Please DO NOT Hire Me

The boards have got me thinking the last few days. Lots of anger about seemingly trivial issues. Some harsh words from opposite sides of the ideological isle.

A deeper scratch beneath the surface, reveals an uncertainty that most of us are not familiar with. The Titanic is drifting along, we don't see land, but we sense the iceberg.

In a must read from yesterday's WSJ, Michael P. Fleischer breaks down the rationale of cash hoarding employers who refuse to hire and why the trend will continue.

So simple, we can all agree with the premise and succinct rationale. The welfare state has simply made hiring, unprofitable.

I spent many years as an entrepreneur. Over those years meeting many business owners, the real backbone of America's economy. A few swashbuckling VC types, but mostly mom and pop types...concerned citizens and pillars of their respective communities.

Every single one, down to the last...echoes the sentiments of Mr. Fleischer...verbatim.

Once you've sat in the big leather chair, you know what worker bees don't. You really do "pay the cost to be the boss". Even though you feed and clothe your community, in times of struggle...you are treated like the villain.

What we are seeing today is the quiet stand of capitalism. The laws of economics and common sense unwilling to public to populist political pressure, simply because they are no longer able.

Try to understand guys...this isn't about party affiliation. It is about reality, the reality that a gaping wound cannot be fixed with a band-aid. The reality that prosperity and growth are the direct result of motivation. You kill motivation, you kill prosperity and growth.

Ending on a personal note. I grew up all over the world and went to school in half a dozen different social, political and economic environments. I can confidently say that every world region and individual country (by extension) has its own educational mission. Their "vision for the future" for their young minds, if you will...

What I remember most from my public school education in the United States is the endless vilification of three men.

John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie and Joseph McCarthy.

The two most successful businessmen and greatest anti-communist.

Two hideous monsters and a mad man.

Consider the implications on a young mind. Especially those of you who still are young minds.

Think about your own motivation and what it means that you are here on this site...

Now think about those who are more then content to live off of your hard work...

I'm Midas Magoo...and I am becoming more and more accepting of the notion that it is your job, to support me.

 

Here's the full story. Worthy of read and definitely...thought.

Why I'm Not Hiring

When you add it all up, it costs $74,000 to put $44,000 in Sally's pocket and to give her $12,000 in benefits.

By MICHAEL P. FLEISCHER

With unemployment just under 10% and companies sitting on their cash, you would think that sooner or later job growth would take off. I think it's going to be later—much later. Here's why.

Meet Sally (not her real name; details changed to preserve privacy). Sally is a terrific employee, and she happens to be the median person in terms of base pay among the 83 people at my little company in New Jersey, where we provide audio systems for use in educational, commercial and industrial settings. She's been with us for over 15 years. She's a high school graduate with some specialized training. She makes $59,000 a year—on paper. In reality, she makes only $44,000 a year because $15,000 is taken from her thanks to various deductions and taxes, all of which form the steep, sad slope between gross and net pay.

Daniel Henninger discusses how Robert Rubin and Alan Greenspan agree that Americans should send more of their paychecks to Washington. Also, Fannie and Freddie ask for more cash within weeks of an Obama pledge to end taxpayer rescues.

Before that money hits her bank, it is reduced by the $2,376 she pays as her share of the medical and dental insurance that my company provides. And then the government takes its due. She pays $126 for state unemployment insurance, $149 for disability insurance and $856 for Medicare. That's the small stuff. New Jersey takes $1,893 in income taxes. The federal government gets $3,661 for Social Security and another $6,250 for income tax withholding. The roughly $13,000 taken from her by various government entities means that some 22% of her gross pay goes to Washington or Trenton. She's lucky she doesn't live in New York City, where the toll would be even higher.

Employing Sally costs plenty too. My company has to write checks for $74,000 so Sally can receive her nominal $59,000 in base pay. Health insurance is a big, added cost: While Sally pays nearly $2,400 for coverage, my company pays the rest—$9,561 for employee/spouse medical and dental. We also provide company-paid life and other insurance premiums amounting to $153. Altogether, company-paid benefits add $9,714 to the cost of employing Sally.

Then the federal and state governments want a little something extra. They take $56 for federal unemployment coverage, $149 for disability insurance, $300 for workers' comp and $505 for state unemployment insurance. Finally, the feds make me pay $856 for Sally's Medicare and $3,661 for her Social Security.

When you add it all up, it costs $74,000 to put $44,000 in Sally's pocket and to give her $12,000 in benefits. Bottom line: Governments impose a 33% surtax on Sally's job each year.

