What is too old to be an investment banking analyst?
If someone had 3-6 years work experience and was in mid to late 20's, but WAS willing to be an investment banking analyst. Would any banks consider them? If so, which ones?
If someone had 3-6 years work experience and was in mid to late 20's, but WAS willing to be an investment banking analyst. Would any banks consider them? If so, which ones?
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Boutiques. Unless you've been doing something out of the ordinary for your work experience, you'll need to look at places with less structured processes.
No BB or EB is going to take you 3-6 years out of college, if only because they have no idea how to evaluate you compared to rest of the talent pool. It is so much more likely that you would get into a decent enough MBA program and break in from there.
Isn't it harder to break into PE though? I think I'd rather just go the analyst route even if more experienced
That may be true, but I don't have any knowledge of PE recruiting as an IB Associate or how common it is.
But I'm telling you, it is highly highly unlikely that you'll find success in the analyst recruiting pipeline. Don't take my word for it- talk to someone in your network or find a banker and ask them. Their response will be no, unless there are extraordinary circumstances in your background.
Yes of course. There are 3 analysts in my group alone that started as first years when they were near-30. Good luck!
Is this at an EB/BB or a MM/boutique?
I've networked with regional boutiques enough to know that you could even go on as an associate, and without an MBA. Look for lean shops with 8-15 guys, and like BluePilotG4 said, less structure. I can't speak from experience here, but it sounds like it's possible to lateral to a top MM after a year at a regional boutique. Although you may need an MBA at that point. Hope this helps!
i know a few who've gone down that route and will be trying to do the same myself i think it depends on your specific situation...many that I know were a few years behind their coworkers because they did some sort of atypical masters degree and then switched careers I think you just really need to prove that even though you're in your late 20's, you have no problem grinding out the long hours and working like a 22yr old its possible at BB's, but much easier at boutiques
If you're trying for a lateral, if you are coming from a fairly similar background and skill sets (corp dev from industry, big 4 financial advisory, etc), it's definitely doable. The other alternative to consider is doing an MBA and joining as an associate.
If Pe is your goal: I know there's a lot of talk about PE being more accessible via analyst (and it is, no doubt), but people have moved from associate IBD roles too.
You gave corp dev as a viable route to banking, does it matter if the firm isn't that big? My firm isn't a well known company but we are owned by a Chinese conglomerate and are well capitalized/evaluate plenty of deals.
You could highlight that the firm is owned by a large Chinese conglomerate in the resume (e.g. Firm X (subsidiary of US$XXB Chinese conglomerate)) or something along those lines.
I would say the work experience and responsibilities you've had are more important. Try highlighting your deal experience, or pick transactions or prospective deals that highlight skill sets important in IB (e.g. valuation, financial modeling, presentations, research, due diligence, etc.). If you've done or seen plenty of deals, then you should definitely highlight them.
I think WSO has some sample resume templates.
If you are on the lower end of your range (3 years work and mid 20s) i think it's pretty realistic. I had a few guys in my analyst class (MM shop) who did this. I will say most did an MsF b/t their prior work experience and getting the IB job though
Yes, but will likely need semi-relevant work experience (TAS or audit for example), or have industry expertise in a specific vertical that is hiring.
Any insight on going from REPE for 2-3 yrs into Associate/Analyst IBD RE?
Interested to hear
I really don't understand why anyone would even want to do this, but yes, this should be possible. The RE skills/community have more in common with each other than IBD RE has with IB, so it should be an easier sell than other coverage areas.
That being said, you're still fighting an steep, uphill battle if you're trying to break into BB/EB. They have a recruiting process that gives them a flow of reliable, hard-working talent and it works very well. Getting them to stray from that takes their time and energy that really isn't worth it- even for the most potential rockstar analyst.
I don't think its so much about age, just more like you have too much working experience. I know first year analysts that are 32 years old, but they came from other countries and just graduated from undergraduate. A bank won't know where to place you because you are overqualified for an entry level job, but you don't have the background for an associate position. Best bet is B school.
Age doesn't matter, had a few Analysts in my shop who were 27-28, and others who were 22-23, starting out. In some cases, I think working elsewhere before IB is really useful, it will get you used to the working environment. I know it would've benefited me anyway.
Depends on where you live. Some countries go through military training first, so their analysts are older like 25-27. I guess you're referring to america, so I can't help you there. But in my country, there are one or two analysts that I've seen at a MM.
