Get Your MBA Immediately After Undergrad?
Should you get your MBA immediately after getting your undergraduate degree? I am thinking about getting it right after I graduate but I was told to get work experience first
Should I Do an MBA right after undergraduate?
An anonymous user shared that you should not get your MBA right away.
No, you should not. Doing something else first, whether that's working at a large company, working at a small company, pursuing some sort of other goals such as an artistic goal or a nonprofit, etc. is a much better use of your time right after college.
Why Should I Wait to Go To Business School?
There are many benefits to waiting two to five years before attending business school:
- You will be able to make a more informed decision regarding whether or not you truly wish to pursue business school.
- You'll have a better understanding of what you want to get out of business school
- It will give you the personal perspective to know what sorts of people you want to spend time with during your post-grad.
- You'll have real-world experience to prepare you for business school.
- Give you an understanding of the real world so you can fully appreciate how unique of an opportunity business school is, and how to make the most of it
- You'll go into business school with a better understanding of the sort of career opportunities you might seek.
Here's an idea of who should pursue an MBA from Quora user.
Business school is a unique opportunity for a fresh start and one you want to be fully prepared for if you're to make the most out of it.
Read More About Getting an MBA on WSO
- MBA vs. Masters in Finance
- How do I get into Harvard MBA in two years with my background (McKinsey, LSE..)?
- What is Distinction is Better - CFA, MBA, or CAIA?
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From my own experience I would like to had: age. Most American students have no real life experience (since gap years are, sadly, very uncommon) and are not MBA material when they finish their senior year.
Currently a senior in undergrad. I chose to forgo graduating early and getting an MBA in my last year because I talked to quite a few professors, alums, MBA students and recruiters who told me that I'd be more competitive with an MBA down the road simply because I would have real work experience to contribute in the academic experience. Also, you only get to press the reset button and get an MBA once. If you press the button too early, you could really miss out on the benefits of an MBA program. That's why I'm putting it off until 4 or years down the road.
If you actually want something out of the MBA, get out in the real world and figure yourself out first. The person asking the question sounds like he/she is just trying to delay real world.
Most of the respectable programs or M7 almost never take someone fresh out of college. It's not just for the sake of the school's reputation. It's because work experience is a good indicator of how ready you are to benefit from/ contribute to the program.
Too many folks look at MBA as just a resume booster to 'climb the ladder'. Yes, many do go in for that reason and get out alright. But I cannot say that's the best use of an MBA...
Can you even get into most MBA programs without a few years of work experience--save for the few exceptional programs that even offer the opportunity?
What if the MBA(1-yr in the UK) is fully funded by scholarships? should one takethe plunge without work experience?
getting an mba directly after being an undergrad (Originally Posted: 10/01/2006)
It seems that most undergrads begin in the IB world as analysts, but could you start as an associate if you go to business school directly afer getting your B.A
yes ..but it'll be almost impossible for you to get into an MBA program directly after graduation...business schools want people with work experience
the only people who go straight are entrepreneurs who have been running their own business for like 5 years...and they obviously dont go the banking route
people who manage to lie about their work experience...
A lot of schools (WashU and a couple others) have a 3+2 program for people who want to get the MBA over with.
If you think you can start as an associate because you went to graduate school right after undergraduate, think again. At the company I worked for, they told me about this guy who went to get his MBA right after undergrad. While he was in graduate school, he did not have banking, or any work expereience. So when he applied for an associate position, they felt he was underqualified. However, for an analyst position, they felt he was overqualified. So, he could not apply for any position because he was "stuck in the middle".
That's why you do internships, then it would fix that problem.
He was applying an internship position. If you are working in the industry, ask your own firm.
He's suppose to have an internship his junior year at an investment bank as an analyst, then during his MBA program he should have an internship as an associate then he should get a full time offer after completion of the MBA program. Your friend simply just fucked up.
Let me ask you this first. Have you worked a day in IBD?
I'm just telling you how it is, you seem to think a direct MBA program is useless, well yeah it is without any work experience, everyone knows this, you don't need to be a VP to figure this out. Your friend didn
Direct MBA is fucking retarded. Let's face it, an MBA is for networking. When I was a junior I took some classes in the YSOM and I was way out of my league- not academically but socially. The people in there were 26+ and I was 21. It is not what you want to do.
haha, Wasting Time are you retarded? First of all, this guy is not a friend of mine. It's just someone that people in my group told me about. Also, answer the fucking question, that is, have you worked a day in IB?
Thanks for all of the input everyone.
From Undergrad to MBA program (Originally Posted: 04/25/2007)
Has anyone done this recently, and if so what kind of summer internship between your first and second year in the MBA program did you get? Also, did you begin applying for FT positions about a year away from graduation? Thanks.
do you have any work experience?
No decent MBA program wants people with shit-all to contribute to the classroom?
What do you have to contribute?
GET A JOB!
when ever i read your posts, i envision a guy doing too much coke who is yelling and doesn't really contribute much.
If you are one of the very few ugrads that go directly to a top MBA program then you will be treated like all the other MBAs. So you'll do the same summer internship (interview in January of 1st year), then you interview for full-time (if you do recruiting 2nd year) starting in the fall of your second year and extending all the way to, or past, graduation depending on your industry choice. But like the other poster said, it is damn near impossible to get into a top MBA without work experience. Wharton lets a handful in each year, but only from Wharton ugrad. And HBS is the easiest school to get into with less experience, but even there only a handful get in with none at all.