Because my company has been conscripted by the government and forced to serve as a tax collector, we have lost control of a big chunk of our cost structure. Tax increases, whether cloaked as changes in unemployment or disability insurance, Medicare increases or in any other form can dramatically alter our financial situation. With government spending and deficits growing as fast as they have been, you know that more tax increases are coming—for my company, and even for Sally too.

Companies have also been pressed into serving as providers of health insurance. In a saner world, health insurance would be something that individuals buy for themselves and their families, just as they do with auto insurance. Now, adding to the insanity, there is ObamaCare.

Every year, we negotiate a renewal to our health coverage. This year, our provider demanded a 28% increase in premiums—for a lesser plan. This is in part a tax increase that the federal government has co-opted insurance providers to collect. We had never faced an increase anywhere near this large; in each of the last two years, the increase was under 10%.

To offset tax increases and steepening rises in health-insurance premiums, my company needs sustainably higher profits and sales—something unlikely in this "summer of recovery." We can't pass the additional costs onto our customers, because the market is too tight and we'd lose sales. Only governments can raise prices repeatedly and pretend there will be no consequences.

And even if the economic outlook were more encouraging, increasing revenues is always uncertain and expensive. As much as I might want to hire new salespeople, engineers and marketing staff in an effort to grow, I would be increasing my company's vulnerability to government decisions to raise taxes, to policies that make health insurance more expensive, and to the difficulties of this economic environment.

A life in business is filled with uncertainties, but I can be quite sure that every time I hire someone my obligations to the government go up. From where I sit, the government's message is unmistakable: Creating a new job carries a punishing price.

Mr. Fleischer is president of Bogen Communications Inc. in Ramsey, N.J.

 
Edmundo Braverman:
Drew Stockton:
I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

Hey guys, we've got a Lit major on the site!

Just kidding, bro. We're all a bunch of closet Randians around here.

Waiting for Hollywood to bastardize my baby ...but in the meanwhile I am flattered to see who they have playing "me", big fan.

Btw, Uncle Eddie I was gonna say which character you remind me of...but notice...he's not in the cast...

 

No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

 
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

This is an excellent point. But let's try to keep party affiliation out of it. It is interesting that our fiercest competitors are moving closer to the original American model...as we move away from it.

 
Midas Mulligan Magoo:
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

This is an excellent point. But let's try to keep party affiliation out of it. It is interesting that our fiercest competitors are moving closer to the original American model...as we move away from it.

Yes, I personally will most likely gain 2-3 years experience here and then I'm moving to the MENA region. My 35 year old director worked 8-4 and made about 400k non taxable in a bad economy, 400k is an awesome amount of spending power in numerous areas there - You can rent a great villa for about $3500.

 
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

and where is this place? tell me because I do not believe you

 
awp:
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

and where is this place? tell me because I do not believe you

The UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain don't have any taxes. It's common knowledge. I'm quite sure the no taxation policy implemented throughout most of the region. In Jordan you don't pay taxes on investment gains from what my uncle told me.

 
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.
How does one obtain employmentf in the middle east? Do you need to be sponsored?
~If money could talk, it would say "goodbye".
 
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

Err... I used to have a driver (~$1000p.m), Maid (~$300p.m) and Cook (~$200p.m) during the time I used to reside in Dubai.

I win here, I win there...
 
arbitRAGE.:
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

Err... I used to have a driver (~$1000p.m), Maid (~$300p.m) and Cook (~$200p.m) during the time I used to reside in Dubai.

Dubai was more expensive than most MENA region countries back in the boom times though, no?

 
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

You should probably go back and ask your driver, maid, and cook about their quality of life. Taxes provide valuable underfunded social goods (public education anyone?).

I'm sure it's great to be king in the middle east but what about all of the servants.

 
The Biz Kid:
CNB90:
No taxes in the middle east, you can even have a driver, maid, and cook and they wouldn't cost you more than $650 each per month. Barring the 100% extreme and egregious Saudi Arabia, the rest of the MENA region countries are quite the dream for most republicans and free market advocates. Heck, where I interned insider information was barely illegal.

You should probably go back and ask your driver, maid, and cook about their quality of life. Taxes provide valuable underfunded social goods (public education anyone?).

I'm sure it's great to be king in the middle east but what about all of the servants.

