A High School Student Trying To Get Ahead

Greetings y'all, I'm currently in junior year of highschool going onto my senior this fall and since my freshmen year, I have been dedicated and ABSOLUTELY set for IB. I've been following everything within the financial industry. Thing is, I want to get more ahead and I need your advice. Many people have stating to just enjoy high school, but i absolutely have a passion for learning and self-educating myself on IB/PE/HF. My ultimate goal is to enter a HF but through IB or PE. Nevertheless IB is my first goal and of course a target uni .

As a Highschool student, recently, I have been reading Joshua Rosenbaum's IB valuation book . Of course I don't understand completely everything, but I have a solid foundation where I can follow the book. Not to mention, I have founded my school's investment club and have done related finance experience all within this year. Except, I want to expand and get better? Any relevent tips and advices or lessons you can provide me to get ahead as a high school student to enter and break into IB?

 

Focus on getting into Wharton. Like literally, that should be your focus. If it includes all the finance-y shit in high school, go ahead, but your goal is to get into Wharton or Harvard. If you do that you'll be fine.

Also have fun, play a sport and get laid. Best advice for high school kids.

"It is better to have a friendship based on business, than a business based on friendship." - Rockefeller. "Live fast, die hard. Leave a good looking body." - Navy SEAL
 

The thing is, I'm almost positive I'll get into a target considering stellar grades, ecs and what not. Of course it's not a given, but with that being said, I'm worried about upon entering uni, competing with those who has been building up their own portfolios since they were like 12... Considering that recruiting is not all just based on schools's brand name, this includes I I GPA, etc. I want to be one of those in the top 10% entering freshmen class in the fall of unit in terms of being a finance rockstar... Of course while all being humble. So besides the given "target uni", are there any other suggestions for a junior entering sophomore entering IB?

 

Do an internship the summer after senior year in either a finance related company (for example PWM) or in a well recognised brand (e.g I know some who worked at luxury goods brands e.g Hermes) or maybe in some kind of charity or NGO. If you are the athletic type, keep working hard in your sport and get recruited/walk on to a university team.

There are no guarantees that you will get into a good university nowadays (I know personally guys who had 4.0+ and 2300+ from top high schools who ended up at terrible places with names I couldn't even recognise, on the other hand there are those who did far worse who got into Ivy league schools) so work on those essays and apply to a large number of places.

 

LOL I had a finance co-op experience with a financial firm in my hometown but otherwise, this experience, that contains "professionalism" and somewhat "finance experience", it's hard to even get a PWM with a good brand name. I have some good contacts in a BB and a prop-trading firm, but they've told me they "atm" are looking for uni students which is a bummer. Of course this is all understandable as I would probably say the same thing if I were them. But nonetheless at this point, besides a target Uni, I'm trying to find alternatives to give me the edge....

 
Best Response
ooooooops:

The thing is, I'm almost positive I'll get into a target considering stellar grades, ecs and what not. Of course it's not a given, but with that being said, I'm worried about upon entering uni, competing with those who has been building up their own portfolios since they were like 12... Considering that recruiting is not all just based on schools's brand name, this includes I I GPA, etc. I want to be one of those in the top 10% entering freshmen class in the fall of unit in terms of being a finance rockstar... Of course while all being humble. So besides the given "target uni", are there any other suggestions for a junior entering sophomore entering IB?

You don't sound very humble.

 

Hi, as an incoming high school freshman considering finance I know where you are coming from. Keep your grades and ECs up and play some sports. after doing that the most important thing you can do is to network. Find events, send out cold emails, Go to presentations and reach out to the speakers. Do everything you can to meet people in the industry. Keep this up and the internships that give you the experience you need will come. I was fortunate enough to receive multiple offers from investment banks this summer. Was I even competitive with the other college students in my internship judging by qualifications? Hell no. But I met with MDs for lunch before getting an offer. Keep grinding.

 

I'll give my two cents, but look man, you gotta be a high school student. You have the rest of your life for work. Go for the girl you have a huge crush on, join some dumb clubs just for fun, cause some mischief - you're going to look back and be glad you did. Besides, to succeed you need to be a well-rounded interesting person with good social skills, not just knowledgable. Maybe you already do all those things so sorry for the assumption you don't and unwarranted advice.

Now for the warranted advice. It's already been given but I'll repeat it to confirm it's validity. Focus on college. I went to a non-target and got a job in IB out of college, but trust me, it's a hell of a lot easier if you can get into a good school.

 

I only give advice to those who are too young to be competition for me for the time being.

My advice for you is to make damn sure you get into Wharton and if you can't then NYU/USC are your next options. Why? Because you'll start interning for small shops freshman year, either in NYC/LA and will have no problem at all getting into a BB your junior year and maybe even Sophomore year.

Don't bother with Portfolios for now, make sure you become an expert in accounting and basic finance, and depending on whether you land on the east/west coast choose an industry strong in that area which interests you.

Don't skip a step buddy

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.
 

Don't be a social retard.

Obviously you need good grades, good ECs, internships, etc. Obviously you will have an easier time breaking in if you go to a top school. That said, don't sit in your room on a Friday night masterbating to your finance textbook, either in highschool or especially in college. Join a club. Go greek. Lift weights. Go on bike rides. Drink booze. Fuck girls (or whatever you're into.)

if you get a 4.0 all through college at Wharton you should be able to get an analyst gig. But if you get equally good grades or even like a 3.7-3.8 but you slay pussy, pump iron, lead an organization, make good friends, and have a normal social life you will get much further in life. So many people come to this site and ask which backpack is more prestigious or which exact pair of shoes they have to buy or quite literally advice on how to communicate with other human beings. Don't be that guy.

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

Start learning some accounting now. Be familiar with the financial statements and how they relate. It will help you with your education and also make you more familiar with the language of business. Start tracking different deals and who is doing them. Keep it up through college and network as much as possible.

Only two sources I trust, Glenn Beck and singing woodland creatures.
 

