Will The Next Legal Flash Point Be Focused California Immigration?
The recent Arizona immigration law has been getting many attention, and numerous experts believe the next battleground for lawmakers may just be California immigration. According to a report from Reuters, Latinos in California - numerous of them illegal residents - are stepping up to protest the Arizona law. Liberals consider tougher immigration laws to be a gateway to human rights violations, while conservatives stand fast in their position that illegal immigration has gone too far. Both groups wonder if California can be the next to crack down on illegal immigrants.
Right from its backyard, California deals with immigration
Supporting amnesty and welcoming the flow of immigrants are California Senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer, who live in San Francisco. Boxer has gone so far within the media as to say she'd be happy if illegal immigrants became legal via amnesty and came to live in her city. Of course any person with a sense for Real Estate prices knows that to support living in San Francisco, you'll have to make a lot more than illegal immigrant wages. With that, take the open-minded invitation from Boxer with a dash of margarita salt. Upcoming state elections will certainly have a major bearing on California immigration.
California has the highest population in the U.S., illegal immigrant or otherwise
The stakes in California would be tremendously high if California immigration law comes into question, particularly because of its large illegal immigrant population. Members of the Latino community, who typically kept from political involvement, are now making their voices hear. From the El Concilio community center in agricultural Stockton, Jose Rodriquez told Reuters that "It is a large number of young individuals, those under 30, who speak English but realize that it doesn't matter that they speak English. It has to do with the color of their skin."
However, as previous G.W. Bush speechwriter David Frum points out, the letter of the Arizona immigration law specifically forbids stopping anybody on the mere basis of skin color. What remains to be seen, George Will argues in the Washington Post, is whether good police officers in Arizona can aid this "worthwhile experiment in federalism" by making properly nuanced judgments regarding immigration law enforcement. If the experiment proves to be successful, California might decide to go in a similar direction.
A changing tide seen among conservatives
U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, a Republican from San Diego County, has called the Arizona law "a fantastic beginning point," but it is nevertheless unclear whether the upcoming California elections will take immigration as a major point of argument. Leading candidates within the California governor's race Republican Meg Whitman and Democrat Jerry Brown agree the federal government needs to take action.
The main concern among candidates, nevertheless, is the possibility of losing Latino vote. If Arizona - which is 30 percent Hispanic by some estimates - can get a majority to agree on tough immigration law, will California follow suit? According to the 2008 census, an estimated 36.6 percent of the state population was of Hispanic or Latino origin, but it is safe to guess that not all of the minority group could be politically active in the California election.
Not gonna happen. There's way too many Latinos in California and Californians are far more liberal and sympathetic to border jumpers.
Its not like in Arizona where its just a bunch of hick white people worried about losing their Wal-Mart jobs to them beaners.
I just don’t understand why people outside from the states tend to think that the US is the “land of opportunity.” Americans’ average daily life to sustain their family is getting tougher (higher costs of living and longer work hours than before) and low-skill jobs are diminishing. This whole trend is going into the opposite direction of that of the 19th and the early 20th century. The groups of people at those periods sought real freedom and had a deep desire to become prosperous with possessing legitimate skills at the same time; most of them contributed to build today’s US. But honestly, I cannot envisage in my mind how today’s immigrants could contribute to the US society (of course with many exceptions, especially for those who have great skills); the high-growth period is over and the population is saturated in the low-level labor market.
I don't see why people can't move to anywhere in the world they want at any time they want. Can't we just be citizens of the world or some shit like that?
I most definitely agree but unfortunately that is not how things work. I do think that California will be wanting to follow Arizona's steps. Do you?
Nope. California has made it pretty clear that they will not be following California's footsteps. While poll after poll shows that most of America loves what Arizona is doing (even though you would never know it from the media), poll after poll also keeps showing that CA is one of the few states where a majority of people are against it.
What I don't understand is how it is ok that Indian and Chinese people have to apply for Visas, get H1 status, register with homeland security, but somehow people from Mexico think it is their god given right to come to the USA without immigrating like the rest of us had to.
I guess the United States doesnt have the right to regulate the influx of people in this country.
I am also so sick of hearing about how bad it is to live in Mexico and how they are just coming to the US for a shot at opportunity. If we are going to allow people who have it bad to come to this country without any effort we better let every single Haitian into the the USA before one mexican comes here.
I am by no means advocating immigrating illegally to USA. However, I would like to contribute a different perspective to this forum:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487043149045752505736715838…
I don't think Mexican's think it is their 'right' to immigrate here illegally. To me, these people are not coming here for the opportunities, but instead, to escape the brutal violence that is present in northern Mexico.