1 - Oil revenue more than compensates for the lack of taxation. 2- sure I will, I'll ask the Indian fellow I pay $500 a month what it was like to starve in the slums of Mumbai while he helps him self to the lunch my cook, whom also hails from the same situation, prepared for him with my blessing. No one is recruiting these people from Universities, this is the best thing that could ever happen to them. Heck, pretty sure $500 is the equivalent of 1200-1600 in Indian spending power, if not more. Sorry but that comment was truly poorly thought. The beauty of capitalism is that everyone, in one way or another, will benefit. My aunt is Romanian and lived under socialist rule and she would attest to that.

 

No offense guys, but Rand is a pretty shitty philosopher, a hypocrite, and her books aren't literary classics. She didnt understand the philosophy that came before her, and she hated Kant, Plato, and Descartes (along with a score of other philosophers). So she hates one of philosophies founders, the founder of modern philosophy, and the greatest metaphysical philosopher.

 
soitwouldseem:
No offense guys, but Rand is a pretty shitty philosopher, a hypocrite, and her books aren't literary classics. She didnt understand the philosophy that came before her, and she hated Kant, Plato, and Descartes (along with a score of other philosophers). So she hates one of philosophies founders, the founder of modern philosophy, and the greatest metaphysical philosopher.

Now we really do have a Lit major here!

I'm not going to pretend that I know or care much about philosophy. The people I know who love philosophy (soitwouldseem included) think her efforts in philosophy were a joke.

But ragging on her books and claiming they aren't literary classics is just not accurate. I guess if you judge literary classics by whether or not they were included next to Huck Finn and Moby Dick on your HS reading list, then they aren't. But based on the lasting impact her books made on the people who read them, I would argue that they are more influential and greater classics then the works of the great philosophers and the standard American "classics". The Library of Congress ranked Atlas Shrugged as the #2 most influential book of all time, behind the Bible.

The people on here are some of the most driven and successful individuals, and the most capable wealth-makers in society today. Day after day on this site I see little testaments and shout-outs to Rand that show all these smart and driven guys are really Randophiles at heart. We have confidence in our ability to think and reason, and want anything illogical or immoral to get the hell out of our way. Rand's impact on this influential demographic should serve as some proof of the quality of her works.

 
Drew Stockton:

But ragging on her books and claiming they aren't literary classics is just not accurate. I guess if you judge literary classics by whether or not they were included next to Huck Finn and Moby Dick on your HS reading list, then they aren't. But based on the lasting impact her books made on the people who read them, I would argue that they are more influential and greater classics then the works of the great philosophers and the standard American "classics". The Library of Congress ranked Atlas Shrugged as the #2 most influential book of all time, behind the Bible.

The people on here are some of the most driven and successful individuals, and the most capable wealth-makers in society today. Day after day on this site I see little testaments and shout-outs to Rand that show all these smart and driven guys are really Randophiles at heart. We have confidence in our ability to think and reason, and want anything illogical or immoral to get the hell out of our way. Rand's impact on this influential demographic should serve as some proof of the quality of her works.

That was a friggin survey. A bunch of Rand fans kept voting for her book cause they have nothing better to do. That shows how poorly read Rand fans are. I could name scores of books that are more influential. Literary classics are classics because of their depth of perception into the human condition, the motivating factors in individuals lives, the beauty of the prose, etc. Rand is full of unsystematic angry rantings that is quite boring to read, and is not sad or beautiful or witty or really much of anything.

 
Midas Mulligan Magoo:
John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie and Joseph McCarthy.

The two most successful businessmen and greatest anti-communist.

Two hideous monsters and a mad man.

Consider the implications on a young mind. Especially those of you who still are young minds.

This might be the most ignorant thing I've read on this board with respect to McCarthy. The man wasn't an anti-communist, he was a populist fear monger who ruined good upstanding American's lives, lied in committee, trampled the Bill of Rights and falsified his military record to accrue medals he wasn't qualified for since he was a POG intelligence officer during WWII. Many of the people he railroaded out of the State Department were experts on south east Asia who could have brought Ho Chi Minh into the fold instead of driving him into the Chinese and Russian's arms (the Vietnamese played the Star Spangled Banner when they read their declaration of independence and were largely pro-American in 1940s). The guy was a monster only interested in his own political gain and his stand against communism was no different than the same politicians today who demonize the banking industry for political gain, only they aren't getting people thrown in jail and jeopardize the immediate national security of this country.

I realize this wasn't your thesis, but it does detract from your argument substantially.

 
Aggravate:
Midas Mulligan Magoo:
John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie and Joseph McCarthy.

