Admit to HEC Paris - Masters in International Finance (MIF)

Hi, I have an admit to HEC - Masters in International Finance (MIF) program for Sep 2013. Can someone please give their opinions / experiences Reg the course, Job opportunities for international students (any stats) & about the Visa Policy of France.
My profile :
UG-B. Tech Mechanical (Indian Institute of Technology, Indian)
Work ex - 22 months -Deloitte Consulting (Projects in Strategies & Operation and Technology)
CFA level 1 cleared - Level 2 in June 13
Your opinions are highly regarded & appreciated
Thanks

 

First of all, congrats; its a great programme, you should not have much issues getting a job in France, given you manage to secure a work visa.

A study visa will not be a problem tho, HEC is VERY well known in France, the immigration office shouldn't make much fuss. From which country are you from btw? India ? (visa can take some time to issue, so start the process soon).

From the two friends ive got that went to HEC recently, I can tell you that its quite intense due to their grading system. They have this weird curving system that makes everybody compete with each other like crazy. For example: If all your classmates get a 18/20 and you get a 16/20 you fail the exam because you are "below class average". Its brutal.

On a personal/lifestyle level the HEC crowd seemed quite nice and party-going ppl, so make sure to go to these "networking" events during the first weeks of the semester ;)

 
16rl:
First of all, congrats; its a great programme, you should not have much issues getting a job in France, given you manage to secure a work visa.

A study visa will not be a problem tho, HEC is VERY well known in France, the immigration office shouldn't make much fuss. From which country are you from btw? India ? (visa can take some time to issue, so start the process soon).

From the two friends ive got that went to HEC recently, I can tell you that its quite intense due to their grading system. They have this weird curving system that makes everybody compete with each other like crazy. For example: If all your classmates get a 18/20 and you get a 16/20 you fail the exam because you are "below class average". Its brutal.

On a personal/lifestyle level the HEC crowd seemed quite nice and party-going ppl, so make sure to go to these "networking" events during the first weeks of the semester ;)

Just to add to this, you will have to know/learn basic level French to qualify to work in France. I had a friend who did his MIM at HEC and he faced this issue. I guess you have another 4-5 months before you leave. Try going for French classes if you can.

 
16rl:
First of all, congrats; its a great programme, you should not have much issues getting a job in France, given you manage to secure a work visa.

A study visa will not be a problem tho, HEC is VERY well known in France, the immigration office shouldn't make much fuss. From which country are you from btw? India ? (visa can take some time to issue, so start the process soon).

From the two friends ive got that went to HEC recently, I can tell you that its quite intense due to their grading system. They have this weird curving system that makes everybody compete with each other like crazy. For example: If all your classmates get a 18/20 and you get a 16/20 you fail the exam because you are "below class average". Its brutal.

On a personal/lifestyle level the HEC crowd seemed quite nice and party-going ppl, so make sure to go to these "networking" events during the first weeks of the semester ;)

Hi 16rl, Thanks for the reply. Yeah what I am worried is about the job prospects after the course keeping in view of the dynamic Euro crisis. When you say "you should not have much issues getting a job in France, given you manage to secure a work visa ", Do you mean that Work permit is first given then you can search for a Job ? Usually it is other way right ? First you get a job which will sponsor the work permit. So everything depends on job prospects ryt ? How is the situation for International students in that area like you any stats specific to International students ? Appreciate your time.
 
crossroads:
Hi 16rl, Thanks for the reply. Yeah what I am worried is about the job prospects after the course keeping in view of the dynamic Euro crisis. When you say "you should not have much issues getting a job in France, given you manage to secure a work visa ", Do you mean that Work permit is first given then you can search for a Job ? Usually it is other way right ? First you get a job which will sponsor the work permit. So everything depends on job prospects ryt ? How is the situation for International students in that area like you any stats specific to International students ? Appreciate your time.

