The Allure of Africa: Why I am Passionate about Opportunities on the Continent

When I graduated from college in 2007, I moved to Beijing hoping to find exciting opportunities within emerging markets. In my off-hand discussions with American expatriates, family friends, and my own observations, I got the feeling I had arrived in China 20 years too late. The major cities such as Beijing and Shanghai were already booming, and while there were opportunities in the lesser-known cities in the interior of China, I didn’t have the language skills or stomach to move there.

When I returned to the United States, I started looking for job opportunities in frontier markets like Africa. As a naive 23-year old, I assumed there were only three sectors that I could work in: commodities, teaching English, or international development. Since I knew nothing about extractive industries and had already taught English in China, I targeted not-for-profit organizations. I interned for the Clinton Foundation in Boston for a year and was subsequently offered employment working in West Africa.

Managing a $10 million HIV medication donation in 10 West African countries, all the ignorant misconceptions I had about the continent quickly evaporated. My Internet connection in Senegal was better than in my former office in South Boston. Our partners at government organizations were highly educated and had left high paying jobs in Europe and the US because they genuinely wanted to improve health outcomes in their countries. And finally, there were real, exciting business opportunities. Ecobank, a pan-African bank with over 10 million customers and $20 billion in assets under management (AUM), was building a new modern international headquarters by the beach in Togo while I was living there.

To build on my newfound interest in African business, I decided to do a Masters in Business Administration in London. I chose London because it is an international city with strong links to the African continent. For example, two of the largest private equity funds investing in Africa, each with over $1 billion AUM, are based in the city. The London Stock Exchange, which represents over $60 billion in market capitalization for African companies, has the second largest exposure to the African market after the Johannesburg Stock Exchange.

By getting involved in the Africa Club at London Business School and organizing the 2015 Africa Business Summit, I have had to opportunity to engage with some of Africa’s top business leaders and investors. In preparation for this year’s event I have spoken to Arnold Ekpe, Chairman of Atlas Mara, Robbie Brozin, one of the Founders of Nandos, along with a number of other investors and entrepreneurs on the continent. The excitement about investing in Africa is about more than strong macro-economic conditions and demographics. It’s about a new generation of investors and entrepreneurs who see challenges as opportunities, and who are generating the returns and growth figures to justify their viewpoint.

I am excited about Africa’s prospects. If you are too and would like to learn more, find out how to buy your ticket to this year’s London Business School Africa Business Summit by visiting www.lbsabs.org.

About the author:
Isaac Gross is a member of the 2015 MBA class at London Business School. Before coming to London Business School, Isaac worked for the Clinton Health Access Initiative in West Africa and the USA. In Africa, Isaac managed a $10 million HIV medication donation, which provided lifesaving medication to over 50,000 people. He also advised governments on cost reduction strategies. In one instance, he helped Ivory Coast save over $3 million by convincing policy makers to update their HIV treatment protocols and buy medication from low-cost generic manufacturers. Isaac is at London Business School because he wants to transition from public health to development finance. He is on the Execu|Searchtive committees of the Africa and Net Impact Clubs at London Business School and enjoys playing golf, tennis and rugby. Isaac graduated from Brown University in 2007 with a Bachelors in Science in Psychology.

 

Finally! An article on African business and investment analysis! It's great to hear your story and would love to learn more about resources you used in analyzing and benchmarking African businesses. Please feel free to message me and maybe we could find a way to chat offline.

Thanks, Matt

 

I was reading about Alinko Dangote--a Nigerian billionaire--a few days ago. Surprise, surprise--he made his fortune through rank corruption and cronyism. The article said that anyone who's anyone who wants to do business in Nigeria knows about this guy and usually goes through him at some point. The Obama administration had apparently pointed to Dangote as a key player and contact in Nigeria who would be overseeing Nigeria's rise.

As an American, frankly, it seems like a pretty difficult task to successfully invest in Africa. Without the rule of law, the risk seems incredible. Add in the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act that prohibits Americans from engaging in corruption overseas and I just don't see why Americans would want to get involved in that continent. How do you do business in corrupt nations when you are prohibited by your own domestic law from engaging in corruption? This is why Africa is going to be an amazing place to do business for the Chinese and Eastern Europeans since the rule of law is, at best, a tertiary concern in their jurisdictions (not to digress, but there are a multitude of reasons the USD will remain dominant for years to come, the rule of law being among those many reasons).

 
LBS Bloggers:

I don't disagree that it's challenging to invest in Africa, but these major US PE funds seem to be finding a way: http://www.wsj.com/articles/tpg-hires-ex-goldman-b.... Additionally, funds here in London don't seem to have too much trouble raising capital: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d454a1dc-d6b9-11e4-97c3-00144feab7de.html#axz…

It's probably because they have "front men" (front organizations) on the ground who are greasing the palms of various government officials. Realistically, how could one operate in Africa without engaging in corruption? Or at least without engaging in what a modern, Western nation might regard as corruption? There are ways of getting around it ("local organizations"), but to most investors that's a challenge not worth the return. But hey, more power to the people who want to take on the challenge.

With regard to PE, it makes sense that PE money would flow to Africa. PE investors are looking for outsized investment returns that they can't get in traditional investments, so it doesn't surprise me at all that PE funds can raise money for African investment.

 

Sounds great. I figure there is huge potential in providing energy down there. That'll be the key to getting a stream of new businesses set up, a stable electricity grid. Government can't do it, it's gotta be privatized.

That and agribusiness. If you have a ton of land, or buy a ton and then get some texas / idaho farmer to partner with you and just make a killing growing coffee, palm oil, or something like that.

I think I want to work in NYC for two years just to get some US experience, and then either Singapore or the middle east (there is already a ton of arab money in Africa) before returning to Africa and starting something up. I just feel like I will find that more fulfilling than chasing prestige in New York my whole life, I feel obligated to give back.

 
monyet:
I think I want to work in NYC for two years just to get some US experience, and then either Singapore or the middle east (there is already a ton of arab money in Africa) before returning to Africa and starting something up. I just feel like I will find that more fulfilling than chasing prestige in New York my whole life, I feel obligated to give back.

How would going to NYC for 2 years -> Singapore/middle east help?

"Have you ever tried to use a chain with 3 weak links? I have, and now I no longer own an arctic wolf." -Dwight Schrute
 

You hit a very important issue, and it is local awareness. I have seen Clean Energy investment proposals for africa, and it all seem very interesting, but you HAVE to know what you are doing, if not your risk is just too high.The other issue, for example in nigeria, is dutch diseases, nigeria is the biggest producer of cassava but for internal consumption, and unlike thailand they have not developed related industries, like starch, even as they had a thriving agricultural industry for quite a while. In my view, its a very good place to invest, if you know what you are doing, you dont want to help dr Zulu get out of the country the hidden treasure of a nigerian prince worth millions for a very small initial investment ; ).

Valor is of no service, chance rules all, and the bravest often fall by the hands of cowards. - Tacitus Dr. Nick Riviera: Hey, don't worry. You don't have to make up stories here. Save that for court!
 

Ha, exactly. Bloody thieves everywhere. Say getting fucked over / having problems with government / getting a lot land is not an issue for a number of reasons, would you give up the Ivy --> GS --> KKR ---> HBS ---> KKR path to risk it on something like that ? What would be the ideal preparation for starting a business like that ?

Would banking even be useful at all other than for branding purposes ? Would consulting be a better bet ? If I am looking to focus on green energy or oil, would working at an energy hedge funds / PE firms and learning the industry in and out before heading down there ?

I'm just thinking that working in the US for a couple of years to get the reputation of the firm and then move down there, get a loan, and start something up seems increasingly appealing. I just don't want to be a monkey my entire life, but I want to think this through as thoroughly as possible before adjusting my career path to gear it towards this.

 

No question moving somewhere with major deficiencies, and making a profit bringing some piece of the modern era, especially a cornerstone, would be an accomplishment more fulfilling than analyzing spreadsheet based abstractions of operations far removed from your cubicle and would take less nights of wreckless over indulgence in a major city to generate real satisfaction.

That being said, MoneyT, if you need someone to build tables to analyze your likelihood of being mugged, grifted, or dismembered, holla back

 

Africa will eventually advance, but they are back of the bus. China, India and SA are too easy to waste time in a continent continually at war, requiring rape insurance, vast HIV infection and a myriad of other issues.

I've always wanted to make large parts of Africa into game reserves. Such amazing animals there. That and diamonds.

 
ANT:
Africa will eventually advance, but they are back of the bus. China, India and SA are too easy to waste time in a continent continually at war, requiring rape insurance, vast HIV infection and a myriad of other issues.

I've always wanted to make large parts of Africa into game reserves. Such amazing animals there. That and diamonds.

ANT, but that's precisely my point. Those places already have everyone and their brother setting up shop, the competition will be at American levels before long, the boat has already left the harbor. Sure you can become a multi-millionaire making some random business there (if you know the culture, etc, which you probably do not as well as the American educated national there) but all the big moves have been made. I've lived in Asia for 13 years and it made me realize that yes there are tremendous growth opportunities, but there are also entrepreneurs who are smarter than you, who speak the language, and who have a network you could only dream of that will kill you at your own game. You're too late.

