2008 First Year Associate All-in Comp
I'm curious, once 2008 bonus numbers have been announced where do you think $140,000 will fall within the "all-in" range for first full year (not stub) Associates.
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I'm not an associate, but from what the associates told me at the BB I worked at during the summer the following was standard for a first year:
Salary: 100+ Signing: 50 (for b-school candidates, analyst promotes got less) Performance: 100+
Those were the 2007-2008 #'s, so adjust accordingly. 140 seems low, but the market for associates has completely changed.
Associates get a 50K sign on? Man, the discrepancy between an associate's sign on and analyst's sign is just way too large and for what I have no clue.
associate sign on this year at my bank was 50 plus 5 for end of summer bonus plus another 5 for signing before a certain date. so total was 60
so stub year should look something like 60 plus august, sept. , oct. nov. and dec. salary plus a stub bonus which is usually around 40k (give or take)
Then first full associate year which is what people should be referencing when they say "first year associate" should be 95+ salary for the year plus about 150k bonus. this was for good years. not sure what the numbers will look like street wide this year. i bet the range will be a lot more broad accross the street this year.
I work at a BB here in NY, and I have no clue where you guys are pulling these numbers from. At my bank this year, associates (first year) got paid 95k plus 25k signon bonus. Not sure what their stub bonuses were but I doubt it was anything to brag about.
I agree with IBNutz's numbers. At my old bank, 3rd year analysts who were direct promotes to associates had the best deal. 3rd year bonus, 1 month off in the summer between the analyst and associate stint, 50k sign on, stub bonus in December and a salary bump.
yup..agree with IBNutz and herserendipity
Moneykingdom..sign ons at ur firm were only 25k for associates? What the hell did analysts get, 1K?
We're about to enter a Great Depression. Don't you want a president who's already dressed for it?
Actually the new analysts (those who will start in June) got 10k and the Associates got 25k. We only hired Associates who interned with us this past summer and I know they got 25k. Maybe they got additional "relocation" bonus that I am unaware of.
I believe the question is about an associate who has already completed his/her stub period thus discussion about stub bonuses and sign-on benefits are irrelevant. The question is also not asking about 2007 comp which is obviously not a relevant benchmark for 2008 comp.
If you assume the associate's salary is at market, $95,000, an all-in number of $140,000 implies a bonus for the Jan 1, 2008 - Dec 31, 2008 period of $45,000. This bonus amount would likely be equal to the stub bonus the associate received in 2007. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any hard numbers to confirm whether this $95K + $45 construct is fair for this year so I can't be of much help.
Does anyone have information that would be relevant here?
read the posts on deal breaker...seems like associates are getting about 80-120 2008 bonuses
Why has so little information regarding 2008 comp been leaked to the street?
Typically at this point in the year people are circulating spreadsheets that contain the various buckets at each bank.
Because there isn't much to brag about. When people got bonuses they felt good about they were more apt to peek over the urinal wall to see what their neighbor was packing. They would even lean back a little so everyone around them could see their donkey dong. But when you a have tiny banana, so to speak, you already know you're just going to get a punch in the gut when you see a 4 and a half inch Asian compared to your 3 incher and you tend to huddle closer to the wall so no one knows.
But as Monkey3030 said, that is irrelevant. The OP asked about an associate's first full year bonus in 2008, which means they joined the bank after graduation in summer/fall 2007.
That person would be getting 95K base, and would have had a 45-50K stub bonus last year, depending on desk/group.
Last year the full-year associate bonus in IB was around 200-225 from what I've heard (for S&T went from as low as 80 to as high as 300+). So that's the basis for comparison. If numbers are down this year by 50%, give or take, then you're probably looking at between 80 and 120 bonus. Which would put all-in comp in the 175-215 range.
With that as your point of comparison, now start plugging in whatever you've heard from 1st year associate friends this year....were they in fact 80-120, or not?
Thanks skins1, I appreciate the response.
Can anyone confirm this range, preferably through personal knowledge rather than assumptions?
