3.4-3.5 GPA at Wharton
Let's say I'm a Wharton junior, gpa between 3.4 and 3.5 (can round to 3.5 at this point, but rounding is apparently discouraged by career services and starting next semester I may be unable to anyway). Excellent work experience directly related to IBD, decent EC's.
Do I get past the 1st round resume screen for BB's? Analysts have referred my resume to HR at a couple banks, but of course this doesn't guarantee anything, and my impression is that this doesn't mean too much anyway.
you're fine
no chance, transfer to a target school
You should be fine, but how much grade inflation is there at Wharton? Are there tons of kids with 3.8s and 3.9s or is 3.4-5 pretty competitive with other students?
Wharton has a pretty strict curve.
3.4 GPA is low for wharton, no doubt about that
Non-subtle brag.
not really, 10% of the class gets beta gamma sigma, and they tend to have 3.8+.
BB's interview 40-50 people each, and if the Wharton class is 500 people...could be reason to believe that the 3.8+ kids will crowd out everyone else. but just hypothesizing.
Not sure about Wharton, but a friend of mine who's an econ major in the college said a 3.7+ was expected for BB jobs this year.
You're pretty much like like Johnny Manziel. You don't even need to go to class, bro. Your future has already been determined.
Is it usually the HR picking the resume or the Analysts?
First of all round to a 3.5- there is no bigger .1 difference than that between 3.4 and 3.5. Seems arbitrary, but 3.5 is a big cutoff number- anything below they might not even read your resume. If you have good work experience and network your ass off, you have a solid shot. There is no way they are doing a straight GPA cutoff and taking the top 10% GPAs. Additionally, the above rested on the assumption that every student in the Wharton class would be applying to each bank, which I have to believe is not the case. You've put yourself in a bit of a hole with the lowered GPA, but I'm sure you can get interviews. That said, there may in fact be a few banks that do not look at anything under a certain GPA, but this would likely be the exception to the rule.
How is investment banking viewed at Wharton? Do the best students choose to go top BBs or elite boutiques if given the opportunity? Or do they try to get into private equity?
I only asked this because I met someone at Wharton that said that most students didn't think that highly of IB, and everyone tries to get PE and use IB as a backup. Or is this kid full of shit?
I mean, if they are that set on PE they are going to be very disappointed to know the small number of firms who take analysts out of school...
Startups are a pretty hot thing right now. Everyone is either trying to join one or start their own. BB IB is still considered highly prestigious. A senior I know of rejected an elite boutique for UBS IBD. When I asked about job security (since UBS laid off half their analyst class), he said he's not too worried about it... mainly because he thinks he'll do better than his peers since he did undergraduate business. PE is highly sought out at Wharton, even more so since firms like TPG, carlye, etc. are recruiting undergraduates for the first time. But honestly, whoever is telling you IBD is a backup is full of shit. Anyone, even wharton kids, with an IBD job in this economy should be grateful, considering that the industry is downsizing and that recruiting was even worse than last year. Apparently, the people who didn't get a return offer from their summer internship (or did one for that matter) were pretty much fucked for recruiting this year. What I don't understand about this forum is that users think wharton students can write a ticket for what firm they wanna work for. Most of the people getting the tippy top jobs like goldman TMT, Morgan M&A, TPG, Blackstone are M&T or in some sort of dual degree like huntsman. The rule of thumb is that 50 percent of the wharton class gets some sort of front office job (S&T, IBD, PE, consulting). The other 50 percent get fucked over.
I think we always forget how fucking small the FT classes at banks are. 60-70 kids, 8 BBs, then 30 between a couple elite boutiques. 700 kids total? And you've got maybe 15 legit target schools with 300 kids dropping resumes each, minimum. Plus the non-targets...
It's so, so competitive, but everyone thinks they're an above average applicant, so they're the exception to the rule.
Okay everyone here really over-evaluates Wharton and target schools in general. Yes Wharton's a great school but a 3.4-3.5 GPA at Wharton is pretty low, especially when your peers have a 3.7-3.8. You are definitely going to have to network to get an interview. One of my closest friends goes to Harvard and thought he was set b/c he had a 3.5 from the big H. He ended up getting an interview at 2 second tier banks with dings from the rest.