Africa is what Brazil was 30 years ago. You make the big moves now, and we're talking greatness. Eike Batista / Li Ka-Shing / Mukesh and Anil Ambani style. I don't know about you guys, but this is not about the money for me, it is about greatness and helping my people out.

I plan to get into the Ugandan market. There has been stability there for 30 years, good growth, no inflation, decently open elections, 7% HIV rate that is declining fast, great weather and tourism, very fertile land and they found oil there. I also happen to be from a Kennedy equivalent family there (great aunt is the minister of finance etc) so nobody is going to fuck with me. For me at least, it seems like the risks are low but the upside, if I get it right, are immense. I may never make what I could have if I went to New York and stayed there, but part of me does not care about that. I think this is a risk I'm willing to take.

do you guys think it would be dumb for me to do this ? Does my career path seem legit ?

I'm starting to think the consulting may help me learn about running a company a lot better than banking could. MM PE would probably be best. Right ?

 

New York or houston to gain industry experience (I'm planning doing energy first, but I have to do more research that may change) and working in the US impresses people when I get to the middle east and put me give me leverage to prove I am worthy.

I'll go to the middle east to tap my strong network there. I'll work there for a few years and make gain their trust which is vital to my ultimate plan. I'll then take out a large loan - i know where to get it - and head off to Africa to invest the money. Many middle easterners are already investing in Africa so it seems natural to seek capital from there. The way I see it, all the pieces fit. It's almost like there is a plan for me to go and do this. Most of the barriers to entry that other people would have do not exist for me so it makes it that much easier. I just need the balls to actually do what I say I'm going to do and I have to plan in out methodically.

 

I'm not saying individual countries within Africa are not good investments, but the continent as a whole is a very, very long term play.

I would base investments of level of infrastructure and mineral wealth. You need the oil and precious gems to build the basics while they wait for the rest of the BRIC nations to over heat.

Look for high life expectancy also. I think that is a good indicator.

 

Monyet, first time I looked at this thread, I thought it was overly ambitious and dangerous. I did not realize your background or the kind of connections you have. If you really think you can make it work go for it, but from the standpoint of someone without those connections, investing in Africa is very risky.

Men are so simple and so much inclined to obey immediate needs that a deceiver will never lack victims for his deceptions. -Niccolo Machiavelli
 

Definitely, the more undeveloped the market, the greater the returns. Just like in investing, if you want a high return, you have to go for the start-up versus the cash cow. If you can pick the right start up, the choice is obvious as to which is more profitable.

Africa is, amazingly, one of the freest markets on earth. Start a monopoly? Sure. Start your own city? If you've got the cash...

That said, I can definitely appreciate why people prefer the GS->KKR->HBS path. I think risk is only part of the equation; even coming from GS, shooting for a megafund is no certain thing.

You could reap a huge return in Africa, but therein lies the catch: you are in Africa. For me, even BRIC countries are a little too undeveloped for me to comfortably live in, and for many, their idea of roughin' it might be heading to Silicon Valley. I hear they have raccoons on the golf courses there.

I guess it comes down to how much comfort you are willing to sacrifice while getting rich. Being an analyst is tough, but at least you are pulling 100 hour weeks in an air conditioned office on a comfortable chair.

 

Thanks for the advice. I don't mind roughing it up at all. I more or less really don't give a shit about wealth as long as I am doing something productive and am not suffering. I want to make a lot of money, but more just for the satisfaction of having built something worth a lot of money rather than to spend it. If things get real bad, I will just bunk with my parents and make like a farm or something on their land.

You would be surprised though, some of the nicest mansions I've seen are in Africa, it is not anywhere as near as bad as you may assume it is if you know where to look. The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it makes so much sense that I'd be willing to give up GS etc to pursue it. Now I just have to flesh out a really good plan for what I'm going to do in between now and when I decide to go over there and of course the details of my business plan that I only have a vague notion of now.

This is what I'm thinking:

Graduate and get a job at some energy firm that focuses on renewable energy or some energy related PE firm to learn everything I can about the industry and save up a bit of cash. Or do consulting as I may want to branch away from just providing energy - maybe focus on energy company consulting if that even exists ? I'll probably do that for two years in the US.

Then move to the Middle east and find a similar job at an energy related firm and just keep on saving. Hit up my ME network and pitch my business plan to them to get substantial start up capital. At this point, if I fail i can just keep on working at my firm so my life may not be baller, but it would be really comfortable. Do that for 3-5 years. My partner (an engineer in the Netherlands) will source his dad's friend who are all bankers for start up capital.

Move to Uganda once I have a solid business plan, know where I can source all the materials and labor I need, have the resources and land all set up, confirm with the President that I have his green light, and know where I can get capital goods etc. Then i set up shop and get the dough rolling.

Does that sound like a good plan ??

 
monyet:
Thanks for the advice. I don't mind roughing it up at all. I more or less really don't give a shit about wealth as long as I am doing something productive and am not suffering. I want to make a lot of money, but more just for the satisfaction of having built something worth a lot of money rather than to spend it. If things get real bad, I will just bunk with my parents and make like a farm or something on their land.

You would be surprised though, some of the nicest mansions I've seen are in Africa, it is not anywhere as near as bad as you may assume it is if you know where to look. The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it makes so much sense that I'd be willing to give up GS etc to pursue it. Now I just have to flesh out a really good plan for what I'm going to do in between now and when I decide to go over there and of course the details of my business plan that I only have a vague notion of now.

This is what I'm thinking:

Graduate and get a job at some energy firm that focuses on renewable energy or some energy related PE firm to learn everything I can about the industry and save up a bit of cash. Or do consulting as I may want to branch away from just providing energy - maybe focus on energy company consulting if that even exists ? I'll probably do that for two years in the US.

Then move to the Middle east and find a similar job at an energy related firm and just keep on saving. Hit up my ME network and pitch my business plan to them to get substantial start up capital. At this point, if I fail i can just keep on working at my firm so my life may not be baller, but it would be really comfortable. Do that for 3-5 years. My partner (an engineer in the Netherlands) will source his dad's friend who are all bankers for start up capital.

Move to Uganda once I have a solid business plan, know where I can source all the materials and labor I need, have the resources and land all set up, confirm with the President that I have his green light, and know where I can get capital goods etc. Then i set up shop and get the dough rolling.

Does that sound like a good plan ??

I just wanna invest with you XD, I think is a very interesting plan, and being latin american and having some african friends I understand how connections are important. Funny thing, I currently work at one of germany's biggest energy companies doing renewable energy projects, including some planned in Africa. Very interesting plan indeed, in my opinion connections, experience and money = profit in undeveloped countries, I would love to see how it all end up. On the other hand, beware of preconceptions you will find, specially in the US, it is very likely that you know the country environment better than many people youll work for.
Valor is of no service, chance rules all, and the bravest often fall by the hands of cowards. - Tacitus Dr. Nick Riviera: Hey, don't worry. You don't have to make up stories here. Save that for court!
 

hey man, you asked me to chime in so here I am. Knowing next to nothing about Africa / Uganda (I am finally making a trip to Kenya in July), I am sure there are great opportunities for people with the right connections and a solid business plan.

My primary advice would be to try an network with other entrepreneurs that have already started successful businesses in Uganda. What do they wish they had to make their lives easier? What could you do (maybe energy related, maybe not) that would help fill a major void with as little start-up capital as possible?

I think it will be important that you try to get focused on something very niche - you don't have to try and become a huge energy conglomerate in year 1. What if you first started by providing consulting services to renewable energy companies trying to start businesses there themselves...you could earn some good $ and at the same time learn a lot about that industry. Eventually with start-up capital, connections and a deep knowledge of the industry, you could position a new company (theoretically) to thrive in the area.

You only live once. If you can get a more detailed plan developed, I say go for it as soon as possible...

 
WallStreetOasis.com:
hey man, you asked me to chime in so here I am. Knowing next to nothing about Africa / Uganda (I am finally making a trip to Kenya in July), I am sure there are great opportunities for people with the right connections and a solid business plan.

My primary advice would be to try an network with other entrepreneurs that have already started successful businesses in Uganda. What do they wish they had to make their lives easier? What could you do (maybe energy related, maybe not) that would help fill a major void with as little start-up capital as possible?

I think it will be important that you try to get focused on something very niche - you don't have to try and become a huge energy conglomerate in year 1. What if you first started by providing consulting services to renewable energy companies trying to start businesses there themselves...you could earn some good $ and at the same time learn a lot about that industry. Eventually with start-up capital, connections and a deep knowledge of the industry, you could position a new company (theoretically) to thrive in the area.

You only live once. If you can get a more detailed plan developed, I say go for it as soon as possible...

Are you still planning to take that Kenyan trip Patrick for I am technically from there & lived there for a while having both local know how especially in IB side. The major players, the biggest being Dyer & Blair boutique investment bank and the underwriter along with Morgan Stanley for biggest cellular carrier IPO in Kenya(Safaricom). Do let me know. Cheers.

