Analyst vs Associate
1. What is typically the distinction between an Analyst and an Associate? Is it years of experience, a change in responsibility, or both? How many years? What responsibilities?
2. How does compensation general work along the Analyst to Associate path?
3. Does firm size matter?
4. How does your firm communicate the path from Analyst to Associate? Do you have written guidelines? If so how is it set out?
5. Do Associates get hired who didn’t take a normal path from an analyst? What experience/Degree(s)/Majors/GPA is required to be hired in at the Associate level?
What is an Analyst vs Associate?
Typically speaking, analyst positions are entry-level in the firm, typically for post-undergraduate while associate positions are the next tier up, requiring an MBA and have more responsibilities overall. However, it is noted that at consulting firms, associate positions are usually promoted analysts based on job-experience but both analyst and associate require college degrees.
The role of each position can vary between start-ups to corporate. Smaller firms have analysts perform a variety of tasks that take more responsibility but do not have an associate as their supervisor.
On average, it takes 2-3 years to become promoted to an associate position, but you do not need to have any previous analyst position requirements to be hired for an associate role. Once you become an associate, responsibilities and leadership roles fall on you as you become accountable for analysts' performance in the firm.
How much are Analysts and Associates Paid?
Compensation for both analysts and associates vary from firm to firm and on how long each associate has been at the firm. Below are a snapshot of industry compensations. If you would like to learn more about a specific industry click on each specific industry!
For Investing banking:
Investment Banking Industry Report
For Private Equity:
Private Equity Industry Report
For Hedge Funds:
For Consulting:
If you have any more comments regarding the differences between associate and analyst positions please comment below!
I'm trying to apply this to a very small, niche boutique, but any firm or geographic area would still be helpful.
I'm trying to apply this to a very small, niche boutique, but any firm or geographic area would still be helpful.
I'm trying to apply this to a very small, niche boutique, but any firm or geographic area would still be helpful.
associates are useless.
Who else would forward work onto you from the VPs and MDs and then spend 5 minutes checking it?
Let me say also that I despise MBA associates for the first year or two because they tend to be completely useless, however they think the degree taught them something. I would take a 1st year analyst over and out of b-school associate for a project any day of the week.
Disclaimer: I am an associate and I don't treat my analysts that well.
Well said indeed.. hahah lol same here..
Thanks PM - great explanation.
What about someone who obtained a Bachelors and Masters at the same time (say in 4-5 years) in the same major (say economics). Non-Ivy League school. Does that carry the same weight as undergrad and grad degrees obtained consecutively or with a year or two as an analyst in between?
It seems to me it wouldn't carry the same weight assuming a bunch of courses counted towards both so its a watered down version of two independent degrees. Has anyone done this or run into people who have?
Also - I've heard this about MBA. Curious though - why aren't Masters' in Finance or Econ acceptable?
A joint masters obtained in 4-5 years carries little to no weight. For someone who had good internship experience etc and has this in addition they may, in a good job market, be able to start as a second year or something of the sort, but in this market you are a first year just like anyone else. This isn't to say that it might not help non PE/HF exit opps or give you some sort of personal benefit.
I know a number of people who have non-mba masters taken immediately after college (or jointly) and none of them got a boost out of them. There is a connotation to these degrees that you just couldn't get a job out of college if it wasn't a joint program. If it was a joint program, well its a nice thing on your resume, but I would rather see good internships in banking etc.
As a point of reference, broadly speaking little to nothing learned in a program like this would be useful as a banker. Yes having seen a BS/IS/CF is a good thing, but you'll learn everything you need to be an analyst in your firms training program or within a few weeks of people pounding the information into your head 90 hours a week.
As to an MBA vs other degrees, an MBA is a Masters of Business Administration. Now, depending on the university it can mean a number of things, some have you do a bunch of case studies, some focus on class work, some are entrepreneurially focused, others corporate. All of them though provide one thing of value, a network of like minded individuals in your class and in an alumni network. This network and the training to network on your own are the important aspects of business school. In other parts of the world a Masters of Finance is viewed in exactly the same light and actually provides a much more useful technical background and focused experience that is truly good for banking. In the US, these programs are not as common and thus not as well received.
