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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » Jared Dillian's blog
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THE GOVERNMENT
 

Jared Dillian's picture
Jared Dillian
      ST
 
 
(Senior Baboon, 210
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 12:30pm
government.jpg

This is a syndication from Jared's Daily Dirtnap daily market newsletter. WSO readers qualify for a $100 discount...just email [email protected] and mention "WSO Monkey Discount" You can follow Jared on twitter at @dailydirtnap

People go back and forth on this: government is too big, government is too small. Well, if there is one thing that most people on Wall Street have in common, it is that almost none of them have worked in government. I have. I have an opinion on the size of government, for sure, but at least mine is an educated one.

So let me tell you a couple of government stories, leaving aside all the ones from the Coast Guard Academy (or maybe we will get to those later). So I graduate from the Academy, and I go to a ship. A white one. White ones do law enforcement. I was stationed in the Pacific Northwest. There are a lot of fish in the Pacific Northwest. At least, there used to be a lot of fish. Maybe we will get to that, too.

So I report aboard the cutter, and the first thing they do is make me Weapons Officer. I have a gunner’s mate working for me. Before long, he is scooped up by CGIS (yes, like NCIS) for being a bigamist. Well, it is not as bad as it sounds. He got drunk and got married, a second time, in a blackout.

Well, I suppose it could happen to anyone. This is really the beginning of the story, really, a story about a ship whose annual budget is $20 million a year, whose mission is law enforcement, that actually conducts very little law enforcement. We would go out to sea for 6-8 weeks at a time and typically board about 8-10 fishing vessels. Maybe we would board 50 a year, to the tune of $500,000 a boarding. This is leaving aside the fact that the law enforcement program was in shambles. The bulletproof vests were moldy and rotten, the weapons belts covered in salt, nobody was qualified to do anything (with the exception of guns, at least people were qualified with those), and nobody knew what the hell was going on.

Well, what they did was make me in charge of law enforcement on the ship. So I asked the Executive Officer for money (about $10,000) for new equipment. He said no. I started training boarding team members. I was discouraged from doing so. Nobody seemed to care that we didn’t do any boardings, and nobody seemed to care that the boardings we did were fraught with danger because the equipment was faulty and the law enforcement personnel were unqualified.

This is, of course, separate and distinct from the issue that we weren’t doing any boardings to begin with. Let me explain. The military (particularly the sea services) has zero tolerance for error, and therefore, zero tolerance for risk. If you are the commanding officer of a cutter, and you do a boarding, and someone gets hurt, your career is over. So the goal is to do as little law enforcement as possible.

So like I said, nobody was giving me any resources to do the thing that was the whole point of the existence of the barnacle barge to begin with. I found this to be (just a bit) confusing. Um, the taxpayers want us to enforce U.S. law at sea. We aren’t doing it. What, exactly, were we doing?

I’ll tell you what we were doing. We were doing the MLC (Maintenance and Logistics Command) Administrative Compliance Inspection. We would get underway, and most of what we spent our time doing was getting our files in order. I wish I was making this up. This is essentially what the MLC Administrative Compliance Inspection was all about, getting our files in order. You see, if we did poorly on the Administrative Compliance Inspection, it could cost the Commanding Officer a job. So we spent a lot of time (a lot of time) organizing our files. But we spent virtually zero time doing law enforcement. We would literally go out to sea to organize our files.

Now, as you know, the goal of any government entity, the ultimate goal, is to spend its entire budget. It is pointless to try and save money, because HQ is just going to shrink your budget next year, and if you return the money to the authorities, they are just going to give it to someone else, and it is going to get spent anyway. So what is the point? So every year, at the end of the year, it was a race to spend as much money as humanly possible. Most of it went to engineering equipment, nuts and bolts that would get delivered in boxes on the pier and would go down in the engineering storeroom, forever, never to be used (except as ballast).

Well, inevitably, there would be units who wouldn’t spend all their money, and that money would get redistributed to the fleet. This was called “fallout funds.” Like, money that falls from the sky (or grows on trees, or whatever). We were slated to receive about $9,000.