Too old to be an analyst? (Originally Posted: 06/05/2015)
I'm currently 25, work as a commercial credit analyst on a middle market commercial retail/bank. The next step forward on my current position is to become a loan officer which is something I'm really not interested in doing. The real reason why I took the job was to get some "real finance experience".
What I really want to do as most people here is IBD. However, I went to a non-target and my main connection to a middle market IB bank is basically somewhat of a dead link. I will be turning 26 in September which lately gets me thinking that if I don't land anything by the end of this year's recruiting cycle I might as well give up for now and try again when I go for my MBA in about two years or so for an associate position.
I'm mostly targeting small boutiques and a few middle market banks so far I had only landed one interview with a micro boutique but got cut on the first round. So should I stop looking for an IB analyst position if I don't land anything by the end of this year? is my age rationing correct or just plain ignorant? Has anyone had a similar situation as mine? All insight welcomed thanks in advance.
Probably not too old. One of the analysts in my BB group started banking at 25 or 26. While it's unusual, it's certainly not impossible.
I don't know about BB groups, but I met a few who were 28 and 30 at boutiques.
i would say the MBA is a better launching point for you at this point as long as you get into a top program. Thought to lateral in right now as a 1st year analyst...
Does age matter for FT Analysts in Investment Banking in Canada? (Originally Posted: 07/20/2011)
Hey Guys,
I am currently in Calgary, Canada, going into my last year in a non-target. I am 25 right now and am sort of going full time and part time because I have to keep a job. I am wondering if it matters that I am not going to be the typical straight from high-school to university to 1st year analyst candidate. I am going to start a finance club with an accompanied blog, I have a 3.8 current gpa and will try to move it to 3.9 by graduation. I have a little bit of retail banking experience too. Also I plan to network as much as humanly possible.
Please let me know what do you guys think of my situation.
Any help will be greatly appreciated!
If you can make some solid connections through networking and maybe some information interviews, you should be ok. Take advantage of any BB recruiting that happens at your school even if it isn't your desired firm or work location. Seems as though there is a fair bit of IBD/ER expansion happening out west - hopefully you can capitalize on it. Also, make sure your resume is in good shape. I'm from a Canadian non-target as well and so many people are clueless about creating a resume that it's an easy way to distinguish yourself to employers right off the bat. Best of luck!
Thank you very much for the advise, I will definitely make sure I spend considerable time in making a quality resume.
I also noticed that there is quite a bit of positions offered on the Calgary CFA Society's website. That also shows that in Western Canada things are a little different, they don't mind the CFA and actually a lot of the positions mention the CA.
Anyway, good luck to you too!
If I graduate my undergrad is it still feasible to pursue IB analyst role at the age of 30? (Originally Posted: 06/01/2011)
Sorry if this topic's done to death because although I've seen similar questions I haven't seen one pertaining to my question specifically. The other topic questions were more so regarding people with years of work experience making a switch or being out of college for years now trying to get in. Would I be viewed as a fresh graduate out of college seeking a position as an analyst just like the traditional 22-23 year old? Or would graduating at a non-traditional age and trying to break in at this age just be a little too late to go for an analyst role?
No, go have kids or something your old.
what school, and why so old?
what school, and why so old?
I have seen an analyst in that age range, so it's doable but pretty rare - I'de say it's because most 30 year olds dont want to put up with the shit that an analyst has to go through.
..
I would assume if you look young then nobody would know the difference right?
I agree, plus you're not required to tell anyone in your group how old you are. People will just assume you're 22-23, then again, this is only if you look young.
Thank you for all the great feedback. I do always get told I look really young. I actually get carded still at the movies and bouncers do double takes on the id checks at the bars. I guess there's validity on the stereotype that Asians look younger than their age.
Why the hell would anyone want to be an analyst at age 30? By that age you can get the same or more money while working 2x less.
dude get married and have kids....way too old. why do you want to do ibanking at 30?
^By them time you are 30, and worked decently hard since you were 22, you should be at least VP at a F500. By the time you are 30 you have 8 years of w/e industry exp under your belt, you can go VC, work at a startup, etc etc.
He is just graduating at 30.
How would anyone even find out that you're 30? As far as I know it's technically illegal to ask for your age.
