness? T.T

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 

to be able to speak fluently to the point where natives dont look at you and just laugh..probably 1 year of nonstop conversations in Mandarin

to be able to read any newspaper fluently and understand the cultural/slang/humors- probably 2 years on top of it

to be able to write...good luck, a lot chinese natives can't even write every word. I forgot how to write long time ago even though I live in Asia for more than a decade. To be able to type mandarin on computer though, is much easier...

 

I'm interested in keeping up my Chinese while not living on the mainland anymore, so I think an online platform - if it actually worked, and had functionality for advanced students - could be very useful. Most of those that I've seen don't have advanced enough settings. Also, a finance specific setting for advanced students that kept up business/finance vocabulary could be exceptional.

 

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"I am not sure who this 'Anonymous' person is - one thing is for certain, they have been one hell of a prolific writer" - Anonymous
 

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Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

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Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

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