From the article: "In the past few weeks, cartel gunmen burst into the Holiday Inn hotel in Monterrey and snatched guests from their rooms. Drug gangs also blocked the highways leading out of Monterrey, Mexico's business capital. Among the victims of the war: a groom coming out of his wedding, a 12-year-old and his mother, and scores of teens."
This isn't a great place to live, let alone start a business. I read another article in FT recently (I'd post it here but I don't have online access) about gangs in Northern Mexico that will show up at a business 6 months after the business opens and demand payment for 'protection'. This kind of violence discourages economic progress and encourages illegal immigration.
If you were in a similar situation, what would you do: a) Stay in Mexico and live in terror/fear of death at any moment if a gang decides to gun you down b) Try and escape across the border, where even if you are caught you won't be gunned down by American authorities.
The choice is easy... in fact, I'd think it'd be irrational to choose to stay in northern Mexico if you had the opportunity to smuggle yourself across the border.
The fact of the matter is, American teenagers/drug addicts want drugs, and a decent amount of drugs are smuggled across the border. Drug gangs in northern Mexico smuggle in illegal weapons from the States, and subsequently use them to terrorize the civilians in northern Mexico. This violence subsequently encourages these civilians to sneak across the border
Anti-Drug Laws + Lax Gun Regulations + Lax border patrol (to prevent drug/guns/human smuggling) = Illegal Immigration Problem
I am not advocating illegal immigration. I am just saying, any rational person in a similar situation would choose to try and cross the border instead of staying in a region plagued by drug related violence.
The only difference between us and them is that we were lucky enough to be born north of the border.
The US isn't against immigrants. We understand that people want to get out of that jungle. But why not go about it the legal way? Apply for asylum or request a residency permit. There are legal ways to be a foreigner in the US. Why walk in the country the way you or I walk into Starbucks every morning? It doesn't work that way. If we don't have some kind of control, the violent mexicans will continue to follow the innocent ones right into our country.
No on is as hungry as an immigrant.... that why they work 12-14 hour days for minimum wage with no overtime.
The "land of opportunity" was anything but for early immigrants, they made more money than they did back home and in some cases had more freedom but their "opportunity" was limited to working at menial wages in dangerous conditions.
Today's America offers far more actual opportunities. There is much more opportunity available to immigrants today than there was 50 or 100 years ago. In 20-30 years you'll see a much broader array of diversity representing American leadership in everything from business, government and academia. Many top surgeons are Indian, many top tech guys are Asian, many Latinos are up and coming in politics, etc... You see many Asian countries run circles around the US in math and science and electronics... but all the top technology companies are still American... why? Because the enterprising inclination, creativity and limitless ambition are uniquely American. And today's up and coming countries (i.e. China and India) are hauling ass because they are adopting the mentality that has always been uniquely American. There will always be something new that gives us the edge... and immigrants will continue to be, as they have been, an integral part of that.
Take a walk through any Silicon Valley company, google, yahoo, national semiconductor, etc.
It is dominated by Indians and Chinese. Maybe that's why the US is a leader and tech. All the best Chinese and Indian guys are at US tech companies..
I think he’s referring to the founders and people who are in the management position. In that case, I think he’s pretty right.
The problem is that the government didn't fix the immigration problem when it was first getting out of control and now these criminals actually feel entitled to be here. The fact that an criminal feels he has the right to not be pulled over by the police just shows the ego we have allowed these people to develop. I do think Cali is next with cracking down on illegal immigrants. Cali is broke and the last thing they need is to continue to pay for people who don't even belong here.
The problem is an American born Latino and an illegal border jumper look identical. You can't pull someone over just because they look Latino. You may think the illegal Latinos don't have rights, but the legal ones do. If it was so easy to distinguish between the two than we wouldn't have any problems to start with.
If you pull a Latino over for speeding and ask him if he's an illegal immigrant, its akin to pulling over a black guy and asking him if this car is stolen or if he has any drugs on him. How do you think they would react?
I agree with you here. Last thing I want is an increase in police powers and random stops. That is absolutely not what America is all about.
That being said, there needs to be some sort of processing going on to discern between legal and illegal. We have a right as a nation to control and at times stop who is coming into this country.
The bill states that you need probable cause AND that race does not count. Thus, if cops pulled over latinos and asked if they were illegal, would be easy to get thrown out in court.
The bill simply puts Federal law into state use.
It works like this basically: Person pulled over for speeding. Cop asks for driver's license. No license. Checks if illegal.
My point is that these Indian and Chinese people are very fucking proud of where they come from and if its between kicking ass at a US company or at a Chinese/Indian company, where are they going to do it?
