Moving to NYC...with no job
Hey all,
Long story short, I'm moving to NYC to break into the world of finance, specifically equity research. I don't have a job or place lined up yet, but I have a list of a dozen or so contacts that I plan on working. Since I'm graduating from a non-target with a decent GPA, I feel like I have no other shot. Has anyone ever tried this? What good advice can you guys give me?
I know the risk involved, so I'm willing to look for non-finance jobs if it is apparent that my "dream" job just isn't going to happen.
What's your background? Where do you currently live? This is a terrible idea. Do you know how much rent is in NYC? Why don't you move somewhere outside of NYC
BA in Finance and BS in Economics from non-target state school ~ 3.0 GPA. I will be entering the CFA program shortly. I currently live on the West Coast. Yes, I know how much rent is. I will be staying with a family member for the first two months until I get my footing. I've been looking at places in Brooklyn and Jersey City.
Not trying to bring you down or discourage you but a 3.0 from anywhere, let alone a west coast non target is not considered a decent gpa in the world of finance.
I'm well aware of the perceptions of a 3.0 GPA. This is why I plan on landing a positions through alumni networking and friends as opposed to formal recruitment. I'm well aware of the challenges, so we don't need to re-cover that ground. I would like general advice though on specific networking strategies, general positive advice, etc.
As I mentioned, I will be considering non-finance roles if I'm unable to land a research/banking role.
I say go for it. Follow your dreams. You will have a free place to stay so there isn't much to lose. Also, it is certainly possible to live on the cheap in NYC, there are cheap rooms, cheap bars, cheap restaurants, cheap grocery stores... you just have to find them.
I would give myself a firm time limit in order to get shit done. Say 2 or 3 months. You're really gona have to put yourself out there and network all day every day. Also, open yourself up to anything. If you just focus on ER you may let an opportunity slip away.
I like it bankforyourbuck! Thank you for the positive, no bs, practical response. I think you really understand what I'm trying to do.
Since I don't have a job right now anyway, why not move to NYC? It is my dream to live in NYC and work in finance, so I would be following my dream. And if shit hits the fan, just like any major city, there are plenty or other jobs lower on the totem pole.
Thanks my man!
i like your motivation, but be mindful of coming across as desperate when u meet people, always be agressive persistent and confident, but not toolish (wouldnt say its my dream to work in finance to a contact that u meet)
There are jobs in finance on the west coast too... You should be working any contacts or potential contacts you have anywhere at this point.
delete
I'll take my comments back. You're young, go for it. Good luck.
OP, I would have done this in a heart beat a while back if only I had had a family member to stay with like you. Go for it, man. Follow your dreams. Intern for free, do anything to get experience. Good luck.
Do it, I did it. Moved to NYC after missing a placement due to finishing my degree over the summer. Moved here with 2 bags and 3 suits. Hustled all day, everyday. Spent my days in coffee shops in west village. Connected with anyone that was willing to talk via. LinkedIn, email, socializing, etc. You can definitely do it and don't leave it up to anyone tell you different.
With risk comes opportunity. No better place to do it than NYC. I came from a non-target like yourself and I am doing comfortably for myself eight months after moving here. Like someone said earlier set a target for yourself. 2 months was mine and I found a job after two months. After you have a solid foundation as a entry level financial professional you can look to move into ER if it doesn't work out initially.
Essentially, get a job in NYC. You will meet people, meet more people and you will find something / someone who can help you. PM if you need any advice. Best of Luck!
OP,
I am planning on doing the exact same thing this summer. I don't have family in NYC but am thinking of renting a studio and sharing it with two other people (not luxury by any means but I am ready to do whatever it takes). I am looking for I-banking jobs and will try to find an unpaid internship at a boutique when I am there. I am planning to fund this with a couple of credit cards (about $2500-$3000) in total. I figure it gives me around 3 months in the city (I am going to live mostly on ramen noodles) to find an internship, kick some serious ass when I do find one, and find a full time job (before I run out of credit limit and have to start working at Starbucks).
Risky? Hell yea! But five years from now when I look back at this, I would rather end up on the street after having done everything I could have than sit and wonder "What if?".
Good luck.
PS: There's a good chance this might end badly for us but I guess we can deal with it when we get there.
if you care about your future regarding your personal finances, you will not do this. this is very irrational
I absolutely agree that this is risky. If I don't manage to get something, I am screwed. However, I have given this is a lot of thought (including most of the questions you mentioned in the post above) and I think I am ok with the risk.
How do I expect to pay for travel, food, entertainment?:
Credit Cards, like I mentioned. The monthly subway pass for travel, cheap groceries (Queens has stores where you can buy groceries really cheap), and minimal entertainment (till I find a job anyway).
Would I spend on credit without an income (I am assuming you mean credit cards)?:
Yes, I am all in at this point.
What happens if I don't get a job after three months?:
If I have found an unpaid internship by then, I would ask them if I can reduce my hours to part time (four days a week). I would work the other three days to pay for my expenses. End of three months means end of summer. Most summer interns would leave and boutiques will have greater need for local, unpaid, part-time interns.