The two most successful businessmen and greatest anti-communist.

Two hideous monsters and a mad man.

Consider the implications on a young mind. Especially those of you who still are young minds.

This might be the most ignorant thing I've read on this board with respect to McCarthy. The man wasn't an anti-communist, he was a populist fear monger who ruined good upstanding American's lives, lied in committee, trampled the Bill of Rights and falsified his military record to accrue medals he wasn't qualified for since he was a POG intelligence officer during WWII. Many of the people he railroaded out of the State Department were experts on south east Asia who could have brought Ho Chi Minh into the fold instead of driving him into the Chinese and Russian's arms (the Vietnamese played the Star Spangled Banner when they read their declaration of independence and were largely pro-American in 1940s). The guy was a monster only interested in his own political gain and his stand against communism was no different than the same politicians today who demonize the banking industry for political gain, only they aren't getting people thrown in jail and jeopardize the immediate national security of this country.

I realize this wasn't your thesis, but it does detract from your argument substantially.

Read for content, not for your tidbits which suit your own agenda. The American public education system is vehemently leftist and espouses a great many socialist ideals on young and impressionable American minds. To shit on Joe McCarthy or any other politican doesn't require much gravitas, after all if they were choir boys, they wouldn't be in Washington.

My point is that the term "McCarthyism" has its roots in the notion that calling someone a communist automatically makes you a raving lunatic. Just like calling any black person lazy makes you racist or like saying that marriage is between a man and a woman means you suffer from homophobia. These are leftist propaganda methods more at home in 1910's Moscow, then 2010's New York or D.C.

The point is that capitalism is indirectly (via constant anti big business clucking) attacked and communism indirectly (via the methods I just described) excused throughout our educational system.

These are tiny little examples. Engage in the discussion instead of trying to burn the house down. Fight the knee jerk liberal within.

 
Midas Mulligan Magoo:

Read for content, not for your tidbits which suit your own agenda. The American public education system is vehemently leftist and espouses a great many socialist ideals on young and impressionable American minds. To shit on Joe McCarthy or any other politican doesn't require much gravitas, after all if they were choir boys, they wouldn't be in Washington.

My point is that the term "McCarthyism" has its roots in the notion that calling someone a communist automatically makes you a raving lunatic. Just like calling any black person lazy makes you racist or like saying that marriage is between a man and a woman means you suffer from homophobia. These are leftist propaganda methods more at home in 1910's Moscow, then 2010's New York or D.C.

The point is that capitalism is indirectly (via constant anti big business clucking) attacked and communism indirectly (via the methods I just described) excused throughout our educational system.

These are tiny little examples. Engage in the discussion instead of trying to burn the house down. Fight the knee jerk liberal within.

Midas, I will have to challenge you on this one. While it ended several years ago, I can recall public education being rather moderate. I, on one occasion, tore my AP history teacher a new one for stating the logical fallacy, that Reagan won the cold war by making Russia spend lots of money. I can recall, learning that America was a Christian country and other tidbits of conservative thinking.

You may think Carnegie, Rockefeller and McCarthy are demonized, but with a perfunctory glance at my history book I can tell you that a history student only hears about these names for a few minutes during an entire semester. The term McCarthyism has very little to do communism; McCarthyism is the political action of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.

And enough with this capitalism under siege straw man. Who the fuck is attacking big business? I am serious, who? It is definitely not Congress since they gave insurance companies a massive handout with the public mandate. Pharmaceutical companies are granted a monopoly to produce drugs. Massive farms are given billion dollars to leave their fields fallow.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment. -Styles P
 

This doesn't even mention self-employment. I'm a budding real estate entrepreneur (company), and my quick analysis a while back indicated that my state and federal tax rate (including payroll taxes) as a self-employed person would run about 40% if I made the modest sum of $125,000 per year, although I think after some deductions of state taxes it would be in the neighborhood of 36%. Keep in mind that I hang my hat in a relatively low-tax state of Virginia and this doesn't include any kind of property tax or sales or gas taxes. Tack on another 4-5% for those things.

When I started reading about the tax code for the self-employed, my initial reaction was, "man, is this even worth it?" Not only are taxes high but they're incredibly burdensome and mind-numbing. The tax code is WAY too complicated. Add in another $1-2k to have a professional do my SMALL company's taxes. And there are no ethical loopholes around the tax code for the most part--the 1+ million words of the IRS tax code has thought of damn near everything--just look at the rules surrounding UBIT, IRAs, Solo 401(k)s, C-corps, S-corps, LLCs, sole proprietorships, totally arbitrary formulas for the self-employment tax, arbitrary deductions, standard deduction, itemization, etc.