So I went to the XO and I told him that I wanted the fallout funds for law enforcement gear. I was in competition; everyone on the ship wanted the money for some pet project, none of which had to do with the actual mission of law enforcement. I did get my way; I talked him into giving me the money, and I got all new equipment, at a cost. Everyone on the ship was pissed, especially the engineers. I wasn’t too concerned about it, though. I took my law enforcement responsibilities seriously.

I worked very hard at it. I was constantly doing training on law enforcement techniques and fisheries regulations. Everyone thought I was really, really weird. My performance was not being evaluated on this at all. In fact, the XO would much rather that I spent my time doing things like organizing my files. I didn’t care. (It cost me, in the long run.)

My story is not unique.

Well, it didn’t take long before I decided that I had enough, and I went and applied to business school in the Bay Area. In order to go to business school in the Bay Area (part-time), I had to ensure that I got stationed in the Bay Area. So I applied for the worst job possible, put it at the top of my list: Pacarea Intel. Nobody cared about Intel at the time; it was a bunch of misfits who had ruined their careers (things have changed since then). I knew that I was going to be in competition with precisely nobody. I was right. I got the job.

This was the job where careers went to die. Many of my predecessors had gone on to get passed over for promotion to Lieutenant. The office had a horrible, horrible reputation for being a bunch of lazy idiots. So I showed up for my first day of work, and they told me that I was the fisheries analyst. Okay. What do I do? I don’t know, they said. Figure it out.

So I sat down at my empty desk. I came into work every day, and sat down at my empty desk. For a month. After a while, I decided that it was getting embarrassing and that I should do something. Keep in mind that I didn’t really have to do anything, because I was getting out of the Coast Guard, anyway. I could have worn a dress, like Klinger.

So I started learning about fish. One fish red fish blue fish two fish or however that goes. I got books and academic papers, and talked to scientists and fishermen and local law enforcement, like fish and game folks, and learned everything there was to know about fish in the Pacific. Once again, people thought I was nuts. Why do all this work, when you can sit around and stare at the wall?

My biggest project was High Seas Driftnet fishing (hereafter known as HSDN). HSDN fishing is a problem, supposedly, because the nets are made of monofilament (like fishing line) and basically kill everything in their path, like marine mammals. They were made illegal by international law, of all things, but as most things go with international law, it is left to the U.S. to enforce it.

So it was an open secret that these guys were still out there fishing (for salmon). How do you find a fishing boat in all of the Pacific? Well, you could go fly around the Pacific randomly, burning up a lot of JP-5, which is what they used to do. The fisheries intel guy before me did a tiny bit of work and narrowed down a few million square miles into a few hundred thousand square miles. He then spent three years strutting around the office like a peacock, even though he never caught anybody. All I heard about was how big a hero this guy was.

So after a lot of searching, I unearthed some dusty, obscure academic papers on salmon migration off the coast of Russia. I also learned what water temperature salmon liked and what salinity they liked. That information I could get from NOAA, and combined with the information from my research, I was able to take the couple hundred thousand square mile search area and narrow it down to a couple hundred square mile search area.

On the first flight, we found five of these guys. For this, I received a Commendation medal.

Paradoxically, I learned a lot from that experience. “Figure it out” are my three favorite words in the English language.

So that is my experience in government, in a nutshell. Oh sure, I have more stories (which I might share another time, how government single-handedly killed off dozens of species of fish on the West Coast, wasting billions of dollars in the process). The far right-wingers are fond of saying that government employees are evil. They are not. They are good people. But they are generally unhappy people, because nothing is expected of them, and left to their own devices, most people will stare at the wall if paid to do so. But what government is good at doing is preserving itself.

Furthermore, it likes to expand its missions. Preventing a violation of law at the expense of $500,000, it thinks it can do other things, and will do so, if given the resources. In fact, if given the resources, it will expand infinitely. Listen, folks, I worked there, so I have credibility. I can criticize it if I want to. And let me tell you, all the coffee break stereotypes that you hear, not only are they true, they are not true enough. But they are nice people. So be nice. They just like money for nothing, like most of the world.


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Comments

BTbanker's picture

Great Post.

BTbanker
      IB
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,340
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 1:13pm

Great Post.

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

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frooter's picture

sign me up........

frooter
     
 
(Baboon, 125
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 1:08pm

sign me up........