If I haven't found an internship by then, my likelihood of finding something would increase as the summer interns would have left (and I am not asking for any compensation). Additionally, if I haven't found anything by then, then I have most likely been working a shit job for three months (Starbucks, waiting tables etc) and would likely have some (minimal but some) cash. I plan to continue this till I get a job. I figure once I am in the industry (albeit through an unpaid internship), something will turn up at some point.
Just some background information. I graduated from a non-target (2010, GPA - 3.7 approx)). Did a Wealth Management summer internship in New York my junior year (UBS/CS/ML). Told my supervisors relatively early that I wanted to do IB. They liked me and so helped me out a lot (contacts, referrals etc) but I didn't manage to land anything. Decided to go to an MS/MFIN type program at a target to have another shot at recruiting (Will graduate with a 3.5/3.6). Got a number of interviews when I was doing the masters program but the lack of banking internships hurt me (consistent feedback across the board). However, I made a ton of contacts through networking/interviewing (One guy who interviewed me for a BB but didn't offer me a position gave me a referral to another BB where I got an interview as well). Like I mentioned above, the most consistent feedback I got across the board was that my lack of internships was holding me back (especially in an environment where most people I was interviewing with had some form of banking internships). That is what I want to address when I am in New York.
I am looking for any kind of advice I can get and would love to hear your thoughts on my plans.
JMu,
Where would you be coming from? It's looking like we are after the same thing. Maybe we should get together and help each other through this process? I'd be down to share a studio!
That sounds great. I'd love to work on this together. I'll be moving there from North Carolina. Right now I am looking at beginning of June (I graduate third week of May). I did an internship in New York for a summer so I have a pretty good idea of the city (transportation, cheap places to shop etc). So, we should be fine as far as that is concerned. Right now I have one other friend that's willing to share a studio with me while another guy who's on the fence (both of them have jobs though). I can definitely let you know if one of them backs out (the third guy most probably will). Just out of curiosity, why would you want to share a studio if you can live somewhere for free (I don't know much about your situation so I'm sorry if this sounds rude)?
I'll PM you my number. We should chat sometime.
Yes, I did it. It was well worth it, for me. Some advice. You are going to need more money than you have saved. Look further south than Jersey City to save money. Live relatively close to a train station for your commute so you don't spend money getting to a train station. Be realistic. Give yourself a time frame to find the job you want, but be prepared to take any job to pay bills. I did it, suffered, but was the best thing I have done.
P.S. It looks damn good on resumes on it's been a great conversation piece.
as a realist, i think this is a terrible idea. moving to NYC without a job is financial suicide(unless you have parents funding you or something, which it sound like you do due to the fact that youre actually contemplating this). So what will you be living off of? Granted that youre staying with relatives, which will keep your expenses down for two months, how do you expect to pay for things like travel, food, entertainment etc? would you spend on credit without an income? what happens in two months if you dont have paid employment? you have to ask yourself these questions. given your academic background, it may be much more difficult than you plan. kids that have 3.0 from targets wont get jobs in finance, let alone from a nontarget. Whats internships have you had in finance? sorry if i sound discouraging, but im just trying to be realistic. I know how hard it is coming from a nontarget myself.
Get a job where you can, then go to NYC...you are much more employable employed than not. The fact that somebody else thinks you are worth some money makes it a much easier sell to the company.
There are too few jobs to get in just by pounding the pavement and networking...everybody knows people they would love to help out. Also, remember each day you are unemployed, the more unemployable you become (more or less; don't take a McJob).
I'd say get a job where your alum network is strongest, build some experience, and then start trading up. Or, get a job with normal hours (PWM? Ops?) lined up in NYC before you go. You can't network much while your contacts are at work anyways, right?
Also, echoing previous advice, this is financial suicide. If you are set on doing this, save a ridiculous amount of money. Like a 6 month fund, adjusted for NYC's CoL. You will need it. This is another good reason to get a job where you are now.
Thanks for the tips west coast rainmaker. Here's how I see it: Since I'm coming out of college (next weekend) without a job offer anyway, what's the difference where I go? My home town/city where my parents live is one the most expensive cities in the US after NYC anyway. So my feeling is that it wouldn't be THAT much more expensive in NYC if I'm smart and prudent (share apartment, reduce expenditures, budget, etc.) As I mentioned, I will definitely be looking for ALL types of jobs, not just IB, ER, etc. But my focus networking wise will be towards financial sector jobs. Can you comment on these thoughts, please? I like you input thus far.
Honestly, these measures are what people do to get out of North Korea or an abusive relationship. Why not get a job in F500, PWM, a boutique, treasury, commercial banking, etc. Work for a year or two and try and network into IB or do an MSF or do an MBA. These extreme measures are for a job that pays well, but is hell.
Either way best of luck. You can break in, but you need to be willing to wait it out and keep grinding. I personally don''t think it is worth it, but if you do, more power to you.
You should start by getting any leads from your previous internships and then cold call the firms in NYC, while you are in you are in your hometown. Tell them you are available to meet during the first week you are there to save time. If you get denied ask for any referrals they have.