 

For the safer play in Africa, look to South Africa. It's one of the more sophisticated countries of the emerging markets. It's also considered to be the gateway for international companies looking to enter the continent. Wal-mart didn't buy Massmart in South Africa because of the 50m people in the country - they bought it so they could eventually expand to serve the billion people across the continent. Also, Africa's been a big supplier of raw materials to Asia, and has a rising middle class around the mining towns in particular. Not all areas of the continent are grass huts , war paint, and jungle!

 

My 2 cents.

I think 20 years ago, someone might be impressed that you were a banker in New York. Nowadays, I feel that the so-called "branding" edge starting off in New York gives you has been severely discounted by the 2008 financial crises - which more or less proved that US policy makers / financial institutions have no idea what they were doing.

Also, the BRIC markets are getting increasingly sophisticated themselves. Having the proper professional network, regional understanding, and developing language sophistication (if application) will be much more beneficial than saying, "Oh hi, I worked in New York".

 

Monyet, 1- You need balls to take that bet and I know for a fact that most of the Wall Street wannabees heroes who are on this board don't have enough jewels between their legs to take your bet.

2- Read their posts and you will see that a great majority of them are running toward NY instead of the emerging markets. They would rather be a janitor at GS than being a FA at Legg Mason. They would rather be a servant in heaven than being a king in hell.

3- They are afraid of corruption, HIV, political crisis .... as if Brazil is not corrupted, Brazil has no favelas, businesses in China is free of governmental intervention, or Chile had no Pinochet. No wonder Bob Dudley fled Russia during the TNK-BP hostility. He had the same fearful mindset of many on this board. You can always accomplish an impossible business deal in these countries, otherwise Sebastián Piñera would not have been a successful entrepreneur and José Piñera would not have taken Pinochet's bet.

Guys, there is always a way around in these countries. It does not have to be corruption or like you do it in the U.S : lobbyism.

Oui!oui!oui! Money Gives Power, Power Buys Positions
 

I would like to start a company that makes it very easy to make private placement investments in Africa and Central America. Almost like a secondary market for African securities. Monyet, instead of Uganda, I would aim at West Africa, Nigeria, and Ivory Coast and Southern Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana and Namibia. I have been to South Africa and I would say it is a tad bit too competitive and developed to get the type of returns that would make the venture worth it. Namibia, Botswana and Ghana have the most developed equity markets in Africa. Its not uncommon for a stock index to have a 100% returns. Nigeria is obviously the heavyweight in the room, in excess of 150 million people in a country that could possibly take over the production of cheap goods.

I would love to start a venture that makes it easy to invest in Africa.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 

first off, very inspiring monyet! I've been thinking of doing along these lines myself. Uganda seems like an ideal country for your plans, very interesting indeed and with those contacts, I have no doubt you will manage.

eokpar02:
I would like to start a company that makes it very easy to make private placement investments in Africa and Central America. Almost like a secondary market for African securities. Monyet, instead of Uganda, I would aim at West Africa, Nigeria, and Ivory Coast and Southern Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana and Namibia. I have been to South Africa and I would say it is a tad bit too competitive and developed to get the type of returns that would make the venture worth it. Namibia, Botswana and Ghana have the most developed equity markets in Africa. Its not uncommon for a stock index to have a 100% returns. Nigeria is obviously the heavyweight in the room, in excess of 150 million people in a country that could possibly take over the production of cheap goods.

I would love to start a venture that makes it easy to invest in Africa.

I have also been looking at Namibia and Botswana. Great countries for harvesting resources but low populations, less than 4 million combined. I know the skeleton coast of Namibia is ripe with diamonds, to the point where the government has fenced off about 30 % of the atlantic coast line. Imagine getting to tap into that. I also know there are opportunities for mining in Nam, all kinds of minerals including uranium. Don't know that much about Botswana but there has to be something beneath the Kalahari, right?

Otherwise, if you're aiming to sell stuff to people I think the Uganda-area is good. Close proximity to Kenya and Tanzania which, of course, are big players. However, I spent some time in Africa recently and heard great things about Mocambique, apparently it's up and coming. I could see also see Zambia as a good place to start - close to Zimbabwe in the south, Mocambique to the east and Tanzania to the north, and past that, Uganda and Kenya.

 
monyet:
...and Africa is strategically placed between the middle east, Asia, and Europe and can deliver products to these destinations easily.

I think you'll find that the middle east is strategically placed between all those places, while africa is on the periphery. Are you sure you know where you're going amigo?

 

thanks for the replies.

baby.faced.banker:
monyet:
...and Africa is strategically placed between the middle east, Asia, and Europe and can deliver products to these destinations easily.

I think you'll find that the middle east is strategically placed between all those places, while Africa is on the periphery. Are you sure you know where you're going amigo?

Yes, I know that I happen to live in the middle east. I also know that many middle eastern businessmen invest in Africa (especially Sudan etc) to grow food and then import it to the middle east and off to the rest of the places I mentioned. So what I said holds. Look at a map, shipping stuff from Mombasa to India or Indonesia is equally far than if you shipped it from Dubai. There is really a lot of trade that happens with Dubai though, so I don't see why that is a problem. So that is not an issue. It just is not done yet because of a lack of volume. My uncle is in the shipping business and ships things from uganda to London through Mombasa I'm guessing, so I know for a fact that it can be done without making it economically unfeasible.

The reason Uganda interests me so much is three fold.

  1. I am from there and know I can get workers who are from my tribe that have worked for our family for generations and would not cut and run as easily. This is more important than you think. One of my friends told me a story of a foreigner that hired a boy to do his garden. He would always pay the boy one dollar and he would keep on coming back to do his garden. One day he paid him two dollars for his good work and the boy skipped work for a day before coming back to work. There is an issue with getting reliable workers there so if you have that you are gold.

  2. My network there is strong. It is probably equally strong in Nigeria and Malaysia/Indonesia (where I grew up) and stronger in the middle east in terms of the wealth of these individuals, but blood is thicker than water. But that just convinces me to do it more because that way I can feed these bigger players from Uganda. Be the biggest fish in the smallest pool where these big guys do not have a guy they can trust on the ground.

  3. Nigeria already has Dangote, you do not become Dangote just like that. Dangote is from a powerful family and is close with the president. If i entered any industry he was in he could crush me. I am actually trying to figure out if I can get in contact with him as I would love to work for him after graduation because I think that would be the ultimate experience I need. A distant second would be consulting. RIght ?

  4. Uganda just found two billion barrels of oil, and the dam Blackstone's portfolio company just built doubles electricity output, plus Uganda has a lot of untapped renewable energy sources. So on those 3 points Uganda wins out.

  5. Ugandans more or less speak more and better english than any other country in east Africa. If i wanted to make an infosys like company, I would do it here or in Nigeria.

    1. If I completely failed in Uganda, I still have my land and a Wharton degree and family name. So I could just become a farmer and join the finance ministry. So I cannot screw this up too massively. Won't be the NYC models and bottles scene, but I dont really care that much. I'll be emotionally satisfied.

btw, 30 years ago ghana/uganda and malaysia had similar GDP's per person etc, now Malaysia has ten times out GDP. Having grown up in Malaysia, I think I realize just how fast these countries can turn around, the key is getting the multi-nationals to set up business.

I am going to spend the next three years running though many different ideas. Right now I am just at the idea generation stage. One of the things I was considering is this. Given the fact that i know a few industrialist in the arab world and asia, II think I will be best served by setting up a company that makes it easy for other companies to get set up because I know demand for that is there. I would source and screen labor to get reliable people, tell my clients how to approach government police / help them deal with them and how to avoid corruption unless absolutely necessary. Serve as an infosys like company for africa provided the internet situation continues to pick up as fast as it has and the price point for data decreases. Set up access to water, electricty (ive got a very good idea for this that I wont go into), cheap land where they can get set up. Help them negotiate with government for tax breaks / incentives to invest. The fact that I am an america allows me to fly easily between the two places, so if I position myself as the guy with international contacts to the ugandans, and the guy with the ugandan contacts / know how / resources on the ground that make the job easier to the Americans, I think I fulfill an important niche. It is 100% about trust., Can a multi national trust you not to screw them over / be corrupt / provide them with the necessary inputs reliably. I want to be that guy.

Could not do that in any country other than uganda, because even though I have a network in those other places, I am not from them so someone else could have an even more powerful, well more likely a deeper connection with the same people because they are from there or are related and I cannot compete with that. In africa you do not want to get into business unless you are absolutely sure you are top dog. Unless the president himself decided to compete with me, I don't see myself being challenged in Uganda as easily. NIgeria has its fair share of very wealthy / power families that could crush me if I became a threat. That is absolutely not the case in Nigeria. So even though Nigeria may be more lucrative, it does not make sense from a risk perspective for me.