Array
 

The grandest irony of all is traditionally socialist Europe, the one that Obama gets a hardon for, is moving more towards a free market, as we step towards socialism. We really need minarchy ala Anarchy, State and Utopia. The government needs to let capitalism be a little more wild west. Remember America's growth into industrial power house took place under minimal regulation and it's decline will occur under strict regulation.

 

Yeah, they don't pay taxes because of oil wealth or the fact that the people have jack shit say in things. You pay no taxes you get no voice.

Working in the ME is great, but in Dubai for example you need to be sponsored by a citizen. That costs money. So while it is not officially a tax it basically acts like a yearly tax. Plus it is incredibly had to become citizens of those countries so what are you going to do, be an expat for life?

Midas, absolutely loving your posts more and more. Bosses are wonderful when they are hiring and horrible when they are firing.Can't win. What always amazes me is the fact that people can never place themselves in another persons shoes. Oh well, I would rather fire then be fired.

 
Anthony .:
Yeah, they don't pay taxes because of oil wealth or the fact that the people have jack shit say in things. You pay no taxes you get no voice.

Working in the ME is great, but in Dubai for example you need to be sponsored by a citizen. That costs money. So while it is not officially a tax it basically acts like a yearly tax. Plus it is incredibly had to become citizens of those countries so what are you going to do, be an expat for life?

Midas, absolutely loving your posts more and more. Bosses are wonderful when they are hiring and horrible when they are firing.Can't win. What always amazes me is the fact that people can never place themselves in another persons shoes. Oh well, I would rather fire then be fired.

Actually, I think the company that hires you sponsors you. Plus, you can get a permanent residence status card. The GCC, for example, is largely populated by people from the surrounding countries, such as Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon. In fact, those people stay there for generations. Trust me, as a westerner your very well liked and appreciated. In their eyes, you are the prime candidate - I lived in one of those countries for the first 14 years of my life, this is what I collected in perception and information. Where I interned the head of IB was an American Wharton alum, and other directors generally had the same qualifications and backgrounds: American/Canadian/British - Wharton, MIT, Oxford/ BB experience in NY/London/Toronto etc. It's much more friendly and open to expats than you think - expats drive their economies growth.

 
Anthony .:
Yeah, they don't pay taxes because of oil wealth or the fact that the people have jack shit say in things. You pay no taxes you get no voice.

Working in the ME is great, but in Dubai for example you need to be sponsored by a citizen. That costs money. So while it is not officially a tax it basically acts like a yearly tax. Plus it is incredibly had to become citizens of those countries so what are you going to do, be an expat for life?

Midas, absolutely loving your posts more and more. Bosses are wonderful when they are hiring and horrible when they are firing.Can't win. What always amazes me is the fact that people can never place themselves in another persons shoes. Oh well, I would rather fire then be fired.

Thanks Tone. Two way street my man. I actually see a lot of the idealism of Atlas's main characters in your writing and approach to dealing with the people on this site. Love the fact that you proud of your country, as well.

 

[quote=Edmundo Braverman]Just came across the counterpoint to the OP. Maybe unemployment is high because the jobs suck:

http://www.slate.com/id/2263335/[/quote]

Part of life is doing things you don't want to do.

Yes, some of the jobs might be awful, but I don't want to pay the government more every year because people are inconvenienced/lazy.

To digress a bit, this reminds me of the whole uproar about illegals taking jobs then people realizing those jobs were beneath them...

 

wow... I had p[art of that in my mind because I truly believe that America has just become too much of a welfare state but when u bring up the education part it clicks in my mind.. Great post and point

 
2007Grad:
All Obama supporters should be shot.

Agreed, we should elect a rightful Republican president and congress. Then, we should have them pass a bill that kills all those damn Obama supporters. That will teach those damn socialists from abusing the constitution and increasing the powers of government! I like your style.

"If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars." - J. Paul Getty
 
Midas Mulligan Magoo:
Taylor Schilling...wtf...more like Curt Schilling...I would go with Julianne Moore sucked dry by a mandatory 6 month heroin pre-hab.

Also, Barney Frank as Jim Taggart and The Pelosinator as Lillian Rearden, then I could rest easy.

Add Krugman as Dr. Stadler.