If you want to break into banking after working for a few years, get an MBA from a top school, don't bother with another degree in the US. In general, banks won't even interview non-MBA masters candidates for associate roles unless they have a lot of relevant experience.
Further Disclaimer: I've never known anyone who was an MBA associate without prior banking experience that I respected in their first 2 years on the job. I also haven't found any of the non-MBA masters kiddies to be any better, smarter, or more capable than their college grad compatriots.
agreed. a 2nd yr analyst is more valuable to the firm than an fresh mba grad.
For the first 6-12 months, all our MBA associates get 1st year analyst work. Everyone knows they're as or more useless than a 1st year analyst for a long while. The difference is the company is making a bigger commitment to them, because as PM said, the associate track is more of a career path than a 2-years-and-done style of analyst programs.
Day in the life: Analyst vs Associate (Originally Posted: 06/05/2013)
Hey guys,
Figured I would start a discussion about the differences between an IB analyst and associate. Being a sophomore in college with a math and finance degree outlook, I would say I am leaning more towards the analyst side, where numbers and analysis are used more frequently (as least I would think so). If anyone has any insight on this topic, a few posts just to widen my knowledge is of great help.
Thanks
If you're in undergrad, you'll start as an analyst. There is no leaning about it - you simply won't start as an associate.
analyst = post-undergrad associate = post-MBA
OP needs to get a clue
Just go ahead and start as an associate, best way to go about it.
Wow the formatting is weird.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/curriculum-vitae
lol beta. you think you can just walk in with a big swinging dikk and be a ceo 10k/day?
lol... 10k a day is group head money... not CEO money
Just start out as VP or MD. You get to make much more and the hours are better. In fact I don't know why more kids don't just do this instead of paying their dues.
Everytime I see a Misc reference on WSO, I feel so much less worried about not having someone that shares my interests when I start work this summer. Strong post/10, would SB again.
Associates generally have way better exit opps and deal flow.
If you have to start off as an analyst, you are probably a failure.
Jesus you guys have no balls to go after the real stuff. Why start at the bottom? Why start in the middle (MD)? Why not just start as a Pre-IPO senior partner at Goldman while your at it. Leave all of that work for the plebs who will start at the bottom.
Thread is amusing
In on SBT thread
Hey Lloyd an associate would be nice but move aside I'm here!! I got this!
Analyst Vs Associate ( Non Ibanking background) (Originally Posted: 01/27/2007)
Hi guys, I have been reading the forum for some time and read some comments from analysts on their experience with associate and their hard feelings towards those without an ibanking background (MBA -> Associate). Seemed scary. As an MBA trying to get into ibanking, i would like to know of the gripes the analysts have (in order that i don't commit them if i do get an opportunity in an associate position). Could you kindly share the same. (Please do mention whether your experience is relevant to US/Europe.)
My experience is not relevant to US/Europe... but I find it very funny associates with little experience on the models and stuff can come in and head third year analysts...
Any other objective criticism? At least in Europe a lot of analysts are promoted straightaway to associate position so there should be little disgruntlement.
Associtaes with non ib backgrounds are hired because they usually have client experience (may have been consultants or some similar bs) and they are simply too old to be analysts. You will see analysts who humbly follow what the associate says although we all know the guy is a retard and the work will have to be redone when seen fromn the eyes of a vp or director. While it might be true that analysts who get promoted should have nothing to grip about remember this: this guy's time will be juicd holding the hand of the new associate all inthe interest of teamwork...this will have been the case for his as an analysta and a newly minted associate...and yes this would apply to US/EU
in 6 months the associate will be as good as any analyst in modeling, etc, so it shouldn't be an issue for long.
in 6 months the associate will be as good as any analyst in modeling, etc, so it shouldn't be an issue for long.
