I will be attending NYU Stern as a full-time MBA student starting this August. I thought this is a good time to share my career path, MBA application process, why MBA, how to choose your target schools, etc. I learned a lot from the posts of many accomplished professionals on this forum and hope to have this opportunity to give back to this great community. Quick background:
- English is not my first language. I came to the United States at the age of 15 - I studied statistics as an undergraduate at a public university in California - Have work experience in insurance and bank risk management, in a consulting capacity - I have no graduate degree. I passed a few actuarial exams and am a CFA level 3 candidate I applied to Booth (Chicago), Columbia, Johnson (Cornell), Stern (NYU), and Tuck (Dartmouth), all round 1 / early decisions. Adding some advice / takeaway from my MBA application process: 1. Start Early Yes, we all dread the essays, they are indeed the most painful part of the process, in my opinion. However, researching schools and filing out the actual application are surprisingly time-consuming. Most of us apply to at least three schools, so start as early as you can. 2. Gather information for the actual application Although each schools may ask some unique questions, below are some of the materials you should gather: - all previous job and current job descriptions (present the job content that maximizes the transferability to your post-MBA career goal) - short-term / long-term goal - salary and bonus amount - amount of salary and bonus increases you have received - promotions - reason why you changed jobs - volunteer / non-profit roles and responsibilities 3. GMAT Get the right study materials. You should get recommendations from others too. Here are my recommendations: - Math and Sentence correction: use Manhattan GMAT - Critical reasoning: PowerScore Critical Reasoning Bible - Reading: you just have to read a lot (read the stuff that does not interest you, for me that's science, so I read a lot of American Scientist, start pretending to care about how volcano was formed and why different kinds of ants behave differently). Do a lot of problems. Pinpoint your weakness. After every practice problem set / mock exam session, keep a spreadsheet of the problems you got wrong and figure out WHY. You should focus on understanding more about your weaker sections. 4. Be yourself or … internalize whom you want to be When you go to bschool info sessions or campus tour, you will get the advice of “be yourself” from current student and people from the admission office. As much as I think this is a great advice, I am sure there is a significant number of aspiring MBA students who are gunning for a career path that looks unreachable in the eyes of elite business school admission committee. So you worked in operations at Goldman Sachs for five years and now want to go to Wharton to break into hedge fund, what do you do? Be yourself? Remember you are competing with thousands (literally if it’s Wharton) of banking analysts, some of whom have done private equity, who also want to get into buy-side. In the eyes of admission committee, who looks more likely to break in? I would suggest coming up with a career path that is more reachable, preferably a track that your dream school has a competitive edge in (for example, for Tuck, it’s health care apparently). To make it believable, start thinking every day that you want to do health care after MBA and craft your essays and application around that goal. By interview time (hopefully your entire application is convincing enough to get you an interview), you sound convincing that health care is what you want to do. Once you get in, try to break into hedge fund all you want. This is a controversial and risky advice, but MBA application process is a competitive one. Present yourself in a way that gives you the best chance to get in. 5. Prestige doesn’t matter Everyone, I repeat, everyone wants to get into the so-called MBA business schools">M7 schools (Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, Booth, Sloan, and Columbia? I am not sure). There are only that many spots and competition is global. They are ranked highest by some website, but they will not equally help you get into your post-MBA field. Do your own research and build your primary sources by reaching out to current students on LinkedIn. Not only will they be passionate about helping you since you are interested in their future alma mater, they can also be a resource for you down the road if you maintain and cultivate the relationship, knowing that they will have gotten into your dream field. GPA 3.1 / GMAT 720
Why did you choose Stern and what is your MBA goal?
My post-MBA goal is to break into equity research. I have lived in New York City for the past few years and don't really want to move unless I have to. I liked Stern people and the school has a strong finance curriculum. Alumni presence in finance is strong.
What's your experience in the actuarial field and why did you decide to not pursue the field further?
Pro: My first job out of college was in the actuarial field (in consulting) and it was a fantastic experience. I developed solid Excel and PowerPoint skills and met great mentors who taught me the importance of possessing soft skills in the corporate world. The work was intellectually rewarding and passing exams gave me a sense of career progression that also came with salary increases, which is an industry standard. If you are good at networking and telling stories, you can also exit into other technical fields such as quantitative finance or big data work.
