Best way to break into the world of finance?

I went to a state school (3.3 gpa, got NSF grants, etc.), did some contract work in my field (archaeology), and have been working for a law firm as a secretary/assistant/paralegal for almost two years now to see if I wanted to become a lawyer, and I do not. Accordingly, I'm looking to change careers again. However, I'm not sure exactly what part of finance I want to do.

I think I would be decent at trading (had a 10% return from knowing nothing about stocks a little over a month ago, but the S&P 500 has had a similar run), but even better at consulting. I've streamlined workflow in my office, built filing systems from scratch, and am looking at the possibility of starting a business.

What would be the best way to break into the field? Take a job as a admin assistant, show potential and hope, or go straight for the consulting/trading job?

 

I would say that your best bet at this point is go to B-school. Where you stand right now, you're not going to get a lot of opportunities in any area of finance with your background (unless you have some unbelievable connections). Going to B-school is a pretty common way to switch gears and get into finance coming from an unrelated field.

As far as trading vs. consulting, just going by the info you gave us I'd say that consulting sounds like it would be a better fit for you than trading, as trading is very quantitative and is much more about programming these days than stock picking.

 

You seem to be in a similar position as me except replace law with economics.

Nix on consulting and probably IB. The rule of thumb, that I have found, is that the less actual qualifications are needed for the job (hey in consulting you just talk to people and work hard!) the more necessary it is that you know the right people and come from the right place. They need a way to weed down the applicants and if technical ability is not needed then they'll filter by pedigree and the ability to kiss behind. As far as IB goes, if you haven't been doing internships from the beginning forget M&A, although depending on your research ability you might try Equity Research. Stay away from PE and VC; that is a whole bunch of cold calling for two years before you can build your book.

Ok, trading. What you want to try and do, and what I am currently doing God help me, is apply for a Trading Assistance-ship. You'll be coffee bitch for the first three months at least but after about a year they let you trade on your own account.

First apply to the big firms out there and see if you get any call backs (although you probably won't);

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/best-proprietary-trading-firms

Next apply for everybody else and cross your fingers:

http://listofthe.com/finance/list-of-prop-firms/

Some notes:

If they ask you to put money down (couple grand or whatever) DONT! It's more or less a scam and the company makes money on the guys losing their chips at the bottom (See PYRAMID SCHEME)

Look for all the places that will pay you a base salary or have a careers section. If they don't run far away. See above.

Find out what a firm specializes in. A firm that is very good will probably specialize in repackaging a product and selling it to the bigger boys for essentially free money. This is called being a market maker. Also, many firms specialize in a part of the trading world - the High Frequency trading firms do HF (obviously) but as such will probably want someone with much more mathematical experience than you. Equity options, FX trading, Fixed Income, Derivatives are some but not all of the different specialties. If you can't get into the best firm, but you can get into the best on FI, then that's really good.

On the above note, everybody has to trade. If you can't get into a prop trading firm, try hedge funds and mutual funds and sign up for all the careers that have trader in the title. It might help you get your feet under you.

And I can't stress this enough. Stay away from bucket shops, or any place that is in any way smelling of scam. Always know what the take home is net of fees or you're going to shoot your dick off.

That's all I've got. Best of luck to you, because as I always say, it's smarter to be lucky than lucky to be smart.

the illustrious monkeysama

 

Zer0zero, you are correct. I should have prefaced it as "I knew nothing..." All I did was read one book, skimmed another, about trading stocks, and set up the account simply as a practice run (while I was reading the books). In terms of knowing the markets inside and out, I still know almost nothing given how vast the subject matter is. However, I believe I am capable of learning - and the account was set up as a learning tool. I believe, if I somehow got a job trading, that my strengths would be in identifying trends, and being able to cut through the noise. However, I also realize this particular style of trading is not in fashion at this time as more traders rely on 'blackbox' trading.

Further, I was not a mathematics major, or even majored in a "hard" science. Instead, my major was Anthropology - the study of cultures, and, ultimately, being able to identify similarities, differences, trends, and relationships among different groups of people. A skill that I believe is easily translatable to the business world, particularly in emerging markets, but also domestically.

Given the above facts, that is why I believe I would most likely be a better consultant than a trader.

 

You'll definitely get further in consulting with an anthro degree than you will in IB but that isnt saying much (Think: the difference between the front door and the lobby). But that being said, its not impossible, shit there is a VP at PNC that started as a teller while studying for his CFA. Just gotta get on the grind.

PS 10% in an account of fake money isn't fantastic and you may not want to mention that in your resume, interview etc

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

Hi Tyler, although I don't have as much life experience as you do, here's my 2 cents.