I've worked in a group where associates are just glorified spell/grammar check. Generally, I found that the associate doesn't get as good as the analyst in modelling quickly - but the associate slowly figures out how the MD / VP want presentations/books etc to flow. It just gets annoying as a second / third year when the associate makes you do useless work that you know never will end up in the final product.
Summer Associates are the worst as they continually try to impress the seniors. I've seen them give legitimate analysts busy work (comps) so many times.
My experience with associates w/o banking background is as long as they are humble (know that they probably will serve more like analysts for the first 6 months), then analysts and associates will get along ok, despite a little bump here and there.
however the reality is those associates act as if they knew it all, and that's when the clash occurs. good thing is bad rep spreads quickly about those think-they=are-badass associates.
Westcoasting: Can you share what type of group it was that you worked in where the associates were glorified spelling/grammar checkers?
TIA.
There are two types of associates, but before saying anything, there are different bank environments.
Bank environments: 1. As a newly minted MBA the bank will make you work like an analyst for ~6 months or so. You don't have an analyst working for you, you're trying to figure out the models, WP/DTP, who does what, etc... After 6-months, you're allowed to become a "real" associate and you now have subordinates. I think this is best model. 2. At the MM or smaller IBs, they allow the associates to start commanding analysts immediately. If you have prior IB experience, you're probably fine. But if not, you are probably running around like a chicken w/o its head. Now this is where it breaks down (see break down)...
Break down: 1. If you're a smart guy, don't waste time and allow your analyst to operate (if they're somewhat competent), you will be fine be as an associate. You might drag the analyst down at times b/c you need to learn about a model or book and if you're taking their time up, be gracious and understanding. The analyst will be the same way if they need to learn something from you. 2. Sometimes the associate thinks they're superior to the analyst even though they have no experience. They hit the ground running, command everything, don't allow the 2nd/3rd year analyst to operate and the process becomes grueling. Sometimes the associate will learn and he'll be fine... other times, they get pushed to the wayside by analysts and life become more difficult.
ON A SIDE NOTE, I have an associate like number 2 above. Nice guy, but working with him is difficult. He doesn't understand LBO concepts, doesn't allow input and generally thinks he's in control (it's great to see him get schooled by a VP!). B/c of his inflexiblity, the analysts give him sub-par work, don't put much thought into what they're doing and view working with him as chore, not an opportunity. B/c of my attitude, I might whack 5K off my bonus, but at least I can shave time off with him, and devote it towards those who can benefit (beware - I'm a 3rd year who's bitter). haha
As a newly minted associate, you need to view those under you as an asset and let them produce. t
What kind of b schools are these kind of associates from ?
( I realise this thread is OLD but i'm guessing there are similar recent experiences here )
I have a great relationship with my associates. May have something to do with them being very competent, and about half being direct promotes.
From which b schools in europe do associates generally come from ? Other than the obvious LBS and INSEAD
Interesting to see the comment on summer associates assigning "legitimate analysts" (by this I guess he meant FTers not summer interns) work. I've never heard of that happening in our place, they'd be told to fuck off pretty quickly if they tried.
Also where I work new MBA associates would never be in charge of 3rd yr analysts and rarely in charge of 2nd years in the start at least. Guess it varies from bank to bank.
analysts vs associates....seriously, what's the difference? (Originally Posted: 09/06/2012)
first off, I've never worked in IB and ever really had it as a goal i've had no need to research the industry.
I might POSSIBLY be interested in working in a Real Estate group at one of the banks post MBA and I'm curious about the analyst/associate relationship. I've read a lot of threads, including the funny but probably true ones like this http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/how-to-deal-with-that-associate
so why do the banks have both analysts and associates? wouldn't workflow, communication, ect be more efficient with less channels to go through? I'd have to assume that the associate has more responsibility and visibility but, how exactly?
can someone breakdown the differences between the analyst role and the associate role?