Thanks for the input everyone. Can anyone confirm just how much weight an analyst forwarding your resume to HR holds?
Yea, I would bet a 3.4 is pretty average- particularly if, like you said, classes are curved to a 3.33.
I don't know of any intro classes that are curved to a B+ at Penn. Maybe higher level electice classes like stat 430/431 are curved to a B+ since everyone in those classes are smart; however most of the core classes like stat101/102 and acct 101/102 are curved to a B or a B-. Science classes are even worse. Chem 101 is curved to a C+, biol101 and phys101 are curved to a B-. Penn in general has pretty bad grade deflation compared to other ivies.
Guess the relevant question is, "Does the 'average' Wharton student get first round interviews with at least half the BBs?" At most targets, no. You need really good WE, or a spectacular GPA, or both. But I don't know Wharton.
The average GPA for a wharton grad is around 3.3-3.4, saw it during one of the schools info sessions. The top 10% typically all compete for the same pe/hf sa/ft positions that recruit (tpg, carlyle, bain cap, sankaty, silver point, silver lake, ccmp, warburg pincus, leonard green, ares, citadel, de shaw, bx, gsip/ssg, etc.) There are also some aspiring consultants thrown in there as well. This leaves me to assume that the avg wharton grad gets at least one BB first round interview, and the bottom third do get skipped over.
Where do those Wharton kids end up, if they strike out at IB/ consulting/ S&T? Does a finance/business degree from Wharton help placing kids into at least F500 corp finance type of roles?
I went to Yale, majored in Econ, had a 3.1 GPA. I applied to all major banks that recruited at OCR and didn't land a single interview. A ton of kids from my school who had below 3.5 GPA graduated unemployed.
Luckily, I was able to land a decent consulting job months after graduation, but I can tell you those several months weren't a very pleasant experience.
if I were back in college with a 3.4-3.5 ish GPA, I would try anything in my power to raise the GPA before OCR, and network like my life depended on it. That GPA range isn't where you can just sit and relax. Most kids I know who landed BB IBD or top consulting had 3.7+ GPA.
Guy at McKinsey I had coffee with one time was a Wharton undergrad, graduated unemployed. Spent 2 years playing in an indie rock band and sleeping on dirty mattresses in Brooklyn. Said he played guitar and looking back, he's pretty sure he was drunk at least half the day, 6 days a week. Eventually sobered up, landed a job at a small-ass healthcare consulting shop and ended up going to Stern for an MBA. Now he's at McKinsey.
I know it doesn't really answer your question, but I thought that was baller as fuck.
That guy really is baller. Maybe I should go for an MBA 2-3 years down the road... only thing holding me back from MBA is that COA and opportunity costs are ridiculous, and I am not sure I can leave my decently cushy job and incur 150-200k debt for a chance at a 'better' job..
At any rate, what I am wondering is whether a B.S. from Wharton can still hold its luster outside IB/ consulting/ S&T, compared to Econ/ humanities B.A. from other Ivies.
From my observation, a sub-3.5 GPA at any Ivy, if you were majoring in non- CS/ engineering, was basically the kiss of death as far as getting high paying jobs were concerned. in this economy, even a 3.5-3.6 GPA, imo, is a dicey place to be going into OCR.
2 years after graduating college, I still have nightmares about my GPA. Only if I knew back then how important the college GPA would be for my career.
damn, you only need a 3.8 at wharton to get summa. it must be either really competitive there, or their latin honors aren't that difficult to achieve. summa is supposed to represent the top 1-5% of students right?
https://spike.wharton.upenn.edu/ugrprogram/policies_forms/acad/graduati…
damn, you only need a 3.8 at wharton to get summa. it must be either really competitive there, or their latin honors aren't that difficult to achieve. summa is supposed to represent the top 1-5% of students right?
https://spike.wharton.upenn.edu/ugrprogram/policies_forms/acad/graduati…
[quote=dukebanker12]damn, you only need a 3.8 at wharton to get summa. it must be either really competitive there, or their latin honors aren't that difficult to achieve. summa is supposed to represent the top 1-5% of students right?
https://spike.wharton.upenn.edu/ugrprogram/policies_forms/acad/graduati…] 3.8 is definitely more than 1-5%.....