Just worry about getting into the best school possible. Make sure all of your scores are top-notch; if they aren't, retake in September or October. Really polish your application and read other successful college essays so you know exactly how you should write. If there are any competitions or anything that could possibly give you something to talk about on your resume in the fall, do them.

 

welcome.

you can always start with googling "is xxx a target school", "yyy placement on investment banking," or "ib target schoos." Then you will likely be directed to websites such as WSO, Poets&Quants, and college confidential. Browsing these sites gives you a basic understanding of how certain schools perform on the street and what the consensuses are. Another useful tool is linkedin. Simply log into your account and check the alumni of different schools.

However, you should always be cautious with the information presented to you, because, even on a site like WSO, there are a lot of misleading, polarized, and uninformed comments. Certain truths can be rarely discussed; certain statements can vary from individual situations. For example, you may see statements like "brown is a trash school for ib vs brown alumni can go anywhere", "here are the tiers for ib recruiting," or stuffs like "only ivy matters." So you may want to be critical.

The best way to acquire legit information about a school is really to ask those who work in the industry, or learn to filter incorrect information on the internet as you gradually become more informed.

best luck on your application.

 

Thanks for your input. Why don't they like to see stuff about wall street? Doesn't talking about it show the admissions officers that you are knowledgeable about the merits of their program, have a goal, and the drive to get there through their school? I would've thought that talking about IB placements would work in your favor.

 

Couple things: It is EXTREMELY rare to land hedge fund position straight out of undergraduate school even if u went to Wharton, Harvard, etc. They just rarely recruit undergrads unless you have personal connections within the industry. Most start out working in Investment Banking as Analysts working their way up and transferring to work at a Hedge Fund later on.

In terms of majors, if you want to go straight into Wall Street (investment banking, private equity, maybe hedge fund) after graduation here are SOME typical options: 1. Do ANY major at top, elite schools (like Ivy League + Stanford). Even if you did English Literature at Harvard, you still have high chance of being recruited. High GPA and good EC's are surely important. 2. Economics or Finance Undergrad at good school with high GPA, good EC's (eg. Wharton, Stern, Haas, Ross undergard). This is a solid path if you are damn sure that you want to work in finance/business and have no other major interest you want to pursue. Even if you want to pursue other interest, you can do a minor or dual-degree.
3. Maths intensive majors like Mathematics, Computer Science, Engineering, etc. at a good school with high GPA + good ECs. This is good if you are really good at math or you have an interest in engineering & other majors. Wall Street appreciates strong math background and someone who is good at physics/math/engineering can easily learn finance on the job. The downside is that you might not develop the social skills needed in a fast-paced, business environment.

 

Yeah, just make life easy for yourself if you're set on this path. In short, do what needs to be done to get to a target school (don't compromise on this early by saying bottom-end of Top 30 will do), then get top grades at said university. Then get yourself involved whilst at university by doing some leadership stuff (read: societies), sports, run a real or fake money portfolio to familiarize with the markets, read through as many books on investing as you can (can't go wrong with the classics, depending on what kind of investing you want to do).

To get your initial job in the hedge fund world it's largely a matter a jumping through loops (i.e. top high school grades, top university, top university grades, leadership experience to show you're active, sports or similar to show you're competitive, general knowledge how to interview properly and knowledge about the markets / philosophy of investing --> DONE) - not much different to what you would need to do to get a front office role at a bulge bracket, maybe just need more intuition / on your feet type reasoning ability / capacity to work solo and just figure it out at a HF.

 

For background, I'm a distressed analyst at a large HF. I've probably conducted 1-2 interviews a week during this "recruiting season" for roles across our fundamental investing teams.

There seems to be a growing trend to take on college interns, so it's more likely you get hired out of school at a fund today than historically. That said, as said earlier, it's extremely competitive and requires a lot of skill + luck. The screening process (for getting to the interview) seems to be a combination of where you went (Harvard, Wharton, etc.), GPA, and resume (prior work experience at a relevant place, exceptional achievement via competitions/entrepreneurship, etc.). Networking is important too, particularly if you're lacking in any of the former.

My pieces of advice are: 1) Get into a good school + get good grades 2) Join clubs to learn & get a network when you get into college 3) Start spending time now on learning how to think. Start questioning why more, start focusing more on understanding concepts and less on solving the problem in front of you. Start learning how to break up complicated problems into a series of less complicated ones (try practicing brainteasers, these are commonly used in interviews). This will help make you more thoughtful 4) Spend time learning about the market. If you're interested in fundamental roles, start learning about markets and how businesses work (easiest way IMO to do this is to just read other people's pitches on beginner sites like VIC or seekingalpha and look up anything you don't understand). Start thinking about how economics of different businesses that you come across in your daily life / when meeting people. Get basic accounting skills too. If you're interested in quanty roles, then get exceptional technical skills (I'm less help here).

Don't be so scared either. Despite there being a lot of people interested in these roles, it's actually kind of hard to find thoughtful candidates. Remember that not much is expected from college kids, and your interviewer is primarily looking for potential.

Good luck.

 

OMG your a high school senior and can't get into a target school?!?!?!!

Dude, your life is over. You might as well kill yourself. The last 4 years of your life were life mistakes that just screwed you for the rest of your life. Your destined to be miserable and unhappy.

 

Your knowledge of finance, let alone high finance is laughable, but a year from now, you will know a lot more if you do a few things. I'm assuming you want to work in investment banking. You don't exactly know what that is, but you can start now and be ahead of most people.