Try to secure a job as a server at night, so you have time in the day to network. Also you need the cash flow as soon as you get there to function.
The cheapest studios are about $1,500 plus deposit. You could make it off $700 a month, since you are boarding up with three guys. You probably want to switch your data plan on your phone since you will be broke. You will need probably $2,000 cash for deposit and pay off minimum fees on your credit card.
I was planning to do the same next year, but I got a SA BB in the region. I will just wait and transfer to NYC.
I know someone who did this sort of thing in London. His first gig was at ms on days they were short staffed he would fill in. nothing permanent. he did stuff like this for a while until he got a filing job ag gs. he did great at that for a few weeks and they gave him a full time position. shits possible. open yourself up to temp/non pay jobs and work your ass off. something will eventually present itself
I thought about this at one point, and I think a lot of non-targets in the West do. I was going to sell my car, rent a 3 month hotel room, and give it a shot--but not without exhausting my current state.
I found a job in ER at a MM that I can walk to, and could go to NY anytime, and I'd still probably have trouble finding a job and paying bills there. Seriously, if you cant network and find shit where you are, what makes you think you can in NY, where they will not bat an eyelash at a 3.0 western state school non-target?
But hey, stranger shit has happened, and your opportunity cost is lower now than ever.
If you're going to do that it would be a good idea to get a job with a company like Starbucks or something. Even working ~20 hours per week, bringing in that extra ~$1,000/month will help you not go under as quickly
Can you try to articulate for us why it is your "dream" to work in NY?
buybuybuy,
I sure can. In no particular order: -NYC in one of the largest, most diverse, and spectacular cities in the world. -Given the above point, NYC (more than most cities) offers a large number of activities and lifestyle choices. -It is home to the most fortune 500 companies of any state in the US -It is a global financial center...I studied finance...and I want to work in finance -More than anything, NYC offers more choices and possibilities. I place a high value on having options in life. -Also, the unemployment rate in NY is lower than my current state..combined with more employment options and the other appeals that I've mentioned make it a logical place to live, work, and enjoy my life.
Texas is home to most fortune 500 companies of any state.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2010/states/NY.html
This really is sounding more and more like a bad idea to me. The advantage of staying where you are is the network from your college, and the fact that you can basically mooch off your family for a while. There is a big difference between $0/ month and -$2000 (minimum)/month.
The best plan I have heard in this thread is the MFin/MBA route. You are in a rough spot, but you have a second shot.
And, if you do go to NYC, you won't be going out with some alum every day of the week. What I would recommend is taking maybe a 2-3 day trip, and lining up a bunch of meetings for those few days. You'll save thousands, and you won't come off as "needy". I mean, alumni know that you are networking, but talking to them while unemployed almost makes you seem desperate.
Edit: you talk about activities and enjoying life? You will not have a job when you get there: you will be sharing a studio and eating rice and beans at least 2x per day.
rainmaker,
Additional considerations:
-I have too much debt from undergrad to pursue another degree right now -It is true that I will have a network from my university in this area....but in careers that I'm not interested in (general f-500 corp. finance) -My family consists of 3 people...2 of which are moving across the country in a year -I may have a place to stay in NY for free...temporarily -I don't expect to engage in high cost activities (dinners, events, etc) immediately. I'm aware of the struggle that will ensue for several years after I move there -NYC offers non-finance jobs that I will be looking at too. NYC has a TON more employment options than my current city...
You aren't going to be getting any sort of in high finance for years after you move there...it would likely be a faster and more certain route to get that f500 job, get a MBA, then go to NYC.
I mean, getting a job in NYC is not easy even in good times. If you really want to maximize your employment opportunities, go to Texas/Utah/the general midwest, where unemployment is much lower and you will not be jumping into the shark tank that is the NYC job market. Lower costs of living will let you pay down that debt also.
How much time have you spent in NYC? Right now, your plan seems akin to girls that go to Hollywood and wait tables for the chance at breaking into the film industry...most are still waiting tables 20 years later.
It is going to be very difficult to break into finance with a non-target background, low GPA, distant alum network, and no formal recruiting. I shouldn't even say difficult, as that implies it depends on hard work. You would have to be very lucky.
You could spend easily spend 10 years job hopping in NYC and still not get into ER; like IBD, most applicants come from the traditional recruiting channels: ugrad and MBA recruiting. It's maybe even worse because ER doesn't have the same attrition IBD does.
If you aren't willing/able to do a MFin, your best bet is to take a job that will maximize your MBA admission chances. F500 corp fin is actually pretty good here. Also, you could always request an internal transfer to NYC after a few years on the job. A string of temp/low skilled jobs in NYC will leave you where you started: in debt, and with a weak resume.
If you really are set on doing this, nobody is going to stop you. Just think about the wisdom of moving to one of the most expensive cities on earth, with unemployment near historic highs, no job lined up, and few connections. Do you really think you will be able to achieve your ultimate goal of ER in NYC more quickly by going there, versus waiting a few years and getting a MBA?