First off, Bryan1, don't comment if you don't have anything constructive to say. You are one of the reasons this board has become all about personal attacks instead of helping people get jobs or adding insight into the industry.
For the OP, I went to a less than reputable academic school out of undergrad so that I could play college golf. I didn't know anything about IB until it was too late, so I decided to go back to school and take a shot at getting an investment banking job. My only other options were commercial banking or Private Wealth (or poverty here in Louisiana) Management. I chose to go to a school were I could get in with no work experience and I am getting paid to go to school right now with scholarships and a GA position. I worked hard and I will be working a SA position at a BB coming up in June. Of course I will be starting at the analyst level, but I am "in" now, so it was worth it to me.
If you have any other questions feel free to post or PM me.
What I said was straight to the point? What does the guy have to offer, what can he contribute?
I appreciate the golfer's example of his personal situation, he's an exception to the rule and I wish him the best. In this guy's situation however, and in 90% of anyone else in business, it is misguided to go MBA after 0 years experience. My buddies at the moment in MBA's with 2 years experience had much more difficulty finding positions than their counterparts with the standard 4 year [2 years on stint #1(whether that be analyst, F500, engineering) and 2 years on stint #2 (doing something slightly higher on the totem pole , i.e. PE, HF, f 500, consultancy)]
Think about it. I do know a chick who works in IB after getting her Msc of Finance because she didn't have any decent options out of Ugrad, but still she didn't get an MBA. You save your MBA for when it will really be a springboard for a career change, or career jump.
Please comment on my above analysis.
But anyways, bwils and skins thanks for the contributions. I actually played basketball throughout school and didn't have time to do internships. I kept the grades up and got an internship at ML last summer and got SA job at an M&A boutique in Charlotte for this summer. Again, pretty much the same theme, I wanted to get my MBA for the degree and more experience at a smaller school and a got a GA. I don't really think its that big of a deal to start at the analyst level BC when everyone else is going back, I'll have taken care of it.
When applying for the BB, how did you play the "i want to apply as an analyst buy I'm getting my MBA" thing? A lot of the BBs I talked to wouldn't even interview me bc of that.
I always just stressed that I knew I wasn't qualified to come in as an associate and I was willing to start as an analyst, and that I just wanted a chance to prove myself. You're right that some won't even talk to you, but be persistant and hopefully you will get a few opportunities.
I forgot to say, sorry if any were offended.
I agree I am the exception rather than the rule. For most people I would NOT reccommend this route. However, there are many different ways to get into IB, and you should make your own decisions and not rely on what someone on a forum tells you about your situation because they do not know all the details of your life or the drive that you have. In the end it is the drive to get things done that will determine if you get what you want in life. I just always try to point out in all my posts that if you really want to get in, and you are not a typical candidate, you can still get in if you work really hard at it.
Business schools only accept a very small (think 2% at a target) number of MBA candidates straight out of undergrad. One guy I know had a 4.0 in the BBA program, almost perfect gmat scores, only 1 internship at a regional accounting firm. If you think you can pull that off and be one of those top 2%, go for it. I just wouldn't consider 2% a safe bet.
Well I'm currently not in a top tier MBA program, not bad though. The purpose of my question was just to see if anyone had taken this route on this board and what advice they could offer. Thanks for the comments. I agree that the drive and just cold calling are the best route with a non-target school. They've led to my last two internships, and I actually would be willing to bet its more rewarding to know that it was just you who got you where you wanted to go.
Also, regarding brayn1's comment about the MBA, I don't know if its as big a deal in the South. In NY, I agree there's a system in place that you can't really mess with, but in a city like Charlotte I believe its still growing and thus provides a lot of different routes to get where one wants to go. I've lived here for about 5 years now and it seems people have taken many different routes to get to Wachovia, BofA, boutiques, etc.
bump
I won't offer details, as it may reveal my identity. These are all within past 5 years.
Friend went to Stanford right out. Entrepreneur (failed entrepreneur) in college.
I got into Wharton right out. Worked part-time in college.
Another friend got into Harvard. She had a string of top notch internships every summer, including the summer before college.
The other two people attended.
Thanks for the info.
Sabrine: why did you make that decision?
bryan1 is right.
The MBA does not make the career. The career makes the MBA. Like with everything, b-schools want you when you do not quite need them.
Undergrads at Wharton can get an MBA after 5 years.
I did not think it would add to my career at that point. I already got an offer in private equity, and I figured I could learn more in that than keep going to school for 2 more years, at the end of which I would have had to go through the whole recruiting game again and without added experience.
In fact, I would have had to go through the summer recruitment cycle right off the bat first year.
Accelerated MBA: MBA right after undergraduate, good or bad for Ibanking? (Originally Posted: 12/27/2007)
They are some top business programs now offering accelerated MBA programs that you can get right after undergrad. Would firms consider fresh undergrads students with MBA'S for positions as an associate or would they start them as second year analyst. I have been hearing talk about MBA'S having a harder time getting into associate positions without prior work experience in Ibanking. When they mean prior work experiences do they mean full time or can it be summer-internships as well.
So overall would these students have a harder time getting a job than a person who had applied straight out of undergrad.
Thoughts please!
Typically incoming Associates will have at least 3-4+ years of experience if they're from a non-finance background or were Analysts if they are coming from finance.