  • Read this website every day (go through the FAQ section)
  • You should also read these websites: Mergers and Inquisitions, Dealbook, Dealbreaker, and WSJ
  • NYU and uMich are the best schools you listed. (I agree that you should apply to Indiana and Illinois)
  • When you get to school, major in finance, and join the finance or econ club
  • Really focus on getting the highest GPA possible (You will study more than you ever have in your life)
  • After freshman year, try to get a BB PWM internship show your interest in the finance industry
  • Sophomore summer, (when you notice the value of your school) cold email alumni to get a banking internship
  • Junior year, you will take part in on campus recruiting to secure that ever so important junior IBD SA
  • Senior year, hopefully you will have secured a full-time offer after your junior SA, and the year is a "breeze"
  • You will then either work in banking for 2 years and leave for HF, PE, etc., or you will continue to move up the ranks
  • After about five years of working on either the sell-side or buy-side, you will try to get into a top-7 MBA program
  • After your MBA program, you will either go back into the field you were previously in, or do something entirely
  • The rest is up to you
 

I notice you have Swarthmore and MacCalester. If you still can, I'd add Middlebury/Amherst/Williams, although they are on the fairly selective side. Given the size, these 3 have good presence on the street, loyal alumni, they do get some on campus recruiting from bulge brackets, and have good reputations.

You aren't going to learn any finance at these small LACs, but that's to your advantage if you are willing to work hard and self-study, because competition at these schools is much easier. Major in something quantitative, get good grades, self study finance basics, maybe play a sport, definitely get some leadership positions when you can, network with the alumni base, and a lot of the slots that go to those schools are yours for the taking.

 

Thanks a lot for your replies, everyone. You don't know how much I appreciate them. For those of you who recommended "Illinois" and "Indiana": which ones exactly? I'm typing them into my college search and tens of them are coming up.

 

Are you from another country? Illinois is in Champaign. Indiana is in Bloomington. Not trying to be mean but I thought it was common knowledge to know where schools are located just from watching sports and stuff.

On a side note, this shouldn't even be on your mind right now. Pick a school you like and have fun. I guess it's somewhat important to major in finance/Econ/etc and maybe get an internship of some sort. Aside from that, the rest will work itself out. People work in IB from all sorts of backgrounds. Keep your options open. As a HS senior, you may find something else you want to do so I wouldn't be so quick to pigeon-hole yourself as a finance guy and let that drive your college decision.

Knowing what I know now, I actually might suggest majoring in engineering of some sort. It is mathematically intensive and therefore many people are able to transition into finance. And obviously you have the engineering part to fall back on if needed. It's a versatile degree. Seems like everyone and their brother is doing business/finance/etc nowadays and that's diluting the value to a certain degree.

 

I would really recommend finding a school that suites you; one where you feel like you fit into the program. I probably wouldn't emphasize it so much if you were applying to the Ivy Leagues. But most of the schools on your list will be looked at similarly by financial firms, so you might as well choose the one you are going to enjoy the most.

 

Really not sure why you wrote that giant wall of text, but here are some good schools, majority of these are reaches:

Georgetown Duke University of Michigan, Ross NYU - Stern Berkeley Dartmouth Brown Penn Columbia Indiana Kelley is also good for IB recruiting but ONLY if you get into the IB workshop club

 

When you say "Wall Street" do you literally mean Manhattan, New York City or do you mean "Wall Street-type jobs"? I'm a little blown away--when I was 17 I thought there were 2 types of office jobs: accountant and bookkeeper. It never ceases to amaze me how some kids already know what they want at 17. Most people don't figure that out until they're in their 30s after switching careers twice. Anyway...

If you do get a 33 on the ACT then you're a very strong candidate for Berkeley (I guess I wouldn't call it a "safety" school though), which is a Wall Street target. In fact, a 4.5 weighted GPA (which is basically a perfect GPA) with a 33 ACT makes you a strong candidate almost anywhere outside of the Ivy Leagues and similar. Your extracurriculars are so-so, but the name of the game with that is "truthful hyperbole".

I would think you'd be a very strong candidate for Berkeley, UCLA, and Southern Cal, especially if the admissions committees there are familiar with the rigor of your school (apparently it's a "top" public school?). And you'd be a decently strong candidate at pretty much any top state school (UT - Austin, UNC - Chapel Hill, Michigan, UVA--all high finance targets or semi-targets).

Let me throw in another school I'd look into--Washington & Lee in Lexington, VA. It's an elite liberals arts college that is more or less a target school for Wall Street and they were recently endowed by a ridiculously rich alumnus with a major scholarship that pretty much offers free rides to something like a quarter of all students and something like 80%+ will now get substantial scholarships to cover the cost to attend. So for most students it's cheaper than in-state tuition.

 

I guess by "Wall Street" I mean Wall Street type jobs, not sure if I'd like to work in NY or San Fran. Do you think I have any chance at Columbia applying early-decision where if you get in you have to go. Also I guess finance has always interested me and not much else for at least 4 years know but who knows what could change. And by "top" public school I mean it was ranked in the top 3% of US but like all rankings they're only to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Assuming you get a 33 ACT score you'd be a legit candidate, but I just looked up Columbia's acceptance rate--7%. That basically means that it takes a lot more than just scores. Your scores make you a legitimate candidate, but after that it's completely subjective--race, gender, major, extracurriculars, legacy status, etc. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I probably wouldn't waste my early decision on Columbia with your profile. I'd go with a more realistic school. But I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on that.

 

I did a summer working in test prep and admissions consulting. That's a low SAT score - hopefully you'll do better this Saturday. I've found that, in most cases, students don't really jump from sub-2000 levels on the SAT to 32+ on the ACT. If you don't do so well on the ACT, you should probably think about taking the tests again after more practice.

Ivies + places like Georgetown/Duke/Chicago would be high reaches. Since you're in Cali, UCLA or Berkeley might be good choices, but they would still be reach schools.