The finance industry is huge and rewarding. You need to figure out which part of it appeals to you. Do you like doing operations (helping the sales people manage client issues) or being the sales people themselves? Or perhaps somewhere in between managing the risks or helping the organization comply with certain regulations and laws? Of course I have just touched the tip of the iceberg as to the possibilities in finance.

On this site you will find many useful sources. My advice is to only take the dive if you are convinced or have a goal in mind and not do it for the perceived sense of money. Many other things make lots of money too - tech, entrepreneurship, marketing, etc.

Also a CFA is a bad idea if you do not know what you plan to do with it. It is a very niche and costly designation, both on the pocket and on the clock (thousands of dollars and 600-900 hours of studying) and its assuming you pass it all in the first try (very difficult) if not be prepared to add on more costs to the above.

Good luck!

 

I will let others give you the advice you need since I'm not qualified to do so, but I should let you know that your network is a great asset. Make sure you keep in contact with them, ask them questions frequently (without being annoying) about breaking into finance, and generally just make sure that they can see your dedication, ambition and love for finance. It will go a long way.

 

Thanks, I plan on staying in touch with all of them. Usually we just shoot the shit about things like sports, ladies, and anything but finance but when I do ask them about the markets, career advice, or how they got started they all are more then willing to talk my ear off which is nice.

 

At the risk of sounding mean, Step #1 is to understand where you want to go. AM isn't half the things you listed. AM is basically running/managing mutual funds and similar products (ETFs, SMAs, Etc.) The advice given is highly dependant on where you want to go.

If you want a back office job in AM, sit for your charter. It's brutal and no guarantee. Something like 19% of people who begin the program ever get to put "-, CFA" after their name. Even after that it took me almost 2 years to break into AM. If you want sales, then network, network, network.

The only difference between Asset Management and Investment Research is assets. I generally see somebody I know on TV on Bloomberg/CNBC etc. once or twice a week. This sounds cool, until I remind myself that I see somebody I know on ESPN five days a week.
 

As you already mentioned, it's easier to get a foot into the PE industry and then enter the IBD of a major bank or an EB. A typical way is to try to get an interview at KKR/Blackstone/Apollo/w/e and then leverage this experience to get an M&A internship. Maybe you even make important business contacts you can use to get an M&A internship offer.

 

Two prop trading firms that I know of that you could apply to and possibly interview with are Chopper Trading and Rho Trading, both in Chicago. You'll work night shift at the beginning and start out as an assistant, but it's a start.

Some of these guys will tell you that since you didn't go to an Ivy League School and haven't had an internship with a major bank that you have no shot, and they may be right. That's where you have to decide and make your own path to success. Start out in the finance department of a company, learn the ropes, make some contacts, and then go from there. That's what I'm trying to do right now, and it may be working. I've been able to meet many business people who've become friends.

Go on monster and look at finance job in cities you're interested, get some interviews, and hopefully land a job. That's my advice.......

 

Are chopper and rho market making firms? Do they require you to put down capital, or not pay a salary? I haven't heard much about them and there are a lot of shady trading companies (outside of big namebrand firms such as JSC, SIG, etc.) that just bleed people dry. But if you know or have heard good things I'll definitely look into those two. Thanks for the reply.

 

Chopper and Rho do pay a salary- a low one (around 40k-45k I think) with small bonuses. The work probably won't be too exciting, but you can work your way up to a trader.

As for them being shady, I really can't say. There isn't much information about either of them out there, so it's hard to find out, and maybe that's a sign. Send them your resume and call up the next day- you should be able to talk to someone. Judge it from there.

 

Sounds like a good plan, good luck.

Some advice 1) take one step at a time 2) get good grades(you MUST get a 3.7 or better in order for someone to notice you from that non-traditional background). 3) develop relationships with your professors

 

Either MBA or slant your resume as much as you can towards finance/accounting and go for CorpFin. Try to do CorpFin in a top company in a relevant industry. Perhaps you can leverage that industry knowledge to get a market related job down the road.

I'll do what I can to help ya'll. But, the game's out there, and it's play or get played.
 

Wait, you've been employed for 12 years, have an MBA and are looking for an internship?

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

I think that if you apply to an internship and someone sees your qualifications they will probably wonder what the hell is going on. Then throw it away.

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..
 

Prepare on your own so you know what you're talking about in interviews. (If you can get them)

Either you're slingin' crack-rock, or you've got a wicked jump shot. There's no honor in taking that after school job at Mickey Dee's, honor's in the dollar, kid.
 