I would not recommend doing one of these accelerated MBA programs you can do right after undergrad - your chances of getting an Associate position afterwards are pretty low.
In general, these "accelerated" MBA programs are not a good idea.
Your chances of an associate position is ZERO if you do an MBA (whether accelerated or not) without prior work experience.
Further, you do not need prior finance experience to get an associate position, as long as you have 3-4 years of good work record. Many of the associates in my class do not have prior finance experience.
career killer
If you went to a nontarget undergrad and then do one of these you could potentially get yourself into an analyst program, though you would have to play the game alot. Could give you a 2nd chance at analyst FT recruiting.
honestly, no - no bank would hire an MBA student from a top-ranked b school as an analyst. the only such cases I've heard of are the MBA students from Indian schools but they are hired as analysts in international offices.
I know some guys who did the accelerated program from kellogg and columbia. They got offers at BBs but they had solid work experience before MBA.
I did it, but I initially entered the program so that I could finish the MBA program and enter law school. I backed out of law school and have been struggling to find a positin within investment banking. Granted I have been applying for analyst position and not associate positions and still have yet to find a job in Chicago.
One pieice of advice is that if you do enter the accelerated program, you should primarily target MM/Boutique shops because they have seem to be the most responsive within the industry. The BB's will not even know what to do with you seeing as you don't "fit" the model candidate. Too experienced for analyst on paper and too underqualified for an associates position. Unless you have some family contacts, it will be an uphill battle.
Remember you can do what you want, but always try to play the game with the odds in your favor. Go get some work experience, B school will always be there.
"Your chances of an associate position is ZERO if you do an MBA (whether accelerated or not) without prior work experience."
you can submatric at wharton and go right to associate.
Its not impossible. Look at that Wharton MBA resume book floating around somewhere in this forum, some of the submatriculates have landed summer associate positions without any full time work experience.
That was in the tightest labor market in recent history, similar to the days in late-2000 when we were hiring anyone with a pulse. The market has changed.
It's not dissimilar to the question about lawyers and the type of credit they get when they come over. Everyone points to the outliers, who managed to become very senior MDs. What people fail to recognize is that the road is littered with bodies of guys who came over in good markets, only to be taken out back, lined up against the wall and shot when markets turn down.
My group hired a half dozen lawyers back in 99-00 when associate recruiting was tough. None of them made it through the downturn. We've got a few now who made the same jump in '05/06/07. I'm not making any bets on how many of them, if any, are going to collect another bonus after this year.
does summer internships count as valid work experience. And can you request to start as second year analyst knowing they would not want to put you with the associate class.
wouldn't do it, but there are banks that will give a look to post b school/law school kid without work experience as a 3rd year analyst.
Genghis, I've a question - why don't lawyers make good bankers? are they bad at quant stuff?
It would be a gross over-generalization to say that lawyers are bad at quantitative analysis or more prone to failure than MBAs.
I only note that they have a high failure rate after transitioning from a biglaw M&A practice.
Why is that? Here's my observation. The greatest contributing factor is inexperience. Or directly applicable experience, at least. Most lawyers making a lateral transition negotiate a 2nd or 3rd year associate slot, which they generally consider to be "taking a step back" given the number of years they spent at a law firm. Even so, it makes financial sense for them because they will still end up ahead in terms of comp, and far ahead in terms of comp acceleration in future years.
However, they suddenly slot into a roster where they are being compared versus associates who have had a couple of years to figure out where the landmines are. The MBAs have had time to figure out how the models work, what analysts do that can blow them up, what MDs look for when checking work, and how to work the system (everything from how to get the best results from Production/Presentation to who to call when you have a question about tax).
Senior bankers make judgments very quickly. And they rank on a curve. Inexperience hurts, and your peers have a few years of "trust equity" built up with their previous work with those senior bankers. Lateral associates from other firms face the same issues, only they have fewer things to learn. In many ways, it's a race against time - can you get up the curve far enough to be considered on par with the associates who have a two year head start on you, before the moment that the shit hits the fan and necks start appearing on the chopping block?
That's the issue. And not having a finance/analytical backgorund doesn't help.
The pimp move to go to law school right out of ug, work for a couple of years, go to a top 10 mba, and then have the option of doing banking or biglaw later on.
Chances at MBA admission out of undergrad (Originally Posted: 08/17/2010)
So I was just wondering, does anyone know what the chances are of someone finishing up undergrad in Canada and then going straight into an MBA program at Harvard/Wharton/Stanford/Yale/MIT? Assuming you're a Bcomm with a finance major and econ minor and you graduate with honors, throw a strong GMAT and a level I CFA in there..
Chances?
First you would have to calculate the probability of getting in those programs than multiply it by the probability of being accepted right out of undergrad. Pragmatically speaking, focus your energy elsewhere unless you started your own business in college an are making $$$.
Your chances are VERY slim. Since you didn't mention any truly outstanding professional ventures, I am assuming you haven't started several non-profits, a microfinance company, your own successful internet business, etc. Therefore, with just the hard stats - good grades and GMAT, you will have an incredibly difficult time breaking into a top MBA program without a few years of strong work experience.
Remember, people with good grades and a good GMAT and who have worked for a few years get rejected from top schools every year, so you will have a much more difficult time than they will.
I would recommend that you find a FT opp, and some interesting volunteer opps for the next 2-3 years and then look into putting together a strong application.
What about being president of a couple of clubs, say the Investment club and finance association? Probably wouldn't be enough.