I don't mean to demean your efforts for the 4.5, but do you know if the weighted GPA's at your school are inflated? Do you know what your class rank is? Admissions offices expect similar stats for GPA and standardized tests, so a 4.5 GPA at a fairly rigorous high school would probably be paired up with a 2200+ or 32+

 

I will admit I do find our GPA's to be over inflated, we use ABCD and honors and AP are both a 5 instead of 4 (I've only take one honors though). I'm just in top 4% of class. My SAT was with out study, I got a 630 in Math, 660 in Reading, and 670 in Writing. I made the mistake of assuming since I get high A's in Calc BC I wouldn't need to study for math only to find out the math is from what I did 4 years ago and I'm rusty in. I've studied for about two weeks for the ACT so I plan on doing my best on the one in June. Also what about USC Marshal/Levanthal? I can get in to USC almost 100% (family). How much can connections help to some of these school if I'm on the edge? At Columbia I know an admissions officer (through family) and my dad lobbies for private colleges and knows a lot of presidents etc.

 

Connections don't usually help except in situations where your parents are trustees, your family donated a huge amount of money, or your parents are the admissions officers in charge. So unless your family fits the criteria above, I wouldn't count on those 'connections' to help at all.

SC is best for accounting, but I'm assuming it would be decent for West Coast placement.

 

Ivy leagues NYU Columbia Chicago UVA Stanford Berkley

These should all have very strong Wall Street placement.

Don't get too ahead of yourself. I think you should do more research. You said you have family in the securities business. You need to realize 1) investment banking is NOTHING like securities trading, 2) sell side is not all that similar to hedge funds. You also said "there's something about finance and the lifestyle." Saying "finance" is so broad that it can't be a reason in itself. Also, are you sure you love even 1 thing about the investment banking lifestyle??? I find that very hard to believe.

You have a lot of research to do but that's perfectly ok. To be honest I think you are getting a bit too far over your skis are 17. You need to be focusing (in this order): 1) get that SAT up... not the ACT, the SAT, 2) go to the absolute best school you can get into, 3) try to get as close to a 4.0 as possible, 4) have fun in college. Do this and you'll be very prepared as far as resume for a junior year internship. If you can intern with family at those funds you spoke of starting your post-freshman summer, you'll be waaaay ahead of the game.

Relax a little.

 

If you are a rock-star then your first internship wont be until a year and a half from now so take a breath and relax. You might be behind some people but your look 200x better than I did in high-school. Start with this list of target schools and filter based on admission standards, location etc. Good luck.

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/list-of-targets-and-semi-targets

“The only thing I know is that I know nothing, and i am no quite sure that i know that.” Socrates
 

Thank you! I've heard that a lot (just relax and do well) and am trying my best! (lol). If you don't mind me asking, what did your career trajectory end up being? Did you do well and then transfer to a target or work for two years and then apply to a grad school, or something similar?

 
AA:
I'd major in finance, just because it'd show greater interest in the field and you'll learn more material that's applicable to the field you'll be employed in.

It's really tough getting any IB internship as a freshman, but go for PWM or anything that's even remotely finance related and you'll be well ahead of everyone else.

Can you explain what PWM is??

Buy from the nervous sell to the greedy
 

If you get a finance major maybe check out a minor other than business. This way you can take some interesting classes (think about a math, comp sci, philo, econ minor).

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
 
LIBOR:
If you get a finance major maybe check out a minor other than business. This way you can take some interesting classes (think about a math, comp sci, philo, econ minor).

I agree. Rather than minoring in Business, do a major in Finance with a minor in Math or Computer Science. I think the Economics classes you'll take for Finance would be sufficient.

An internship as a Freshman would be very difficult. Try getting a head start on local financial firms and do anything that is remotely related to finance. Doesn't have to be a head-on IB internship.

 
trailmix8:
PWM = your job is to manage wealthy individuals and families' money.
How would i go about doing that, and at 18? I could be wrong but i doubt theres even 3% of people that would entrust their money with to an 18 year old

To those who are tearing Pace apart, they have some very notable alumni http://www.pace.edu/pace/lubin/alumni-and-friends/ and they do have very strong relations with JP Morgan with over 1,000 graduates employed their. And yes there are much better schools in NY (Fordham, NYU, Columbia) but they are MUCH more expensive as for Pace I feel it has the best value or bang for your buck

Buy from the nervous sell to the greedy
 
happypantsmcgee:
NYZ - PWM internships are generally accepted as the stepping stone to other finance related internships.

Ok but where would i go about obtaining one of these internships? places like BAML, GS, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan? or....

Buy from the nervous sell to the greedy
 

Well i haven't started at Pace yet I'm still in HS, the problem with Columbia is that it is to expensive im already stretching my dollar really far trying to go to Pace as far as the major minor situation Finance/Business a good idea or should I do Finance/Accounting as someone else had suggested?

Buy from the nervous sell to the greedy
 
happypantsmcgee:
Go Finance/Accounting or Finance/Business just make sure to get a 4.0
I can manage that thanks for the input
Buy from the nervous sell to the greedy
 
TimothyBryce:
If you are in NY what about one of the SUNY Cornell schools like ILR or Ag (the AEM, business, program is in Ag)
ok im going to look into these thanks
Buy from the nervous sell to the greedy
 

Finance/Accounting (only double business major I'd do), Finance/Math, Finance/Philosophy, FInance/Econ

I didn't know accredited schools still offered a business major with an emphasis in business... meh, looks like I'm out of the loop.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 
GutShot:
Ignore the haters on this thread, Pace is a fine school, work hard and take advantage of being in close proximity to banks. Earn your spot.
thats how i always kinda looked at it sadly the other major schools just aren't really an option for me i am going to Pace because i received a half tuition scholarship for it
Buy from the nervous sell to the greedy
 

Just a word of consideration, without bashing one school or another I will state what I know for a fact. JPM is the only major bank I know of that goes on-campus at Pace, and they recruit for BO positions. I've met two alum who got MO/FO, but they're at MD with regional slots who clearly had something special, regardless of where they went to school.

Kids I've met in the city who go there aren't that happy with it.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Here's the costs of each college in NYC that you would be interested in or have shown interest:

Columbia: $41,316 NYU: $38,765 Fordham: $36,449 Pace: $32,816

This is me being straight with you. Transfer out. The fact that Columbia is just about 8k more than PACE means the whole world here. I would go for those student loans because PACE is so much harder to get internships and jobs than the others, unless you are a networking wizard.