Thanks
the associates manage the analysts. this normally involves checking and guiding the analysts work. this leaves the higher ups free to schmooze clients.
The difference is 2-4 years exp. and maybe an MBA.
Hang on a sec...
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=analyst+versus+associate
Analyst: disposable grunt. Literally worked to death and then tossed out, except for the best ones.
Associate: on management track. No guarantees, but it's assumed that's the goal in most places.
LMFAO, Associates are pretty disposable too dude.
In seriousness, analysts do the grunty heavy work like data entry and formatting, the associates clean it up and serve as the channel so that the vp's don't have to correct the analysts work or even instruct them on what to do - just instructing analysts on all the work to do and managing it and making sure it is all correct is a big job, and that's what the associates are for.
In sum: MD - talks to new clients and sets up pitches VP - frames the book sections and writes important strategy sections saying what the MD wants Associate - gets told by the VP what other things need to go into the book, then tells that to the analyst and then spellchecks and proofs everything (if they are doing their job right) Analyst - puts the things into the book
There's also a big difference in the career goals of each - an analyst might just be wanting to do a year or two and jump to a PE/hedge fund, b-school, or straight to associate, whereas an associate has what I consider one of the tougher options, because to get promoted to officer level is probably one of the tougher promotions to get and the exit options are more limited for IB associates.
I've always viewed the term Associate as just slightly less degrading than Analyst. You go from being someone who just analyzes things to being someone whom the firm doesn't actually mind saying is associated with the firm.
associates = glorified analysts
some analysts are called associates at some firms
The biggest problem usually comes when you have an experienced analyst working with a brand new associate. While nominally the associate is the analyst's superior, there's a huge experience gap between someone who's been in banking for 2 months vs someone who's been in banking for 1-2 years, which naturally creates tension. It gets exacerbated when the new associate thinks he's all that, and tries to influence the analyst away from what he already knows works. Not always the case that the analyst isn't wrong, but there's nothing wrong with being open minded about different ways to do things on your first deal.
In many ways, Associates have the hardest job in banking.
For one, they manage the analyst working under them on the deal / pitch. Note, however, that it isn't so much a boss - worker bee situation as it is a partnership of sorts. Yes, the Analyst will do the brunt of the analysis / PPT work. That said, the Associate will often dive deep into the actual work product and will often run with the higher level strategic aspects of a pitch book (i.e. strategic rationale, SWAT analysis type stuff.)
Additionally, the Associate is absolutely responsible for checking over a work product, even if the Analyst is great and has given it a run-through. If there are mistakes in the book, the blame will fall hardest on the Associate.
What makes the Associate role so tough is that it involves managing down and managing up. Meaning, managing expectations with VPs and MDs (not as simple as it sounds since it requires a good deal of backbone.) And you'll never be able to manage up as an Associate if your superiors don't respect your work ethic and insight.
Associates, at least ones that I've worked with, also generally were expected to have the most in-depth knowledge about a client / prospect / industry during a pitch. If any random questions come up, the Associate is expected to handle them.
Obviously this sort of thing varies from bank to bank and Associate to Associate, but this ought to give you a decent idea as to what the Associate role is like vs. the Analyst role.
Weekend Wars: Analyst vs. Associate (Originally Posted: 09/04/2010)
Labor Day cometh. Long an NYC tradition...grab a few heads, rent out a boat, cruise The Sound, find a spot to roast some burgers and dogs. Sounds great and you've been looking forward to it all August, through the sweltering heat and the endless hours glancing out from your cubicle/cage.
You think about and wait to exhale. The Crackberry is on vibrate as you cruise in your renter to the rendezvous point.
Just as your boys appear on the horizon, their cars cyphered around the grill and garbage bags of dogs...you start to feel it. At first you try and convince yourself that your last remaining semblance of youth is hormoning it's way up your thigh. You think about the days when it took only a light breeze to give you a hard on...but you know better...
It's your MD, that pitch book needs tuning and Labor Day fun will have to wait for another year. As your unemployed buddies with their cheede doodle shit eating grins roll their eyes, you bust a week U-ey and head back towards The City...