Unfortunately, not at all - not for top programs. While it will definitely help to strengthen your candidacy from an EC and leadership perspective, you still need that real work experience
Find a good job, advance and build some strong experiences over a few years and then look to apply to top B schools.
Remember, B school is the last school, usually, and your last chance to make a career change or big move - no need to rush it.
Great point!
I would just forget about trying to do it from undergrad. It will be nearly impossible (at the universities you listed anyway) and it would be more valuable to get some real world experience anyway. That will make life easier when you're in the MBA program, and will make you much more marketable once you finally complete your MBA.
You'd be at a huge disadvantage in the job market without work experience compared to an MBA with a few solid years.
http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/2+2/
Getting an MBA with no work experience is a HORRIBLE move. The degree is not a huge leap in knowledge and you will be treated like a baby by your older and more experienced classmates.
Probably. I was just curious. I'm assuming chances are the same at Camebride, Oxford, Imperial college, and LSE?
I would also assume that doing an MBA out of undergrad would put you in a weird position career-wise, as most employers expect MBAs to have several years of work experience.
I know someone who got into HBS out of a non-target undergrad but he had a perfect GPA, GMAT, and started his own business.
The question should be not "could I get in?" but rather "why do I want to go to business school?" It takes time in the real world to figure out what you want to do, and even if you have a great idea of what you want, undergrad directly to business school is typically not even the best path. In IB, I'm about 95% sure you would not even come in as an associate at any reputable bank with an MBA but no work experience.
I'm just considering this path because if I decide to work in the middle east they would value you much more with an MBA rather than just an undergrad, and if you have it from a top renowned school like Harvard, you're set there. Plus, if I want to start out there it would be hard to come back for an MBA..
So, they only value Harvard MBAs in the Middle East? You don't seem to exhibit the critical thinking skills required for a top b-school.
Why would it "be hard to come back for an MBA"? Something like 1/3 of H/S/W students are international and another 1/3 have international experience. Obviously, they all found a way to swing the 2 year stint in the US.
CNB is a solid dude so lets not bash him.
If you want to work in the MENA area I would go for a MSc from one of the top UK schools. I think you would gain more from that at this point in the game then you would from an MBA.
Does any one here know if places like Cambridge, oxford, and LSE take fresh grads for their MFin programs?
I understand the MBA issue but would like to know about the masters.
They all take fresh grads. MSF degree is traditionally for people with no experience or 1 year or less. All 3 schools above are good choices.
How stringent are the requirements for these programs?
You'd probably end up settling for a lesser school. Also, it will be VERY hard to find work after at the same level of your classmates. No respectable consulting or IB firm will hire you at the traditional post MBA level, and you'd be overqualified for entry level. I've even read forum posts from HBS 2+2 having a hard time recruiting for post-MBA because they have less experience than many of their peers.
If you want to continue your education, finish your CFA and/or earn a respected masters degree (finance from MIT or something like that). But I would focus on getting a few, solid years of good work experience more than anything. Almost any hiring manager I know would shy away from hiring an MBA with zero work experience, at least in the salary range that you'd expect to make post MBA (or anywhere close).
Undergrad clubs/etc mean essentially nothing for H/S/W. I feel like they look more favorably on post graduate alumni involvement though. You probably wouldn't get into any M7 or top 15/20 school. To put it into perspective, I have 5 years WE at a respected private wealth firm, am a level III CFA and hold my CFP, have a track record of community involvement and had 3 promotions in 4 years, and a great story to tie together my application. Solid grades (well over 3.5) and a top 1% GMAT. Even then, I was dinged outright at S/W. They're not going to hold you to a lesser standard because you're younger.
The good news is top programs will take people with 2-3 (really more like 3-4) years of WE if your experience is impressive. So you don't have that much long to wait, and then ALL the negatives I threw at you turn in to pros. Suddenly you can be a competitive candidate, be on similar ground to your classmates in recruiting and make the kind of money you deserve out of a top tier program.
I have a direct quote from a Top 40 MBA Adcom (director):
"if you get into a great MBA program right after undergrad, you must be golden". "Otherwise, you got to ask why you're good for an MBA--or is the MBA program any reputable?" In other words, whil ethey don't have your FT work profile, they can see through your potentials enough to write an offer.
If you are close, than why not wait for a few years when you can lock in those offers? It doesnt hurt to try now, of course. You just have to think why this is a good choice, and what strengths you bring to the table.
MBA straight out of Undergrad? (Originally Posted: 04/03/2011)
Hi guys,
So, I'm currently studying Business at a UK University. I have previous work experience before coming to University, as well as being Presidents of two Societies during my time at University as well as other leadership positions.
My question is how do the US Business Schools (Top ones, e.g. Stanford, Wharton, HBS, etc...) regard students who want to apply right after Undergrad? Assuming I have a few years of experience before coming to University as well as leadership positions during my time here, will I even stand a fair chance?
Thank you.
no
I don't think that works, pretty sure you need solid work experience after undergrad.
those programs exist, but are EXTREMELY selective.
not a chance at top programs. you can only apply to the crappy ones that need money from students.
dont do it, this has been pointed out many times (the reasons for it and all)
and from the experience that you describe its a very long shot, I doubt that this would be enough for the top ones.