I know several people with low 3.0s that got interviews at wharton for BB/boutiques/prop shops, so you are not left in the cold. If you have a 3.0 and no work experience or extracurriculars, then you should worry. Also, probably around the top 5-10% is 3.8+
I don't go to Wharton, but I do go to another top target. With a 3.4 in a 'softer' major (non-engineering/math/CS/Science), I landed interviews at every single BB and elite boutique. Ended up getting offers from 7 BB's and 2 EB's. Here's my take on all this GPA nonsense: it isn't as important as people make it out to be (if you're at a top target). Yes, the people with 3.8+ don't have to work as hard as people like me in terms of networking to land the first round interviews. But once you land the interview, people really don't care much about the GPA. There are tons of kids I know with 3.3-3.5 GPAs at my school that at least landed interviews. In fact, the highest GPAs did not (always) end up at the best firms.
Look, if you're at HYPW, the interviewers know that you're generally smart, and that having a 3.4 instead of a 3.6 can be a function of a lot of different things (tougher curves, smarter classmates, taking harder classes outside of your major), and if you show demonstrated interest in their firm through networking sessions and phone calls, they'll be happy to give you a chance. I see so many posters above saying "Oh well if you go to Wharton and have below a 3.7 you're screwed" - and that couldn't be farther from the truth. You have a huge advantage by being at a target - don't let that slip away. Talk to people, connect with alumni, and make sure you land those first round interviews. After that, if you demonstrate that you're more capable/sociable than the kid next to you with a 3.9, they'll take you over him 99% of the time.
To provide some resolution to this topic, I got multiple offers from top BB's and elite boutiques. Ended up accepting an offer from an elite boutique. I had a 3.5.
That being said, I would say that as a general rule, GPA matters more than experience for 1st round SA interview selection - at least at Wharton. I networked and had a convincing, well-written resume (latter point is key), but my friends with great GPA's and mediocre experience got more interviews than my friends with the reverse.
Of course, once you get the interview, relevant experience and knowledge of the firm / industry help more than GPA to the extent you can talk intelligently about them.
you're fine. as a fellow whartonite who made it past two years at a top group (and also reviewed resumes), i can confidently say that people understand the difference between a 3.5 at wharton and a 3.5 at a non-target.
If you don't mind sharing, what is considered a "Great GPA? at Wharton.
I'd also like to weight in here. I'm a junior in Wharton as well with a 3.9+ GPA and prior relevant work experience. I really do think people overstate the "wharton advantage." I had friends (white/indian/asian males...obviously =D ) with really high GPA's who did not network and got a limited number of interviews. I also had friends with 3.5 or 3.6 GPA's get top BB offers because they networked well and more importantly, I think, came off as cool, genuine people in their interviews. I ended up getting a top BB offer and accepted it and turned down second rounds at most other BB and elite boutique interviews I had. However, people certainly came out better than me. At the end of the day, here is what I truly think is the case with recruiting:
*Regarding the curve at Wharton, it really isn't hard to get an A if you study. The average grade in all Wharton courses, is a B+. In upper levels, it can go as high as an A- curve. My upper level accounting courses have all been curved VERY well. Now, if you think about it, about half the class probably got into Wharton through means that...ahem...were not so meritocratic. Put another way, almost all of my friends at Wharton have a 3.5+ (and I would go further and say have a 3.7+). I certainly am not a genius. When I first took the SAT (without studying), I got like a 1800 on it. I then studied and got it over a 2300, but I'm just a hard worker, certainly not brilliant by any means.
**then you should round lots of first rounds
When you show up to the interview, I really think it comes down EXCLUSIVELY to if your interviewer likes you or not. It doesn't matter if you've spoken to 30 people at the bank (you could mention that to show interest of course). It only matters that you make those 2 people who are sitting across the room like you. I highly recommend the M&I fit guide for that. Also, I knew all my interviewers coming into my top BB interview. It was pure luck, but I did. If you happen to know your interviewers before hand (through random...or not so random networking), you should be set. However, at my interview with GS (I am not working for GS, unfort), I had spoken to my interviewer before hand (and before I knew he was my interviewer) and the call went horribly. I felt he was more socially awkward than I was, but for obvious reasons, I more or less knew I was fucked when I walked into the room, and I did not get a second round. One of my good friends also spoke with this guy before and somehow had a great call with him. She is now working at GS for the summer....