Uganda also has 30 mill people, Kenya has a similarly sized population and the two people are very similar, it is basically one country many ugandans consider kenyans more culturally/ ethnically similar to them than they do nothern ugandans are. Ditto with tanzanians and Rawandans. In fact, they are trying to become one country 0 H ave an east african passport that means I can go to any of them in addition to my ugandan and american passports. So I think that is a 70 million people strong country I'm serving with access to the port of mombasa that gives me access to the world.

 

Completely agree that Africa is the best frontier investment destination and that the opportunities for first-movers are enormous. That said, some of the suggestions and comments in this thread are way off-base.

I don't know where you get off saying that Uganda's had relatively free elections for the last 30 years. The reason the country's been relatively stable (I say relatively because it's also been home to the LRA in the northwestern regions for quite awhile) is because of Museveni. He came in fighting, with a great degree of help from well-trained Rwandan refugees that now run the RPF, and he hasn't let go of power since. Despite the appearance of stability, there are still huge question marks about what happens when Museveni is gone. Two months ago, you could have made the same statements about Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, etc...

Also, are you sure you're looking in the right place for hydropower? Sure, the Nile is the longest river in the world, but the hydropower potential of the Congo River is much higher. (Volume, rate and consistency of flow are really what matter.) There are ongoing plans to build a series of hydro dams at the Inga Falls in Bas Congo, DRC. Inga 3 has already been commissioned with support from BHP Billiton, who are building an aluminium smelter nearby. The Grand Inga dam has made it through feasibility study stages and, if financing can be secured, could eventually generate enough power to supply all of Africa with some left over to export to Europe. The dam would be twice the size of the Three Gorges Dam in China and would be one fo the cheapest power suppliers in the world. Considering those options, are you sure the Nile is the best place for hydo potential?

As for diamonds in Namibia and Bots, they're essentially all controlled by DeBeers. They haven't roped off all that coastline because they want to protect the diamonds for somebody else to mine. They know exactly what they have and getting any piece of the action there would be next to impossible. DeBeers has existing JVs with the governments of both countries. You'd have better luck scouring for diamonds further north in the DRC and Angola, but only if you bring an AK47 along with your shovel.

Bottom line - I agree with the general thesis, but just because it's frontier doesn't mean things haven't already been done, and also doesn't mean these things are easy to do. Africa is by far the most diverse and least understood continent in the world. Do some more research on the opportunities and markets there before making any rash decisions.

 

Yeah, I agree that the stability in Uganda, though not currently an issue, could become one. There is the tension between the Baganda (my tribe) and the people of the West, there are questions about who will come in after him, there are issues regarding a resurgence of rebel groups when he is gone (though I do not think that will happen), but on the whole I think that Uganda will not disintegrate into violence again. We remember what happened before. And anyhow, I have family on both sides of the aisle, so whoever is in power my plans still hold, the only question is whether investors will buy into it, which would be no if there is even the hint of violence. I definitely have to get on the ground and talk to family see what they think, but something will be sorted out. The baganda do not want war, no one does. I think that democratic institutions are coming into place. Though the elections have been rigged and the electoral commission is partial towards the government, the chairman of the electoral commission is not corrupt and is fair so I believe that under his leadership Uganda will transition even faster to a proper democracy. The last elections were very reassuring. There may have been very minimal vote rigging, but everyone agrees museveni actually won.

Never said we had fair elections for 30 years, the two before the last one were extremely rigged, i did say that we had relative stability, which is true.

I think that as Uganda becomes more prosperous over the next few years, the lower the likelihood that it will disintegrate into violence. You're right about the Nile and Congo, Uganda's capacity is 2000 MW for hydropower, while limited it serves my purposes but still only a quarter of its current capacity including the new dam. I am not getting into the hydropower industry though, it is way too capital intensive for me to even dream about, you're talking hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars if you want to make something large enough to serve industry. Even at current levels, the water level of the nile has been an issue in the past. My idea for power generation cannot be done in congo to my knowledge, or not as easily, but is very ideal.

But as I said, I am only a freshman in college and have three more years and a few years after I graduate to really flesh out my plans. I have a lot to study, and I cannot underestimate the competition. Knowledge of how the African market operates is the key to everything here, and that is not something that is easily mastered.

 

Haha my dad started a business in Africa last year, and had thought about doing so for a few years. There's definitely some great opportunities to get your hands dirty, but it's such a pain to even try to get there...

I get what you're saying about China, I just personally wouldn't call it a saturation point. With everyone raving about how hot China is right now, I feel like most people don't really get the real picture - yes the economy is booming, but it could only grow so fast while everything else is lagging behind.

Policy, infrastructure and culture-wise, China is making improvements surely but very slowly, and the truth is you can only stretch out economic growth so far with these other things setting confinements... That's why when people say China's taking over I don't take them seriously - policy, infras & culture take so much longer to properly develop. I really don't see China dominating in at least another 5 - 10 years

I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

Great thread.

I also need tomake the case for a country not really mentioned here: Nigeria. This is a country that is, IMO, ripe for growth and investment. Sure there is still rampant corruption, but it is relatively stable, with no significanty civil unrest (this kind of behavior is restricted to the Northern part of the country). It has a huge, relatively educated labor force, and the government is on a privatization spree, selling off telecom and other infrastuctural investments. The power sector is being privatized and, given a few years, there would be relatively stable power supply. This is one of the major issues that is halting Nigeria's growth: the lack of stable electricity supply. Right now costs of production are realtively high due to this, but with the privatization scheme, private players (Chinese and Indian companies) have started moving in and acquiring cxontracts to build power stations and the like.

 

You guys should watch the Current TV documentary on how Africa is being raped and pillaged from a labor standpoint by China. It's on Hulu.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
You guys should watch the Current TV documentary on how Africa is being raped and pillaged from a labor standpoint by China. It's on Hulu.

There was a Newsweek article on this about a year ago. The Chinese focus was on setting up a mine, bringing in Chinese workers, getting everything out of the mine and moving on tho the next one. Americans, on the other hand, like to do agriculture in Africa.

If anyone wants to set up a HF there, just make sure to have a private airstrip.

 

There's already a PE firm specialising in African investment - African Development Corp (http://www.african-development.com). They're pretty small atm - $100m and a dozen or so people as I remember - but they're backed by a reasonably respectable German finance conglomerate, and they're currently recruiting. Saw a presentation by one of their people at the LSE Alternative investment conference a couple of months ago - very impressive. The guy was practically mugged by people thrusting CVs at him after he finished.

 

There are lots of PE firms specialising in African investment. Check out Actis, Emerging Capital Partners, Ethos and plent of others. Just because people dont know anything about investment and development in Africa doesn't mean it's not already happening.

 

I don't agree at all. Africa still has a good 15-20 years left before they experience substantial growth. The only ways I see that you can make money there are a) sell extremely cheap, high margin products (a la coca cola) to the masses or sell very high end products to the upper 1% of the country. There is no middle.

Also its unfair to even compare South America to Africa. According to Global Insight, Uganda has a per Capita GDP of US$445, compared to Brazil's US$10,746, Argentina's US$8,910 and Mexico's US$9,384. Even 10 years ago, their GDP was US$3,700, US$7,698, and US$6,602, respectively.

Sure there is plenty of growth left to be had in China, but the Chinese are plenty capable of exploiting it themselves and the competition there is incredible - ditto for Brazil.

This statement is also NOT true. Brazil is hosting two huge events within the next five years and they’re a long ways from even creating the necessary infrastructure. It’s so bad that there aren’t enough tools to build with! A whole industry has cropped up around tool rentals within Brazil.

I’ve done work in Brazil and they have a long way to go in developing an entrepreneurial mindset and exploit this growth. And also the talent just isn’t yet there.

 
TimRay:
I don't agree at all. Africa still has a good 15-20 years left before they experience substantial growth. The only ways I see that you can make money there are a) sell extremely cheap, high margin products (a la coca cola) to the masses or sell very high end products to the upper 1% of the country. There is no middle. .

As a young professional doing business in sub-Saharan Africa, I really hope everyone thinks like you. Low competition = big fat margins. First mover advantage means we dominate the market in 10-15 years when everyone who thinks like you realises that the market exists.

It's the beauty of a low base - the overall size of the market doesn't matter much. I'd rather buy for $15m and sell for $100m than buy for $1b and sell for $1.2b. Opportunities with that type of payback are abundant in Africa, while they don't exist in most other places in the world. Take a look at economic growth statistics globally and you should realise how wrong you are about the growth not being there yet. "Africa" won't grow evenly, but Ghana, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Zambia, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania and a suite of other countries are already growing very fast and will continue to do so.

Even more importantly, take a look at trends in demographics and urbanisation. China's population is plateauing and aging rapidly. They'll be older than the US by 2050 and will have an entire host of problems, both social and economic, that come with widespread aging. Africa, as a region, has the highest population growth rates in the world by a wide margin. Urbanisation is picking up fast, and as individuals move to cities, they have fewer kids. The result is a larger portion of the population supporting a smaller portion, ie. demographic dividend = a larger proporational labour force and a highly productive population.