I can tell you for a fact that this year's signing bonus for summer associates signing at our bank was 60... thats 50 signing, 5 end of summer bonus, and 5 for signing earlier than a given date.
call BS if you want. i'm just telling it how it is. if you're really at a BB and you're calling BS then call one of the guys who did a summer in your group and ask them what they got. if they got less than what i'm stating by more than 10k then they are lying or they got fucked or your bank sucks
I can concur with what regicide and IBnutz said with my sources, though early signing bonus was 7.5k. So 40+10+5+7.5, or 62.5k for 'signing'.
60K signing bonus? I don't understand why there has to be such a huge difference between an analyst's signing bonus and an associate's signing bonus.
Lol seriously...can we a get bump?
This could be totally wrong, but I think the psychology of Associate signing bonuses being $40-50K is that the firm is essentially paying for your second year of business school.
One reason this may be is to entice someone to switch firms/industries if they are sponsored. E.g. I have a friend who is sponsored by a MBB consulting firm: his first year is definitely paid for, but his second year is only paid if he goes back there full-time. He is planning to try banking for the summer and, if he likes it, would probably only go for banking full-time if the signing bonus is roughly comparable to what the consulting firm would cover. If he was choosing between a 20K IB signing bonus and $50+K of tuition/expenses covered by the consulting firm, then he would not be likely to accept the banking offer.
For other students it could replenish savings, reduce loan burden, etc. Keep in mind nearly all business school students pay for it themselves, in one form or another. I understand that many undergrads take out loans, work through college, etc. but I don't think the firms feel it is as important to cover their tuition. There is also virtually no need-based financial aid or work-study available in business school—i.e. you are paying for the full burden of $100K+.
I will be a 2009 MBA grad heading back to BB full time for S&T. Everyone got 5k end of summer (including those who didn't get an offer), 5k for those who signed and had spent the summer there, 12k for relocation and 40k for signing.....so total of 62k if you were a summer hire. From what I've heard from classmates in banking it was similar, except if they had offers from a certain group they had a deadline. If they didn't sign by that date they got thrown back into the general pool....not sure if there were financial incentives tied to that also. As for stubs and next years numbers I think it is anyone's guess.
its cool.... good discussion here.
indian banker.... the reason associates are paid more (in my opinion) is because the bank is making a longer term investment (they hope) when they invest in an associate.
if you're an analyst you'll probably go off on some rant about how you know more than your associate and all that but what i'll say is most (not all) of the analyst to associate promotes in my group (i'm really thinking of only 2, out of 2, so i should have said all) are really immature for first year associates (too young) and they don't have any business experience outside of banking. as a result they aren't as prepared to make the step to the next level when you start to have to call on clients (makeing the move to senior level VP and above). one of my MD's once said that the analyst promotes a lot of times tap out around 3rd year associate for this very reason.
now, on the contrary, i can say i know more MDs in my group who were analyst promotes than just 2 guys. but the majority of MDs in my group have MBA's or some experience other than IB analyst prior to their associate/VP/MD years.
anyway, i am sorry for ranting on this but i wanted to answer indian banker who is obviously bitter because he knows excel better than his associate. hey... the indians in the presentations department know more than me about powerpoint but they aren't going to get promoted to VP anytime soon.
skins... i know its crazy. some of the first year VPs in my group were pretty amazed at the growth in the signing bonus number since they signed on.
we will see what happens... how safe are those offers? how safe are any of our jobs when you come to think of it?
i'm glad i atleast have a year of experience on wall street on my resume if this thing falls apart for me. i'd trade that for a little extra signing bonus int he grand scheme of things
Haha, I'm no analyst, and I'm in trading not even banking and my excel skills are average. I was just wondering why the huge difference existed but you answered the questions fairly well.
Anyone have any info on what 2nd and 3rd year Associate bonuses will look like this year? Thanks in advance
BUMP......BUMP......BUMP......BUMP......
Any updates?
Any JPM update? According to Dealbreaker, numbers came out today.
bump
our corpfin dept. minus analysts just got numbers today and I can say that the overall mood took a sharp nosedive -- I have heard no numbers though.
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