They say it's always easier to find a new job when you already have one, why not get a job there in some corporate role, live outside the city on a budget, and start networking in the city any chance you get. That way you're 1) not going into debt 2) potentially making money 3) working towards doing what you want to do and 4) making good contacts.
I say go for it.
But definitely lock down some type of temporary employment when you get the NY. Also, it's unlikely you'll be able to afford a place in NY after your 2 months of staying with family. I live in Jersey City, five minutes from the PATH train, and rent is a third of what I would pay in the city.
This is not the type of thing you want to try for 2 months, and not see through. Get a job, find a cheap place, and stick it out.
Rainmaker,
Well, I appreciate your input. You strike a very rational cord. I think your comparison of my situation to that of "girls that go to Hollywood and wait tables" is a bit extreme, but I understand your point. I'm wondering if I can get you to switch gears a bit. What advice can you offer me if I decide to make the move? It would be helpful if you can make some specific recommendations since I've already been mulling over many of the details myself.
Not that extreme in my opinion. This really is a very long shot, but good luck. Just be ready to settle for something else. As others have said, taking a corporate finance job sounds like the best option for you. Then hope to get into IB after your MBA. The expected amount of time spent before breaking into IB seems smaller in the CF==>MBA==>IB route than the hustling in NYC route given your less-than-stellar credentials.
That being said, good luck!
You do realize you are going to risk your financial well being for a job that pays decent, but works you like a slave. The smarter thing to do would be to get a credit analyst position at a bank and try moving over to a MM or boutique shop.
This "plan" of yours is rife with disaster.
I would like to reiterate...for the fourth time...that I will be exploring ALL career opportunities in NYC. Corporate finance at all of the Fortune 500's in NYC, project management jobs, supply chain management jobs. In addition, I will be networking in hopes of obtaining an ER position since my current location lacks the presence of ER or banking firms. It's not like this is Goldman Sachs or bust. I WILL be applying to Verizon, Metlife, Pfizer, and dozens of other non-financial companies.
I hope you realize that even if you get somewhere doing this, the lag time between interview, offer and first pay check is pretty damn long. Once again, be prepared to be broke for 6 months to one year. Randomly showing up in the most competitive city in the USA is not an easy task.
Ha ha ha ha. I know it's gonna suck man. But I have been chasing this banking thing for a while now (2008-2010 wasn't a great environment for non-targets). I know I'll regret it later if I don't give this one last shot.
Like someone said, gotta ask yourself "if the juice is worth the squeeze".
I'll let everyone know how this turns out.
I'm betting you'll regret it even if you try and "succeed."
buybuybuy,
Please elaborate...
He means that banking is a bitch at the junior levels
irocktheyellow has relatives to live with in NYC, so opportunity cost of pursuing his dream is not high. Please do give yourself a deadline to pursue your dream, if you exhaust all your possibilities within that time, then you should move on.
Most people in finance, particularly in NY, hate their work. I just think that it would suck for you to go through hell for a year or two before you realize this. Hopefully you already understand what these jobs entail and my posts will have no bearing on your decision.
Only for 2 months starwin, then he's on his own. Definitely changes things.
For the people that have done this, could you guys elaborate a bit more on your experience? Did you have the money to do it? Did it work out? What specific unforeseen issues did you face? If you could go back, would you do it again?
I am pretty set on doing this (unless I land something in the next 2 weeks) and I'd really appreciate any help.
PS: I interned in New York for seven months (a semester and a summer, although it was in WM) and networked like crazy, so I understand buybuybuy's point (of most people at the analyst level hating their jobs). Nevertheless, like I said, I am pretty set on doing this.
I dropped out of college, quit my job in IT, and moved to NYC. I had some financial backing but lived as cheaply as I could. Got dressed up in a suit and tie every day, bright and early, and knocked on doors of startups and companies, handed out resumes, and talked to anyone I thought could get me an opportunity (on the street and subway). A little less than a month in, I landed an unpaid internship at the NYMEX (after meeting a trader on the train - yes, I know, random), then got a paid position working for a trader there, and now moved out of the building on to a small hedge fund. Looking back, I sort of wish I'd finished school beforehand, but in the general sense of things, I also have had an absolute blast these past 2 years and have no real regrets. I'm still young and can always go back. Completely by chance I landed on Wall Street; it wasn't on my mind at all coming here. Getting a trading job like I wanted (after starting the internship) was fucking rough (degree or no degree). I basically networked my butt off, did consulting work on the side for money (repairing computers, writing programs for people), and eventually someone saw value in me and hired me. My story may be a tad off the wall and out of the ordinary, but crazy things do happen. I say give it a shot; you'll have a blast and it will probably be some of the most memorable moments of your life.
Best of luck
You should read the book "Who Your City" by Richard Florida. It gives an interesting perspective of where you live in the U.S. determines a lot about you and your opportunities in life. I found about it on the WSJ.