Yes, indeed it is the employer that will sponsor your visa, sorry my bad. What I meant was that since HEC is a highly recognized school in Europe, employers will most likely be willing to sponsor you. Also, I heard that HEC has a lot of contacts with firms and a great internal job-post website for current and HEC graduates.

 
torreador:
It is a very good course. However, not sure if you should attend it given that you have 22 months of work ex in consulting. Depends on your ultimate goal. PE Shops in India worship ex consultants. Maybe you should try there and then head for an MBA in a couple of years. I am just saying this as I am from India and have a similar background.
Hi Torreador, Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate the heads up Reg the french. Yeah I am also kind of stuck in that alternate way .. But given the high cost of MBA & have to wait for 2 more years & then 2 more years !.. I am thinking. Btw where do you work ? I would like to speak to you, Can you PM me your mail id as I am unable to PM you !
 

If you are not French, just forget it and try to go the UK ie. This program is decent but I will still say it sucks. Why? You are competing against all the people who are actually doing the usual post prepa school. They are bunch of arrogants people who believe they are the best because they did a prepa. They dont do shit in school but still because France is an elistist system, you will get f

This is my opinion, probably not one everyone shares. Good to know about it.

+with so much experience you should aim for a MBA especially coming from consulting( now HEC would be good)

 
bamb92:
If you are not French, just forget it and try to go the UK ie. This program is decent but I will still say it sucks. Why? You are competing against all the people who are actually doing the usual post prepa school. They are bunch of arrogants people who believe they are the best because they did a prepa. They dont do shit in school but still because France is an elistist system, you will get f

This is my opinion, probably not one everyone shares. Good to know about it.

+with so much experience you should aim for a MBA especially coming from consulting( now HEC would be good)

Do mean to say that International students are at a disadvantage when compared to prepa candidates ? Do you have any idea how International students are treated ? Yeah they might be treated a bit better but what I am concerned is about how big is the difference between prepa & Int students ? Will HEC brand not work for Int students ?

 

HEC is still a great school! The best in France but in your situation I would go to the UK You are going to be treated really well! But it doesnt mean you will advantage over other students, They did an extremely selective test to get in. Most of HEC alumni did it so they like people who suffered like them to get where they are

I was perhaps too excited in my answer. It is a great school! But not speaking French is going to hurt you. Being a master student instead of a post prepa one will put you at a disadvantage. Now you have strong prof experience so it should help for the UK but to work in France it will be hard

 

I think Bamb92 has a point with the prepa kids. They tend to feel more entitled because they worked their ass-off during the prepa years. Having said that, that does not give them the right to be douchebags. They are the sole reason why most french people think HEC grads are arrogant.

I do also agree with the UK vs France argument. The labor market is much more flexible there so firms will hire more in London than in Paris. You can always get a head-start in the recruiting and start applying from september onward...

To answer your previous question crossroads, France has structural issues which are not being fixed by the current government (some might disagree; this is my personal opinion). I dont see much improvement in the short-term in terms of growth or liberalization of the labor market in France but who know... maybe our friend Francois will wake up one day and remember some of the economics classes he took back in 74? (He is an HEC grad; crazy huh ?)

You are going for the 2 year master program right? If yes, then you will have plenty of time to look for a job, network, party a bit and most importantly think about moving to london or staying in paris.

 
16rl:
I think Bamb92 has a point with the prepa kids. They tend to feel more entitled because they worked their ass-off during the prepa years. Having said that, that does not give them the right to be douchebags. They are the sole reason why most french people think HEC grads are arrogant.

I do also agree with the UK vs France argument. The labor market is much more flexible there so firms will hire more in London than in Paris. You can always get a head-start in the recruiting and start applying from september onward...

To answer your previous question crossroads, France has structural issues which are not being fixed by the current government (some might disagree; this is my personal opinion). I dont see much improvement in the short-term in terms of growth or liberalization of the labor market in France but who know... maybe our friend Francois will wake up one day and remember some of the economics classes he took back in 74? (He is an HEC grad; crazy huh ?)

You are going for the 2 year master program right? If yes, then you will have plenty of time to look for a job, network, party a bit and most importantly think about moving to London or staying in Paris.