I think you should continue doing what you're doing unless you have a serious reason to consider a career change, such as you are dissatisfied with your current job. Moving into finance requires lot of hard work, time investment, and it does not guarantee success. There's a big chance you'll just waste a lot of time and not end up earning more than you are now. Also, if any of us knew how to make lots of money fast without working long hours, we wouldn't be on this website reading about finance. Haha

 

Bachelor of Commerce finance = BComm Fin AD I assume?

What type of computer engineering are you majoring in? If you have experience with MS Excel and even MS Database, a lot of Big 4 accounting firms (in the US think Deloitte, PWC, Ernst & Young, and KPMG) will hire comp eng majors to work in their advisory dep. which is comparable to a corp fin role.

I know a couple guys that were majoring in comp eng that worked for big 4 in these roles and eventually learned enough to get into more of a finance roll.

PM me if you have any questions.

 
futurewallstguy:

Hello Folks,

My gpa is around a 2.7 and Sometimes it can be very depressing to see kids getting the analyst internships because they go to big schools and come from wealthy families.

troll?

Really? you have a 2.7 and you are complaining about how you are screwed because you aren't rich and don't have family connections?

I am at a nontarget with no connections and not being rich and no connections is not an excuse. Your GPA as a finance major is not helping your case either.

Check out FLDP programs. There are a ton in Texas.

 

you have a 2.7... kids aren't getting internships over you because their parents or their school. (well, its not the only reason...)

Rather than complaining about other people, look for ways to improve your own position. Get better grades, find unpaid internships, do anything, and keep networking. If you actually have the passion and drive it will show and something will work out.

 

Not trying to be a dick here, but I think you need a dose of reality. Although in extreme cases having the right connections can guarantee you a job, usually only gets your foot in the door, after that it is still widely up to you to secure the job. Unfortunately I have to tell you some hard news that despite your seemingly judgmental and "the world isn't fair" view, the reason you aren't getting call backs is no one's fault but your own. By this I mean, if you knew that you had no family connections -- "your parents wouldn't be able to do anything for you" -- and you have "100% passion for investment analysis" why didn't you put any effort into it during undergrad? You can say you have all the passion in the world, but actions speak louder than words. Why didn't you take it upon yourself to go out there and create your own connections and network of people. Furthermore, why didn't you apply yourself more in school to get a decent GPA. Although you didn't say that you didn't I also imagine that you never did any SA programs or internships related to finance of any kind. All of these things are big red flags that say ultimately you aren't committed. Even if you now finally are, that doesn't mean you deserve to get call backs because there are tons of candidates who have been hustling all through out undergrad and have worked for it.

Good luck getting into an MBA program or passing your CFA exams with that attitude. I am not saying that sometimes life isn't fair, it's certainly true that after a certain point it really comes down to who knows who, but in your case it seems to be a complete lack of effort.

Sorry if this comes off harsh, but this forum is littered with people trying to make it in finance who are having just as much difficulties in finding a job, but at least have for the most part worked their butt off and are just waiting to be given a shot. I suggest you try and find one of these people either in person or even just by pm and try and explain to them why you deserve to get a job more than they do.

tldr; Stop whining, you are your own problem.

 

With a 2.7 GPA it's unlikely to get anything through regular screening or applying online. You need to talk to your school alumni as soon as possible. They are your only chance to get your foot in the door. Try unpaid internship first. Prove yourself and get a FT position that way.

 

I'm not sure if this a serious post but I'm going to assume that it is.

First, the liberal, hippie narrative of the world being divided down class line and according to pedigree simply isn't true. You're not a serf and the people working in finance are not all counts and dukes. Most of the people who work in finance, and in practically every industry for that matter, come from middle-class families. Next, the industry is just very tough/selective right now, and your meager GPA is hurting you. Hell, I'm having a hard time and I graduated with a much, much higher GPA. And finally, my only suggestion to you is to study really hard for your GMAT and network like a mofo. There's plenty of free material available online, especially over at the GMATclub forums, in case you can't afford the prep books.

Good luck

“Elections are a futures market for stolen property”
 

I've met people who went to complete non-targets and had no inkling of how finance works or what investment banks do, instead spending their entire four years partying and doing the bare minimum to get by and taking whatever shortcuts necessary, yet as graduation nears, they think they're the shit and getting the most prestigious job at GS is a piece of cake.

OP, unfortunately you sound like one of those people, even if you aren't. You messed up college, so if you still want finance that badly, you'll have to shell out for graduate school or study your ass off for the CFA.

 

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