Another fun bites the dust...
So here it is fellas (and the ocassional sadomasochistic chimpette), who's screwed worse in this sort of scenario. The analyst or the associate?
Analysts: Can you recall a time when your upper underling crushed your plans for the sake of his beer/burger fun? Did you ever exact revenge? Did you smile and take it?
Associates: Care to share how you killed a younger man's hopes and dreams, pummelling his summer to a bloody pulp?
Here's a chance to vent...and pray at a shot at getting bent...
Midas wishes you may...have freedom on your Labor Day.
Enjoy it...if the Gods allow.
Just as I was reading the post, I got called in to change a slide.
in office right now
Did an hour of work from home
spending the day watching star wars on spike... then out drinking
not that i have a job on the street but i figure i'd chime in with my college activities
REALLY!?!? No college football?!?
ok ok, fair enough
got staffed on a deal on friday at 4pm..gonna be a fun labor day weekend
For some f---ing reason the f---ing AC is off right now in my f---ing office. Cheap f---ing bastards. I am f---ing dripping with f---ing sweat.
covering BRICs trading Monday all day. Apparently they have no respect for the American labor day in those countries.
I wouldn't say my weekend was f'd but I'll definitely be at my cube sat-mon. Not for more than 6 hours at a time, but still.
I wish I worked in a cublicle cranking out spread sheets... call me crazy but its the truth.
our analysts are little bitches and complain about working analyst hours... i'm glad summer is over, i'm going to fuck some analysts up this year!
Analyst or Associate? (Originally Posted: 07/09/2017)
How many years do Equity Research Analysts work before they get promoted to associates at BB these days? Thanks in advance.
Weirdly enough, I actually think in ER at entry level you start as an associate and move up to an analyst
Yes but in terms of job title they still use the analyst, associate, vp, director ladder like in ib.
3
In ER you start out as an Associate and get promoted to analyst.
2-3 years as junior analyst before promotion to associate 2-x years as associate before coverage
Analysts are more talented than associates - agree or disagree? (Originally Posted: 10/26/2006)
It seems like the general sentiment is that associates couldn't get the banking jobs right out of college in the first place and are, on the whole, not as intellectually impressive as analysts. true or false?
this was already discussed in a previous forum
i would guess false, the obvioulsy went to a top mba
If they have previous IB experience, then they're usually pretty good at what they do. If they have a good-for-nothing background (i.e. consulting), then they're the biggest dumbasses on the earth. Any decent 2nd / 3rd year could take them to school.
i'm sure you were an ace when you started in IB.
I'm sure an associate after 6 months or so is capable of doing the same things as an analyst.
But hey no first hand experience so might be wrong
There's a specific process involved in IB transactions that will be second nature to a good 2nd- or 3rd-year analyst...whilst the newly-minted MBA may have no clue what's going on (assuming he or she hasn't worked in IB before).
That said, once the proverbial learning curve is conquered (after, let's say, 6 months), I think an MBA can bring a lot to the table (which is why, even though I'm a 3rd-year and could probably get promoted next year, I still want to go to b-school). If nothing else, it brings added perspective and likely a more holistic way of thinking about the business world.
And finally, as a pre-emptive reaction to the statement above, if you are convinced you want to be a rockstar banker forever, you probably don't need the extra degree. Nowadays, the opportunity cost of going back to school (from a lucrative banking job) could be just shy of $1 million.
tire you pretty described the experience someone else on this board had...he got promoted to associate but it was a lot harder on him, then he went to get his MBA and when he came back it all came much easier to him
He got promoted from analyst??
My point (and LB's, from what I can tell) is that initially, a 3rd year analyst will certainly be ahead of an associate who had no previous experience in IB....for a while. And maybe forever if the analyst is a star (assuming he/she gets directly promoted).
But if you're talking about someone who took an associate position without having done IB before, then your comment makes total sense.
yeah he was a 3rd year analyst and got promoted to an associate. Maybe he had no people skills, dunno.