Hi, I am going for 1 year course Master in International Finance, HEC. Yeah It is true that the UK has better hiring trends but in UK I will have 2 months to search for the job after 1 year of M Fin course lets say at LSE. Where as in France, I think I can do an intern till 18 months as I got to know ... So it will better prepare me to the job market. Can some one confirm about the intership rules of France ? Thanks
 
Best Response

@ crossroads

Namaskar. Congratulations on getting in. I'm on the HEC MIF program at present so can give you a bit of info on course content, grading, job opportunities etc.

Course content: You will be able to take modules from professors who come over from Ecole Polytechnique - so you can probably access more knowledge on material like pricing models used for certain exotic options (Asians, lookbacks, Bermudans, best-of/worst-of, capital guarantees, capped/floored floaters, swaptions etc.) which may not be so accessible at LSE. Regardless of whether you want to work in corporate finance or in secondary markets you will have compulsory modules incorporating the other discipline. Your contact hours are greater than the equivalent at UK universities.

Grading: Compared to Anglo-Saxon universities the grading system in France is harsher. The grades are normally distributed (so the average is a C). When London-based recruiters consider applications from French students they pay more attention to the university (HEC, ESSEC, ESCP, EDHEC, Polytechnique, Centrale, etc.) rather than the university grade (though of course, the Prepa grade is critical in getting admission for French students). You will find that if you have many interviews outside Paris (e.g. in London, or in Frankfurt) it can be difficult to balance securing offers and getting good grades. In general French recruiters don't care about your grades at all when you are at HEC. The brand name is sufficient to impress them.

Job Opportunities: Almost everyone will secure an internship at least - but I assume that ideally you want a full-time job after your masters. And that tends to be where students are differentiated on the basis of their experience. I was very fortunate to secure a full-time job as a trader this year, but this involved many applications, 13 journeys to London and 2 to Amsterdam prior to receiving a full-time offer. One thing that I notice that non-EU candidates are sometimes lax about is the approach to applications - you have to be very early with your application/tests (i.e. have them done by the end of September), whilst sometimes in US & NA / APAC first-interviews are done on-campus - this doesn't apply in Europe.

In general, if you want a full-time job in Europe (particularly in IBD or in Markets) you need to have prior internship experience in the same function. The requirement is not so strong in consulting (one industry where there are quite a few full-time offers this year). Getting a full-time position in France (or Italy or Spain for that matter) is nearly impossible, particularly in any markets function. Higher probability of doing so in Germany - however fluency in Deutsch is mandatory unless you are joining a French bank there or are working for a high-frequency trading shop. The labour market is far more inflexible than in the UK, for example, so most companies prefer to hire on long-term internship contracts. This is also a source of cheap labour for the companies since interns are paid at a different rate to full-time hires all across continental Europe (in London intern pay and full-time analyst pay is basically the same, by contrast). Anyone non-French in search of a full-time position tended to apply to London or their home market. Most larger companies will sponsor non-EU nationals at the full-time and intern level, but if you don't manage to secure one of those positions it becomes pretty difficult to be hired by a smaller company in the UK or Continental Europe (outside France) given the visa sponsorship issue.

To an extent I was hedged here since I am a dual Indian / European citizen so have access to 2 major labour markets. Being hired for me probably did not relate that much to HEC's brand name but to the fact that I had relevant contract-based and intern experience in trading in the Netherlands and London respectively. Without either of these two things on my CV I probably wouldn't have secured a full-time job despite having HEC on there too, so bear that in mind.

Campus Lifestyle: It's really quite far from the centre of Paris (75 mins with public transport). There's one supermarket and 2 restaurants next to campus, and that's basically it. Don't expect to be frequenting nice bars/nightclubs. But you will save alot here when compared to studying in the UK - basically all of the top 5 UK programs (except Cambridge) will set you back over GBP 26,000 in fees. If you're at the LSE/Imperial then your living expenses are likely to be at least GBP 800/month, whilst rent at HEC can be just EUR 400/month including bills.

 

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