Not that anybody should be surprised, but the strongest graduates at Ivy League schools are still being syphoned off to finance and consulting. The reasons? Huge college loans to pay back. Peer pressure at top schools. Nice compensation. Hell, even Rhodes scholars are looking for the Benjamins. And then people wonder why America isn't a competitive nation anymore...
| +106 | At what point should you give up? | 56 | 8h | |
| +81 | Shafted for SA 2025 Recruitment. Next steps? | 31 | 2d | |
| +37 | I am lost on the next step - Need Advice | 8 | 2d | |
| +37 | Recruiting while unemployed | 16 | 6h | |
| +29 | Tips for: LSE MSc Finance-->IBD SA. Should I go for a third internship in M&A?? | 7 | 5d | |
| +23 | To late for me? | 12 | 4d | |
| +22 | SF vs NY IB Stint | 10 | 1d | |
| +22 | Incoming freshmen at bocconi - SA 2025 recruiting | 15 | 5s | |
| +22 | How to get VP or higher role in IB from MBA | 12 | 4d | |
| Is networking still a thing for Western Europe and the UK? | 12 | 6d |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
"And then people wonder why America isn't a competitive nation anymore..." yes... those people should be making plastic happy meal toys in a factory instead. They should produce something tangible!
No, they should be running the factories, innovating and making them more efficient so we can be competitive with other countries who send their best and brightest to be the captains of industry. They should be starting up companies to meet the needs of the American people. They should be inventing the next technological breakthroughs. They should be re-designing our broken educational system. Instead they're pushing money around.
Are you even related to anyone who works in a factory? There is a reason why financial services is much more appealing than being a factory supervisor, and I am not even thinking about prestige.
Let's take this a step further......
Say the best and brightest do run and innovate large factories. Innovation in a factory = removing waste, removing waste=more automation, more automation=less need for unskilled factory workers. Congratulations you now increased our unemployment rate and hippies are now occupying the rust belt because you eliminated unskilled workers.
i'm sick of this discussion.
So redninja, as someone at one of these prestigious institutions I assume you're going to go run a shoe factory and shun high finance...
Redninja - I hate to say it, but you're coming across as a bit hypocritical.
Much better than doing boring nonsense at some over primped investment bank. A lot of my fellow engineers went to work in finance, of course, but I truly believe that America would be much better if those kids went to do something that is actually productive. Mind you, I actually worked at GS for a summer and couldn't believe that smart people were being recruited to do nothing but fuck with excel all day.
Lol@a HBS student who will go into MBB consulting, bemoaning the fact that the nation's brightest are heading into finance rather than doing something "noble" at a shoe factory.
So Red, what are doing post graduation? MBB?
Damn. Strong backfire, redninja.
You're in a pickle!
Umm no you are a hypocrite in every sense of the word. So what you are just the HBS genius who deserves to be in consulting and everyone else trying to get in banking/consulting doesn't make the cut? Stop repeating trite arguments.
.
lol @ the article being called "Best and Brightest College Grads Head for Wall Street" and bringing consulting into the mix. Going into finance/Wall Street is a lot more emblematic of a brain drain than going into consulting IMO. Redninja mentioned a need for the US to incentivize college grads to become captains of industry, and guess where many current captains of industry started out? Consulting. Finance on the other hand...
Agreed.
Well, lets see, I said something that wasn't that controversial and have been hit by at least 4 monkey shits in this thread. On top of that, I've had like 10 people unite against me not because of the point I brought up, but because of something that's entirely personal. I'm proud of the fact that I was able to get offers at MBB, but as everyone here knows, there was a LOT of luck involved in that process and many people who deserve to work in consulting get shut out every year. That doesn't make me unqualified to have an opinion about the general trajectory of the US economy and what the drivers are.
Despite the fact that I'm going into consulting, I DO believe that one of the reasons America is becoming less competitive as a country is because a lot of undergrads that would otherwise be working in general management, technology, engineering, education, entrepreneurship, medicine, etc end up in finance. As a nation, we do need SOME people in finance, and SOME people should definitely be in finance, but maybe not this many. I think it makes for an interesting debate because there are valid points on the other side, but calling me out for being a consultant isn't one of them.