If he doesn't find a job in two months, he should move on. Two month is enough time to see if he can make it or not in NYC. He has a list of contacts and leads to start from. This is the only time he will be able to take this risk before his debt burdens him. Two months of risk is better than a lifetime of regret.
Pretty sure this is how Henry Blodget got his start. If nobody hires you, just start your own ER firm and sell your research.
I think it's a terrible idea. I would recommend getting a job first where you are (since it would be a lot easier based on contacts, networking, alums, whatever), and then, while EMPLOYED for 1-2 yrs, start working with recruiters to get something and move to NYC.
This is exactly akin to someone moving to Hollywood to pursue acting. Identical. Did I mention that it's exactly the same. If I had a thesaurus I would throw out a few more words for good measure.
As far as what you can do, I suggest you pray to whichever God you believe in. There is a sensible way to go about breaking into Finance in NYC, and this is not it. To me, and I am trying to be totally honest here, I think you are looking for the thrill in this and it's not so much about breaking into Finance. I think if it were, you would be going about it the sensible way. Minimally sensible would be having some cash saved up to get by and not going the route of bankruptcy guy in 3-5 yrs. You think your student loans are brutal, wait until that credit card interest is hitting you for like 18% on your basic living expenses.
I think you are doing this regardless of what anybody tells you, and with that being the case, I think it's telling that this is a mistake. Either way, good luck to you, and in spite of my negative comments, I hope you prove most of us (can't believe anyone thinks this is a good idea) wrong and succeed. Let us all know how it goes.
Absolutely DO NOT move to NYC without a job lined up.
Even if you were to land your finance job, if it takes you several months to finally land that job you will still first and foremost be paying back credit card bills. It's almost next to impossible to live in a place for under $1100/mo (unless you want to live in a closet)
Even at my firm where we have several "strong recommendations" from mid to senior level employees, the hires are still far from guaranteed.
You are much better working off at a financial firm or even non-financial firm outside NYC and going from there.
I think it's a higher risk strategy, but if you really want to work in NYC and the market in California stinks, there are dumber moves that you can make.
Couple thoughts:
1.) Have you tried to line up a job on the west coast? It's a much safer and more conservative strategy. 2.) Have you considered getting an NY bartender's license? It's a lot easier to cover your expenses and look for work if you have a more freelance-type job that can be done on the evenings and weekends.
Illini,
Great questions and thank you for commenting.
Yes, I've been looking with some success. I've had several interviews and I believe I may receive an offer shortly. For many of the reasons already mentioned throughout this thread, I still want to take my chances in NYC. I can elaborate on these points if you would like. I'm after as much constructive criticism and advice as I can receive.
Actually, I've been looking into getting my security license and bouncing at a bar or nightclub. I have two years of nightclub bouncing experience in a place that regularly packs 800 people in on Fri/Sat nights.
Thanks!
Hmmm. Taking a solid job offer in CA vs. going out to NYC without anything lined up seems like an obvious choice to me, but I am fairly conservative when it comes to taking risk. I disagree with it, but it sounds like you've made your decision and at least done as much planning as anyone can for it.
The key, then, is an interim income strategy and a backup plan. If you can't line up anything within three months of graduation, you need to be ready to go crawling back to CA and see if they're still willing to hire you. Failing that, you are aware that you could spend the next couple decades as a bouncer or bartender if this fails, right?
I hope you have a backup plan, or at least are the independant type. NYC is not a happy friendly place. If you are seriously committided and have some kind of fallback, I commend you on your bravery. My personal view is that the financial industry will be hiring a shit ton of people over the next few years given that they cleaned house from 2008 to 2009, so now's as good a time as any to start. Why are you going to such an extreme though? ER isn't done only in NYC.....
The timing of your post is, to say the least, highly ironic. PMd you.
You have a job in CA?! If you get the offer (and it's a respectable firm), take it and do give the whole NYC thing a second thought. I am not just saying this because the left coast is the best coast.
I don't mean to criticize you, but you are not exactly a target candidate for most firms with a 3.0 from a non-target and light work exp. Unemployment is near historic highs, and both CA and NY are above the national average. If you get a decent job now, you take it. If this is a f500, moving to NYC down the line won't be hard, either internally or via a MBA.
I had friends at semi-targets with 3.6+'s who had actual relatives at banks, and they still didn't get offers at those firms. To still go to NYC if you have a job lined up is just irrational, and a little immature. There are so many unemployed experienced candidates who are looking for work, and the moment you turn down that offer you are back out competing with them.
I have a friend that is doing this very thing right now and his stats are very close to yours. He's been in NYC for about 5-6 months and is a waiter and broke as hell.
Good luck man, you're gonna need it.
^^^ Completely agree with WCR. With unemployment running 9% and people I know looking for work for three years straight, a bird in the hand is worth more like three or four in the bush. And with the planet exceeding its carrying capacity- too many people, not enough work- the unemployment situation could get worse.
I think the OP has thought his decision through, but I'm not sure he's calculated the magnitude of the risk. There is no guarantee OP will wind up with a middle-class career like his parents did. Without a deferred offer of admission from grad school, you cannot traipse off to NYC without understanding that if things don't work out, you could easily be stuck working as a bouncer or bartender for the next 40 years.