I would not recommend doing this. These schools are going to look for post-undergrad work experience. Also, you just finished studying business in your undergrad - do you think you are going to gain a lot from doing an MBA immediately? Plus, if you are wanting to do the MBA for networking, your classmates in top MBA programs would not have an incentive to network with you if you don't have any post undergraduate experience. Just my two cents.
Even if you were accepted, why would you want to go? Take some time off an enjoy yourself
They would regard you as an arrogant, self important idiot with delusions of grandeur who doesn't understand the purpose/value of an MBA and quickly pass on your application...or... far worse they would accept you (as they very rarely do in such cases) thereby billing you $100K+ for a diploma which (in your case) would not hold anywhere near the value it could if you took the prescribed MBA route.
The MBA degree is meant for one of the two following people in the overwhelming majority of cases. If you don't fall into one of these two categories chances are that an MBA will simply not benefit your cause at this point in time. Quite the contrary,actually.
1) you have a bare naked minimum of two years employment experience post undergrad(4-6 is better) and are looking to make a career transition (experience can be anything from teaching English in the third world, to military, to finance, to flipping burgers or shining shoes)
2) you are looking to move up the ranks in an industry you have worked in for a minimum of two years (4-6 is better) and know that the network/prestige will help you en route.
None of the things you listed about yourself define you as one of the above, so tread lightly. Use the search function on this as there's a lot of stuff on this subject available. Just be aware that you'd be swimming upstream if you made this move.
I know that HBS accepts undergrads with no work experience, but even if you get in, come recruiting season you'll be fucked since nobody will want to hire you as an associate because you 0 work experience. plenty of people with 4-10 years of experience to choose from - employers are getting more by hiring these guys than you.
"you'll be fucked" What if he doesnt give a shit about associate/analyst roles at ib/pe/hf? You think everyone at a top mba program wants to join the ib/pe analyst associate ranks?
Stats?
I can only give the perspective from HBS, but some general management recruiters (think Dow, Danaher, etc) have a 4, 5 or 6 year work experience requirement. For the most part though, many of our recruiters don't bat an eye when they see 0, 1 or 2 years of work experience. I know that the small handful of people who had 0 years of WE and wanted those jobs had no problem getting BB and MBB internships with their 0 years - all it took was some networking, same as everyone else. Doesn't matter if you're 22 or 28, you still get paid the same.
But what level did they come in at with no W/E? (i.e. analyst? associate?)
also an HBS guy here, I can confirm redninja's statements.
^^ associate
hmmm. if that's true pretty fucking amazing. everyone should apply straight from undergrad then, skip 2-4 years of work and then be employed on the same position/salary as the other guys.
No reputable firm would dare hire a Harvard/Stanford MBA at the analyst level - they don't recruit for analysts at our schools and the reputation damage wouldn't be worth it.
Sorry, but I wholly disagree. There's a reason almost all of us chose to defer our admission and do something else. Work experience before MBA is valuable in and of itself, it lets you know what you like and don't like doing so you don't make a bad choice coming out of the MBA. MBA is a good time to switch careers, and after the MBA career-switching becomes much more difficult.
This is a little more nuanced, but specifically at HBS, what you say in class is also really important - half your grade depends on your comments and your peers judge you by it. It goes without saying that if you don't have work experience, you don't learn as much, but what's less obvious is that without work experience, you add very minimal value to class and to your peers. Remember, the value of the MBA is the network that you develop - do you really want to be remembered as that guy without work experience?
EDIT: One more point - just because you'll have no problem getting a job at the same salary as your peers with work experience doesn't mean you'll be able to keep that job as long. Pre-MBA work experience as an analyst is a good time to cut your teeth and make silly mistakes, if you join at the associate level you don't have as much wiggle room.
SB
Writing just to concur w/ red ninja. Same has been true of my hbs experience
JD | MBA Joint Degree Directly after Undergrad (Originally Posted: 01/22/2013)
I'm curious how successful are students upon graduating with a JD | MBA joint degree from Wharton, Harvard etc. I'm considering doing this directly after undergrad if anyone has any stories of people doing this and if they were successful ? or how employable were they ?
i know someone wo did this then went to an elite boutique as an analyst
I know of one who did BCG->Bain->Head of Bain Cap->Winter Olympics Organizer->State Governor->Presidential Candidate. Not sure what his next move is at this point.
Sorry guess that wasn't very helpful.
He basically told me that the MBA/JD was useful for him because he didn't study business in undergrad. Dunno if this is just posturing, but he said he thinks the combination of the MBA real world applications with the analytic skillset derived from law school has been a lot of help in the real world.
Did say that it was hard getting looks. He had to put in a lot of legwork to get interviews because although he had top grades, EC, etc., he's kind of in no-man's land. a little too old to be an analyst, but too young/not enough experience to be an associate. Said some people he networked with straight up told him he was an idiot for doing a JD/MBA right out of college.
However, the elite boutique gave him a shot, and he's exceling there. Basically, if you put in the legwork and understand that you'll still come in as an analyst, I don't see why not.
So banks think you should wait to do JD/MBA maybe a few years ? the thing is if i wanna do the JD/MBA i prefer do it younger then be in school into my early thirties or would they prefer an older student with some work experience ?
I wouldn't recommend it. You definitely end up in "no-man's land" which eliminates the benefits of the advanced degree in the first place. I recently reviewed the resume of a candidate who basically did his undergrad/JD/MBA at a combination of Harvard + Yale + a different ivy league school. Obviously a very bright and pedigreed guy. Unfortunately we wouldn't even consider him for a pre-MBA associate role given his lack of work experience. You're better off doing HBS's 2+2 program so you at least have some work experience before going for an advanced degree.