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inkybinky's picture

I'm a "far right-winger"

inkybinky
      AM
 
(Senior Baboon, 208
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 1:06pm

I'm a "far right-winger" (meaning a rational person). I had the good fortune of working as a teenager in government (as a military brat abroad, there were some work programs that paid half minimum wage to keep us from getting into trouble). That turned me off to it for life, although I have had similar private sector experiences since. Try folding maps for an entire summer when you're 15 if you really want to experience boredom.

I don't think that people in government are "evil" and I don't think that's a broadly held view. Rather, expansive government is evil because it's tyrannical and it kills the human spirit. However, I do think it's evil to push this kind of life onto broader society. So I think that makes certain power players in government evil.

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TNA's picture

Government is formed to

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,710
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 1:09pm

Government is formed to provide collective benefit. The monstrosity we have now is a bastardization of that. We could shrink government, make it more efficient, spend less for it and get more out of it. Problem is no one wants their freebies to be taken away and Congress is elected by people who have vested interests in the government maintaining the status quo.

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batmanCFA's picture

A couple more posts of this

batmanCFA
      AM
 
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 1:25pm

A couple more posts of this quality and I might actually have to shell out for your newsletter. But seriously, very interesting post.

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BTbanker's picture

Just curious. Are you left

BTbanker
      IB
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,340
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 1:38pm

Just curious. Are you left wingers even able to come up with an argument against this guy?

I understand you don't like military spending, and I don't either, but how can you support the entity that let's this kind of thing go on?

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

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fuquamarine's picture

I want all government cut..

fuquamarine
      RE
 
(Monkey, 36
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 1:42pm

I want all government cut.. republican interests, democratic interests, I don't care.. 16 trillion in debt and +1 a year to the debt is too much.. I've personally seen tons of waste in my 7 years of government experience and want the spending to stop.

I've been on government contracts paid 6 figures per year where I literally could work about 20 hours a week and do nothing and nobody would care. Seriously.. I could show up at 10 leave at 2 "work from home" and punch an electronic time card.. there is so much waste.

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mappleby's picture

I don't have your eloquence

mappleby
      O
 
(Baboon, 103
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 2:05pm

I don't have your eloquence or story telling abilities unfortunately because I have some stories that would just make your skin crawl. I just left the world of military acquisitions (research and development and procurement type work) and I can attest to absurd inefficiencies as well. The biggest difference between our experiences is the number of zeros involved. The last two fiscal years my program received between $7,000,000 - $10,000,000 in "fallout" money. The thing you forgot to mention about fallout funds is they are one year money, meaning they legally must be spent before the end of the fiscal year. Normally this gives you less than 30 days to obligate the money. So the funds don't go to the most important projects they go to whoever can spend the money quickly.

Then you have all the useless government employees who basically can't be fired and don't do any real work. Most of the "engineers" in my office couldn't engineer their way out of a wet paper bag. They collect their salary sitting around 40 hours a week staring at powerpoint slides and doing nothing. My office parking lot was empty by 3:30pm every Friday and a ghost town after about 4:30 on any other day of the week. If you aren't bothered by mind-numbingly boring work and being surrounded by incompetence then being a government civilian has to be the easiest job for the money. $70-100k/year with no overtime, lots of vacation days and very little responsibility.

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SpacemanSpiff's picture

The bureaucracy is expanding

SpacemanSpiff
      HF
 
 
(Senior Baboon, 245
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 2:23pm

The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy

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In reply to BTbanker
GoodBread's picture

BTbanker: Just curious. Are

GoodBread
      AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,637
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 2:37pm
BTbanker:

Just curious. Are you left wingers even able to come up with an argument against this guy?

I understand you don't like military spending, and I don't either, but how can you support the entity that let's this kind of thing go on?

OP isn't making any argument all, what is there to counter? It's just a story about working in government. I've worked in government and the financial industry and I have some experience with government bush-leagueness of my own. But I have plenty of experience with corporate bush-leagueness as well. Most back-offices aren't run any better and there's plenty of people who get paid to do nothing at F500s. There are government branches (including at the local level) filled with far more productive, smarter and driven people, on a far tighter budget than in most back-offices. What gets people so upset about this is that this is being done with tax dollars and that's a fair criticism. The problem is that the government does provide some very important services to our country, just like the private sector. Fighting against this kind of waste should be a priority of our elected representatives but nobody on either the right or the left is stepping up to the plate. I mean just look at the Dems and Repubs who got some pork included in the fiscal deal, it's plain embarrassing. It won't be the ultimate panacea but I think campaign finance reform would be a good start on some real changes in this field.