 

... going back to the OP, it looks like the question is whether or not I would be willing to take the kind of risk to go to Africa and start a new venture...

In short, no way.

However, for you, since you are from a "Kennedy-like" family and your "great aunt is the minister of finance"... I suppose you really have nothing to lose. Don't take this the wrong way, but I wonder whether the purpose of the post was to talk about the future economy of Africa, or to tell everyone about how politically connected you are in Uganda. Just sayin.

(If you're sensing a bit of resentment from me you're probably right... growing up in lower/middle class and having to struggle/pay my way through college, I just don't relate to the kids who have a "tough" decision of choosing between GS or going back to Uganda to live like royalty... sorry.)

Here comes the shit.

 
XPJ:
... going back to the OP, it looks like the question is whether or not I would be willing to take the kind of risk to go to Africa and start a new venture...

In short, no way.

However, for you, since you are from a "Kennedy-like" family and your "great aunt is the minister of finance"... I suppose you really have nothing to lose. Don't take this the wrong way, but I wonder whether the purpose of the post was to talk about the future economy of Africa, or to tell everyone about how politically connected you are in Uganda. Just sayin.

(If you're sensing a bit of resentment from me you're probably right... growing up in lower/middle class and having to struggle/pay my way through college, I just don't relate to the kids who have a "tough" decision of choosing between GS or going back to Uganda to live like royalty... sorry.)

Here comes the shit.

Fair post. What do I get out of that though ? Nothing. This is an anonymous forum, i highly doubt anyone is so egotistical that they get a boner off other people commenting about them on an anonymous forum. I put that out there because it contextualizes the risk I am taking, that's it. Getting advice as just an American going over there is completely different to the advice I would get as a Ugandan with a base there, so I wanted the latter. And it is unlikely that I can even get to GS, that was just the best case scenario. If you felt I was showing off, I apologize that was not my intention. If you look at my posts on the prep school thread you can see that I said my nuclear family is not even that wealthy, though connected, and that I despise people that show off about their wealth. So that was certainly not my intention.

Thanks for your responses everyone. I think I've got to mull this over because as some of you have pointed out, I may have been making huge assumptions about other developing countries that may not be true, and I may be blind to the real risk of investing in Africa for sentimental reasons. Lastly, I may be underestimating my potential in competing in the Asian / South American markets. I've got a lot of research to do, but I do find this interesting. And I do have something to loose, I can only take out loans once, if I mess up the first time that may be it for me. If my first investment is a home run, then I could raise a lot more money to invest. The risks are huge. Also, I may be over estimating the entrepreneurial ability of the asian markets / the level of development that has already occurred and its potential - particularly for countries like Indonesia ( i grew up in Malaysia so I am very used to the culture and really love that area of the world - so if anywhere else it would be there). I'm very bullish on Africa in the long term, but it is all a matter of timing, risk, and knowledge so I have got a lot of reading to do.

Btw, 30 years ago Malaysia and Ghana has similar GDP per captia. It only took 30 years of steady investment to completely change everything. I think Africa is no different. Anyhow, I am not looking to serve the African consumer, at least not initially. What I am looking to do is use the cheap labor (cheaper than even China, Malaysia, etc that have become mid wage countries) and possibly land to either manufacture cheap food goods or something and then export them via mombassa to the west / the middle east. I've got to give this a lot more thought, it is not as simple as it seems and I may be operating off of false assumptions, but that is more or less the plan. Bringing the mid level parts of the manufacturing process to Africa as Asia and SA transition into higher wage economies. Uganda has the youngest population in the world and is 30 + mill strong with fertile soils and low wages, but they also speak english well. What is not to like ?

 

Monyet, This is really interesting and I can see where your coming from. Going to Africa would be a risk, but a huge adventure. I think it would be fantastic! You said you wanted to go to the middle east, are you thinking about learning arabic, and other languages to get into africa?? GOod teaming up with a dutch guy, we( i;m dutch) have good experience in building stuff (abroad).

Good luck man!

 
Walkerr:
Monyet, This is really interesting and I can see where your coming from. Going to Africa would be a risk, but a huge adventure. I think it would be fantastic! You said you wanted to go to the middle east, are you thinking about learning arabic, and other languages to get into africa?? GOod teaming up with a dutch guy, we( i;m dutch) have good experience in building stuff (abroad).

Good luck man!

Yeah, I mean you guys are the forefathers of the apartheid regime in SA - learn from the best!

For languages, learn Swahili (quite easy relative to Arabic/Mandarin) for East Africa, French for West/Central Africa and Zulu for Southern Africa. Not many languages that are broadly useful for business in sub-Saharan Africa other than those three. Also may be worth taking a crash course in francophone accounting conventions.

 
Walkerr:
Monyet, This is really interesting and I can see where your coming from. Going to Africa would be a risk, but a huge adventure. I think it would be fantastic! You said you wanted to go to the middle east, are you thinking about learning arabic, and other languages to get into africa?? GOod teaming up with a dutch guy, we( i;m dutch) have good experience in building stuff (abroad).

Good luck man!

I'm dutch and african. Best of both worlds, I have quite a few contacts in africa they head PE and IB shops they are all ex goldman/TPG guys

Timray is really mercadolibre the ebay of South America? En serio.. Mate as someone living there now I think SA has a lot more going for it in terms of minerals & infrastructure and ecommerce has a long way to go.....I would say give another 5yrs minimum before It really hits off properly.

 
absinthe:
It's Africa...no way they are paying enough for a westerner to relocate out to Zimbabwe. Can you seriously imagine living without internet, no stable power grid, no friends outside work etc.
  1. It's Zambia, no Zimbabwe. 2, you ever been to Zimbabwe before? And wtf is a stable power grid? I believe you meant stable power supply.
Still I Rise
 

The monetary aspect I get I was more so thinking quality of life. Would I have to hire body guards and shit or could I walk around as a white dude without concern? Shit like that.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
The monetary aspect I get I was more so thinking quality of life. Would I have to hire body guards and shit or could I walk around as a white dude without concern? Shit like that.
I have some friends who worked as missionaries in Africa and Zimbabwe is generally safe for westerners going there to do rural volunteer work like dig wells and help farmers improve crop yields (albeit this is as of four years ago). I am not quite as sure about the big cities. But if you're there to help the community, there's a lot of very primitive* places in Africa where you'll be very safe. The main concerns are food/water safety and access to medical care. Just stay out of Congo, Sudan, etc- avoid the civil war areas.

*:This is not to generalize situations in rural Zimbabwe to say Morocco or Kenya, just to say that there are primitive places in Africa that are safe for westerners.

 

If its under 1 year and over 1m$ bonus then somebody might actually consider it.... but Zimbabwe? whats the fund gonna do? LBO of crematoriums? Not to mention the apes are going to nationalise you the moment you start making money. + the gizzillion percent inflation... nobody can operate in that environment.

The only things Zimbabwe is good at and exports are AIDS and genocide...

 
thor1000:
If its under 1 year and over 1m$ bonus then somebody might actually consider it.... but Zimbabwe? whats the fund gonna do? LBO of crematoriums? Not to mention the apes are going to nationalise you the moment you start making money. + the gizzillion percent inflation... nobody can operate in that environment.

The only things Zimbabwe is good at and exports are AIDS and genocide...

Wow.. This should be reported

 

I lived in West Africa for half a year. No where near as developed as Tunisia, South Africa and Botswana. I never felt imperiled. The people were nice and the work was pretty cool. I worked for a PE firm and had far more responsibility than I had while interning at GS.

PM if you want some more information.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 

Mugabe has turned Zimbabwe into a shit hole. It could have easily surpassed South Africa and Botswana on a GDP per capita basis if that baboon wasn't in power. I would have no problem living in Botswana and South Africa though.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 
eokpar02:
Mugabe has turned Zimbabwe into a shit hole. It could have easily surpassed South Africa and Botswana on a GDP per capita basis if that baboon wasn't in power. I would have no problem living in Botswana and South Africa though.
PM sent.

Its in Zambia and I have a phone chat scheduled with them later this week.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

As the child of a banker/exec in Nigeria and having periodically lived there, I can tell you compensation (especially expat) is stupendous and the benefits (car, housing, driver) are akin to Middle Eastern positions. In expat compounds and all good areas, power is privately generated and extremely reliable. We have broadband and wifi all over Vic Island/Ikeja/Lekki 3 (Lagos banking districts), and your quality of life is comparable if not better there.

Zimbabwe is of course a different situation but Africa can be an amazing place to work/live if you have money. Just my 2 cents.

‎"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns or dollars."
 

Really depends where in africa... but IG I agree with most of it if you have money you're fine...

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee WSO is not your personal search function.
 

If Africa somehow manages to get its shit together, it'll be the next frontier. BRICs all have too much exposure - especially China, and short-term competition is incredibly intense. Players in BRICs are more or less established as well, and you have more and more top talent heading East so it's less of a novelty than it may have been years ago.