I'm curious is this only for investment banking ? or could you possibly place into something else in the finance realm ? or possibly a startup i wouldn't want come in as analyst such an old age...
One more question if anyone can address i'm curious it seem's like recruiting has changed i read many high profile people for instance someone posted Mitt Romney that went straight through and were able to place into a great role upon graduating without much work experience why is this not true today ? Why do firms want so much work experience ? couldn't pure knowledge defeat experience in the long run ?
The whole going straight through B-school thing was far more common back in the day. Mitt Romney and John Paulson went straight through and started off at BCG (I'm assuming as full-on consultants). You can of course go to BigLaw (decimated field right now though), potentially start at an MBB as a consultant (probably no way to guarantee that) and most likely start in IB as an absurdly overeducated analyst (straight to associate is probably possible, but you have to somehow demonstrate the kind of professional polish and relationship skills that separate analysts from associates). Megafund PE is not happening unless you're aiming at funds who recruit straight out of undergrad.
And pure knowledge will never trump experience. The "knowledge" you gain in B-school is a lot of fluff and will be hopelessly outdated in 5 years. The knowledge you gain in law school is harder to gain through mere experience but it's actual usefulness is limited to practicing law and can come in handy for PE or event-driven HFs.
And what in the world could you contribute to a start-up with a JD/MBA and no experience?
Would corporate law be a possibility as well ? or restructuring banking i saw a Cornell JD/MBA that went straight through go this route. BCG also recruits at my undergrad for full time so if i could get offer that would be great & i feel the applications from law will be useful in many fields knowing how to deal with contracts and having financial background is key to being successful. I also feel just being purely driven to succeed trumps everything but that's another conversation.
Okay i'm curious would it be more advantageous to stay at my school extra year & half do my undergrad business school which is top 3 ranked in the country recruit for two extra summers then to do an JD/MBA directly after graduating ? & maybe consider that or just the MBA later in my career ??
Typically, when applying to a JD/MBA program you must be admitted to both the business school and law school, respectively. You may be hard pressed to gain that biz school admission at top 10 programs without work experience. I considered the doing the same when I get out of undergrad, but discovered this fact. It may be something to investigate. I know for a fact Northwestern's JD/MBA requires 3 yrs WE.
I researched a few that accept students without much work experience
Every post here points to doing a JD/MBA straight out of undergrad most likely being a mistake. I think you should get an idea of what you want to do for a living before signing on to such a massive commitment with a very uncertain payoff. "Being successful" or "very educated" is not a career.
Yes this is true i want to believe a JD/MBA will give me flexibility of a legal career or business career & insight to corporate law issues. The only problem it's hard find examples of people doing this it seems most people only utilize one degree i wish there was a way to look at schools JD/MBA profiles specifically to get some insight of the placement of those students & students with very little work experience but it's hard find any data like that as well...if anyone has that information i would greatly appreciate it.
MBA or MSF with internship right after undergrad? (Originally Posted: 05/13/2013)
So I have a question regarding pursuing an MBA or MSF right after graduating undergrad. Naturally, or at least from what I understand, this is generally unadvisable because you need credible work experience. My particular situation is that I will have work experience but perhaps not enough. I will be graduating from a semi target private university in May of 2014 with my B.S.B.A. with a concentration in Finance (so essentially finance but with some added crap to "round out the individual"). My expected GPA is 3.6-3.7 and I will also have one year's worth of credible equity research experience at a value oriented boutique AM shop by the time I graduate. My question about considering an MBA or MSF is that I want to get into equity research and Asset Management but if possible I'd like to avoid spending a couple years as an analyst in IB. The problem I face though is that I will only have that one year of experience where many even general equity research positions want three years or so of experience. Would it possibly be advisable for me to pursue an MBA or MSF then while still working at the same AM shop, in which case I would end up with probably three years of experience and an MBA or MSF at 24? Any thoughts or suggested alternate ideas would be greatly appreciated monkeys!
MSF unless you get into a T10 MBA program and even then I would probably consider an MSF.
But why even do an MSF? Just go back into the industry and do an MBA later on. With you experience you should have no issues getting a position.
Well the thought process is that when I graduate next year I will only have one year of experience. That will make it rather difficult, although not impossible, to get an equity research or AM gig and I may have to consider spending a couple years on the sell side to gain more experience. The thing is I don't particularly want to go IB. If I were to pursue an MSF or MBA right out of undergrad I could continue getting buy side experience at the current shop I am interning at and then at 24 I'll have three years buy side experience and an MBA or MSF.
Will they not offer you a job if you don't continue to go to school?
You could just graduate, work at this shop for 2-3 years and then make the jump...? Or evaluate MBA at that point in time?
I'd love to work there full-time after I graduate but being a boutique AM shop they probably won't need anyone in a year. I could be wrong though, things change. As of right now though they have everyone they need and probably will for the foreseeable future.
Where are you located? Sounds like you'd want a PT MSF program so you could continue to work.
I'm in the midwest (not Chicago though) and there are a couple decent PT MSF programs here as well as a couple good MBA programs. One of each is top 20.
It was my understanding that many MSF programs (or related, i.e. not MBAs) do not really require the professional experiences that MBAs do. However I could be wrong.