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TNA's picture

Government provides some good

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,710
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 2:45pm

Government provides some good things, but by and large, it exists for its own benefit and to grab more power. We should gut Washington simply because it will hamstring their power grab.

Just look at the who gun control bullshit. The government prosecutes less than half the gun cases it receives. Yet we want more laws which will lead to more cases which will be ignored by the government.

Washington is a cancer on this country and you don't allow a cancer to grow if you want to keep on living.

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RWLforever's picture

Man, I don't know whether to

RWLforever
     
 
(Monkey, 40
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 3:24pm

Man, I don't know whether to laugh or be upset lol.

To add on to this, government can't go out of business; it'll always exist. So when you compare waste in the private vs. public sector, smart businesses will cut the waste because they won't be around forever if they're blowing dough on boondoggle programs. So while I'm sure businesses have waste in their offices, there is incentive to find it and get rid of it or else their company will perish (unless of course you're GM and you get a bailout and can continue to overpay your union employees on ridiculous pensions).

I'm hopeful the right politician will come along and cut all the waste, but in just looking at the hesitancy to cut even PBS, I'm very skeptical and am afraid the system will have to blow up (a la Greece) in order for serious changes to made.

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damn.analyst's picture

Great post. I worked for the

damn.analyst
      CF
 
(Baboon, 112
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 3:33pm

Great post.

I worked for the government as well and come year end it was spend or lose it for next year.

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In reply to GoodBread
inkybinky's picture

GoodBread: BTbanker: Just

inkybinky
      AM
 
(Senior Baboon, 208
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 4:05pm
GoodBread:
BTbanker:

Just curious. Are you left wingers even able to come up with an argument against this guy?

I understand you don't like military spending, and I don't either, but how can you support the entity that let's this kind of thing go on?

OP isn't making any argument all, what is there to counter? It's just a story about working in government. I've worked in government and the financial industry and I have some experience with government bush-leagueness of my own. But I have plenty of experience with corporate bush-leagueness as well. Most back-offices aren't run any better and there's plenty of people who get paid to do nothing at F500s. There are government branches (including at the local level) filled with far more productive, smarter and driven people, on a far tighter budget than in most back-offices. What gets people so upset about this is that this is being done with tax dollars and that's a fair criticism. The problem is that the government does provide some very important services to our country, just like the private sector. Fighting against this kind of waste should be a priority of our elected representatives but nobody on either the right or the left is stepping up to the plate. I mean just look at the Dems and Repubs who got some pork included in the fiscal deal, it's plain embarrassing. It won't be the ultimate panacea but I think campaign finance reform would be a good start on some real changes in this field.

The difference between an inefficient government (sorry to be redundant) and an inefficient F500 company is that government rewards inefficiency and the market punishes it. In other words, a Fortune 500 will see the resources available to it decline if it is inefficient. Government, which is essentially a monopoly that writes the rules and is protected by a military, is indifferent to inefficiency.

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In reply to inkybinky
BTbanker's picture

inkybinky: GoodBread: BTb

BTbanker
      IB
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,340
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 4:21pm
inkybinky:
GoodBread:
BTbanker:

Just curious. Are you left wingers even able to come up with an argument against this guy?

I understand you don't like military spending, and I don't either, but how can you support the entity that let's this kind of thing go on?

OP isn't making any argument all, what is there to counter? It's just a story about working in government. I've worked in government and the financial industry and I have some experience with government bush-leagueness of my own. But I have plenty of experience with corporate bush-leagueness as well. Most back-offices aren't run any better and there's plenty of people who get paid to do nothing at F500s. There are government branches (including at the local level) filled with far more productive, smarter and driven people, on a far tighter budget than in most back-offices. What gets people so upset about this is that this is being done with tax dollars and that's a fair criticism. The problem is that the government does provide some very important services to our country, just like the private sector. Fighting against this kind of waste should be a priority of our elected representatives but nobody on either the right or the left is stepping up to the plate. I mean just look at the Dems and Repubs who got some pork included in the fiscal deal, it's plain embarrassing. It won't be the ultimate panacea but I think campaign finance reform would be a good start on some real changes in this field.

