Advice for New Analysts Seeking PE Exits
Mod note (Andy): "Blast from the past - Best of WSO" - while Eddie is away this month in his place we'll be posting up some of the most popular posts from the past. This was originally posted on 12/26/09
I received a number of PMs asking for advice for analysts as to how to successfully position themselves for PE interviews. Instead of PMing responses, I figured I'd just make a post. So, here it is:
The best way to position yourself for PE recruiting will be to develop strong relationships with the senior bankers, particularly the MDs. During PE recruiting, if your MD is not the one who sets up the interview, they will still most certainly be called as a reference. In the PE world, your reference is extremely important. A "luke-warm" reference is instant grounds for dismissal, even if you've successfully navigated the entire interview process.
How do you make the MD like you? The most important thing is attitude. NEVER, EVER complain about the work or how much sleep you didn't get the night before. It will not reduce your workload, it will destroy your mental well-being / efficiency, and no one will like you. Plenty of other analysts will bitch late at night, but its important that you keep a low profile and just agree with everyone. The other analysts don't like the "happy-go-lucky-all-the-time" analyst, so keep this in mind as well.
In addition to maintaining a positive attitude, there is obviously not substitution for high-quality work. Everyone finds their own style, but every successful analyst is well-organized. Try to always have every detail at your fingertips and maintain a well-organized workspace. This gives the impression that you're on top of things and have your shit together. It makes a difference. Oh and -- ALWAYS DOUBLE CHECK YOUR WORK. If the experienced analysts don't tell this to you every day of training, they are doing your a disservice. You will find mistakes almost every time. Even if they are silly spelling mistakes or poor formatting, these mistakes will give the impression of sloppy work. People will ignore the content, even if its great, simply because of misspellings and formatting. Sounds dumb, but that's the way it goes.
Lastly, make sure you know what you're doing and why you're doing it. It is so easy to be so deep in the weeds that you fail to see the big picture. When work piles up, you turn into a processing machine and ignore everything else. When it comes time to interview at PE firms, you'll be scrambling to remember all the details of the deal, even if you spent hundreds of hours working on them. While I don't have BB modeling experience, I know a lot of MM analysts fall victim to templates. For example, if you're using a template to do an accretion / dilution analysis, that's fine, but take the time to understand what it is your analyzing. Knowing that the deal is accretive in year 1 is great, but you'll be expected to know what is driving the accretion. Is it a low cost of capital, the substantial use of cash on the balance sheet to fund the acquisition, or something else? This is the difference between a good analyst and a great analyst. The good analyst produces accurate work, the great analyst can interpret it.
There are obviously dozens of other minor factors that play a role in your job hunt, but I've found these to be the most influential. You can't change your resume once you start work, so you have to rely on relationships and experience to seperate you from your peers at that point.
Thanks - very helpful. Most
Thanks - very helpful.
Most is applicable to summer analysts as well. Obviously the double-checking and positive attitude, but also seeing the big picture so if you interview at other firms after the summer, you can speak about the details of your work rather than just saying you spread comps all day.
How about undergrad GPA? 3.5
How about undergrad GPA? 3.5 from decent state-school, but very good bank-- too low for PE?
Great post, thanks a lot for
Great post, thanks a lot for the advice. Question regarding what you said about relationships with MDs:
I'm starting in 2010 as a FT analyst at a BB bank that is known to openly discourage analyst recruiting for PE/HF/VC/etc. (the bank has been making a firm-wide effort to promote more analysts to associates, break out of the two-year analyst turnover mentality, etc).
Older analysts I've talked to in the office that recruited for PE said they had to do it without help from any senior bankers in the office. Even letting MDs/VPs know that you're recruiting is a big no-no. Several said they interacted mostly with headhunters, but I can't say I know much about that process either.
Any specific advice for a situation such as this one? Thanks in advance
Very useful post, thanks a
Very useful post, thanks a lot.
I have 2 questions:
1. Are your MDs generally discouraging you from moving to PE if they really like you and want you to stay in the team? given that, how would they give the PE / headhunter positive feedback on the person? I just don't quite understand how this works with the MDs.
2. I am a bit scared about that "complaint" point. I think I very very seldom mentioned the hours I worked, but I can recall once or twice I mentioned I worked till 6am last night but it's ok not bad blah blah (when they asked me what time did you leave yesterday etc) still a bit concerned whether I have already left them an impression of "weak mentality". any advice?
Thanks.
Well done, CompBanker. Thanks
Well done, CompBanker. Thanks for the great post.
nextbigthing wrote: How about
How about undergrad GPA? 3.5 from decent state-school, but very good bank-- too low for PE?
I can only speak to MM PE as I did not go through megafund recruiting:
While PE shops definitely want to see a track record of success (undergrad institution, high GPA, etc.), the bank you worked at and the experience you gained is FAR more important. While undoubtedly you will be in a less advantageous position compared to your honor roll ivy league peers, it is definitely something that you can overcome. Unlike most interviews out of undergrad, PE interviews are focused on both fit AND technicals. By technicals, I don't mean things like "define WACC." I mean your ability to analyze an industry, do a modeling exercise live, and articulate about transactions you've worked on.