Con: I discovered that actuarial profession was too specialized for me and would lead me down a path where I don't get to understand a business as a whole. Even though the profession is lauded as one of the best career paths, the work can be dull and you can get pigeonholed into a role where you crunch numbers for life without the chance to move into the executive suite. Lastly, the credentialing process (which takes 5-10 years after undergraduate to complete) sure turns away so many aspiring students from considering actuary as a career option.
I'm currently in the actuarial field, and am feeling your cons list from the first person right now. Over the last year I've realized that I don't want to stay in this field. Did you feel like the MBA was your only way out? I'm currently looking for new non-actuarial opportunities, but I feel like I'm extremely pigeon holed...
Can you give me some tips on how you prepared for GMAT and any insights on how to do well? Thanks
Certainly.
First, get the right study materials. You should get recommendations from others too. Here are my recommendations: - Math and Sentence correction: use Manhattan GMAT - Critical reasoning: PowerScore Critical Reasoning Bible - Reading: you just have to read a lot (read the stuff that does not interest you, for me that's science, so I read a lot of American Scientist, start pretending to care about how volcano was formed and why different kinds of ants behave differently).
Do a lot of problems. Pinpoint your weakness is very important. After every practice problem set / mock exam session, keep a spreadsheet of the problems you got wrong and figure out WHY you got them wrong. You should focus on understanding more about your weaker sections.
With hard work, you will do great.
I will give you a tip without having ever attended Stern: Take EVERY SINGLE CLASS (Corp. Finance + Valuation) Prof. Aswath Damodaran teaches. They will be the best (most valuable) classes you will ever take. He is the best fundamental finance guy in the world.
Thank you for the advice! I definitely plan to.
thanks for taking the time to answer questions!
Happy to. Thank you for providing this platform.
so basically you know more excel than the average accountant and took some exams that are harder than the CFA
what else should we know about you?
Ah, just to paint the full picture so that you can complete your stereotyping, I am Chinese :)
I work in actuarial right now. You'll never meet a group of more talented and less ambitious people.
I agree with you. Actuaries are very content with where they are, especially when they become credentialed. Job security is unlikely to be an issue in any economy as insurance products need to be priced appropriately and reserves need to be set adequately. The turnoff to me is that most insurance companies, hoping to save money on real estate, are not located in big cities.
Actuaries are very smart. However, like many other technical professions, communication and selling skills are just nor as much of a focus on the job. Down the road, actuaries with communication skills can afford the flexibility of transitioning out of a purely technical role and get to make strategic decisions for the insurance company (or consulting firm).
No matter how many distributions you know or how many statistical modeling techniques you know, the C-suite folks only care about: is this a profitable business to get into? The same sure applies to the insurance industry.
I feel like being an actuary is a better career than most high finance jobs, even if you dont pass the exams you can still build out a nice career in the insurance industry doing a plethora of other things whether it be analytical related or corporate finance.
Finance has upside if you're the kind of person who is a world beater, but lets face it..you're just another asian dude whose good at math.
I'm a current actuary, going through the same process. What field were you in (health, P&C, pension)? How many exams did you pass before deciding to make a change?
I was in health benefits consulting (you can figure out how many companies are in that business). I passed all the exams required for the Associate designation, but did not do the self-study modules.
I wanted to break into finance long before I started the actuarial exam process. I thought I could spin my actuarial experience to sound like finance-related work and that got me to New York City. The rest was all aggressive networking and gaining knowledge by reading and informational interviews.
Are you thinking about transitioning into another field?
Very similar story to yours except I only passed the first 4 exams and work in pensions. I was planning to be an actuary long term, but realized there's a lot I don't like about the job so I'm making the switch to Investment Banking. I'm already in a graduate program and will hopefully be changing jobs soon.
Currently an applied math undergrad who was originally pursuing an actuarial career as well (2 actuarial internships, 3 exams). Interesting to hear about someone from a similar career path wanting to make the career switch! So many of the same reasons for me wanting to make the switch out (attending MSF next year). In my internships, I couldn't believe that amount of complacency within my colleagues......
Congratulations on getting into MSF! I am a biased obviously, given that I left the profession. Actuarial is a unique field as it's relatively hard to break in and companies invest a lot of money in you to get credentialed while you rotate between departments, if you are in an insurance company. You get the personality type who is not overly aggressive (in your word "complacency", enjoys doing math and some programming here and there, all while getting paid for passing excruciatingly painful exams. Very soon into the process, you realize the work requires so little theoretical knowledge learned from those exams. I just think young professionals need to be situated in a role where you get to understand the bigger picture of a business sooner than later. Actuaries get too detail-oriented until very later in their career and then they still serve as merely a specialist. It's really the guys who do simple additions and subtractions (at most some multiplication and division) that make the big decisions that impact the strategic direction of the company, because they understand what really drives a business.