Hope to see you up there!

It's what you put into it
 

hmm i mean most of the state schools are top 30 in the midwest (wiscon, OSU, Indiana U, UofMichigan, Ilini, Penn State) so idk honestly. Also man try to raise it, if you def cant then work hard to network from which ever school you think is a safe school. In Ohio I know UD (University of Dayton) has decent AM placement, and in Michigan, Michigan State has some sort of club in their business school.

Also you should do what I did, and that was to look at your safe schools and research to see if they have investment banking clubs ( which many state schools have) and then try networking with the head of those clubs. I called the head of the Indiana U Investment banking workshop, the president of the Michigan Investment Banking Club, The head of the Nittany Lion Fund in Penn State and the head of the Fisher Futures investment banking program at OSU. From there most of them told me they would train me in modeling and more about Ibanking when I got there.

You gotta network buddy

Good luck

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed, Go Bucks!!
 

hmm i mean most of the state schools are top 30 in the midwest (wiscon, OSU, Indiana U, UofMichigan, Ilini, Penn State) so idk honestly. Also man try to raise it, if you def cant then work hard to network from which ever school you think is a safe school. In Ohio I know UD (University of Dayton) has decent AM placement, and in Michigan, Michigan State has some sort of club in their business school.

Also you should do what I did, and that was to look at your safe schools and research to see if they have investment banking clubs ( which many state schools have) and then try networking with the head of those clubs. I called the head of the Indiana U Investment banking workshop, the president of the Michigan Investment Banking Club, The head of the Nittany Lion Fund in Penn State and the head of the Fisher Futures investment banking program at OSU. From there most of them told me they would train me in modeling and more about Ibanking when I got there.

You gotta network buddy

Good luck

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed, Go Bucks!!
 

I disagree with bossman actually. Do not find a gf, they are a pain in the fucking ass. It may all seem great in the beginning, but give it a few months before you start saying "man, Uncle Flake was right". Just kinda, sleep around etc. The other thing he said I do agree with.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Sorry I meant the top 30 national universities, I do plan on applying to some state schools. And I have to agree more with flake haha, they are a pain, especially at my age because there is no point. But what do you think of other midwest schools like Case Western Reserve, Miami U., etc.?

 

Take a good SAT class, get a tutor. Invest in it and force yourself to test well. It will be worth it in the end, assuming that everything else with your background is pretty solid and standardized tests are your only problem. Like bossman said, even at the top schools you will have to work for those jobs...but the process should be less stressful and the odds should be much better.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

I have taken ACT classes and still only have a 26, I have a 4.3 weighted GPA and many extracurriculars. My problem is what schools to apply to. I was originally was going to apply to wharton because I have legacy but the chances of me getting in are so small and I want to enjoy college and not just study the whole time. I would love to go to Northwestern or Michigan but my ACT is holding me down.

 
midwest 101:
I have taken ACT classes and still only have a 26, I have a 4.3 weighted GPA and many extracurriculars. My problem is what schools to apply to. I was originally was going to apply to wharton because I have legacy but the chances of me getting in are so small and I want to enjoy college and not just study the whole time. I would love to go to Northwestern or Michigan but my ACT is holding me down.

Not to be a dick or anything but just pointing out a few things: I scored reasonably well on the ACT and I wasn't in the top 10% of my class. I went to a top prep school in my area. Testing well is a skill, and it sounds like your school is pretty damn easy or you are not used to testing. You are competing with kids who test well and have everything else, so your options are to either: A)improve yourself and test well or B) give up. I would strongly suggest getting a tutor as those scores will keep you out of top schools, no matter how good everything else is. Keep trying man, and you will get there.

 

Can you retake the ACT? I don't even know how the high school process works anymore.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Yea You can Case Western is a great school for enginnering and the sort, there business is a Big 4 magnet, but that is really all. Miami is also decent but doesnt have as big a network as OSU, and miami is in the middle of nowhere btw the average ACT at OSU was a 28-29 for incoming freshman (you need a 30+ to get into Fisher College of business directly) and MiamiU is 28. So OSU is best in Ohio in my opinion.

You dont really need to worry just try your best and party it up. Just dont completely F up your GPA until 2nd semester starts.

Flake:
Can you retake the ACT? I don't even know how the high school process works anymore.

You can take it many times :D (colleges mostly take highest score)

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed, Go Bucks!!
 

I have taken it three times-22,25,26, and taking it again in september along with my first SAT in October. But I will probably put too much pressure on myself and get another 26

 

I think the most important part is that you're starting this early and hopefully you will stay focused in college, which should more than compensate for attending a lesser/non-target school. Try to re-take the ACT/SAT or whatever and just apply to all the schools you like. Apply to the schools Ambition mentioned. Why not? Look at Businessweek's undergrad business school rankings for ideas (or FT rankings or whoever).

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Since you probably will not get into MIchigan, I would highly suggest Wisconsin or Indiana. Both of those schools have Investment Banking Clubs/Workshops that place decently well in NY and very well into Chi, especially MMs there. If you go to either of those schools, work hard, network, and find good internships before your junior year, you will be in a very good situation.

 

blackrainn, I go to the only prep school in my area and have had an ACT tutor at Sylvan. The ACT just isn't something that I do well on, there are other people in the same situation. I just feel like the school that I go to really affects my internship/job opportunities for ibanking and was just seeing what some options for me are.

Thanks for all the responses and for now I am just going to focus on studying hard for the upcoming tests. Also, if I do not get into a target school then which major would be the best to prepare for ibanking?

 

Finance and accounting. Just do your best btw I used sylvan and it was worthless for me because honestly for me I was motivated and when I went there my teacher was hot so all I did was stare. Then I am like F this, and got a nice prep book and went through all the practice problems and learned the strategies.