I don't disagree that the article is condescending in nature, but I'm having a hard time pulling out even a quote from the article that's truly offensive or false. This article isn't about the students whose aspirations when they entered college are to go work on Wall Street whose ambitions you claim are diminished. It's about the students who went into college with some other dream, or without a clear path, and ended up being syphoned into finance by the end of their senior year. It's saying that the US is less competitive because too many of THOSE students, the ones who haven't been dreaming of IBD and PE, the ones who could have ended up somewhere else but got sucked into banking, are now working in Finance.
In response to the second part you brought up - and this is just my opinion - often consultants really do add no value and are just moving around charts on a slide that will go into the appendix of a deck that nobody will ever read. Sometimes consultants add tremendous value and help turn companies around, but that's not always the case. Similarly, the article I quoted talks about the good side of finance - it mentions how finance can "help people save for retirement, build their own wealth and be able to support themselves." But there's a dark side to finance as well. There's a dark side to everything - even good programs like Teach for America or Doctors Without Borders are liable to criticism. The criticism makes things stronger.
That said, you're right, I don't have any "practical solutions." I'm just saying it's a problem that exists and is worth talking about. If that's boring to you, alright, I can understand that.
First of all:
Perhaps we were off base with the personal attacks, which frankly contribute little to the discussion.
The problem I have with your post is two-fold:
1) If you have no will to change the way things are (or worse, perpetuating the status quo yourself), it is hard to take your criticism seriously. Propose some practical solutions and maybe people will be more willing to talk. Many of us have worked hard/are working hard to land a position in banking or consulting. The article you posted is a bit condescending and diminishes the aspirations of many on this site. I'm sure you get annoyed when people talk about how consultants add no value, tell companies what they already know, and produce pretty PowerPoints of little substance. Having interviewed with MBB, I have a lot of respect for the work you guys do and realize it is not all that black and white.
2) The notion that the "best and brightest" from prestigious institutions somehow all have these great ideas to change the world is not very compelling. The reality is great ideas are hard to come by and even harder to execute.
That being said, I agree that not all of us need to be bankers or consultants nor should we all be entrepreneurs. I'm all for people pursuing careers that utilize their competitive advantages. If people were provided with the right incentives, I'm sure more people would be in the areas that you believe are truly progressing society. I have no clue how to do this, but would definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts.
in before shit storm....oh wait
Not smart enough for tech, engineering or medicine.
Have low BS tolerance and am thus not patient enough for general management or education.
Not creative enough for entrepreneurship.
Finance it is.
More or less this. Not enough personal interest for engineering / medicine, would likely be a jerkoff teacher to delinquent or slow students, and I don't have an idea I'm passionate about to throw caution to the wind and do my own thing.
.
Sint ut voluptates sunt maiores reiciendis quis. Animi totam eligendi doloribus aut qui impedit. Non dolorum deserunt sunt accusamus aspernatur.
Repellendus rerum voluptas quia quo. Amet dolore quibusdam qui fugiat. Tenetur eum ducimus ipsum et corporis numquam. Sed id necessitatibus odio modi qui ut id. Quidem vitae dignissimos est tempore et doloremque.
Est distinctio deleniti adipisci blanditiis excepturi dolorem. Omnis ducimus corrupti minima occaecati voluptas. Itaque ducimus nesciunt voluptatem omnis sunt.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Asperiores ut nostrum eligendi sit veniam perferendis. Cumque modi delectus eius cupiditate omnis excepturi. Qui voluptate officia totam quia dolores est modi. Esse sed sint facilis quae aliquam alias quas exercitationem. Dolorem molestiae voluptas atque dicta repellendus voluptatem sed.
Praesentium sunt quidem architecto distinctio officiis nostrum. Inventore repudiandae vel porro est aut ratione nemo eius. Rem reiciendis illum nam aut. Cupiditate et maxime fugiat et.