My point is that its not possible (or less possible) to do it in India/China because they're are missing that one essential element that acts as a catalyst in propelling America to the top of the food chain.
totally agree with kools....we should all be cosmopolitans
Agree with LIBOR. Rights and entitlement is a secondary concern if your everyday battle is safety and survival.
Whats the solution then?
More border control? Maybe an American-Mexican partnership in promoting economic prosperity in our neighbors house? Promoting American businesses to open satellite offices in Mexico? Its hard to improve safety and reduce violence so such rampant corruption. And without that type of stability, as you mentioned, no one is going to want to have a business in Mexico which will make everyone want to come here.
If there was a big time serial killer problem in my town and, in response, everytime a white person (i.e. myself) got stopped by police the police performed some extra check against the evidence they had on the serial killer (since most serial killers are white), I personally wouldn't a give a shit nor would my "human rights" be violated.
But ok, since we can't come to an agreement and since it's become more important in the Western world to protect the feelings of minorities than common sense itself, here is the solution:
A mandatory check on ANYBODY that gets pulled over to check if they are here legally or not (the same way anybody pulled over is checked to see if they have warrants out on them). Me, you and Raul Ramirez, we all go through the same process. This way, everything is equal, no one group can claim that their feelings are being hurt...and it actually takes power out of police hands at is takes away police discretion. It's as much a check on the police as it is on the person pulled over.
Do I think it's bullshit that a 75 year old Irish grandmother who gets pulled over for going too slow is going to be screened to see whether or not she is a citizen? Yes, but since "feelings" are so important to everybody and immigration has become such an endemic problem in this country, I'm willing to make that sacrifice. The same way I think it's bullshit when an 80 year old Chinese woman in a wheelchair goes through the same checks at an airport that certain other people do...however, it's better to screen than not to screen and if we have to appease people in the absence of common sense, then let it be.
So says RebelCross.
I completely agree that Mexico is not a great place to live in and is very violent. I do not blame these people for trying to come here, if I was cold and hungry I would probably become lawless also. That being said, I think Haitians have it worse than Mexicans. If we are going to make the argument that things should be lax (not saying that anyone right now is saying that) because life is tough then I firmly believe we should have a list of "I come from a sucky country" and work our way down.
If you are in Mexico, please feel free to apply for a visa and come on over. We are a nation of immigrants, the majority of us having passed through Ellis Island. You want to be an American then start acting like you love this country and respect and obey our laws.
Well yes, Haiti would be a terrible place to live.
From my understanding, US gov sets quotas for immigrants coming from Mexico, as well as most other countries. Why do they set these quotas? My best guess is that politicians are against letting more people in because their constituents think that these people 'steal' American jobs (this is quite untrue; these people are just willing to work jobs that American's refuse to do for minimum or less wage).
Is the quota system ethical? Sure, the quota system might be law. However, not all laws are ethical (see Nazi Germany). To me, why should a Mexican follow or law if he/she thinks it is unethical?
We should let all the Mexicans come over. That way our country will be full of Mexicans and they will turn the US into the thriving shithole that Mexico is now. Just look at East LA...its done that place wonders.
^^^^ It's not about a law being ethical or not. If the law states that foreigner must register and apply for a residency permit, quota system or not, that is the law of the land and if someone doesn't like it they should stay in their country. Nobody is asking anyone to come here so if a foreigner has such a problem following the rules, he should be on the first thing smoking back to his home. Imagine if everyone broke the law bc they found the law unethical?? Imagine the shit show that would be
Latino's that are actually American citizens should support the laws on cracking down on illegal immigration. If illegal immigration wasn't so out of control, then latinos wouldn't be accused of being illegals. They might have to deal with some bullshit for a little while, but eventually they would stop getting accused of being an illegal once we got the border under control.
That being said, most of them probably won't realize this so I don't see California cracking down on illegal immigration. They're already trying to boycott Arizona for their immigration law, so I'd say there's a slim chance of them coming up with their own.
http://overmountainman.newsvine.com/_news/2010/05/19/4309477-cooling-of…
Great article.
Everything gets twisted and politicized. Makes me sick. Only thing Arizona is against is Illegal immigration. Really sucks that we have a president who could careless about securing our southern borders. We, as a nation, have finally reached a point where we simply cannot take care of the whole damn world. America sucked at one point in time, but you know what, we worked hard, fought wars and made this country great. If anything we should stop illegal immigration because it is a source of slave labor in the USA. You know what happens when we dont have Mexicans to pick our fruit? We invest in machinery to do it instead. Simple as that.
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