Good Luck

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed, Go Bucks!!
 

Well I had a fat, ugly tutor so that wasn't really a problem for me. I just got an ACT book and am hoping it will pay off. And yes if I end up going to a non-target i was planning on a Finance major with a possible Accounting minor, so that is good.

 

if your going to go to a state school in the midwest that isnt Mich, Wisc or Illinois id just go to your state school. Youll save tons of money and none of the other ones place well enough (imho) to make it worth spending the extra $$$. As earlier stated they all have ibanking clubs and youd be suprised how few people from the midwest actually want to be ibankers, so you actually can get some good networking out of them. (I have a buddy who did this at U of Iowa and he works at a BB now).

But I would echo the comments on getting a tutor. If you have a 4.3 GPA (assuming that is as strong as it sounds), you should be scoring better than a 26. If you've taken it 3 times and havent improved drastically, prolly time to get some help from a pro.

 

My alma mater (Wake Forest) now allows applicants to apply without SAT scores. I believe a few other universities planned on following suit. If your GPA and extra currics are up to par you might want to take a look.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

Miami is pretty good school, but OSU-Fisher is still better IMO. A lot better location wise, thats for sure.

"There are only two opinions in this world: Mine and the wrong one." -Jeremy Clarkson
 

To get into a top tier school.

Dominate your first and second semester, and it will be exponentially get in and transfer.

Doing well your first year in college can compensate immensely for low test scores.

no way kimosabe, this is my house now --Brennan Huff
 

I live in Wisconsin so madison is my state school but I have never been a big fan of the school. I was planning on maybe transferring into a better school but I know I won't study hard enough in college for my GPA to make an impression on other schools.

 

Hey I got in Michigan, Wisconsin, IU, Penn State and OSU and like some of the people above here said I picked the school that was cheaper OSU. Wisconsin is a great school man. Just start networking a bit with there investment club teacher advisor and just starting building a network. Thats the best you can do now! \

Good Luck

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed, Go Bucks!!
 

haha well you only want midwest? northeastern is a decent school with a lot of Co-ops at banks too like GS. (it might be in your range)

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed, Go Bucks!!
 

I can go anywhere for school and have been almost everywhere I could think of and for some reason the midwest is the most comfortable to me. I have heard that schools like Northeastern and Fordham could be possibilities. Northeastern could be an option but I dont like the idea of going to school in the Bronx, frankly anything in NY besides Manhattan is awful.

 

^^^^haha my ACT was the day after my junior prom, I went to prom ( the after party and the after-after party) then came back home at 8 A.M. and took a shower 1 hour nap then off to ACT land for a 4 hour test :D....... Dont do that man. ( it was for some reason my best one)

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed, Go Bucks!!
 

"Northeastern could be an option but I dont like the idea of going to school in the Bronx" as written

Bro, I saw your post and what you said about Fordham. You just didnt seperate your phrase correctly so I got confused it really looks like you are refering to Northeastern when you statedyour opinons about the Bronx ^

Maybe I just suck at reading. ;D

Also, I wonder why that is a pattern, :O it should be on their Kaplan books.. haha

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed, Go Bucks!!
 

1. You are a junior....in HS. Don't worry so much about going into investment banking or private equity. Go bang a lot of girls and your goal before graduating HS is to get into top schools (Ivy League/top state schools such as Michigan etc). Decide if business is the path you want to pursue - if it is, then do some research on the top schools aka target schools in the country. Going to a "target" school will help out in finance recruiting; University of Arizona will limit your opportunities drastically.

2. Read more about careers in investment banking/high finance in general. From the way you described, you are intrigued by the money you make, not the things you do on a day to day basis. Also, understand what you actually do is important and the trade off for doing finance and see if it is really for you.

 

Will an MBA from a prestigious program offset a non-target undergrad school in the recruiting process or will banks still place a lot of emphasis on where I went for my Bachelor's?

 

.

Use more debt than your competition or get out of the business. Any other policy is either self-limiting, no-win, or a bet that the competition will go bankrupt before they displace you. - Bruce Henderson
 

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Use more debt than your competition or get out of the business. Any other policy is either self-limiting, no-win, or a bet that the competition will go bankrupt before they displace you. - Bruce Henderson
 

.

Use more debt than your competition or get out of the business. Any other policy is either self-limiting, no-win, or a bet that the competition will go bankrupt before they displace you. - Bruce Henderson
 

As a high school student, your best bet is to use your network and your families network. Most internships for high school students are favors. Being a stockbroker is all about using your network to win business, so trying to find an early internship will actually be terrific practice for this. That being said, no one will worry if you didn't work in a corporate setting as a high school student. It can be helpful for future business classes to have worked on the front lines as a store clerk, cashier etc.

 

do you know what a stockbroker is and what he does? start there (hint: my blog is good for that)

bloomberg is directionally correct but meh in substance (sorry broseph stalin), my advice to you: don't worry about it right now, PWM is a career, not a stepping stone to something else. focus on getting into the best college possible, try to have fun along the way, and put yourself in a position with as many options as possible. PWM is all about relationships (as is life) so just try to be a good people person, you'll be fine in whatever you do. a great way to practice closing (essential to success in PWM) is to hook up with a super hot chick (assuming you're a guy), that's about as hard of a sale as a millionaire.

 

4.0 that bitch and make as many friends as you can. Handling people (most valuable skill, period) is best taught through experience and being likeable will catch you more breaks than you can imagine. As @"thebrofessor" said, go for the 10s.

 

Get accepted into one of those programs you listed... do well and actually learn some stuff in your classes ... pursue relevant internships early and often ... maintain gpa of 3.5+ (preferably 3.75+) . understand finance concepts rather than memorize formulas

Join a fraternity (social) ... might not be the most well received advice on this board, but half the battle is having a network you can leverage and greek life provides an awesome network.

http://thefraternityadvisor.com/greek-life-statistics/

Dont forget to have an awesome time while at university ... there are hardly better years than college (arguably senior year in high school)...