Africa on the other hand is a true no-mans land. If you're young, you're not starving, and you're getting a well-paid job in Africa, I would take it in a heart-beat. How many professionals can say that they worked in Africa? And besides, it'll probably be a defining experience of your life, not to mention it will practically guarantee admissions to a top B-school (assuming you have the grades/GMAT range necessary).

 

Happy, let me know what's up. If there's a second position I'll go with you, dead serious.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 
happypantsmcgee:
CPH, I will absolutely suggest it dude.

I concur. You guys may just be interested in business school apps, but you'll fall in love with Africa. I'm 50/50 about moving back either for my FT analyst stint or after or both. They pay and perks add up to an ex-pat lifestyle that's hard to even to picture in the modern world. The people are happy as fuck and more friendly than you'll ever meet. Kudos.

‎"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns or dollars."
 
alreadyrich:
To Independent Gestion, I hear Carlyle is opening an office in Nigeria (and so is GS) Im wondering if you schumks would fly in a heartbeat if you were offered a position there?
Given everything that's happening in the oil-rich regions and the general sense of lawlessness I still get via emails from "AMBASSADOR THABO MBEKI", "BARRISTER HUGO THOMMAS" (sic) and "CROWN PRINCE DARWULLA LAWAL", I think I will stick to South Africa, Morocco, and Kenya.

Nigeria's not Darfur or even pre-revolution Libya, but it's not exactly a place where you can run a large-scale business with a perfectly clean conscience. Just look at Chevron's or Royal Dutch's experience with charges over bribery and unarmed protesters getting shot at by the military.

 
alreadyrich:
To Independent Gestion, I hear Carlyle is opening an office in Nigeria (and so is GS) Im wondering if you schumks would fly in a heartbeat if you were offered a position there?

Ya I heard about GS, the situation is definitely ripe but there are literally thousands of qualified expatriate Nigerian bankers (mostly in London/Texas) who would jump at the opportunity so the competition would be VERY stiff. Very impressed Carlyle is coming down, that would be just about an ideal long-term goal for a citizen like me.

‎"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns or dollars."
 

to op, typically, comp for expatriates are really good in Africa. Free housing, stable electricity, internet (albeit slow), driver, lower taxes etc. and the work could be very interesting as you would be given a ton of responsibility and can easily make a bunch of money since its still developing.

I woud say go for it + it would be eye catching for business school apps as a white male since most expats in Africa go for charity so you would stand out.

 

I just showed up in a very poor East African country a week ago for a 4-5 month consulting gig. Live in an expat enclave which is pretty safe. Got a wireless internet card, power works, water runs. Traffic sucks outside the enclave in the city (spent 1.5+ hrs one day for a 20 minute ride).

You might get hassled by touts in touristy spots (actually had someone pull a knife on me in broad daylight in front of other locals). Most locals are friendly, but some trying to rip you off gives you a sour taste. Foreigners get charged through the nose for transportation, park fees, etc.

Hot as balls with high humidity and rains a lot (think worst months in Houston + South FL). Lot of non profit kids in the (so you will have people of your age from similar background/country unless you are out in the boonies). Food is more expensive than I expected (running $8-$10/meal). Not sure how work will be yet, still trying to figure it out.

 
happypantsmcgee:
I'm bringing a gun...or 3 if I go.

We can probably just pick up a few AKs when we get there. LOL.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 
absinthe:
Ok what about women...no personal life for a year or two is definitely a downer.
You really hate on some Africa dude...Racist!
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

100% chance of contracting AIDS, nbd

"The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, bought and traded by individuals but absolutely limited by the state."—Kenneth Boulding
 
OnTheTrack:
100% chance of contracting AIDS, nbd

You can't catch what you already have!!

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

best quote from the film IMO.

I think that sexual abstinance is really the only way to go in Africa if you interact with the locals... No condom is that safe (Zambia has a 17% HIV prevalence rate = dead man if it breaks). Use your hand for a year or like some suggested, do it with EU, US etc immigrants. You'll probably live in a gated community so your interaction with zambians will be minimal.

 

I love how people, myself included, think about this. Here's the logic,

Other Person: "Oh, Happy, going to Africa will be a great experience and you'll really learn a lot. Business Schools will love it and you get the chance to see how economies work at their most basic level."

Me: "Yea, I mean, I know all that is true but I am kinda worried about the day to day living like speaking the language, having people to hang out with, having bitches to shove my junk in, etc."

Other Person: "Oh, Happy, you won't have to actually live among the people. You can live in a mostly white, mostly English speaking enclave with perfectly functional utilities and plumbing all while being behind the safety of large metal gates and security guards."

Me: "So I would live in Africa but not face any of the challenges or interact with any of the locals the vast majority of the time that I am there"

Other Person: "Exactly"

Me: "Ok, Cool. I might actually consider it then."

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
happypantsmcgee:
I love how people, myself included, think about this. Here's the logic,

Other Person: "Oh, Happy, going to Africa will be a great experience and you'll really learn a lot. Business Schools will love it and you get the chance to see how economies work at their most basic level."

Me: "Yea, I mean, I know all that is true but I am kinda worried about the day to day living like speaking the language, having people to hang out with, having bitches to shove my junk in, etc."

Other Person: "Oh, Happy, you won't have to actually live among the people. You can live in a mostly white, mostly English speaking enclave with perfectly functional utilities and plumbing all while being behind the safety of large metal gates and security guards."

Me: "So I would live in Africa but not face any of the challenges or interact with any of the locals the vast majority of the time that I am there"

Other Person: "Exactly"

Me: "Ok, Cool. I might actually consider it then."

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

You're there to make money and survive, not to be the next Mother Teresa. To make it easier you can pretend you are Jean-Luc Picard and you are not supposed to interact with the people because the prime directive forbids interaction with a pre-warp civilization... something to pass the time on your way to work...

 
thor1000:
You're there to make money and survive, not to be the next Mother Teresa. To make it easier you can pretend you are Jean-Luc Picard and you are not supposed to interact with the people because the prime directive forbids interaction with a pre-warp civilization... something to pass the time on your way to work...

I do this anyway on the 6 train.

"Dude, not trying to be a dick here, but your shop looks like a frontrunner for the cover of Better Boilerrooms & Chophouses or Bucketshop Quarterly." -Uncle Eddie
 

To be perfectly honest, I find some of the ignorance on this thread quite disheartening. Not to worry, you make fortunes when the reality on the ground is most different from people's perceptions, so I'll make my billions while you make your lame condom/aids jokes. Good luck to you.

 
monyet:
To be perfectly honest, I find some of the ignorance on this thread quite disheartening. Not to worry, you make fortunes when the reality on the ground is most different from people's perceptions, so I'll make my billions while you make your lame condom/aids jokes. Good luck to you.
Dude, I think people making jokes on a message board is a pretty normal thing. Its not like we (collectively referring to people) don't think there is value in Africa. I wouldn't have asked the question had I not thought it was a worthy pursuit.
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
monyet:
To be perfectly honest, I find some of the ignorance on this thread quite disheartening. Not to worry, you make fortunes when the reality on the ground is most different from people's perceptions, so I'll make my billions while you make your lame condom/aids jokes. Good luck to you.
Yeah, my friend made seven Googleplexes working as a waiter in Zimbabwe.
 

I was just telling africanamericanfinancialprofessional (blackfinancier) that I was going to watch that to prep for my interview.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
awp:
If you meet someone from the royal family tell him to wire me back my money

Unfortunately, due to political unrest and civil war the funds you sent have been seized by the government and placed into a safety deposit box in a government bank vault. If you could send additional money I will be able to bribe the guard and recover the box with your monies and can then send it back to you.

LOL.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

I spent this past summer in South Africa, which is def pretty Western, but I was the only white guy walking on my block during the day coming home from my internship.

It was hands down the most amazing experience of my life. As an educated American, you will be treated exceptionally well if you are working with natives, and you will get a ton of responsibility. I basically led a 12-week development project for a 90 person firm as a 20 year old, yeah.

The people are incredibly friendly, the food is amazing, and in Cape Town especially, the nightlife was fantastic. Yes, you can't walk off main streets at night, you prob should call a cab company when going home, and you certainly shouldn't wear flashy stuff (nice watches, jewelry etc), but if you aren't a moron, you'll be 100% fine, except for those black swans... I know one guy who was robbed twice in 2 months, I also know white natives who've never been accosted in their 30 years living there.... its all about how you carry yourself, and be aware of wtf is going on around you.

From my experience, there are significant opportunities, and given my success in applying for SA gigs, they loved the Africa experience, its pretty much all I talked about and got offers from two BBs and and made it final rounds at two other BBs and a top PE firm, without any finance experience, subpar SAT scores (yes they ask for them at my school), and below average grades. I think experiences like those are a huge boost to apps, and I'm sure b-schools will recognize you taking that leap.

All in all, do it if you can, you won't regret it, as long as you stay away from war-torn areas, and keep your wits about you. I lived in a 2 bedroom house with my gf with a huge living room/kitchen, front yard, backyard, gated driveway, and we paid 1200 combined for 3 months. You can live so large and save a ton, do it for a year or two and then figure out what is next, you may surprise yourself.

 
westcoaster:
I spent this past summer in South Africa, which is def pretty Western, but I was the only white guy walking on my block during the day coming home from my internship.