Technicals are overrated. Yes, I had interviews at Silver Lake and all BX PE, RR, and M&A and at those places, it probably mattered how well you knew your technicals. However, I memorized and understood every word of all the sections of the M&I technical guide and, with a few exceptions, the questions I was asked were way more advanced than in the guide. I don't think this is specific to Wharton as my friends at Harvard received similar technicals at these places. At places like CS, you get easy technicals. You should get them right, but for the love of God, don't waste your time trying to study the advanced stuff in M&I. Huge waste.
So, at the end of the day, I don't think interviews are too formulaic. Sure, you can memorize some of your talking points for the fit questions and I do think that saved me at a lot of the places I interviewed at. However, I don't think there is any magical resume/formula you can follow before you walk into your interview that will lock it up for you. I also don't think there's anything you can really say in your interview that will make you a sure thing. It's all about personality and how well you pass that painful airport test. However, again, I don't really consider myself a genius or a particularly cool person. Yet, at the BB I ended up accepting, they told me afterwards that the interviews I had were all just airport tests (I wasn't asked a single technical) to see if I would fit in well with the firm culture. If I had heard that would be my interview beforehand, I would have said no way in hell I'm getting the job, but I somehow did. So, just always keep up the faith in these interviews!
GPA needed at Wharton (Originally Posted: 04/30/2010)
Hey guys,
Well, I am a prefrosh about ready to enter Wharton and am a bit concerned about my GPA. I am in a dual degree program at Penn (LSM) and have heard the program (along with Wharton) is fairly grade deflated. So, what kind of GPA would I need out of here to get interviews with the BB?
Thanks!
1 LSM is not a dual degree program. It is a joint degree much less a joke. It's only 40 credits. You take 5 classes a semester and you got it.
2 Why is it grade deflated? You take even more college classes to boost your GPA. Much less if you study your butt off in Wharton you wil be fine.
Stop worrying.
3.8+, usually 3.95+ for targets and 4.0 for non targets. could be as low as 3.7 with an MD connection
^Ummmm, no. I've seen lots of 3.5-3.6s from Wharton and other targets. A non target probably needs around a 3.8+ to have a shot.
I sincerely doubt spacejam was being serious. Sarcasm doesn't carry well in words.
LSM is not so bad if you do finance and biology. i think you have the option of doing chemistry and physics as well; that would obviously be harder.
regarding GPA, you will probably need a 3.7 to get interviews with okay places (without connections). for interviews and for an in with the top places, at least last year, a 3.8+ was more or less a necessity.
whats ok places like DB or more like houlihan?
both DB and houlihan are considered okay, Citi also gives out quite a few interview spots because it is so big, so Citi is an "okay" interview to get, even though they are probably a better bank in general.
Dont worry, just study hard. If you find it hard to party and study at the same time, you can just drop the LS arm and stay with the M, which if you have a 3.8+ in, you will get pretty much all the interviews you want,.
you're a prefrosh. you haven't yet stepped foot in your dorm room or washed your own laundry yet. The last thing you should be worried about is your job interviews in a few years.
i just graduated from Wharton, and you can do extremely well with a 3.5-3.6. friends of mine with below 3.6 had interviews with BX and GS. That being said, 3.6 is about as low as you can be for the top banks.
dont waste your 4 years of college at Penn stressed out about your job. work hard, party hard, and the rest will take care of itself. thats why you go to Penn.
is ther a big difference btn a 3.5 and 3.6?
hey spacejam go back to gridley. you know u want to hump that tramp stamp
Big difference! 3.55 is the absolute cut-off for ok-jobs also. I know someone who had 3.5498 and got the ding because he missed the cut-off. I also know someone who had 3.5491 and had his offer revoked because he rounded to 3.55. True stories.
^ As said before, sarcasms don't carry well in words. That said, I'm assuming ur being sarcastic.
4.0 or your life is over
Why don't you just try to get the best grade you can in each class?