Strange.
As much as I respect an MBA degree, I'm incredulous of its power to give someone people skills who previously had none.
well like I said I am not that sure thats what the reason was...maybe he felt inadequate w/o the MBA who knows.
I'd search and help you find the guy's name...but the search function on this website sucks.
since most of you here are analysts - there is an obvious bias. since i am about to join as an associate - it takes some experience to manage the whole deal process... not saying that somebody who did a bunch of stuff during ug cannot do it. but not the regular ug out there.
What makes the salary difference between analysts & associates in IBD? (Originally Posted: 10/10/2014)
(BB IBD) The base salary for analysts = 85K and that for associates = 125K. I was wondering why there is a 40K difference? What are the big differences between the roles/responsibilities of analysts and those of associates?
Thanks!
"Only a 40k difference"
"Only a ~%50 raise"
...40k of pure disposable income (less taxes of course)
The difference is the "crest of ignorance." http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/shit-happens
In addition to the difference in the base salary, the performance and signing bonus is also very different.
One's older than the other.
40k difference because associates require more experience, as for the differences use this beautiful new tool called "google"
BUMP
should i be associate or analyst (Originally Posted: 03/02/2008)
hey guys - i am in an un usual situation...i come from an accounting bak ground having done CA (CPA in states) and managed to secure three offers at BB in m&a (all of them more or less the same in prestige) - the only difference is that since this was very unusual for them - they did not know where to place me at (i dont know ne thing abt modelling and hv never come close to working on anything deal related).
one firm offered me analyst 2 position, the other analyst 3 and one firm offered me associate - i have decided to take up the associate position, but my eventual aim is to go to HF (cant get in to top ones now as they want some one with banking exp).
however reading the posts on this forum and researching further, i ve found most ppl go in to HF after their analyst stint... should i go for the analyst roles? or would u think a couple of yrs of being an associate mite be better.
are you in Toronto?
no, in london
anyone got any thoughts?
i think you'd be an idot to turn down an associate spot to take an analyst role. they are essentially the same job when you're new to banking and you are. you are going to be learning the ropes so why not get paid more to do so? its not like you are a direct analyst to associate promote where you will be able to take on more right off the bat
Should I be an Analyst or Associate? (Originally Posted: 10/14/2009)
A little background: Liberal arts undergrad ('06), two years in corporate law (paralegal), and will be completing my MPA (not MBA) in Public Finance in May. For the past 1.5 years I've held several public sector finance internships.
Recently heard back from a BB firm (Public Finance dept.) that I am being considered for an Analyst position. Was I crazy thinking I would be considered an Associate candidate? I don't have corporate finance experience or an MBA, but several of my I-bank friends all believed a Public Finance degree and several years of work experience would bump me up to the Associate level.
Just very curious where to go from here. Will I be considered a first year Analyst? How many people do that 5 years out of college? etc.
First, keep in mind you are only 3.5 years out of college. If you had been in banking from the start you would've only just now been promoted to an associate this summer. I know any number of people with one and two year masters degrees that aren't MBAs who were all hired on as first year analysts. They didn't have experience before the degree though. You have two years of unrelated experience, an MPA and some internships. They might hire you on as an experienced analyst, say a second year.
Remember, banks don't count much if it isn't directly related to banking. There are plenty of people out there with 10 years of experience and an MBA who are just now becoming first year associates.
Basically, the only way you get hired on as an associate is to fulfill the one of following: 1. Over two years (usually three) of experience in investment banking, private equity or hedge funds 2. MBA 3. PHD in a Quant area 4. JD + experience in corporate/M&A law
You don't meet any of these, so analyst.
'Analyst' in a markets or banking sense tends to denote your level of seniority, but that's not the case in all sectors. I can't intelligently speak to public finance in particular, but there is a chance that 'analyst' for them is the role, and does not represent your seniority.