But I also have a feeling that OP is one of those people who is always going to wonder how things would have worked out if he didn't go- how the dice would have landed. If it's any comfort, it's pretty clear that if there's a utility of 1 of winding up spending the rest of his life as a bouncer and bartender, a utility of 2 in having a decent middle-class life in California, and a utility of 5 in becoming a bigwig NYC banker, the odds favor not rolling the dice, taking the job in CA, and maybe giving it one more shot with an MBA in four or five years (not factored in this analysis.)
Here is what I'm struggling with: How do you balance between being obsurdly rational and taking a job as a janitor (because a job is a job) and shooting for that IB analyst job at Goldman Sachs (because this is your goal). I know these are extreme choices, but I'm simply trying to illustrate my dilemma:
When does a choice become too rational (ie. you are accepting something beneath you) vs. when are you taking too much risk, are too naive, etc?
The trick is finding the best job straight out of school. That means fewer hops. And honestly, the best job you're going to get- assuming it uses your degree- is in CA.
Again, everything is relative to your current spot. That spot is a lot more concrete when you have a job than when you don't.Other points I would like everyone to consider:
I'm not trying to use these to sway anybody, these are just simple truths. With these points in mind, is it still that poor of a decision to seek employment in NYC?
Go for it~ Trust me, there are too many opportunities in NYC waiting for you to capture. The only problem is to find a way to "sale" yourself. You must be awared of yourself and have a execlusive plan to value added.
Anyway, I am about to do the same thing. Hope you find your way to the Money World. Meet you there~
I did this shortly after the tech bubble burst and 9/11 happened. I had a friend's couch to stay on but no other financial support outside of credit cards. My family was highly critical and not supportive of my decision, which made it even more difficult. I set a deadline to find something (that was determined by when my limited cash savings and credit limits ran out). I was going to join the Army if I didn't have something within 3 months. I found a position that wasn't ideal, but it was a good start at a great firm just a few days before I was planning to go over to the recruitment station in Times Sq. It was stressful at the time, but it is the best decision I've ever made.
If you are willing to take on a lot of risk and have a back-up plan if things don't work out, then do it.
Back in mid-2002 they were offering signing bonuses so I knew that I could use that to pay down my debt right away. I would have probably gone to OCS in short order and been in Afghanistan within a few months. I had already done the research, spoken with some recruiters/family friends in the military when I set my timeline.
good luck if you decide to go through with it!
I don't think money is a big problem if you really want to work in New York. Why don't you borrow 10 to 20 grands from your parents. Anyway you will have a job in the future and then just pay back what it takes to chase a dream.
Latest development:
It's official, I'm moving to NYC at the end of this month! I have a free plane ticket and a free place to stay for 8 weeks! I'm networking like crazy and It's starting to pay off.
If any NYC WSO member can offer any assistance as I enter the NYC job market in a few weeks, I would love it!
Thanks for everyone's advice throughout this thread. It's about to go down boys and girls!
If your initial contacts don't work out, I'd recommend taking a look into temp staffing positions for back office work. It's not glamorous, but it can get your foot in the door. Plus, the hourly pay is very good. Just Google it to find relevant staffing firms. The idea that someone else mentioned about bar tending/bouncing is a good one, but you should expect to be getting home around 6am in NYC at some of those jobs so it will be harder to network than you might expect.
Well if this doesn't work out for you and you end up choosing to go the MBA route to break into finance, having a blog/book about this type of experience would boost your admission profile. Just saying. Might also make for an interesting read.
I'll be in New York in one week! I would love to hear some career advice as well as general tips on living cheaply in the city?
Watch out boys and girls. I'm gonna show New York how we do it on the West Coast!
What area are you going to be living in?
I'll be living outside of the City in Westchester County.
Good luck, irocktheyellow. I think it is very brave to do something like move to NYC without a job lined up. Nothing I would ever consider doing. knocks on wood (I haven't graduated from college yet.) But either way, make sure you are being aggressive in your networking, as ER tends to feel a bit more entrepreneurial within each individual desk.
Good idea man. This forum tends to downgrade ppl too quick..Sometimes it just takes so good old motivation to get it done. You may not get ur dream job but you will get your foot in the door. Ppl do make it in this industry the old fashioned way.
Hey man,
I know it's been a long time since you made this post, but I am getting ready to make a similar move to what you described here and wondered what your experience had been like doing this (since I'm guessing by now, you either did or didn't do it and what tips you'd give about what you would've done differently. My main plan is the same about moving to NYC without a job, but the main difference between our plans is that for the first year, I'll just be looking for part-time work or paid internships while I'm completing a MS in Finance at a Target (which also means that I'll have student loans to help fund my situation). Hopefully, after that I'll be able to start as an analyst at IB or maybe find some other backup alternative given that NYC has a very large and diverse finance industry.
Thanks and much appreciated.
I realize this is an old thread, but moving to another city without a job lined up or significant resources behind you (yours or family), is a very bad idea. In particular if you are fresh out of college, the time to make that move at that stage in your life is when selecting a college.