I really don't think anyone will know or can really find out. As long as you put your resume together as if you came out of high school and then into university and are now looking for your first real gig, you should have no problem. Also, don't listen to all the by 30 you should be......it is all bullshit; it may be the way a lot of people go about their finance career but not everyone. Best of luck and keep us posted.
Life is not a video game
I think there was another thread where a guy was 35 and he just got a SA gig at a MM IB shop... OP, you may want to reach out to that guy and have a chat with him.
Dude, you are a grown adult with hopefully a life. The last thing you want is to get shit on for something pointless.
the richest guy i know started his career at 30. but he isn't in finance and had an engineering masters from a top school.
Thank you all once again for your advice and feedback. It's truly appreciated.
I have no idea. I'll ask when I see him again.
Starting a career in Investment Banking at age 30? (Originally Posted: 11/22/2016)
I am transitioning out of Swimming Pool Construction and Management into Finance. What are the first things i should do? Assocations, Internships, etc? How do i land that first internship with no experience at my age when most of the interns will be 19?
Dive straight into the deep end.
What does that mean?
underrated reply
Go to school (again).
Am I too old to break into Investment Banking ? (Originally Posted: 01/10/2014)
Hi, Because of my "weird" path and my age, I would like to know your opinion concerning my chances to get into IB.
I am 26 years old, i used to study medicine before but was kicked out because I couldn't attend the courses due to a sickness and to money issues... After solving all theses issues I decided start over again and I went to economics ( where i look like a grandpa compare to other classmates :) )
I am now a penultimate year student in economics from a average university in UK with an expected second-class honours or upper second class ( if i don't screw up). I got an internship in a real estate investment firms last summer.
My long term goal would be to end up in a PE or venture firm specialized in pharma.
My opinion is that investment banks look for student with a straight path and will not even look at a profile like mine. Do you agree ?
If yes, do you think i could still, without IB experiences expect a career in PE if i do a master in Finance in a top tiers university?
Thank you very much for your honest answers
Bo
As far as I know to get into a decent MSF program, you will need at least a 2.1 degree. As for IBanks not taking people who don't have straight paths, I think this isn't necessarily correct. There are several people from liberal arts backgrounds and such who have managed to break in, but you need a good story and great grades for this as far as I know, and attending a well reknowned school helps too. In short, nothing is impossible, but expect this to be a hard slog.
Too old for IBD, corporate finance or capital markers in general? (Originally Posted: 11/12/2012)
Hey folks,
I was wondering, is there any "age restriction" when applying for a position in IBD or any other corporate finance job at a BB or big 4?
I've read somewhere that Banks would rather recruit freshly minted undergrads for an analyst position rather than someone who, let say had 10 yrs experience in AM or retail finance.
Let say I finished my MBA at 28-29 and never had any solid relevant work experience in corporate finance or in the IBD. Would employers, preferably BB, still be interested in hiring me for an associate position (or even analyst)?
Yes, you can start in IBD after finishing a MBA at 28-29. The bigger issue is that you need to come from a top MBA program to do so, which may not be achievable if you've been working in retail banking.
I would also be interested in knowing about this. My potential path would look similar. Over 700 GMAT but in back office right now.
No not too old. But might need better attention to detail to be in capital markers.
For an analyst position you have it correct. However, at 28/29 years old you more than likely wouldn't be competing for an analyst position unless you did 5 years in the military before starting undergrad or something.
But would a bank hire someone out of MBA without any prior IBD experience for an associate position? This is what baffles me....
Entering IB a Little Older (Originally Posted: 09/25/2017)
Backstory of scenario:
I will be finishing undergrad and working in corporate strategy. After a few years I could go for an MBA to level up/ change paths completely. Given that strategy work doesn't involve deal experience, if I were to try to make it into IB, I likely would be starting as an analyst.
Couple of questions:
Would it be worthwhile trying to transition to IB at 26- 28 post MBA for an analyst position, or has that career path come and gone?
Are there many post- MBA analysts out there, or is the class almost exclusively made up of undergrads?
Just looking for insights from a career progression point of view -- would IB be worthwhile, or would it be better to focus elsewhere where my experience is more directly applicable?
There is no such thing as a post-MBA analyst- you would be entering as an associate. If you are trying to do some research into the industry, I would start with the IB, PE, and CF Hall of Fame threads on WSO, reading every thread linked to in them. Also, check out Mergers & Inquisitions' blog.