I think they're planning for the movie to be a trilogy, and only Galt's back will be shown in the first one. Agreed that this movie will probably blow though.

Are you sure you didn't plan for this post to be about ME taxes and Rand discussions, Magoo?

 
Drew Stockton:
Midas Mulligan Magoo:
Taylor Schilling...wtf...more like Curt Schilling...I would go with Julianne Moore sucked dry by a mandatory 6 month heroin pre-hab.

Also, Barney Frank as Jim Taggart and The Pelosinator as Lillian Rearden, then I could rest easy.

Add Krugman as Dr. Stadler.

I think they're planning for the movie to be a trilogy, and only Galt's back will be shown in the first one. Agreed that this movie will probably blow though.

Are you sure you didn't plan for this post to be about ME taxes and Rand discussions, Magoo?

Ok. That makes more sense. A trilogy could make a quality presentation feasible.

Lmao...yes,Drew...my master plan is to raise an army of frustrated hyper capitalist ex-pats in the middle of the Saudi desert, who will then return to take over America with the money we saved on taxable income...we will then repopulate with a bunch of twisted Eastern Euro broads with delusions of grandeur and histories of abuse by their KGB dads...but my peons can enjoy the riches...I just want to force Mikhail Moore on to a crash diet of green veggies and The Pelosinator to change her sex back to female.

 

As long as America has immigration laws that encourage hard working individuals to migrate to this country and provide the infrastructure to help these people get their idea off the ground, it will remain near the top of the economic totem pole.

 

Excess and no taxes make the middle east a very difficult place to live. Even my friends who are middle-easterners who grew up in North America, are shocked sometimes when they go home and the attitude and mentality of people over there. It really is way back to the roaring 1920s Great Gatsby mentality the US had.

Also it is impossible for any foreigner to own their own property or any business in the middle east. In Dubai my friend's dad who is Iraqi must pay 50% of his profits almost annually to some random Emirate citizen. As well the Dubai/Qatar/Abi Dabhi boom has slowed down, an Emirate I know who went to school in North America had to wait 4 months to land a banking job there, till he got 2 or 3 offers all through family or extended family connections.

I also do not need to get into how the Sheik's are treated compared to everyone else, stories of how my friends brothers could not even look or say something bad to Sheik's kids without fearing death or other severe penalty.

Life has its trade-offs, but moving to basic no-taxes monarchy do not expect your lifestyle to be the same.

 
marcellus_wallace:
Excess and no taxes make the middle east a very difficult place to live. Even my friends who are middle-easterners who grew up in North America, are shocked sometimes when they go home and the attitude and mentality of people over there. It really is way back to the roaring 1920s Great Gatsby mentality the US had.

Also it is impossible for any foreigner to own their own property or any business in the middle east. In Dubai my friend's dad who is Iraqi must pay 50% of his profits almost annually to some random Emirate citizen. As well the Dubai/Qatar/Abi Dabhi boom has slowed down, an Emirate I know who went to school in North America had to wait 4 months to land a banking job there, till he got 2 or 3 offers all through family or extended family connections.

I also do not need to get into how the Sheik's are treated compared to everyone else, stories of how my friends brothers could not even look or say something bad to Sheik's kids without fearing death or other severe penalty.

Life has its trade-offs, but moving to basic no-taxes monarchy do not expect your lifestyle to be the same.

Not sure what you're talking about. In Dubai anyone can have their own business, national or expat, and you don't pay anyone anything. I never ran into any of this shieh stuff you're talking about, I think dramatized your perception.

 

I love the socialist bashing attitude of the post - and of the forum in general. People seem to forget though that socialism is probably one of the greatest inventions of the modern era. Because before that, if you weren't part of a tiny elite, it really sucked to live on this planet. You're out of a job? Tough, you're not getting anything. You're ill? Oops, guess you won't be feeding your family then.

I agree that there is a philosophical discussion to be had regarding welfare redistribution - how much should the rich give back to the poor, how big should the government be, etc. But to systematically deny that a more socialist state can be a good thing is ridiculous.

Now I am not saying that socialism has its failings. It has lots of them; Europe is the perfect example thereof. Too many benefits killed the welfare state. People are regularly abusing the system. There is less and less incentive to work. But that doesn't mean that a relative socialism that is well implemented is a bad thing. The Nordic countries are a good example of this. Extreme capitalism has a shitload of failings too. No model is better than the other - there are only mistakes in implementing the different models.

