NSFW Episode 16: Libya, Wisconsin, Wealth Gap

 
Best Response

Excellent episode guys--a good deal longer than usual, I see!

Reagan is definitely smiling and laughing seeing all the trouble Qaddafi is in. He can't hold on forever, and I don't think he's content to just live out the rest of his life in luxury. They'll probably have to besiege his palace and storm his private bedchamber before he cries uncle.

I got into a titanic online fight with one of my friends who's becoming a teacher over the Wisconsin situation. It was glorious. She tried to poke holes in the "only working nine months out of the year" argument by saying that last day of school is end of June, training starts August 1, so it only really amounts to one month off. That may be true for NYC, but the rest of the country?

That thread on the wealth gap--wow. After the first page as soon as I saw ANT and monkeysama--pass the popcorn, this is gonna be fun!

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
 

Teachers don't need to be unionized. They might need some added protections because of the political element with their jobs, but if you are educated and create value, the union does nothing but hold you back. My dad is a teamster and he says the only people who use union help are fuck ups. Yeah, raises and stuff are nice, but public unions are in an unfair advantage.

And yeah, I am a horrible person because I think people who work for the money should keep it. Anyone who works most likely agrees or at some level understands this. Fuck anyone else.

 
ANT:
Teachers don't need to be unionized. They might need some added protections because of the political element with their jobs, but if you are educated and create value, the union does nothing but hold you back. My dad is a teamster and he says the only people who use union help are fuck ups. Yeah, raises and stuff are nice, but public unions are in an unfair advantage.

And yeah, I am a horrible person because I think people who work for the money should keep it. Anyone who works most likely agrees or at some level understands this. Fuck anyone else.

Jeez man, you gotta calm down.

It's just politics - don't take it personally.

 

Best episode yet guys...some points:

1) On the Wisonsin thing: As a fellow libertarian this is a tough issue...who do i dislike more unions or the government? For me, I dislike government more and I see no reason why the government should have some special rights (ie the right to bar collective bargaining) that private businesses do not have. At the end of the day I see this as a zero sum game between teachers and government stooges...I'd rather the teachers win. It is notable that FDR was a believer that public unions shouldnt exist...its because this idea that public unions are somehow different is a liberal concept that values the power of the state over everything including the "common man".

2) On Eddie's point about the dissapearing middle class: In NYC the middle class is already long gone. Rents are just way to high for anyone other then "white collar" professionals or young, college-educated single people to live in Manhattan or even parts of Brooklyn. Because of this the cultural gap is huge...it is amazing that when I get into a cab not only can I not have a normal conversation with the cab driver, I have no idea about his lifestyle, where he lives, how he lives, what books he reads, what sports he likes, what TV shows he watches, etc. If I was to be dropped into his living room it would be as strange to me as getting dropped into a foreign country, and this is regardless of his race. I dont know what the implications of this cultural divide are but I think on the coasts it is now a fact of life. Fortunately, I am a man of the people so i gain exposure to this segment of society by going to strip clubs from time to time and having great conversations with strippers who I usually fall in love with.

3) On Midas' take on the same subject: I see no evidence that this generation is less entrepreneurial then previous ones, however due to the constant inflating and deflating of bubbles this inventiveness has been funneled toward inefficient parts of the economy. If I had a nickel for every one of my friends who got into some stupid real estate flipping business in 2007 or worked for a shlock-house brokerage firm during the internet bubble or something similar I'd have at lest enough money to play a few arcade games (if arcades still existed). This is the problem with the Fed constantly trying to inflate bubbles or keep them from popping..they fuck up the normal price signals that come from a free market and push investment toward wacky places. Many of this generation's great entrepreneurs blew years of their lives building McMansions in the Nevada dessert and the like...thank Greenspan and The Ben Bernank.

 
Bondarb:
Best episode yet guys...some points:

1) On the Wisonsin thing: As a fellow libertarian this is a tough issue...who do i dislike more unions or the government? For me, I dislike government more and I see no reason why the government should have some special rights (ie the right to bar collective bargaining) that private businesses do not have. At the end of the day I see this as a zero sum game between teachers and government stooges...I'd rather the teachers win. It is notable that FDR was a believer that public unions shouldnt exist...its because this idea that public unions are somehow different is a liberal concept that values the power of the state over everything including the "common man".

2) On Eddie's point about the dissapearing middle class: In NYC the middle class is already long gone. Rents are just way to high for anyone other then "white collar" professionals or young, college-educated single people to live in Manhattan or even parts of Brooklyn. Because of this the cultural gap is huge...it is amazing that when I get into a cab not only can I not have a normal conversation with the cab driver, I have no idea about his lifestyle, where he lives, how he lives, what books he reads, what sports he likes, what TV shows he watches, etc. If I was to be dropped into his living room it would be as strange to me as getting dropped into a foreign country, and this is regardless of his race. I dont know what the implications of this cultural divide are but I think on the coasts it is now a fact of life. Fortunately, I am a man of the people so i gain exposure to this segment of society by going to strip clubs from time to time and having great conversations with strippers who I usually fall in love with.