Thank you so much!
Too old for IB? (Originally Posted: 12/31/2015)
Hi, I am european 23 to become 27 once finished MA in finance and investments in RSM. Would be my age a problem to enter in IB? Also as I am afraid if RSM will get me in London? or IB just pick a really few percentage from RSM
Once I am in London or directly as a RSM I'll be able to go to New York IB or american prefer graduates from American Ivy League universities?
Nobody in Europe will care about your age, RSM is not the top but you can get into IB from it.
Regarding recruitment for BBs in the USA I think they prefer graduates from USA universities or people with the USA citizenship/Visa, but someone can tell you more on this point.
It's a tough one to answer. I'm going to be 32 by the time I finish with B-School and apply for Associate positions in M&A (also in Europe). From what I've read, age is less of an issue on continental Europe as students tend to graduate a little later and have less structured career paths than, say, the U.S. Will be a Summer Analyst be possible at 26-27 here? Yes, but I think more than anything it depends on whether you are willing to potentially have people above you who are younger (I personally would have an issue with a 24-year old shouting at me).
Not to take from the OP's original question, but at what age is considered too old for IB analysts in the U.S. with just an undergraduate degree, assuming they have some finance experience.
The right question to ask would be, whether your still genuinely interested in IB when the opportunity arises. If you are, and you can get an IB gig, age shouldn't matter. Everyone has their own paths in life. Why bother with comparing.. If you're too conscious of this.. IB is prob not the gig for you.
Age in EMEA is irrelevant. Most analysts start around 24-27. Especially since almost everyone comes with a master's degree in hand and most don't return to university for an MBA. Unlike in US, where analysts consider business school after 2-3 years as an Analyst.
Is IBD an option for a newbie in 40s? (Originally Posted: 05/29/2008)
Has anyone on this site been in my shoes? I have been a commercial banker for 10 years (business development and workout) after starting career as an accountant and financial analyst for several years, all in financial firms.
I have an MBA in finance, CPA (inactive), and recent Series 7. I have been thinking of getting into M&A and PE business. What would be my chances to be hired at an Associate (or higher?) level in one of the bulge bracket or the larger PE names?
Is one of the modelling training courses a good starter? I have been looking at IBI and The Analyst Exchange courses. Does anyone have an opinion on the above or have recommendations for others courses, and why? Have any of these institutions helped you with placement?
If you've been involved with Bus Dev then you should already have a good conceptual understanding of M&A. I don't see how these light modeling courses would be helpful to you. If I saw your resume and it included years of experience in BD and then a modeling course, it would only raise flags to me. If you really think you could benefit from the courses feel free to take them, but I wouldn't list them on your resume.
The fact that you have workout experience is useful in PE during distressed situations. However, to be honest at your level your primary competition on the PE side (besides those already in PE) are investment bankers who are at the MD level, and it's really not a question of whether you can do the job, but what the credentials of your counterparts are.
On the banking side, you may have a shot, although I've never seen the move done so late in the game at a large bank (I worked for a bulge with no commercial arm so maybe those with experience at JPM/BofA/Citi, etc. can chime in).
It'd be helpful to know what kind of commercial bank you were with (is it attached to an investment bank? Regional player? Do you have exposure to financial sponsors, leveraged products or syndicated finance?). Any kind of credit experience that you can tout that has a similar feel to IBD is a plus. Also, while admittedly the transistion will be an uphill battle, why not consider other halfway options? For example, many hedge funds have leveraged credit funds, distressed credit funds, etc. Many hedge funds are now so engulfed in all portions of the cap structure that there's opportunities all along the ladder that may seem "sexier" to you than being a commercial banker. A VP at a commercial bank that I know of recently made a switch to a large HF/PE's credit fund that works primarily with 2nd lien and senior unsecured credits. Not exactly M&A or PE, but certainly a step in that direction. The pay happens to be significantly better, too.
great post
My biggest challenges are my lack of network in the IBD/HF/PE world and no prior exposure to financial sponsors, leverage or syndicated finance.
My thinking to take one of the modelling courses is two fold:
1) Gain formal modelling training, particularly for lbo models (never had it before). However, I do not know how close these training models will be to real life scenarios and how complex the depiction will be.
2) Utilize the trainers to network within the industry. Again, not sure what are their placement records and how successful this approach can be.