It was hands down the most amazing experience of my life. As an educated American, you will be treated exceptionally well if you are working with natives, and you will get a ton of responsibility. I basically led a 12-week development project for a 90 person firm as a 20 year old, yeah.

The people are incredibly friendly, the food is amazing, and in Cape Town especially, the nightlife was fantastic. Yes, you can't walk off main streets at night, you prob should call a cab company when going home, and you certainly shouldn't wear flashy stuff (nice watches, jewelry etc), but if you aren't a moron, you'll be 100% fine, except for those black swans... I know one guy who was robbed twice in 2 months, I also know white natives who've never been accosted in their 30 years living there.... its all about how you carry yourself, and be aware of wtf is going on around you.

From my experience, there are significant opportunities, and given my success in applying for SA gigs, they loved the Africa experience, its pretty much all I talked about and got offers from two BBs and and made it final rounds at two other BBs and a top PE firm, without any finance experience, subpar SAT scores (yes they ask for them at my school), and below average grades. I think experiences like those are a huge boost to apps, and I'm sure b-schools will recognize you taking that leap.

All in all, do it if you can, you won't regret it, as long as you stay away from war-torn areas, and keep your wits about you. I lived in a 2 bedroom house with my gf with a huge living room/kitchen, front yard, backyard, gated driveway, and we paid 1200 combined for 3 months. You can live so large and save a ton, do it for a year or two and then figure out what is next, you may surprise yourself.

Thanks for your contribution. I feel very similar about the time I spent in China, a bit less about the time I spent in Kuwait and Iraq (for obvious reasons, lol) but I think it's important to purposefully step outside of your comfort zone and expand your horizons. And I realize that all sounds cheesy but people tend to get culturally myopic, especially Americans, so as long as shit doesn't go really sideways when you are in neat place like this, then I don't think there is any way you could NOT benefit from your time there.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 
westcoaster:
I spent this past summer in South Africa, which is def pretty Western, but I was the only white guy walking on my block during the day coming home from my internship. ...

The people are incredibly friendly, the food is amazing, and in Cape Town especially, the nightlife was fantastic. Yes, you can't walk off main streets at night, you prob should call a cab company when going home, and you certainly shouldn't wear flashy stuff (nice watches, jewelry etc), but if you aren't a moron, you'll be 100% fine, except for those black swans... I know one guy who was robbed twice in 2 months, I also know white natives who've never been accosted in their 30 years living there.... its all about how you carry yourself, and be aware of wtf is going on around you. ...

All in all, do it if you can, you won't regret it, as long as you stay away from war-torn areas, and keep your wits about you. I lived in a 2 bedroom house with my gf with a huge living room/kitchen, front yard, backyard, gated driveway, and we paid 1200 combined for 3 months. You can live so large and save a ton, do it for a year or two and then figure out what is next, you may surprise yourself.

I'll second this. Been to SA and worked briefly along eastern coast country.

Definitely "its all about how you carry yourself, and be aware of wtf is going on around you." If you're a smart traveller this is the best advice you will see re Africa.

Keep in mind that SA is reputably the wealthiest part of the entire continent, so Happy your experience in other parts will differ. You'll be equidistant from SA and Congo, so that's something to think about (cph might know smth here, i don't know what ops are going on there still)

Also, regarding AIDS, jokes aside, there are shocking stats of AIDS incidence in that continent.

Those figures look understated to 4 years ago. but if you take the 20% incidence, that's almost like saying one out of every five women can give you aids. even on the conservative end it's just not worth it.

It is a real concern and was on my mind every time I went out for drinks. It is absolutely not worth it having a fling and effectively killing your life. Your libido will be your enemy over time, so if you're single you need to make sure you keep that in check before 'slaying any box'.

the country is otherwise amazing.

hope it pans out mate

 
IlliniProgrammer:
(new job adjustment factor) + (Premium for working in Zambia and getting curfewed at 10 PM).
Yea, that's where I am running into trouble.
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
IlliniProgrammer:
(Current Spending Rate) * (Africa Cost of Living)/(New York Cost of Living) + (Current Salary- Current Spend Rate)*(new job adjustment factor) + (Premium for working in Zambia and getting curfewed at 10 PM).

*AIDS premium.

Happy, that is a really tough question. In my mind it is going to depend on what the job description entails, how sophisticated this operation is going to be and what the company is willing to provide in the way of housing, medical insurance (with medevac included), transportation. Like some others outlined, these are often things provided by companies that bring expats to certain countries...they problem I see here is that the fund isn't going to be your traditional international conglomerate...so they will have constraints on what they will/can provide.

Do you have an idea of what the job is going to entail?

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

They are already there and fairly established. I think this whole thing might be a bit premature on my part, I really don't have nearly the amount of information I need to make an intelligent determination at this point.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

apes - Zimbabwe government, how could people possibly nationalise anything? genocide - i see no fun poking sir just a witty remark, if that offends you try not being bitchy about it

at first the OP was not sure if the job was in Zimbabwe or Zambia

 

Listen maktec5 by arguing with you I've already spent far too much time on some irrelevant topic and you obviously have strong feelings for it or Zimbabwe or whatever I don't really care. Either drop the bias or stop wasting time turning this into some kind of historical payback.

 

He had reasons to take land but they were not justifiable... Hitler had reasons to kill jews... everybody has reasons to take action and the reasons are usually founded on perceived unfairness.

Its nationalisation and I find it resentful that you refer to it as "taking land from whites", that is important only if you are racist, he took land from landowners.

 
thor1000:
He had reasons to take land but they were not justifiable... Hitler had reasons to kill jews... everybody has reasons to take action and the reasons are usually founded on perceived unfairness.

Its nationalisation and I find it resentful that you refer to it as "taking land from whites", that is important only if you are racist, he took land from landowners.

Wow, you have no education whatsoever do you? You just compared Hitler to Mugabe and the racial objectives of National Socialism to ZANU's policy of redistributing land which was not owned by white farmers and industrialists but SEIZED during the process of colonial rule.

You may not be aware of the obvious but there were no caucasians in Africa 400 years ago. In subsequent centuries and decades of colonization, no land was legally purchased; other than small concessions given up by colluding native forces such as the Aro Confederacy. The white farmers did not own the land, and therefore hold no claim to it other than the obvious multi-generational occupation of said land.

So to recap, Britain raided Rhodesia for natural resources and labor for 300 odd years, left and in turn destroyed a large portion of colonial physical infrastructure, manipulated post-colonial politics for another 20 years and then continued to have "claim" to he most profitable and arable farmland and industrial locations.

You also clearly don't know that most whites and Indians left Zimbabwe in the 20 years before the official expulsion as ZANU had clearly declared its position on land "ownership" by foreigners. The only reason they stayed until the end is that they believed the "righteous west" would intervene as usual to protect its sovereign interest over the resources of others.

Trust me kid, I know more than you EVER will about my continent. Don't EVER compare Nazis to freedom fighters. And please keep your ignorance buried deep in the European psyche where it belongs.

‎"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns or dollars."
 
thor1000:
He had reasons to take land but they were not justifiable... Hitler had reasons to kill jews... everybody has reasons to take action and the reasons are usually founded on perceived unfairness.

Its nationalisation and I find it resentful that you refer to it as "taking land from whites", that is important only if you are racist, he took land from landowners.

Who owned and worked the land for nearly 100 years.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Independent Gestion, 78% of all the land, seized from white farmers, was purchased by the white farmers. Mugabe should be shot.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 
eokpar02:
Independent Gestion, 78% of all the land, seized from white farmers, was purchased by the white farmers. Mugabe should be shot.

Good Lord, you know it's a rough day when eokpar02 and I end up on the same page. LOL.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

I won't change to be an internet social norm. I won't be a cyber Uncle Tom. I'm a proud African and my continent has it's flaws as does any other. The level of ignorance and foolishness on this thread is shocking and as such I'm done. I have been to 40+ African nations, have lived there, and I know the best and the worst of it.

Happy, I wish you the best of luck and think it would be great if you have the opportunity to work in Zambia. It's a beautiful nation with beautiful people and I don't doubt you can find fantastic undervalued investment opportunities throughout sub-saharan Africa.

@ blackfinancier: You are 19. You don't know what I know about Africa. I don't argue with you when there is something you know more than me about. That's it. Cheers.

@ eokpar2: I'm aware of that statistic, but "bought" at what price at what time under what circumstances/

Be well,

IG

‎"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns or dollars."
 
Independent Gestion:
Happy, I wish you the best of luck and think it would be great if you have the opportunity to work in Zambia. It's a beautiful nation with beautiful people and I don't doubt you can find fantastic undervalued investment opportunities throughout sub-saharan Africa.
Thanks man, I'll keep you posted
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
Independent Gestion:
I won't change to be an internet social norm. I won't be a cyber Uncle Tom. I'm a proud African and my continent has it's flaws as does any other. The level of ignorance and foolishness on this thread is shocking and as such I'm done. I have been to 40+ African nations, have lived there, and I know the best and the worst of it.