For example, when myself and my peers went through recruiting, a number of us were put through onsite modeling tests. Essentially, we were put in front of a computer, given some financials, and told to build an LBO, a merger model, or some other related model. Sometimes you're given 30 minutes and its quick and dirty, sometimes you have 3 hours, and sometimes they email it to you in advance and you show up with the model at your interview. One of my interviewers flipped over my resume and had me build a very high level model with pen and paper.
Another example: I was given an Offering Memorandum a couple of days before my onsite interview, with no instructions other than to read it. During the interview, I needed to speak to the strengths / weaknesses of the company, articulate what the investment thesis would be, decide if it was an investment I'd make, and give my leverage assumptions. I wasn't told whether or not notes were allowed, but I just assumed they weren't.
I have numerous other examples of technical-like questions that PE shops inevitably ask their candidates. My point is: Once you've gone through all the interviews, the PE shop will have tons of data from which to assess your candidacy. Your GPA becomes a very marginal factor. In fact, from my experience, there is usually 1 candidate to stands out far beyond the rest -- and that's the guy who usually gets the job, regardless of their undergrad school or GPA.
CompBanker
monkeyjunkie wrote: Great
Great post, thanks a lot for the advice. Question regarding what you said about relationships with MDs:
I'm starting in 2010 as a FT analyst at a BB bank that is known to openly discourage analyst recruiting for PE/HF/VC/etc. (the bank has been making a firm-wide effort to promote more analysts to associates, break out of the two-year analyst turnover mentality, etc).
Older analysts I've talked to in the office that recruited for PE said they had to do it without help from any senior bankers in the office. Even letting MDs/VPs know that you're recruiting is a big no-no. Several said they interacted mostly with headhunters, but I can't say I know much about that process either.
Any specific advice for a situation such as this one? Thanks in advance
This sounds like a tough situation, but I think you can get around it. When we were interviewing bankers, there were a few that were in the same situation you will be. The expectation was that they would move up through the ranks and talk about exit ops just didn't happen. The solution that seemed to work for them was this:
As you go through your analyst stint, you will inevitably be spending a lot of time with your co-workers. As a result, it is very likely that you'll develop relationships with a few more senior guys that you can trust. While the institutional culture may be one of "promote from within," there will still be senior guys who will be willing to help you out. I'd recommend that you make a point to find and develop relationships with those types of individuals, whether they are associates, VPs, or D/MDs.
When the time comes to give references, you'll finally need to let the people who know you best into the loop. Don't get me wrong, this will be tough, and the culture at your future bank will definitely hinder the recruiting process, but that doesn't mean you have to give up on outplacement.
Besides the above, my advice to you would be to talk to the 2nd year analysts when PE recruiting starts to kick off. They will know better than anyone about how you should go about it and methods that were successful for them. It sounds like you've gotten a high level answer from them so far, but I'm sure they'll have more details to share. On top of that, after a year on the job, you'll have a much better idea of the culture that you're in and will likely be able to navigate the recruiting process on your own.
CompBanker
lullaby0001 wrote: Very
Very useful post, thanks a lot.
I have 2 questions:
1. Are your MDs generally discouraging you from moving to PE if they really like you and want you to stay in the team? given that, how would they give the PE / headhunter positive feedback on the person? I just don't quite understand how this works with the MDs.
2. I am a bit scared about that "complaint" point. I think I very very seldom mentioned the hours I worked, but I can recall once or twice I mentioned I worked till 6am last night but it's ok not bad blah blah (when they asked me what time did you leave yesterday etc) still a bit concerned whether I have already left them an impression of "weak mentality". any advice?
Thanks.
1 - Good question. It really is going to depend on the professionals. The bank I worked at openly encouraged moving to PE, so I had a very different experience. However, when I was given my 3rd year offer, they were very open with me. I was told: "We'd love to have you stay around for a 3rd year, but we don't want to encourage it if you're not mutually interested."
Essentially, if you tell your MD that you would like to do PE, he may attempt to convince you otherwise, but he isn't going to throw you under the bus just to keep you around. That said, I'm sure there are MDs out there who care about nothing but their own agenda, but I think this is rarer than you might imagine. If they really do like you, they are going to want to help you out.
Also on a somewhat related note, as an alumnus of the analyst program, you become a spokesman for your old group. If the MD really likes you, odds are you're doing a good job and not struggling through your analyst years. If he sends you off to a PE shop, he now has a very good spokesman for his group working in house at a potential repeat client. Believe it or not, you serve as a great marketing tool for the MD, and they know this.