I would say you should be an associate, especially if you're interviewing for positions in public finance (in which you already have a graduate degree). Still, it could be a by-product of the times that the bank thinks they can bring you in as an analyst.
I'd take the interview and talk with the boss about it. If you advocate well, and show that you're not a total neophyte, you should be able to argue for an associate position. I mean--there are loads of associates who come out of b-school knowing precisely fuck all about markets that start as associates (I guess) because they're older than true newbies.
An aside: my boss generally doesn't like to hire b-school kids because they're less willing to get lunch/tea/coffee, and think they're owed something because they went to H/W/S.
Bump. First, thanks Power and brother for your responses. In my prep for that first interview I forgot to thank you for the input.
An update for anyone interested. I have now interviewed with three BBs and I've been considered for different roles at each of them. One only considered me a 1st year analyst, another wanted to bring me in as a 2nd/3rd year analyst, and one is considering me for associate. Most interesting part is that the bank interviewing me for the most senior role is the biggest name (top 4).
Just goes to show how different banks value experience differently and there really isn't a set procedure across the industry.
just FYI off topic:
if you do S&T for 1-2 years, can you switch into IBD as an associate or possibly a 2nd/3rd year analyst? Or will you still be starting out as a 1st year analyst?
Yes, you would start out as a 1st year analyst. What skill set do you bring in from S&T in those 1-2 years that could possibly help you surpass your IBD analyst years and go straight to associate? Trading spreads? Booking trades? Nada.
Analyst or Associate - Which to apply for? (Originally Posted: 01/25/2010)
looking to a job right now, should i apply for an analyst or associate position? also, what banks or boutiques might be hiring for individuals with some finance experience right now?
some backgrounds: graduated 08', working in a custodian bank for 1.5 years as an analyst familiar with Bloomberg, Excel and computer programming taking my CFA level II in June
could someone provide an insight as to what places to apply to or additional courses/training i might need?
Thanks for the help and/or comments!
Analyst
would it be the same as applying with ppl who are graduating this year? thanks!
If you only have an undergrad you should apply for analyst positions.
would it be better to go back to school for a Master/MBA and apply for the associate position?
You'll have to apply as an analyst. You''ll also most likely be placed as an a1 and not an a2 or a3 because lack of experience in banking.
1.5 years of experience isn't really enough for an MBA. I would just suggest network since you have work experience. You could look into a 1 year MS degree, but in your case I don't know if it would be worth the time and money.
Will I come in as an analyst or associate? (Originally Posted: 08/20/2010)
A little background:
I am a first year MBA student at a semi-target. I graduated from undergrad in 2009 and worked for one year. During that one year I worked at a tech start-up and also ran a small business that I started immediately after undergrad (generated enough pay for bills, apartment). Entrepreneurship showed promise, but not enough to continue.
A few questions
Associate.
associate. But then again, you would be competing with people who had a lot exp prior to a MBA. Kudos to you if you can get a job though.
i doubt you'll have any chances at a BB. as the previous poster said, youd be competing with ppl with alot more work experience and MBAs from targets. look for positions at MM banks and call ahead explaining your situation at every company to see whether they would place you in the summer analyst or associate group.
wow our backgrounds are pretty similar. although I'm an '08 grad & plan to apply to Bschool next year and hope to get into IB/VC as well.
More than likely you will come in as an Associate, whereas with some other masters programs you would probably be an analyst. Best of luck to you! If you dont mind sharing, what type of business did you run? also was the start-up VC funded? You can message me if you like.
Are you saying that it is technically impossible to get hired as an analyst after getting your MBA or is that just the general route?
Associate positions
No, analysts do not have MBAs - once you earn an MBA you are now targeting associate roles. Additionally, if you applied for an analyst position with an MBA, everyone would want to know what is wrong with you and why you are going for analyst positions when you should be pushing for associate positions.