 

I see thanks Stalin

And yea Senior year has already been amazing so far (more parties than ever before). But regardless, do you have any recommendations on which school to go to? I know Wharton has a Greek life. Any schools that would just make life a lot easier for me because I know that it's a pretty big decision to make. Or possibly a great business school that's closer to the $40k spectrum and not 50 as I've heard it's better to have the least amount of debt possible after school. But then again I've also heard that an MBA is a must if you want to go up high up in Wall Street. This is all just things I've heard from friends and teachers etc so if I'm wrong on anything just let me know.

Thanks

 

Take some time to research some of the old forums on this site, most of your questions can be answered with a little research. The MBA has become less vital to move high up in certain Wall Street roles and given your 8-10 years away from considering Business school, probably not worth discussing further.

As far as picking a school, you need to strike a balance between the best school you can get into at a price you can afford. If you can get aid / merit scholarships at a good state school (UVA, Mich, UT, UNC) versus paying full price at an Ivy; you'll still have a great opportunity to get a job in finance while have ~1000x more fun during college.

 

Just pick a target school and enjoy life. Focus on getting good grades once you get into college, securing internships and networking but don't forget to actually experience college. People on here are so wigged out about making sure they follow some secure path - which isn't wrong. BUT, you need to enjoy life. If you get the grades with a brand name and as long as you have a heartbeat and social skills you should be fine.

"Stretch the spread.”
 

"NYU, Villanova, Mendoza, UVA, Ann Arbor MIT, and of course the other Ivies (Although other than Wharton im not too interested in any of the Ivies)"

The fact that you listed everything from the hyper-conservative Notre Dame to large public schools like UVA tells me you're going into this process wrong. College isn't simply about trying to get a job on Wall St, if you're smart and dedicated you can get in from literally anywhere. I'm not saying Wharton and Arizona State have the same chances, due to a number of factors such as OCR and alumni connections, but at the level you're talking about (ie top schools outside of Ivy League) any advantages are relatively insignificant.

The most important factor you should be considering is fit. Each school has it's own unique culture, and I strongly advise you reach out to current students on social media and get a feel for what it's like. You'll be spending 4 entire years here, which is arguably longer than what most people on these boards spend in IB before moving to the buy-side/different industry.

After you determine which schools you like best, a factor you should consider is the competitiveness of the applicant pool. If you're an average kid (relative), it might be best to go for the safer choices like Wharton or Stern if they fit into your profile. If you consider yourself above average, then you really can't go wrong with any of the schools you listed. Also don't be so deadset on business school, I went to a top 10 program but just 3 months into the program I realized it's not what I want to do. Switched to Econ&Math and I'm actually learning something.

Keep an open mind, choose based on yourself not on prestige, join greek life if you're into parties, and enjoy these 4 years. Work hard enough and you will get that "awesome" job on Wall St working 100 hrs/week.

 

Thanks Hugh

And yea I've been hearing relatively the same thing from many different peers that as long as I do relatively well in college that I'll be fine. As of now to be quite honest im not even %100 sure that I want to do IB. I still have many different options that Im taking a look at (although IB is generally what I'm leaning towards due to the salary and how far I can myself in 10 years of working in IB (My goal in life is to someday make 7 figures)). So generally as long as I choose a good school I should be fine for any other options in the case that I change my major or something of that sort. And yea college life will play a HUGE part in what I choose as I dont want to go to a college that is not social and has a great atmosphere greek life included. If you dont mind what made you switch after 3 months in?

Again thanks for the help

 

If you mean get your foot in the door the summer before college, then it's hard for a firm to hire a HS grad to do anything meaningful unless you're truly passionate about investing and finance -- the fact that you're asking the question here probably means that's not quite you. No worries though, I spent the summer before college having fun and wasting time, and so should you.

I think if you just enjoy yourself, maybe travel a bit and read up on general investing/finance and the industry, you'll be better prepared than most at least in terms of which area you might be more interested in. Private equity, hedge funds, and investment banks are all in the same ecosystem but they're quite different in terms of work and culture. It helps to know how they are all interrelated and what you're most curious about.

If you're really determined to have work experience by the time you're in college, I would suggest directly emailing the senior management (CEO, head of biz dev) at small (>$10m funding) startups for finance/biz dev roles. It's better than nothing, and in a smaller group of people you might get some decent responsibility now and then. My first internship was spring of my freshman year in college. I worked at a startup completely unrelated to finance, but my supervisor happened to be an ex-banker who got me interested.

Whatever you end up doing, enjoy senior year! It won't come around again for a while, and you'll have plenty of time to grind. Even being on this site means you're ahead of the curve now.

 

While the business programs and placement may be great, don't forget that's only one aspect of the entire university experience. There are many, many other reasons to want to attend these schools that add to a holistic experience other than "I want to work in finance and make lots of money". NYU wants reasons other than that it's based in NYC, for example, the multicultural melting pot of the student body or the extensive study abroad opportunities they offer. Don't know enough about Cornell, but worth talking to current students and alumni about those other reasons to attend.

 
aruubato:
tool
oh and besides for being tool hes also an idiot. If he wanted intellectual stimulating debate he should have majored in something other than prelaw premed and prebanking. If you go into these tracks, your not there for stimulating talks on kant and locke, your there to learn about these not-so-subjective fields and then compete in the extremely competitive labor markets that these fields present. Again if you want some intellectual stuff be an english major/science (non-premed)/sociology Oh and if he doesn't realize by now that people will always naturally gravitate towards their socioeconomic group then good luck for the real world.
 

True enough but definitely exaggerated. I don't know what school you are at, but at my wonderful Jesuit non-ivy target school there is still a glow of intellectualism. It is true that the eros of knowing 'why' simply for the sake of it is not alive and kickin, but it's not dead. Don't tell these kids that there is no Santa, let them dream, maybe they will be able to stick to their hopes and ambitions.