It's important to explore all your options. I definitely did not realize that what I studied does not have to relate to what I want to do for a career. College career centers will just sell you the options that are typical for your field of study. I think we ourselves should be more responsible for all the options we can pursue before making the first big career decision - the entry-level job.
Are you actually of the opinion that prestige in business and life does not matter? You believe that you will have the same opportunities/network of someone graduating from HBS? And that someone say getting there MBA from a 25-30ish ranked school will have the same opportunities as you?
Right or wrong - prestige matters quite a bit. Obviously, sure its technically possible to break into any job. But not too many people at Goldman Sachs, KKR or McKinsey without a prestige schooling background.
It does not matter to me personally. I just want future candidates to not blindly apply to schools just because they are prestigious. For example, I applied to Tuck and Cornell, I was waitlisted by Tuck and accepted by Cornell. Honestly, had I been accepted to both, I would have hesitated to choose Tuck over Cornell for my interest in finance, even though Tuck is perceived to be more highly ranked and more prestigious.
Prestige in school matters, if you want to work at prestigious companies, especially in investment banking / private equity and consulting where the top firms are filled with Ivy Leaguers, UG or MBA.
Chinese-American actuary here with 5 exams working at a large US health insurance company with almost 3 years of experience. I am also interested in going to get a MBA after I finish FAP and become an ASA.
Which schools accepted you? Any advice for an Asian bro? Should I even bother getting my ASA? Should I just focus on getting 720+ on GMAT?
Know why you want an MBA and how it will help reach your career goal. I advise against getting an MBA to "figure out what I want to do".
Only insurance people know actuarial credentials. If you aren't planning to work in insurance, I say don't bother, especially if you are paying for FAP yourself. The difference between "passing 5 exams" and "ASA" in your bschool app is negligible.
I don't want to share with you particularly which schools I got in, as I already feel you are looking for quantitative cutoffs for schools, when there is none. For GMAT, I think it's more about getting past 700, for ultra elite schools, I think it helps to get into the 740+ zone. Check the website of schools of your interest for the average GMAT of accepted students. Do know when bschools say they look a candidate "holistically", they do mean that.
About the "Asian" thing: Focus on differentiating yourself. There are so many of us who were STEM major, passed lots of professional exams, know programming languages, but that's not what bschool is looking for. Instead, highlight your soft skills. Volunteer and take on leadership roles at your volunteer organization, get promoted in your company, have your recommender speak on your leadership potential, etc.
Actuarial Science - ask me anything! (Originally Posted: 07/17/2014)
I'm trying to break into finance but I did actuarial science before... so I'm kind of paying it forward by helping ppl first since I'll be asking for finance help soon :) ask me anything :)
I graduated from actuarial science and have a few years experience (intern and full time). On the P&C side doing valuations, if that matters.
Note: Don't know if this is better here or in the Other Careers part.
what area are you interested in? transition from actuarial into fp&a/corporate finance within your current employer shouldn't be hard at all
How is P&C? What is the day to day like? What constitutes the majority of your workload? How many exams have you passed?
I'm currently a RET intern, and while being an actuary is my backup, I am growing disillusioned with ret pretty quickly. I've passed P, FM, MFE, and C since the start of my junior year and think I can finish up my ASA during senior year if I need to. What would the entry level P&C look like? Thanks!
can i ask you what ret is?
ret = retirement
We basically consult plan sponsors on how to fund their pension plan and take care of the gov req'd paperwork and any benefit calculations the client thinks are "difficult". Plus the occasional special project, but due to interest rates this year it's mainly Bulk Lump Sum offerings. Oh and liability projections for the new dumb mortality table.
I am very curious to know what the step-by-step process of developing a P&C product is like? I know actuarial science involves a lot of math and actuaries need to pass a series of exams. But how much math from those exams is actually used in your day-to-day work?
In addition, how is the price setting process conducted? What tools do you use at each stage? How is the work divided between your team members? What external participants are involved at each step? Oops, I seem to have asked a lot already. But thanks in advance.
What are the different areas within actuarial consulting? There seems to be so many different roles/divisions -even more than FO Finance.
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