Regardless, would have to say that I am also hoping to follow that path and am leaning more towards MSF while also obtaining a CFA.
Just a word of warning - don't underestimate level 2 & 3 of the CFA if you go this route. April & May of that year it will take all of your free time if you're working. I believe some masters are intended to complement the CFA path so you're studying the same stuff at the same time; might be worth taking into consideration.
MSF programs generally do not require work experience. Internships are good to have though.
MSF inless top 5 MBA school admits you.
MSF/MBA immediately after undergrad (Originally Posted: 08/27/2013)
I have read lots of posts on here suggesting undergrads without great job prospects to "rebrand" by going straight into a top MBA or MSF program. I was considering this because I know that once I begin working and earning, I wont want to stop for 2 years because Ill have financial obligations (helping family, remittances, etc). The only problem I wonder about is will an MBA or MSF graduate with no long term/specific work experience in finance be able to get a job?
I think about it like this.. You'll command a higher salary due to your graduate degree, and you will have a greater knowledge and experise than some kid out of undergrad. With no full time work experience though, other than potential SA/internship gigs during the two years, wouldnt you pose a much bigger hiring risk than some kid out of undergrad due to your higher salary?
To consolidate this question, I suppose I am curious how the job market is for someone in this position. I know it will certainly come down to your networking, effort, etc. but do MSF student get considered for internships without prior experience or are they expected to have more experience? The reason for my lack of experience is another story for another day... Ultimately, I am a smart guy and really like to learn but dont want to do academia so I am considering this because I think it is a better route to a good buy side job than starting in a back office gig and working my way up.
Thoughts?
It's incredibly hard to get into any good MBA if you don't have work experience. It would also be a waste of time and money, as your peers would be much better in the recruiter's eyes.
MSF is another story, especially if you are in Europe. In the US it may allow you to reposition yourself or go from non-target to target.
This. Top MBAs will take your work experience into account almost as much as your grades and gmat scores. Not only will you be less of a candidate in the eyes of a recruiter, but you will also be much less mature than your classmates. Trust me, 3-4 years work experience post-undergrad is a lot compared to someone with no 'real-world' experience.
No to MBA, maybe to MSF.
I probably 'erred' a bit by saying 'almost as much' in my previous post. Depending on what your prior experience is, you may even get more credit than academic or standardized test scores. I met a former USMC helicopter pilot at a recruiting event who only had an associates degree, but was a first-year at a Top 10 MBA program. He probably did well enough on the GMAT and impressed enough in his interviews that the admissions folks did not care.
We could probably loop this into some of the topics going around about exit exams at universities and the overall quality of what you actually pick up in undergrad.
.
Alright, I definitely recognized that the MBA and MSF had different characteristics in terms of admissions and job placements. So, then regarding just an MSF, do you think it would be of any value to me in my current position right out of undergrad? Or should I just try to work my way into a good role starting in a back office position, and maybe hope I get sponsored for an MBA down the road? I have had friends who did this, but that was a different job/education market than today.. Also, disregarding the MBA, what if I were deciding between a MSF and CFA?
The MBA without work experience is hard to get into and even if you get in, it leaves you in a weird place. You'll be competing with experienced applicants and hiring managers will be looking for people with experience to fill leadership or other more senior roles.
Go do a masters and if you want to do an MBA later without taking two years out then do a 1 year MBA.
MSF and CFA have overlap, but are pretty different animals. I'd consider doing the CFA if you are already working in a field that will give you the required work experience and if you don't want to take time off for school. The MSF touches on each level of the CFA, but doesn't go as in depth.
Alright. So with the CFA I would essentially want to be working my way through a company and then upon/nearing completion hope that I would be promoted so I can actually get the CFA... Lastly, if im in a MSF program (target), what would OCR be like? what kind of positions would be recruiting me? would I just be fighting for the same summer internships as undergrads, or MBAs?
You would be competing for undergraduate roles.
It all depends on what your attitude is towards school in the future. I knew that I would have trouble getting motivated to get back into "school mode" if I had put off getting my MBA and going the traditional route. That being said, the above posters mentioning that experience is a huge factor when being considered for a job are absolutely correct. I'm finding that interviewers seem to discount the fact that I have my MBA due to my limited financial experience. (IBD internship)
Also, as far as compensation goes, in my experience it seems that if you do the undergrad straight to MBA path, when you finish and apply for entry level jobs, you will most likely be paid entry level salaries. An employer has no reason to pay you anything more because you have little real world experience that can add value to their firm.
Just my 2 cents. Whatever you choose to do, good luck
Why would a graduate student compete for undergraduate roles? If you are being sarcastic, good job. you got me.
Not being sarcastic. Without work experience and showing that you are able to offer what a "traditional" graduate student could through your previous work, employers have no reason to risk hiring you for higher level positions. These higher level positions command a higher salary, more responsibility, and an increased risk for larger financial losses for the firm should that person screw something up because they didn't know what they were doing
You may very well be competing against undergraduates. In the end, an MBA is not a replacement for solid work experience and you will not be experienced enough for MBA roles and you will have priced yourself out of undergraduate roles. This is all assuming you even get into a top ranked MBA program, which is unlikely. The students who do get into top 7 MBA programs out of school only got in because they had so much experience in undergrad.