In addition, I have worked for a large financial institution with a BB IB (I was not located on the NYC). I have also worked for a large regional bank, off the Street. Both of these banks are in the top 10 US banks and recently did not have to cut their dividends or had a need to raise new capital.
My feeling is that the training courses are not going to be that useful. To do an analyst's or associate's job, you really need to be able to sit down in front of a model and understand it within a few hours (even if you have never seen one of its kind before). If you don't already have the Excel skills to do that, no amount of LBO training courses are going to get you there.
But most of the people who frequent this forum are 1-5 years out of undergrad. Maybe a user like Ghengis Khan can better address your question. You might also want to chat with your peers at investment banks, hedge funds, or private equity groups if you know any. If you don't, you could always speak to a recruiter.
i recently met with an associate at a BB with a commercial arm who worked in commercial for some years and then got hired as an associate in the ibanking division, so im guessing its possible
I think good points have been made here, but from what I've seen it's quite difficult to move into a bulge bracket or large PE role coming from a non-traditional background (e.g. you spent a good part of your life doing something besides banking/PE).
For someone with your level of work experience, a modeling course is not going to be helpful, either in terms of getting the job or understanding it. Your time/money would be better spent going after actual positions at places that better suit your experience.
Banks are currently not hiring (well, a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point)... it's pretty much a bloodbath all over, and it would be very difficult to switch at a late stage in your life even if the market were better.
I would suggest the better approach is to go for smaller PEs/HFs that would appreciate your experience rather than aiming for the top right away. If you have no exposure to leverage or anything that may be difficult, but it's a lot more viable than going for a BB, given the stage you're at.
In terms of the lack of network, I would stretch and go through all your existing contacts and see what you can find - I'm sure there at least a few who deal with PE/HF types. Also consider your alumni network, even though you're far removed from school don't discount that.
The only I-banks that may be interested in you are small (really small) boutiques. Your only real chance is to do some type of leveraged finance at a hedge fund or private equity fund.
I wouldn't even waste my time contacting I-banks, regardless of whether you take a modeling course. One potential is to pursue something at a location that no sane person would consider - Dubai, India, etc. Their standards are probably lower.
btw, you may be surprised to know that many I-bankers look at commercial banking as a sweet deal, regardless of the smaller paycheck. Less hours, going golfing with clients, less time sitting in front of a computer. A buddy of mine golfs about 45 times a summer with clients and has his country club membership paid by the bank. Not bad at all.
"One potential is to pursue something at a location that no sane person would consider - Dubai, India, etc. Their standards are probably lower."
Care to explain where this is even coming from? No sane person?... Be it that Mumbai maybe be a bit less conventional for now than Dubai, I don't think its a totally irrational location with low standards.
haha...Dubai pays as well as NY with more perks
"One potential is to pursue something at a location that no sane person would consider - Dubai, India, etc. Their standards are probably lower."
What the hell are you talking about?
There have been some really constructive views and comments from some people and I want to thank them for it. However, now we are veering off the path a bit.
Can we now get back to the topic under discussion. I would really like to hear from others who have some real opinions and experiences that I can benefit from.
I'm sure that Dubai pays well. But, I repeat, no sane anglophile would go there.
Dubai, I can understand. Civil liberties issues there.
But why Mumbai? I thought that's where everyone wants to be. Along with Shanghai and Hong Kong...
Love the folks spouting stereotypical put-downs about the Arab world. 'No sane anglophile'? Dubai is full of people from the UK and Australia, so there's that ridiculous comment done with. At the higher levels, they pay as well as BB's abroad.
You think that graduates from prominent universities are chasing I-banking jobs in Mumbai, India? I suppose anything is possible.
Now Shanghai and Hong Kong are great possibilities, but you generally have to speak Mandarin or some other Chinese language.
btw, I speculated that i-banking employment is easier to obtain in Dubai because I constantly see positions advertised.
i know some pe professionals antsing to get into india. ditto for folks trying to lateral into the mumbai office. that said, many of them are indian, maybe they just want to go home...
Was just in India a few months ago. Would have to say that it is certainly not somewhere I would ever want to live.
I would love to work in Dubai...
At the end of the day, everyone wants to go back home. Americans don't love working in India, and Indians don't love working in America (actually I'm probably wrong there), as I know some indians willing to donate a kidney just to come and work here but I can see why bankerchic wouldn't want to live there.
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