 

You might get the job, so can anyone but I'd bet you won't last in it... or you might just suck a couple of dicks to get to the top... either way you suck... enjoy GS

 

Lol this board is ridiculous; this kid is telling it like it is. He is commenting on how the expectations of college are completely divergent from the reality and he is totally right. Thinks like "well you're an idiot for expecting intellectual discussion" or "you may get the job but you won't last" are completely stupid comments from people who are insecure after reading his piece. He definitely is being an asshole in his letter but that doesn't make him wrong.

I am not attacking you guys on this thread and I hope you won't turn around and make this a "well what have you done?" attack (though I know that's what it will degenerate into), this is just something to seriously think about.

boozer:
Lol this board is ridiculous; this kid is telling it like it is. He is commenting on how the expectations of college are completely divergent from the reality and he is totally right. Thinks like "well you're an idiot for expecting intellectual discussion" or "you may get the job but you won't last" are completely stupid comments from people who are insecure after reading his piece. He definitely is being an asshole in his letter but that doesn't make him wrong.

I am not attacking you guys on this thread and I hope you won't turn around and make this a "well what have you done?" attack (though I know that's what it will degenerate into), this is just something to seriously think about.

Yes, you are attacking them, in a sense (calling them "insecure," "stupid comments" and so forth), so just man up and admit it.

But should this kid really have been expecting intellectual stimulation? No, unless he's majoring in classics or somethin

 

I kno at my highschool we didn't have this odd perception that college was like Good Will Hunting or some other amazing intellectual discovery. It's the grades after 12th grade and you learn what you go to major in, I don't normally expect to meet the next Kant or Locke in my english class.

Also if you want to talk about the reality of college it is not college but labor markets that have created the situation into what it is. You have a few professions that make ridiculous amounts of money and a growing population that brings more and more competitors to the labor market. Then you have to figure out ways to give person A the job over person B. As time went by, extra educational requirements were created to weed people out. I don't mean to say banking is for idiots, but I think most people agree that it is something that most people could understand. So now colleges are a competitive environment of premed,prelaw,prebanking kids. If you want more writers, then create a system that rewards writing.... if you want more scientist, create a system that rewards it..... but why do graduate school (besides law or medicine) and live as the starving artist or thinker because our society has no system of adequate rewards for it? This issue was created by labor market movements in the US.

I am only attacking the idea that people think college is some Good Will Hunting adventure where genius is everywhere and people sit around talking about philosophy..... and I don't know where that perception came from--either movies or your high school experience. I can definately tell you that I am sure the kid who wrote that letter has rubbed quite a few people the wrong way.... if he chooses to give off that attitude in the work place.... he may not be fired, but he will definately annoy the hell out of his coworkers. Lets just hope he can use some Kant or Locke or fraternity bros to earn his division good profits lol...

 

I also have a list of other undergrad schools I might attend: Penn State U. Park, Indiana Univ. Bloomington, Purdue Univ., Rutgers-New Brunswick, U of Iowa, Syracuse, Fordham, U. Mass. Amherst, and Boston University.

What would be the best school for business as an undergrad?

Philos
 

This is such a horrible idea. If you're smart enough to start college as a junior, then you should NOT be going to Stony Brook. Work for 2 years and get an MBA? What kind of decent job could you possibly get coming from Stony Brook? Is your plan to cook really amazing french fries at White Castle and then get into HBS?

The only decent schools you have mentioned so far are Stern and Indiana. If you go to Indiana, make sure you major in business.

_______________________________________ http://www.drmarkklein.blogspot.com/
 

I am sure the OP is choosing schools based on those that would accept his already done 2 years of liberal arts college (I assume these credits were taken at a local university). Mark klein is right though..... Bloomington and stern are the only two colleges so far listed that could really put you into a good finance career.... otherwise your going to have to graduate #1 in the class and still have a ridiculous resume to work off. I definitely think it would be better for you to go to a better college for all four years as opposed to the ones listed for 2 years.... first you will already be ahead ..... and second you will have much better opportunities coming out of school.

 

Yeah, NDkid makes a good point. You're already ahead. I'm going to take a wild guess and speculate that your social life is lacking. If I'm wrong, and I very well could be, disregard the following:

Why are you in such a hurry? Most people will tell you that college was the best 4 years of their lives. A lot of your male peers, when they first enter the real world, will have spent those years getting laid/dating. Do you want to be playing catch-up when you're 25 because you have no idea how to talk to a girl? End up marrying the first girl who pities you enough to date you, hoping that your money will keep her interested? C'mon dude. That's a whole chapter of your life, and you're going to jump over it like it's a mud puddle and realize you can't go back. This is another wild guess, but I bet you've already made this mistake with high school while you were bulking up on credits for your associates degree.

_______________________________________ http://www.drmarkklein.blogspot.com/
 

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Mollitia qui velit voluptas et assumenda esse. Qui cum inventore repudiandae facilis occaecati adipisci itaque praesentium. Animi rerum eaque et atque sed repellendus doloremque. Laboriosam et voluptatem vel suscipit vero aliquid mollitia accusantium. Consequuntur enim illum vel totam doloribus aut dolor. Molestiae ipsam et alias quas occaecati quisquam aspernatur. Sint assumenda et explicabo aut. Illum est minima culpa odio omnis perspiciatis enim.

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Philos
 

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Philos
 

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Placeat ipsa ut debitis nulla est sequi neque illum. Aperiam aut eum aliquam est aliquam sed maiores.

 

Fugiat quas aut vel. Accusantium id itaque unde et ad. Consequatur repellendus mollitia qui quasi. Cumque tempora dolores et ipsam enim corporis. Cumque rerum porro rem vero.

Accusamus maiores et cumque et. Eligendi aliquid odio mollitia expedita necessitatibus nulla. Rerum et ratione suscipit ea. Velit nam quae omnis ut. Ut eius fugiat impedit ullam sit ipsam quidem animi.

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Philos

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