In some circles if a Wharton guy has not completed at least level 2 of the CFA by the time he gets to school for freshman year, he can consider himself toast. Might be better off looking at Wal-Mart, I here they have a great management program.
Wharton GPA for MBB (Originally Posted: 01/20/2011)
Whats the chance of getting a first round coming out of wharton with very math oriented coursework and a 3.5-3.6 GPA?
What about BBs?
I recently applied through on campus recruitment
You should be fine. Know a friend who had a sub 3.5, didn't network, and got an SA offer from MS's menlo park tech group. He said he just really hit it off with the analysts at the superday. His only prior experience was an unpaid position at a relatively small quant hedge fund.
Furthermore, while I'm sure networking helps - at Wharton a lot of it is pretty institutionalized. Obviously for the elite PE shops and boutiques it helps tremendously but in a lot of cases they'll simply tell you go to go through the formal recruiting channels.
this is for a junior year summer internship btw
x
.
GPA is a very small portion of the overall picture. If you focus too much on the academic side of your achievements, it's gonna be real tough to break into an MBB.
what about a pretty low GPA, but fairly good achievements/extracurrics/work experience? I'm talking 3.39 here...ugh I need to quit this wishful thinking...ocr is so stressful.
Consultant_banker_89 - honestly, it is all possibly. 3.39 is low for consulting but it isn't game over yet. Focus on networking, speaking to alum, and with that - landing an interview. Once you're in the interview room, it's a level playing field and as long as you nail the case, you have a genuine shot.
Still, ideally you need to get your GPA somewhere above 3.5, not gonna lie.
Possible*
MBB, unlike BBs, interview a couple hundred kids for first-round interviews at targets. The first-round pass rate is very low; if you make final rounds, you typically have a 50-50 shot at an offer. This reflects faith in the consulting world that the case interview is really the best predictor of job performance. So relative to banking, getting a round 1 interview is easier, and making it past round 1 is harder.
At Wharton though R1 MBB is likely pretty selective. Figure if the UP class size is 2500, McKinsey will probably get ~1000 resume drops. So even if they're interviewing 300 people, you've still got to be better than the person on your left and right.
Wharton GPA (Originally Posted: 02/24/2011)
Long story short, I have a shitty Wharton GPA, like very shitty. I was wondering if I should transfer to Penn's college, i am 99 certain I could get a 3.8 plus there if i majored in like english lit. People at some BBs told me they could probably pull my resume but I need to get over a 3.3 min.
Isgetting the GPA worth losing out on the Wharton name / skills ?
Why would you leave Wharton? That seems silly. Why don't you just work harder to bump the grades up there, maybe take an extra couple classes in summer / another semester to make up for where you weren't performing well?
Retake classes to get grades excluded from GPA? talk to the dean of your school/major figure out what to do (let him know your a late bloomer)? go the compassionate/medical withdrawl route there are many things you can do if you plan right and put in the foot work. Most important do not take no for an answer there is always som1 higher and som1 nicer.
how are you sure you can get 3.8+ at the college if you have a low gpa at wharton?
Yeah that sounds like a load of bull, Wharton isn't that much harder than SAS majors. What you should do is pull up your grades, get a MM internship, and leverage that into BB full-time if that's your goal.
Why would an BB want to hire an English major?
Honestly dude, a 2.5 at Wharton is probably better than a 3.5 at a non-target.
That is very debatable. I would rather take someone that possesses work ethic over the lazy kid with a high SAT score any day.
Break your xbox 360 and your GPA will increase. simple. If your saying that you can't work harder and get a better job then why would you get hired if you can't work harder to produce higher quality work? This is so stupid your going to leave somewhere you are doing bad to go someone else to do better, but still try to get into the same door? You are lazy work harder, story over.
just get your grades up... because you're at wharton you should be okay so long as you can get above like a 3.0.... you're not gonna get hired by GS out of undergrad... but you'll figure something out and be fine.
stop taking so many bong hits, young skywalker.
Send me your transcript and I'll cross your name out and write my name on it and apply to banks.
Stay at Wharton....Do your best at Wharton. Leaving Wharton is too risky...
I'm still a freshmen and I'm gonna make things happen either way, all I'm trying to say is, the more prestigious the name on your resume is, the easier it is to make things happen.
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