The difference between an inefficient government (sorry to be redundant) and an inefficient F500 company is that government rewards inefficiency and the market punishes it. In other words, a Fortune 500 will see the resources available to it decline if it is inefficient. Government, which is essentially a monopoly that writes the rules and is protected by a military, is indifferent to inefficiency.

Good point. There's really no accountability in government.

Some people will say that about capitalists like Dick Fuld, but the poor bastard is still out of work, and hated by every American. Congressmen don't face any consequences to their actions.

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

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In reply to inkybinky
GoodBread's picture

inkybinky: Government, which

GoodBread
      AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,637
 
Points)
 on 1/15/13 at 4:22pm
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kyleyboy's picture

How much does dirtnap

kyleyboy
      HF
 
(Senior Gorilla, 753
 
Points)
 on 1/16/13 at 6:08pm

I help people with the tough situation of not knowing how to respond to emails.

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In reply to GoodBread
inkybinky's picture

GoodBread: inkybinky: Gover

inkybinky
      AM
 
(Senior Baboon, 208
 
Points)
 on 1/16/13 at 8:29am
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GoodBread's picture

Probably depends on the

GoodBread
      AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,637
 
Points)
 on 1/16/13 at 8:51am

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In reply to BTbanker
TylerT's picture

BTbanker: Just curious. Are

TylerT
      CO
 
 
(Senior Baboon, 227
 
Points)
 on 1/18/13 at 1:49am
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In reply to TylerT
Ron Paul's picture

TylerT: What does appeal to

Ron Paul
     
 
(Senior Gorilla, 916
 
Points)
 on 1/20/13 at 4:50am
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General Rules: Users may not use the Web Site in order to transmit, distribute, store or destroy material (a) in violation of any applicable law or regulation, (b) in a manner that will infringe the copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of others or violate the privacy, publicity or other personal rights of others, or (c) that is defamatory, obscene, threatening, abusive or hateful.

Web Site Security Rules. Users are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Web Site, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging into a server or account which the user is not authorized to access, (b) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization, (c) attempting to interfere with service to any user, host or network, including, without limitation, via means of submitting a virus to the Web Site, overloading, "flooding", "spamming", "mailbombing" or "crashing", (d) sending unsolicited e-mail, including promotions and/or advertising of products or services, or (e) forging any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any e-mail. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. The Company will investigate occurrences which may involve such violations and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting users who are involved in such violations.

Specific Prohibited Uses.

The Company specifically prohibits any use of the Web Site, and all users agree not to use the Web Site, for any of the following:

  • Posting any incomplete, false or inaccurate biographical information or information which is not your own accurate resume
  • Using any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of this Web Site or any activity being conducted on this site.
  • Taking any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on this Web Site?s infrastructure.
  • If you have a password allowing access to a non-public area of this Web Site, disclosing to or sharing your password with any third parties or using your password for any unauthorized purpose.
  • Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, using or attempting to use any engine, software, tool, agent or other device or mechanism (including without limitation browsers, spiders, robots, avatars or intelligent agents) to navigate or search this Web Site other than the search engine and search agents available from the Company on this Web Site and other than generally available third party web browsers (e.g., Netscape Navigator, Microsoft Explorer).
  • Attempting to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software comprising or in any way making up a part of the Web Site.
  • Aggregating, copying or duplicating in any manner any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.
  • Framing of or linking to any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.

User Information.

When you register for the Web Site, you will be asked to provide the Company with certain information including, without limitation, a valid email address (your "Information"). In addition to the terms and conditions that may be set forth in any privacy policy on this Web Site, you understand and agree that the Company may disclose to third parties, on an anonymous basis, certain aggregate information contained in your registration application. The Company reserves the right to offer third party services and products to you based on the preferences that you identify in your registration and at any time thereafter; such offers may be made by the Company or by third parties. Please see the Company's Privacy Policy below for further details regarding your Information.