3) On Midas' take on the same subject: I see no evidence that this generation is less entrepreneurial then previous ones, however due to the constant inflating and deflating of bubbles this inventiveness has been funneled toward inefficient parts of the economy. If I had a nickel for every one of my friends who got into some stupid real estate flipping business in 2007 or worked for a shlock-house brokerage firm during the internet bubble or something similar I'd have at lest enough money to play a few arcade games (if arcades still existed). This is the problem with the Fed constantly trying to inflate bubbles or keep them from popping..they fuck up the normal price signals that come from a free market and push investment toward wacky places. Many of this generation's great entrepreneurs blew years of their lives building McMansions in the Nevada dessert and the like...thank Greenspan and The Ben Bernank.

Much obliged, sir...shame we don't have time to dissect during the program but let me chime in with some thoughts on your comments.

1) As you said, it's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils...or as old school Brooklynese would have it: head or gut. That having been said I am seeing some attempts on the part of state governments nationwide to correct their mistakes. Albeit, the corrections are mainly a cowardly way of keeping crony asses in leather state capital chairs. Unions on the other hand will always be right, always be holier than thou and always looking to bully their point home. Hell, look at what they're doing in the NBA, NFL and MLB. Real unemployment's up around 20% and these jackasses want to leave us with the NHL and MLS?! I don't condone governments abusing power, but if they have to abuse...let them abuse unions.

2).I'm living proof. Coming up as a kid in New York we called Manhattan The City just think about that...summertime at the Promenade you can practically spit at the Twins and its a world away. Mind you, this was at a time when a ton of local guys worked on Wall Street and we actually had inroads to that world.The New York I remember was a Caste System style society and it's only worse today. Every time I go back I'm determined to stay gone. Once the New Yorkers left it became something different...now it feels more like L.A. or Miami. Glossy and phony. Wish I could say it's different elsewhere.

3) You hit the nail on the head. Only so much we can squeeze into 10-15 minutes. When was the last time you dealt with an honest and skilled electrician? When was the last time you went into a decent priced restaurant with good food and solid service? When was the last time you dealt with a live person at the end of the line and not some fucking Gupta calling herself "Maggie"? We confuse being entrepreneurial with building a new fucking Iphone app. Real brick and mortar businesses, the likes of which reality is still heavily dependent upon are a faint glimmer in the minds of younger generations today. The oligarchical quasi fascist eternally M&Aing business landscape we have is definitely a factor, if not the root problem. So while 97 year old quadriplegics like GM and Anheuser-Busch get comped for sucking, I am wandering the desert looking for a decent car and a non-piss tasting beer to pour in my gut. More and more people with ideas are taking them elsewhere...

As you say...thank Greenspan and The Ben Bernank...

amongst others...

 

This post was mostly childish.

Governments should not have the right to stop collective bargaining. It's not the Wisconsin public sector's fault that the govt overpromised on benefits or managed their finances poorly. Idiot Wisconsin governor is trying to cover up his state's mistakes by blaming unions. Simple words for what the govt is trying to get away with: breach of contract. You know, contracts...the things that run WallStreet.

The phone prank was priceless. Revealed Walker to be an arrogant scheming punk.

 

Unions don't cost anything, it is the pensions the force, the dues they collect, the calcified employment they protect.

Dazed, your posts was pretty weak. If you're going to take a stand like that you better bring more than a grade school retort.

 
dazedmonk:
Governments should not have the right to stop collective bargaining.
correct
dazedmonk:
It's not the Wisconsin public sector's fault that the govt overpromised on benefits or managed their finances poorly.
No it's not: the unions have taken advantage of their power over the last generation. And don't get me wrong, I've belonged to unions. First year of college, I worked as a union guy at Costco, and the union and the company worked together to make sure that EVERYONE came out ahead. So, I'm quite shocked to see how unever the relationship is here. In a way, it is the government's fault: they should have done this much sooner, and the cuts wouldn't seem so severe by comparison.
ANT:
Unions don't cost anything, it is the pensions the force, the dues they collect, the calcified employment they protect.
EXACTLY.

They went too far to think they can just outlaw unions: not going to happen. But what they're really doing is taking the same hard line, the 'in it to win it', 'give no ground' approach that unions have for a long time. Many union people fail to realize that if they choke the life out of their company then they won't be getting a pay reduction, they will be getting nothing.

As far as contracts being 'broken', no, they are being renegotiated. This IS standard on Wall Street. Things change, you have to change as well.....or get eaten alive.

Get busy living
 

Great episode. The back and forth discussion is really improving. I was going to ask Eddie what happened to Mount Gay but you already answered that, thanks.

The wealth gap topic was really covered in both of those threads last week (700+ comments!).

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
 

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