The next shot is when you have 4-6 years of solid experience and 30k or more in the bank. Numbers vary, but basically, established in your field so finding work wont be a huge problem and enough financial security to handle it.
Any updates?
I'd love to hear how the OP turned out.
Am I crazy to consider moving to SF Bay Area with no job? (Originally Posted: 01/25/2011)
..
Edited to add: The wife may have a job offer out there... hence the Bay Area specifically.
Why don't you just continue running your digital media start up ?
@SAC: I don't want to run a startup and I absolutely want to work in Finance. So the start up as a career is sort of off the table, as far as I am concerned.
Just out of curiosity, why do you prefer finance to running your own startup?
You could make the startup a success and go into a VC shop.
@DidNotSleepLastNight: I find the subject matter of Finance far more interesting. It was never my dream to run a start up, it just sort of happened (right place/right time). I have two other partners in it who would be happy to take it over. I'm proud of what I have a achieved with it, but it is time to move on.
Are you applying as an associate?
@karypto: I've applied for both (analyst/associate). When I got feedback on my resume, people were impressed by my bg until they figured out my age. Then I suspect that they would feel comfortable who someone who is 22 and right out of college, or has done a stint as a SA. Also, the MS in Finance seems to throw people off, as they are more used to MBAs for associates.
dude you are crazyyyyy...after running a successful start-up for so many years why would you ever want to take this route? I think you would find it very frustrating after so many years of calling the shots and really controlling every aspect of the business to becoming the lowest guy on the totem pole. As people suggested, I would think maybe VC would make sense, but that is still a long shot.
Just curious, is the start-up providing a comfortable living for you and your wife? or are you guys making a little and just staying alive?
@zander: making a little and just staying alive. hence, the need to move into finance.
I am a decade younger than you and definitely understand what you mean. Unfortunately, I really think the reason you are not getting interviews etc. is because of your age. SF might be a tad better because NY is all finance and thus the stereotypes can be reinforced.. if that makes any sense. The problem is your managing director might be 35 and he prefers to have a naive 22 yr old who doesn't have any life experience. Just recently I had an interview where someone 2 yrs my junior was interviewing me and asking me about my 5-yr plan. I didn't know how to respond, to that. When I was 22, I had a 5 yr plan too... and now I know for certain I won't achieve that plan.. it's silly to define your life in this way
Unfortunately i'd have to agree with papeete. I have no finance background or education. My first internship was at an investment bank as a general intern learning the business because i was just a freshman, other than that the rest of my internships have been in Media, and banking. I majored in M.I.S, most of my financial knowledge comes from my personal interest and self study i've done. But I got an offer from a B.B for the analyst class starting in July. and I just turned 22.
But don't give up trying, i'm sure you'll break in very soon. Just keep networking and being creative. Best wishes.
you see... 1man2nv's response is EXACTLY why they want a 22 yr old.
the 22 yr olds are wide-eyed and optimistic, full of hope and dreams... after life slaps you around a bit you become jaundiced.
Thanks guys. I think questions like "five year plan" are the dumbest interview questions EVER. I mean, in this economy, who has even more than a 6 month plan?
That question shouldn't be taken literally. It's there to gauge the composure level of a prospective analyst, i.e. does he/she have an idea what they want to do in life? When someone says "I have no idea", that reeks of indecision. If you're not sure about exit opps and can go to PE, stay as assoc, VC, corp dev, etc., just pick one and go with it. No one's gonna hold you to it. Point being, a guy who wants to eventually go to PE will pretty surely put in his 2 years, whereas a guy who's unsure can quit in 3 months because he doesn't feel like doing the stuff anymore.
Possibly moving to NYC with no job offer (Originally Posted: 10/13/2014)
Thanks for reading this, I need some life advice
Recent graduate from a non-target, 3.6 gpa in finance, got my Masters of Accounting as well. Currently in Georgia and unable to find any research/banking jobs (most solely recruit out of UGA/Tech). I am at the point where I am considering buying a one way ticket to NYC and staying at a friends place until I get an apartment. I have been in contact with a few recruiters who seem interested but I have to be in NYC to really do any interviewing. I am thinking about selling my car to pay for everything. Any tips? Anyone do something similar? Any input is greatly appreciated
i think this is an awful life choice and idea. A 3.6 non-target will already be very difficult almost impossible to get a banking job with that you are off-cycle now and most positions are for laterals so you are at a huge disadvantage. I would recommend getting a job in atlanta or charlotte for a year and apply from there. You already have a 5 month gap in your resume assuming you graduated in the spring which isnt good so you really just need to fill that and not sell your belonging with no opportunities
I have been working albeit its not a finance role but its not a huge gap. thanks for the input
Why the fuck are all you kids going straight into graduate school without any work experience?
Life advice? Consider the facts, UGA and Tech are regional targets for Atlanta, which is a major metropolis. But you've been so focused on NYC that you're considering moving there to MAYBE interview somewhere? I'm curious as to how your internships haven't led to a full time offer. Your focus should be on Atlanta and leveraging your networks to land a gig there.
