Accelerated MBA: MBA right after undergraduate, good or bad for Ibanking?
(Senior Baboon, 197
Points)
on 12/27/07 at 3:31am
They are some top business programs now offering accelerated MBA programs that you can get right after undergrad. Would firms consider fresh undergrads students with MBA'S for positions as an associate or would they start them as second year analyst. I have been hearing talk about MBA'S having a harder time getting into associate positions without prior work experience in Ibanking. When they mean prior work experiences do they mean full time or can it be summer-internships as well.
So overall would these students have a harder time getting a job than a person who had applied straight out of undergrad.
Thoughts please!
Typically incoming Associates
Typically incoming Associates will have at least 3-4+ years of experience if they're from a non-finance background or were Analysts if they are coming from finance.
I would not recommend doing one of these accelerated MBA programs you can do right after undergrad - your chances of getting an Associate position afterwards are pretty low.
In general, these
In general, these "accelerated" MBA programs are not a good idea.
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Your chances of an associate
Your chances of an associate position is ZERO if you do an MBA (whether accelerated or not) without prior work experience.
Further, you do not need prior finance experience to get an associate position, as long as you have 3-4 years of good work record. Many of the associates in my class do not have prior finance experience.
bad
career killer
If you went to a nontarget
If you went to a nontarget undergrad and then do one of these you could potentially get yourself into an analyst program, though you would have to play the game alot. Could give you a 2nd chance at analyst FT recruiting.
honestly, no - no bank would
honestly, no - no bank would hire an MBA student from a top-ranked b school as an analyst. the only such cases I've heard of are the MBA students from Indian schools but they are hired as analysts in international offices.
I know some guys who did the accelerated program from kellogg and columbia. They got offers at BBs but they had solid work experience before MBA.
Don't do it...
I did it, but I initially entered the program so that I could finish the MBA program and enter law school. I backed out of law school and have been struggling to find a positin within investment banking. Granted I have been applying for analyst position and not associate positions and still have yet to find a job in Chicago.
One pieice of advice is that if you do enter the accelerated program, you should primarily target MM/Boutique shops because they have seem to be the most responsive within the industry. The BB's will not even know what to do with you seeing as you don't "fit" the model candidate. Too experienced for analyst on paper and too underqualified for an associates position. Unless you have some family contacts, it will be an uphill battle.
Remember you can do what you want, but always try to play the game with the odds in your favor. Go get some work experience, B school will always be there.
"Your chances of an
"Your chances of an associate position is ZERO if you do an MBA (whether accelerated or not) without prior work experience."
you can submatric at wharton and go right to associate.
Its not impossible. Look at
Its not impossible. Look at that Wharton MBA resume book floating around somewhere in this forum, some of the submatriculates have landed summer associate positions without any full time work experience.
thanks for all your post
does summer internships count as valid work experience. And can you request to start as second year analyst knowing they would not want to put you with the associate class.
wouldn't do it, but there
wouldn't do it, but there are banks that will give a look to post b school/law school kid without work experience as a 3rd year analyst.
Well
Its not impossible. Look at that Wharton MBA resume book floating around somewhere in this forum, some of the submatriculates have landed summer associate positions without any full time work experience.
That was in the tightest labor market in recent history, similar to the days in late-2000 when we were hiring anyone with a pulse. The market has changed.
It's not dissimilar to the question about lawyers and the type of credit they get when they come over. Everyone points to the outliers, who managed to become very senior MDs. What people fail to recognize is that the road is littered with bodies of guys who came over in good markets, only to be taken out back, lined up against the wall and shot when markets turn down.
My group hired a half dozen lawyers back in 99-00 when associate recruiting was tough. None of them made it through the downturn. We've got a few now who made the same jump in '05/06/07. I'm not making any bets on how many of them, if any, are going to collect another bonus after this year.
Genghis, I've a question -
Genghis, I've a question - why don't lawyers make good bankers? are they bad at quant stuff?
A bit unrelated but...
Gheghis, I was recently accepted to a couple of top 10 MBA programs (like Kellogg). I don't have too much work experience (3.5 years by matriculation), and am coming from a field that is not consulting, banking, or engineering.
I would love to head into banking, but am wondering whether candidates, like me, are short on experience? I'd be willing to start off at a MM or Boutique, anything, really, to get my foot in the door.
I am planning to take the CFA I this june. Any thoughts for prospective bankers like me?
lawyers
Genghis, I've a question - why don't lawyers make good bankers? are they bad at quant stuff?
It would be a gross over-generalization to say that lawyers are bad at quantitative analysis or more prone to failure than MBAs.
I only note that they have a high failure rate after transitioning from a biglaw M&A practice.
Why is that? Here's my observation. The greatest contributing factor is inexperience. Or directly applicable experience, at least. Most lawyers making a lateral transition negotiate a 2nd or 3rd year associate slot, which they generally consider to be "taking a step back" given the number of years they spent at a law firm. Even so, it makes financial sense for them because they will still end up ahead in terms of comp, and far ahead in terms of comp acceleration in future years.
However, they suddenly slot into a roster where they are being compared versus associates who have had a couple of years to figure out where the landmines are. The MBAs have had time to figure out how the models work, what analysts do that can blow them up, what MDs look for when checking work, and how to work the system (everything from how to get the best results from Production/Presentation to who to call when you have a question about tax).
Senior bankers make judgments very quickly. And they rank on a curve. Inexperience hurts, and your peers have a few years of "trust equity" built up with their previous work with those senior bankers. Lateral associates from other firms face the same issues, only they have fewer things to learn. In many ways, it's a race against time - can you get up the curve far enough to be considered on par with the associates who have a two year head start on you, before the moment that the shit hits the fan and necks start appearing on the chopping block?
That's the issue. And not having a finance/analytical backgorund doesn't help.
The pimp move to go to law