Happy, I wish you the best of luck and think it would be great if you have the opportunity to work in Zambia. It's a beautiful nation with beautiful people and I don't doubt you can find fantastic undervalued investment opportunities throughout sub-saharan Africa.

@ blackfinancier: You are 19. You don't know what I know about Africa. I don't argue with you when there is something you know more than me about. That's it. Cheers.

@ eokpar2: I'm aware of that statistic, but "bought" at what price at what time under what circumstances/

Be well,

IG

First off, I'm not even 19..lol where you got that from not sure. Secondly, what does being proud of Africa and its flaws since when is it good to be proud of flaws... that just means you accept them and you refuse to change them...How is it ok to be proud of genocide, or of widespread diseases or lack of basic modern comforts...I travelled to Nigeria 9 years ago. When I was in the village my mom came from I still used the restroom outside.... yet down the street a political leader lived in an estate.... how is that something to be proud of?

I don't know if you watch Monday Night Football but, COME ON MAN.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee WSO is not your personal search function.
 
Independent Gestion:
I won't change to be an internet social norm. I won't be a cyber Uncle Tom. I'm a proud African and my continent has it's flaws as does any other. The level of ignorance and foolishness on this thread is shocking and as such I'm done. I have been to 40+ African nations, have lived there, and I know the best and the worst of it.

Happy, I wish you the best of luck and think it would be great if you have the opportunity to work in Zambia. It's a beautiful nation with beautiful people and I don't doubt you can find fantastic undervalued investment opportunities throughout sub-saharan Africa.

@ blackfinancier: You are 19. You don't know what I know about Africa. I don't argue with you when there is something you know more than me about. That's it. Cheers.

@ eokpar2: I'm aware of that statistic, but "bought" at what price at what time under what circumstances/

Be well,

IG

IG, there is no way any reasonable person could defend Mugabe. Mugabe, with his thugs, beat and tortured supporters of the opposing party subsequent to his defeat. He isn't and shouldn't be the vanguard of his country. He lost the election. He is a petty thug governing a country that has had its life expectancy halved! Zimbabweans flee to Mozambique and South Africa.

In regards to the land thievery, most of that land was bought from the government of Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe used to produce enough food to feed 300 million people; now they have to beg for food from their former colonial masters. Mugabe, instead of using that land to feed his people, has given it away to officers in his military and his goons.

Zimbabwe has gone to shit, all because of Mugabe.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 

Yes that is a wonderful text but I don't know why you keep saying white farmers.. they are just farmers, who own land, so you could say rich farmers, whose rights have been brutally taken away beacuse of some national propaganda.

And don't bring up 400 year old history, people do that because they are in need of material to justify their prejudice or hate, both of which you have in abundance. Like I said before drop the payback time act, because that is the exact same propaganda the communists used in eastern europe to take land from capitalists and landowners. Europe has been through this sort of ideological bullshit of who started it first.

Being stuck in the past, just makes your future that more hopeless. We've all been exploited at one time or another, most never get redemption, those who do, get it at the expence of their own future.

 

I seriously can't believe someone who lived in Africa is defending Mugabe.... that is utterly unbelievable.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee WSO is not your personal search function.
 

Yo Happy that really does sound like the tits, I'd be interested to hear how it works out.

@IG You sound educated and make some good points, but if you really cared that much about the continent of Africa, then you wouldn't condone all the bad that goes on there. It is abundantly clear that Mugabe is evil, I'm not sure how you justify anything he's done.

 

For those of you who haven't seen "God Grew Tired of Us", you should check it out. It's a great documentary about the Lost Boys of Sudan. Some of it's actually rather funny from the point of view of an American...it's like Crocidile Dundee meets Coming to America...but most of it is rather moving.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

From someone who has lived in Africa for a long time, and been mugged etc, here is what WSO monkeys worried about crime need to do if they go to 3rd world countries:

Eat a teaspoon of cement, and harden the fuck up.

I know many of you grew up being protected by mall cops and whatnot, but seriously, it does you good to know you have to keep your wits about and be ready to defend yourself. Go read the man week articles again, and you will see the older guys have learned this lesson.

 

Was in Cape Town for a week and then traveled the Garden Route for another week and everything was incredible... Literally from NYC all things considered it may be a cheaper trip to go there and hit up Cape Town/Stellenbosch then it would to head out to San Fran/Napa for a week and would be way more fun/less stuffy... and the animals you can see on safari are unreal.

If anybody knows any decent funds that are in/around Cape Town please PM me.

 

Corrupt like the rest of Africa, have you not seen Nigeria?

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

^Sure, of course. But there was hope, especially 10 years ago that SA could set an example for the rest of sub-Saharan Africa. I don't see that happening now.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.
 

I just do not invest in Africa for this reason...even in SA, the political risks are enormous. You can make the same argument about some South American countries.

I have long resisted investing in Russia due to corruption, but at least they are consistent. Businesses basically know what the political and regulatory landscape will look like.

 

SA = Rhodesia? My old boss disagreed, thought stakes were too high. But the trend is definitely there. Also really interested in answers to this question, particularly from locals with some global macro experience.

 
EURCHF parity:
SA = Rhodesia? My old boss disagreed, thought stakes were too high. But the trend is definitely there. Also really interested in answers to this question, particularly from locals with some global macro experience.

I think it's a fair comparison. I'm not a local, but I have a lot of family there (they're Dutch, not English). My cousins, 2nd cousins, etc., are all leaving because they feel the country is imploding. They can get easy visas to the UK, Australia, and here so most aren't sticking around.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.
 

Isn't the unemployment rate there like 25% + in South Africa ?? The Brics countries are kind of a joke IMO, there's no way that I could see India, Brazil or South Africa becoming equivalent to a western European country or America/Canada even given a 100 years, too much unemployment/poverty/too large of a population. Russia is going to remain similar to the rest of the Eastern bloc, and a few southern countries like Spain and Greece as a second tier nation. China has the potential to become equivalent to South Korea/Japan due to their authoritarian government and I would invest heavily there as economic growth is their 1st, second and third main priority. South Korea/Taiwan IMO will catchup and have equivalent living standards to the 1st Tier countries like the U.S. within 20 years or so, maybe even exceeding them due to their insane emphasis on education, low birthrate, and low levels of poverty and unemployment.

 

I have always lurked in these forums for great finance information but as a South African university student i had to setup an account to reply to this. I appreciate your input Kenny but as you have stated above you are not a local and you might not understand everything that goes on. Zuma is a questionable figure to some South Africans too but his re-election does not mean that South Africa will become the next Zimbabwe. The ruling ANC party here does not even wish to engage in nationalisation policies.

You also mentioned that you have family emigrating.That is true as the white population in South Africa is declining at a rate of 0.3% every 5 years but the rest of the population is increasing. One of the main reasons for the decline is the Affirmative Action policies implemented after Apartheid ended which leaves some white people afraid of career progression in South Africa and fears over crime. Whites make up 8% of the population yet they hold 70% of management jobs so AA policies are needed to even things out over time.

There is lots of opportunity for all in this country and i acknowledge that there are many issues but the talk of an implosion is reckless.

 
Baseline220:
I have always lurked in these forums for great finance information but as a South African university student i had to setup an account to reply to this. I appreciate your input Kenny but as you have stated above you are not a local and you might not understand everything that goes on. Zuma is a questionable figure to some South Africans too but his re-election does not mean that South Africa will become the next Zimbabwe. The ruling ANC party here does not even wish to engage in nationalisation policies.

You also mentioned that you have family emigrating.That is true as the white population in South Africa is declining at a rate of 0.3% every 5 years but the rest of the population is increasing. One of the main reasons for the decline is the Affirmative Action policies implemented after Apartheid ended which leaves some white people afraid of career progression in South Africa and fears over crime. Whites make up 8% of the population yet they hold 70% of management jobs so AA policies are needed to even things out over time.

There is lots of opportunity for all in this country and i acknowledge that there are many issues but the talk of an implosion is reckless.

I understand your opinion, but have to disagree with what you are saying. I think what this proves is that whoever is up for the ANC election will be elected, regardless of who they are (Zuma). And anytime you have a one-party 'democracy', it's a dangerous thing. I think saying that SA will be the next Zimbabwe is a bit of a stretch, but not because it can't happen, I think at this rate it will just take longer. Zuma has proven to be poor for the economy overall and is very pro-nationalization, in addition to being undeniably corrupt.

On to the social side of what you're saying, I don't have a lot to counter because I don't know enough. I know my family there is considering moving as the murder rate of white farmers is very high, apparently it's much more dangerous for white people outside of urban areas/Western Cape.

I'm sure there is a lot of opportunity there now, but I just wonder whether or not it will stay like that. It's an anemic world economy and SA clearly is not electing great people to run the country.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.
 

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The hills are alive with the sound of horsepower! - Jeremy Clarkson
 

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