Registration and Password.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your information and password. You shall be responsible for all uses of your registration, whether or not authorized by you. You agree to immediately notify the Company of any unauthorized use of your registration or password.

The Company's Liability.

As a condition to your use of this site, you release the Company (and our agents and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential, direct and indirect) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes. If you are a California resident, you waive California Civil Code d1542, which says: "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor."

We are under no legal obligation to, and generally do not, control the information provided by other users which is made available through the Web Site. By its very nature, other people?s information may be offensive, harmful or inaccurate, and in some cases will be mislabeled or deceptively labeled. We expect that you will use caution and common sense when using this Web Site.

The Material may contain inaccuracies or typographical errors. The Company makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness, or timeliness of the Web Site or the Material. The use of the Web Site and the Material is at your own risk. Changes are periodically made to the Web Site and may be made at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for the content and accuracy of any resume or material contained therein placed by you on the Web Site and you agree to let any users that are identified as recruiters (designated in the sole discretion of the Company) to have access to your resume.

The Company is not to be considered to be an employer with respect to your use of the Web Site and the Company shall not be responsible for any employment decisions, for whatever reason made, made by any entity posting jobs on the Web Site.

THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE WEB SITE WILL OPERATE ERROR-FREE OR THAT THE WEB SITE AND ITS SERVER ARE FREE OF COMPUTER VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL MECHANISMS. IF YOUR USE OF THE WEB SITE OR THE MATERIAL RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING OR REPLACING EQUIPMENT OR DATA, THE COMPANY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE COSTS.

THE WEB SITE AND MATERIAL ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, COMPLETENESS, OR TIMELINESS OF THE MATERIAL, SERVICES, SOFTWARE, TEXT, GRAPHICS, AND LINKS.

Disclaimer of Consequential Damages.

IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY, ITS SUPPLIERS, OR ANY THIRD PARTIES MENTIONED ON THE WEB SITE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM LOST DATA OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE WEB SITE AND THE MATERIAL, WHETHER BASED ON WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY IS ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Links to Other Sites.

The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

Forum Topics

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  • Can anyone put this in plain English? Trying to figure out how much of the NOLs can be transferred to the acquirer's BS. "The treatment of a target's tax attributes (e.g. NOL) in an acquisition depends on the tax structure of the deal. Indeed, the target's tax attributes may...
    NOLs Transfer on LBO?
  • Hi all - As i have been looking through this site, i have found their seems to be a lack on anything Australian. While that is understandable seeming as the industry is US focused, i thought i'd take the opportunity to try and develop a useful collection of tid-bits and facts by sharing...
    Answering Australian I-Banking Questions!
  • Hi guys, Not sure if this is a silly/stupid questions, but it has been constantly on my mind. I am currently interning at an IB (not super prestigious but not boutique either). It has been a great experience as they are really open to teaching. With this said, what types of mistakes are...
    Internship experience
  • First post on WSO: Looking to move into RE full time. Some criteria: real estate focus with domestic/international travel involved. Do any positions matching these criteria exist? From what I've read, it sounds like IB RE is office based, as are most other positions. I don't mind long...
    Real Estate and Travel
  • I searched the site and realize that most posts about this are very old. I'm looking for current opinions. I've read that people who get into IB through SEO generally get less respect from their peers. My questions are: 1. How do people even know if you got in through SEO or not? 2. Why...
    Question about SEO
  • Thoughts on this? Heister brings up a good question: <em>"Who else is going to the job? Which senior Goldman partner is planning on retiring and needs to shield millions in stock options from taxes?"</em> via Bloomberg: <strong>Obama Says Bernanke Has Been at Fed...
    Bye Bye Bernanke? Who Would Be Next?
  • So I've been thinking about looking into getting a part time internship at an AM firm at my college town during the fall semester to buff my resume up a little more for recruiting. My schedule isn't too tough, and I'd probably be able to do around 20-30 hours a week if I include...
    Part Time AM Internship
  • For those of you analysts that wear glasses or contacts... which of the two would you recommend? Forget about the way glasses look.... for the purposes of comfort and practicality, are one them easier on the eyes at 2am after staring at a screen for 10 hours? I'm afraid contacts might dry...
    Glasses or Contacts?
  • Did a pretty extensive search but there wasn't too much information out there. Can anyone provide some color on the pay/lifestyle/exit opps at internal strategy/M&A desks at BBs? It seems like at some banks, this desk is more of a back office role with very good hours but minimal...
    Internal strategy and M&A at a BB
  • Proposed Answer: The pay is atrocious, there is virtually no promotion potential, and the work is not challenging enough. Is this a good answer? If I was to give one answer, which one is...
    "What is the worst part of your job" interview question
  • So all new users to WSO get 6 free financial modeling lessons, 5 of my best tips for networking and my best tips for interviewing over the first month of being a user. Tonght I got a response from one of my networking tips e-mails from a slightly older gentleman that is a "financial...
    Why is this Quant so Angry and So Out of Touch?
  • Assume no CD experience pre-MBA. My thoughts are that working in CD requires making long-term investments (albeit strategic/operational, as opposed to financial), so it may force one to think like a long-term owner, a la value-oriented investing. If possible, how long should it take in CD...
    Post-MBA Corporate Development --> Fundamental/Value HF ... good path to try?
  • Does anyone have PE recruiting resources they'd be willing to share/ trade? I'm looking for modeling tests (with solutions) and have a few tests from top tier funds to trade in exchange. Any other recruiting resources would be appreciated as well. Please PM me....
    PE recruiting resources
  • <strong>Project description: Finance / Wall Street / Business Writer </strong> We are looking for several talented writers (professionals in the finance industry preferred) to write for WallStreetOasis. There is a list of suggested topics you can choose from but if there is an area of...
    Be a Wall Street Oasis Contributing Author
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Highest Ranked Content