Take this from someone who is pursuing a doctorate (and thus has no experience outside of internships, albeit awesome ones) and has competed against M7 MBA's. Your lack of experience will come out and you'll (probably) get screwed
Yeah, you will 100% be competing with UG's for jobs. You might get slightly more money or get promoted faster because of the masters, but without work experience you won't be at the MBA level.
Alright, that makes sense and is what I initially assumed. I just find it odd that they would hire a graduate for an undergraduate role. So, is it common for someone doing a 2year MSF to do a SA in between? Would I be considered in the same light as undergrads, especially if I would make it clear that my MSF is essentially an attempt to rebrand myself academically and professionally? See, I am just looking for that first solid finance work experience and see the MSF as an extension to find that.
I am totally comfortable with that if that is the case. I need a way in.
I had the same view which was one of the reasons I chose to get my MBA right out of undergrad. I am now competing for the same jobs that I would have if I had just had the undergrad degree on my résumé. It is very hard to skip levels when getting a first job.
Think about the usual IBD job path. You graduate undergrad, get an analyst position, work that for a few years, go back to school for an MBA, get a job as an associate in IBD, hopefully be good enough at your job to move up even further to MD and VP roles. 99.9% of the time there is no shot in hell that someone could skip to the associate level if they do undergrad straight to MBA. Unless that person is some type of super genius boy wonder or something
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. So did you have any experience coming out of undergrad? (SA,Internships, etc.)
I had an internship during school in IBD at a boutique investment bank mostly focused on M&A and some private equity. I also had a very sales heavy position at another firm earlier on during college
Not sure what the specific circumstances were, but that's what I heard. There are more than a few mustangs without 4-year degrees and I know he was enlisted for a few years prior to com. and heading to p-cola.
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Dont do the MBA. You won't get into a good enough school and then you'll just be paying for a degree that won't get you into a top shop. Plus, the 3-5 years of work experience is way to valuable. Also, I doubt you'd be getting paid much higher than the undergrads you were competing with if you went to a run of the mill school with no prior experience. In my IBD intern class (a BB in NYC) we only had MBAs (one JD/MBA) and no MSFs.
MBA programs tailored for those straight out of undergrad? (Originally Posted: 05/27/2014)
I am curious about how programs such as the Yale Silver Scholars Program work. I just finished about three years of work experience and am now hearing about these programs. I obviously know I cannot apply for these programs, but am curious on certain factors:
Do you still get a registered MBA program degree (like a normal graduate school)?
Besides, HBS 2+2 and Yale Silver Scholars, what are other top programs that have great potential for straight from college MBA?
Would any summer internships play a role or is it all GPA/GMAT? What other steps can an applicant take to separate from the crowd?
I am probably stupid for not understanding how beneficial an MBA can be even if you do not have work experience. I acknowledge that an advance. Thanks fellow monkeys...
HBS and Yale aren't straight from college - After you get accepted, you work for two years, then join the school. It's more of an extremely early acceptance. No other schools currently offer them, although I think Stern is starting one soon.
I know stanford offers this for a very select few. It's not an early enrollment, but an assurance of entering in a future class.
I think Yale is actually straight from UG with a year of work in there (that's why 3 years, not 2) but I'm not 100% sure. HBS and Stanford are the big ones - you apply in your last year of an UG degree (or grad degree if you went straight to grad school from undergrad) and are guaranteed admission for after 2 years of (approved - but can be almost anything) work experience. Can defer entry for another year or two if you want to.
MBA After Undergrad for STEM Career (Originally Posted: 10/23/2014)
Hello there, I was wondering if I could have the advice of a couple other people on this. I am currently enrolled in an accelerated MBA Program. My major is Computer Science, and with this it would allow me to also get my MBA with an additional year after I achieve my undergrad.
So in total I would be going to school for 5 years. Now the additional year would be at Manderson Business School from the University of Alabama, so it is not a prestigious business school. I also have a year of the GI bill that I can use, so the tuition would be virtually nothing. The only thing I could lose from it is a year in the work force.
My question is would getting this MBA hinder me in anyway? I have heard stories of certain people who, because they don't have experience, aren't considered for the higher up position, and because they have an MBA they aren't considered for the lower positions. I was wondering how true is this? I mean I am not looking to become a manager right out of college, I would just like the degree as more of a tool in my tool box that I can deploy later to move up the ladder. So would getting my MBA with all this considered hinder or help me in my STEM Career? What are your opinions?
Don't waste your money. Get the CS degree and then go to work. Your GI Bill is good for 10 years (?) after you leave service. The living allowance alone is worth 3900/month in a place like NYC not to mention the yellow ribbon or 20k/yr in tuition for private school or grants or all in-state tuition. If I was you I'd get my CS degree, enroll in the Masters at GT (6k?) online to complete concurrently while you work in a real job. If you end up needing an MBA later get it from a school like Booth, a full time program.
Just my thoughts.
Don't ever get MBA without working experience (unless at those well-known early career program like Yale silver scholar). Your resume will look weird with a no-name MBA and no full-time working experience.
You could get one specialized master tho if you really want to go to grad school after college.
Top b school with no work experience (Originally Posted: 12/23/2011)
Has anyone gotten into any of the ivys, duke,mit, nyu or any other top b schools right out of undergrad without full time experience? I want to apply for these programs but I want to know what the Seniors who got in stats were like... GPA, undergrad, internship, GMAT and school accepted in to would be great.
It definitely has happened before, I don't know how you could discover those students' individual stats. My guess is that they went to the same school, which probably helped them.
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