For the Middle-East lovers, go ahead and live there. But don't be surprised when you get arrested for kissing in public. Don't be surprised when rapists are set free because the girl "dressed in a provocative way". Don't be surprised when you don't have anything to say regarding politics. I'm not saying the ME is a terrible place to live in, but everything comes at a cost.

 

^^^^^ I agree. Give me my crap taxes, rats the size of a chocolate lab and the right to be sh****faced stumbling home....I'd rather be living modest and free in Manhattan than be rolling in dough in Dubai.

As far as unemployed Americans not willing to accept crap jobs....ummm can you blame them. If my unemployment only comes out to $2500 a month, which is already a struggle bc it's half of my income, why would I take a crap job making $1200 a month just to say I'm not on unemployment?! Especially considering that nowdays job offers are based on your most recent salary so if you from 120k to 25k, a new company is going to low ball you bc they see how desperate you are.

 
SCLID:
Midas, I'm too lazy to go back and find it, but in the discussion of Ayn Rand you labeled communism as the "ultimate evil"...really? Nothing to do with genocide, human rights, etc, but an economic system (not a country or a particular leader) is the ultimate evil? Really?

Communism IN PRACTICE encompasses:

1) genocide

2) human rights violations ( I presume that is what you meant?)

3) it is not an economic system... it is a cult that you have no UNDERSTANDING of/EXPERIENCE with

Focus on the caps. Really.

 

While a communist nation (the Soviet Union, e.g.) may have participated in genocide or human rights violations, these are not implicit in the PRACTICE of communism any more than slavery is implicit in the practice of capitalism or democracy, even though slavery was a part of this this country's practice for nearly 100 years.

Communism is by definition an economic system. It is also a political system. There are plenty of peaceful, moral peoples and societies, even within our own, that live by communist principles. I had teachers in grade school that were Catholic nuns. They lived in a communal setting, owned no property, worked for the good of the community and were given an equal square of resources according to their needs. This is definitional communism.

I do not know what your experience is, and I respect your disagreeing with communist economic or political principles (I share that), but to call it the greatest evil seems sensationalist and ignorant.

 
SCLID:
While a communist nation (the Soviet Union, e.g.) may have participated in genocide or human rights violations, these are not implicit in the PRACTICE of communism any more than slavery is implicit in the practice of capitalism or democracy, even though slavery was a part of this this country's practice for nearly 100 years.

Communism is by definition an economic system. It is also a political system. There are plenty of peaceful, moral peoples and societies, even within our own, that live by communist principles. I had teachers in grade school that were Catholic nuns. They lived in a communal setting, owned no property, worked for the good of the community and were given an equal square of resources according to their needs. This is definitional communism.

I do not know what your experience is, and I respect your disagreeing with communist economic or political principles (I share that), but to call it the greatest evil seems sensationalist and ignorant.

Some very good points here, completely agree. Pretty poor post by Midas.

 

Wasn't talking about Dubai actually. Plus, if these guys have better options at home why would they ever come to a place like Dubai? They probably don't. My dad's an engineer, now a project manager, he deals directly with these people and I've been on site a few times, they're not as badly treated as people claim. Most are supplied by Chinese companies btw so getting paid is a more effecient process.

No one claimed these places to be perfect, but if you're college educated, experienced, and smart you will find opportunities. The people I worked with seemed to be content with where they are, the poorer people don't really enjoy all that is offered over there but they don't here either, except for when the American dream realizes its self through the expansion of easy credit and sub prime lenders. We all know how that worked out.

 

"Plus, if these guys have better options at home why would they ever come to a place like Dubai? They probably don't."

You'd think that's the case, but it isn't. The construction companies' agents go to poor places in Asia and Africa offering a wage many multiples higher than what they get at home. They take on debt to travel to Dubai, and then when they get there, their identification is taken, and they end up receiving a wage lower than the one they received at home. Without their identification, they can't go back home.

They're slaves. Dubai was, and is, built by slaves. Section 3:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-…

 

I still don't see why we're focusing on the poor? non of you here are going to be doing any of that, you're going to be working in proper international firms located in Dubai or wherever getting paid handsomely and enjoying what luxuries they have to offer. This is what I was alluding to, as sorry as I feel for these people, their suffrage is no reason for me to pass on a great opportunity. I mean c'mon, these are "emerging markets" they are not perfect, need I remind you what the Americans did to black people for centuries in their "emerging" stage. This is not half as bad. Can't really compare a fully developed nation to a still emerging one.