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<em>Mod note: make sure to see the great comment below by CompBanker</em> I come from a small town where nobody had ever heard of consulting or IB. I was fortunate enough to attend a top target college (a good Ivy) and land a gig in IB at a BB/EB. I'm starting full time this...
Finance Culture - Personalities
<strong>Background</strong> I randomly discovered WSO nearly seven years ago just weeks after I secured a FT MM IB position. The website was extremely nascent at the time with only a few thousand registered users. The majority of the users were college students with only a handful...
How WSO has enhanced my IB/PE career
After over one year in the making, the <strong><a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/2013-wso-compensation-report-full">2013 WSO Compensation Report</a></strong> is here! Access to the FULL 108 page 2013 WSO Compensation Report is <strong>100%...
2013 WSO Compensation Report has Arrived
Where do i even start..I learned so much from this forum. The brutally honest opinions, sincere willingness to help, the technical information and random tips on everything has been absolutely crucial for me landing this offer. Coming from a non-target I didnt get that 3rd year SA position at...
Thank you WSO! Got my FT Offer! ADVICE NEEDED
When I first started as a PE analyst, I constantly struggled with judging the amount of time I should spend on reviewing sourced deals. How much time is enough to really get a handle on the company’s revenue streams? How granular do I need my analysis to be on industry threats? With this...
Misguided Efforts: A Cautionary Tale
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
Many of the questions that have come in surround recruiting for front office Wall Street careers from a non-target so we’ll start with some ideas for recruiting, move on to interviewing, preparing for the job and finally long-term career management advice. Before we begin, it has been...
Stand Out as a Non-Target: Recruiting (Part 1 of 4)
Any Asset Management people here who could give me some insights on it, such as the nature of the work, the pay, the hours, the potential for career advancement, ect? I was looking into IB before but I've decided that I would rather pursue a career that's more intellectually...
Asset Management a better choice than Investment Banking?
<img src="//img.pandawhale.com/48721-Sexually-Oblivious-Female-Meme-Ze2w.png" alt="Sexually Oblivious Female Meme - Favorite Position? I would like to be a CEO.">
If you could be the richest person in the world with your dream job only as a public virgin forever would you do it?
<em>Mod Note: Blast from the Past - "Best of Eddie" - This one is from June 2011.</em> <em><strong><u>Freeriding</u> :</strong> The illegal activity of buying a stock and selling it before paying for the purchase.</em> - <a...
Come On and Take a Free Ride
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