Masters in accounting, leads to accounting, not investment banking or equity research (not that it can't). What jobs have you been pursuing and networking for, because if they are consulting, investment banking and equity research you've probably been barking up the wrong tree.
Moving to NYC without an offer or significant savings is foolish. Recruiting isn't just kicking off so your move would be very poorly timed. Unless a recruiter contacts YOU, I wouldn't put any money on their ability to land you a job when you have no experience and are under the gun so to speak.
Sidebar: In my mind, I'd much rather spend the winter and spring in Georgia where those southern girls gon' take care of ya, rather than move north as the snow is coming.
As far as grad school is concerned, I thought I would go the Big 4 route, ended up hating everything about it but decided it was best to finish the degree out (was spring of 4th year when I figured out I hated it) and pursue finance roles. For NYC, I have been networking to an extent and also have a few friends in research but its hard when I live so far away which is why I am considering it. My other option is to continue to get something locally and pass CFA level 1 in June. Thanks for the input
also that is not true if a company is interested in you they will fly you out, i feel like you have some false ideas/hope with what some of these recruiters are saying
I'm looking at boutiques because I frankly don't have the experience or connections for the bigger companies. A few reached out to me and told me that they would interview me if I was in NYC but it would be over a couple weeks so they can accommodate their schedules.
agreed... if selling your car is your primary source of cash to live on, moving to NYC is not the best thing to do right now...if I were you I would stay put and try to leverage my local network. In the meantime, find something to do (even if it is unpaid) at a local startup/non profit that kind-of aligns with your goals. Basically, try to minimize the gap on your resume and as @"ArcherVice" said "get some work experience". You might find that you would be in a good position to land an entry level role at a good company if you suck it up for a few months. That is, of course, if you keep on networking & preparing for interviews along with your part-time/unpaid work.
I would talk to a recruiter about this; the ones who "seem" interested. With your resume, do they think you are close to getting interviews? If they felt that they could get you in front of some opportunities if you were local, then it might be a good gamble. I wouldn't recommend doing this unless there's some very strong interest.
With all hiring cycles, there's a big push, then all goes quiet. How long could you afford to live in NYC? What happens when your leads dry up, will you sit on a couch all day looking for job postings? What's the backup plan?
Have you exhausted all opportunities via networking? Does your school have a good finance alumn network in NYC?
I think you might have as much luck telling the recuiters you will be traveling to NYC for a week in November, see if they can drum anything up for you.
My school has much better alumni network in NYC than anything in Atlanta or close to Atlanta which is one of the reasons I am considering this. A lot of people call me interested but once they hear I am in Atlanta they pretty much move on. I think you are right about traveling for a week or so, I may end up doing that instead. I am just pretty frustrated at this point
I agree, dumb idea. do corporate finance with coca cola or one of the other companies headquartered in Atlanta. beyond that, set up info interviews or interviews w/recruiters all in a 1-2 week period in NYC on your own dime. no need to move there with no job, unless you've got a sick car 100% of your money will be blown just when you move in. first, you have to pay first and last month's rent up front, then moving expenses and so forth based on a hunch? I love the ambition but think practically. it'd be much better for your wallet to get something (anything) in ATL instead of going to NYC unemployed.
also, for whatever it's worth, have a buddy who was a non target with a similar GPA and a MSA, worked at a EB for a few years now does PE in NYC. it takes hustle but can be done.
Thanks for the advice. Honestly I was leaning towards not doing it and everyone here confirmed my worries. There isn't much in Atlanta which is why I have been struggling but hopefully something comes up. Do you know how to get into corporate finance? I tried with Coke and it didn't really go anywhere
I am a non-target (probably much worse than your school) and began working for a BB 2 year after grad so it is possible I just think that you are going about it the wrong way. If youve networked that week plan a week trip to NYC and plan your interviews during then, it makes much more sense than the method youre talking about. Also I dont think the CFA level 1 will get you better opportunities, most dont even consider it until after passing level 2
Wow how did you do that? Persistent networking?
luck, i didnt network at all just happen to find a second job who was desperate to hire someone which happened to be a target for BB ad others, definitely not the ideal model. I also have a damn sexy resume (which Ive been told)
haha well I hope I get lucky
As others have said, plan an NYC trip for a week and jam as many interviews in there as possible. Maybe keep in mind a trip a couple of weeks after that especially if you have friends who are willing to let you crash on their couch until you find a place. I doubt they'd mind if you stayed for a week or two. Don't sell your car. Find the cheapest plane tix you can and charge them or ask to borrow someone's miles.
I also think you're not exhausting what's available in ATL and definitely not Charlotte. There's a decent amount of finance opportunity in Charlotte and that's somewhere you can drive to from Georgia for the day.
I haven't looked at Charlotte at all to be honest. I'm going to look up stuff on linked in for sure. I am just so frustrated at this point
Consider Dallas IBD too. Atlanta -- Dallas -- Houston seem to be the biggest Southern players.
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