 
CNB90:
I still don't see why we're focusing on the poor? non of you here are going to be doing any of that, you're going to be working in proper international firms located in Dubai or wherever getting paid handsomely and enjoying what luxuries they have to offer. This is what I was alluding to, as sorry as I feel for these people, their suffrage is no reason for me to pass on a great opportunity. I mean c'mon, these are "emerging markets" they are not perfect, need I remind you what the Americans did to black people for centuries in their "emerging" stage. This is not half as bad. Can't really compare a fully developed nation to a still emerging one.

No shit we wouldn't be apart of that. The problem is living around it. I wouldn't be able to do anything productive knowing that was happening around me (late-night revolution, anyone?). The American comparison is a disgusting one, too. Because we did it makes it forgivable for those doing it now? History is a teacher, not an instruction manual. I would say this is at least half as bad, too. How is it not? The differences are few.

 
ThaVanBurenBoyz:
CNB90:
I still don't see why we're focusing on the poor? non of you here are going to be doing any of that, you're going to be working in proper international firms located in Dubai or wherever getting paid handsomely and enjoying what luxuries they have to offer. This is what I was alluding to, as sorry as I feel for these people, their suffrage is no reason for me to pass on a great opportunity. I mean c'mon, these are "emerging markets" they are not perfect, need I remind you what the Americans did to black people for centuries in their "emerging" stage. This is not half as bad. Can't really compare a fully developed nation to a still emerging one.

No shit we wouldn't be apart of that. The problem is living around it. I wouldn't be able to do anything productive knowing that was happening around me (late-night revolution, anyone?). The American comparison is a disgusting one, too. Because we did it makes it forgivable for those doing it now? History is a teacher, not an instruction manual. I would say this is at least half as bad, too. How is it not? The differences are few.

No you'd rather watch poor people live off your tax dollars whilst continuing to be unproductive and lazy. My dad would answer you with this line: "Oh really, so why do I have engineers begging to come over from Egypt and India and work for $400 a month?" These guys have no other options, period. They are uneducated or are educated but hail from poverty ridden parts of the world, I talked to a few and they told me they make 5X what they could ever wish to make in the slums of India or Egypt. Don't kid your self with this slavery business, they come in droves knowing full well what to expect. Not all of them get treated fairly, but they don't care as long as your paying them. Plus, it's good business..these are private institutions with profitability not charity in mind. Why pay a man $1000 when he's more than willing and happy to work for $250?

 

I'm sorry, I seemed to have forgotten when I said that I supported tax-funded welfare programs in America. Can you help a brother out, and point me to that post?

As for the rest of your post, I think I will trust the journalists (even though I'm a natural skeptic) over some random internet poster with a story or two.

I've provided a source, section iii: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-…. Provide me with one that says these practices are bullshit.

 
Best Response
ThaVanBurenBoyz:
I'm sorry, I seemed to have forgotten when I said that I supported tax-funded welfare programs in America. Can you help a brother out, and point me to that post?

As for the rest of your post, I think I will trust the journalists (even though I'm a natural skeptic) over some random internet poster with a story or two.

I've provided a source, section iii: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-…. Provide me with one that says these practices are bullshit.

My sources are primary rather than secondary. I have numerous relatives and family friends living throughout the GCC and they are all happy and work in great companies that pay them handsomely and provide them with numerous standard benefits. They, however, are better managers of their finances and have the wits to read about the various laws. Debt is not as prevalent, liked, or depended upon on in the ME as it is in NA. Most people, like my relatives, work hard and live within their means rather than taking on debt. The couple in the article clearly made mistakes, it's undeniable that the court system in the ME is still developing. But run ins with the law are easily avoided if you abide by the law. They should have known about the risks of default and the international firm's conduct is a reflection of their own standards rather than that of the country in which they do business, I'm sure he could have sued them if he had adequate documentation. Dubai, however, is a strange tale of excess that would make Lehman seem ultra - conservative. My experiences are in countries like Kuwait and Jordan. But again, I have relatives in Dubai and they are all doing fine, just because some binged on debt and got screwed it doesn't mean everyone there is suffering in the hands of the seemingly irrational local courts.

 

What are you rambling about now? We were talking about the construction slaves, not the perceptions of debt. I even pointed out the section of the article where those practices are discussed.

I only asked of you 2 things:

1) point out where I previously expressed my opinions on tax-funded welfare programs in the U.S. (or were you putting words in my mouth?);

and, 2) please provide a source that refutes the practices illustrated in the article I posted.

 

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