2 - Sounds like you did the right thing here, I wouldn't be concerned at all. If someone asks you straight up how late you stayed, you can give them an honest answer. A lot of it has to do with your tone. If they ask and you say: "I stayed up til 6am cause the stupid printer was busted and I had to email the file to Johnny to print for me and then X happened, etc." -- that's not good. They know that you're staying extremely late to get the job done, and they expect it. Heck, they don't even expect you to like it. What is expected is that you won't go around telling everyone how hard your life is, cause quite honestly, everyone at the entire bank works hard (or at least has convinced themselves that they do).
If you're really looking to blow off steam, I'd suggest you complain to your other banking friends, your parents (if they don't have a mental breakdown when you tell them what your life is like), siblings, or even your girlfriend. I wouldn't make too much of a habit of it -- they'll eventually get sick of it, but I can be a nice way to maintain your sanity without hurting your career.
CompBanker
Thank you very much,
Thank you very much, CompBanker, indeed helpful!
Another related question is that now many banks are aggressively hiring juniors. Of coz you don't want people to know that you are even in talks with headhunters, but you also want people to know you are also being poached or in demand. What do people generally do to kinda "leverage" a bit?
lullaby0001 wrote: Thank you
Thank you very much, CompBanker, indeed helpful!
Another related question is that now many banks are aggressively hiring juniors. Of coz you don't want people to know that you are even in talks with headhunters, but you also want people to know you are also being poached or in demand. What do people generally do to kinda "leverage" a bit?
Can you clarify what you mean by aggressively hiring juniors? Juniors are typically hired for Summer Analysts positions for a 2-3 month internship between Junior and Senior year. Given your prior comment, I'm assuming that you've already completed a Summer Analyst stint. I'm not sure why a junior would be talking with headhunters.
CompBanker
I mean junior banker not
I mean junior banker not junior in uni.........I am a 1st year analyst now.
Thanks a lot.
Okay, if you mean
Okay, if you mean aggressively hiring 1st / 2nd year analysts as laterals, then I understand your question. Personally, I would never attempt to use this as leverage. First of all, unless you have an offer in hand, you're just a name on a long list of candidates that could potentially lateral. I don' t think you really have much / any leverage in this situation. That said, certainly keep this as a back-pocket option in the rare event that you have a falling out with your group/bank, but still want to continue in investment banking.
Overall, I'd advise against lateralling. For the most part, the analyst experience is the same regardless of which bank you work at (within the different categories -- BB / MM / Smallcap Boutique). Also, the pay is generally the same within the bands as well. However, if you do choose to lateral, you end up losing out on a lot of the goodwill that you've built up. By not completing your two years, you'll very likely be burning bridges with your prior group, especially if you head off to another ibanking role. Also, you'll need to re-establish your reputation at the new bank, and all those long hours you put in to please your prior MD will mean nothing. When it comes time for outplacement, you'll be at a disadvantage to your peers, as you'll need to explain why you jumped ship for the same job. In addition, your current group will very likely not have enough time to get to know you and evaluate your work, and as a result, your references will suffer greatly. For those of you who think everyone will understand because you jumped from "UBS" to "GS," senior professionals in the industry certainly don't think that way, and you'll find yourself in quite a tough position.
CompBanker
Thanks a lot, this is really
Thanks a lot, this is really very sincere and great advice.
I think it's a good advice for juniors.
As above posters have said,
As above posters have said, excellent post.
Though I'm only seven months in, one point I'd like to emphasize is seeing the "bigger picture." The other points (quality work, double-checking, agreeing with everything) are pretty straight-forward and absolutely necessary, but one of the harder things to do is see the big picture. For my first few months, I was nothing but a processing monkey -- I had tons and tons of work piled on top of me, and I more-or-less HAD to process it as quick as possible to avoid being at the office all night, every night. I think that's pretty standard for most analysts. But as you adjust to the way things get done and you become much more efficient (which does happen), it is up to the analyst to choose whether you: (1) crank out the work as fast as possible, essentially remaining a processing monkey, and get the hell out of the office, or (2) work efficiently, but take the time to sit back and say, "what am I doing here? Why am I doing this? etc." It takes a little bit more time, but this makes you a much better analyst and you learn MUCH more -- it allows you to actually contribute valuable ideas/insight, vs. just nodding your head in agreement with your MD/VP/associate.
Even still, when I get work piled on top of me, it can be easy to fall into (1) and just process as quickly and efficiently as possible. I often find myself thinking, "what the hell did I just do?" When I get into those situations, I try to go back and figure out the WHY behind it -- and this is the best way to learn. And based on what CB has said about interviews, this is probably one of the most important points to emphasize to succeed in PE interviews. So for you all prospective analysts -- I would say this is one of the more difficult points to focus on, but it is one of the most essential.
Hey Compbanker, thanks for
Hey Compbanker, thanks for this great post, I've found it very helpful. Can you provide some insight on whether there are any disadvantages coming from an industry group vs. M&A and Sponsors when it comes to PE recruiting? Traditionally, M&A and Sponsors offer the best PE exits but is it possible to come from an industry background?
thanks for the great advice
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