Analysts do not have MBAs. Again, associates are the ones with MBAs. Analysts go to B school to become associates if they don't move on to another bank, another division, buyside, or get directly promoted. Additionally, many former bankers who attend B school are not going to B school to get into banking, and many associates out of B school do not have previous IB experience. Between BBs, MMs and boutiques, there are many opportunities for MBAs - cast a wide net and seek associate positions.
Associate or Analyst? (Originally Posted: 09/11/2010)
Hello, I have a bachelor's degree in bioscience tech. I have about 3 years experience in vaccine manufacturing; 2 years as a technician and last 6 months as a Supervisor. I'm considering consulting but unsure how my experience stacks up against other people applying at McKinsey. My question is should I apply for analyst or an associate? Associate are paid more as they have more experience but I'm not sure if I stand a chance if i apply as an Associate. Should I apply for Analyst and possibly get paid around in high $70s? Any suggestions?
Analyst
Hi,
I have had the same concern, and still do actually. I have four years of work experience, three of which in corporate law with magic circle law firm. I am hoping to get into consulting after I complete MSc course at LSE. I also wondered if I should apply for associate or analyst position. I am not sure about McKinsey, sorry, but I did contact Roland Berger, BCG and AT Kearney. Both ATK and RB said that they decide the level for which applicant is suitable on the basis of applicant's CV and overall application process. At BCG, they have somewhat different application process. Associate is a graduate entry position and is equal to analyst position at other companies. Graduate entry applicant is anyone who has undertaken or has completed formal education within two years of their application date. Hence, I'd apply for associate pursuing MSc course at the time of application, and you would apply for junior consultant position-next up in the hierarchy. BCG HR person said to me that they absolutely take into account previous work experience in whatever background and those with work experience, coming in from university, although they enter at graduate level, usually progress much faster then graduate entries with no previous work experience. I hope this helps as it might be an indication of things at McKinsey. And of course, I contacted these guys in London. I don't know if they have different practice in other countries/cities. Good luck.
5 year exp is safer for associate
I'd be concerned about the newly minted top 10 MBA's. Then again, you could apply as an associate and reapply later on for analyst positions if nothing pans out.
get an mba and then apply for associate
Analyst or Associate - Graduated with a degree in chem (Originally Posted: 03/01/2011)
Basically graduated with a degree in Chemistry undergrad semi-target. Worked for one year in real estate, now in a top 10, semi-target MBA program concentrating in Finance and Accounting.
Working part-time at boutique ib and full-time during the summer.
When I graduate next year, May 2012, should I be applying as an analyst or associate level positions, due to my lack of work experience?? Please help. Some bb have told me I am ineligible to apply for analyst roles, but am not competitive enough for associate..fml I am in limbo.
Thanks
What did you do in RE? Are we talking REPE or being an agent?
Residential Development
Associate - if you are in a top 10 MBA program then all of your peers will be applying for Associate internships and FT opportunities. You will be disadvantaged by your lack of experience but can overcome it by preparing for the interviews and networking. I've heard of banks offering 2nd year analyst positions to guys in your shoes but they also offer associate jobs to kids that went straight from undergrand to b-school (yes it happens. Typically with athletes). Dont settle for an analyst role.
btw - i am very surprised that the Career center at your top 10 MBA program didnt tell you this already.
Perhaps this is semantic but what "top 10" (whatever top 10 means...i would say programs ranked 8-15ish are basically the same) program is a semi-target? I'm at a program in that range and every bank recruits on campus.
They will only consider you as an associate and I'd echo the sentiment above regarding your career services office. Your best bet is to try for a spot with one of the banks who return with full-time spots in the fall.
Your story serves as a prime example of the dangers of going to business school with limited experience.
Associate...like everyone else you are graduating with.
Regards
Analyst should be last resort.
Analyst vs Associate Training (Originally Posted: 06/30/2011)
How does analyst training compare to associate training, content wise?
They are basically the same. Associate training may have an extra lesson on "how to manage analysts" or something like that but the accounting and finance content is very similar.
If you were previously an analyst, associate training is literally a vacation.
Thanks. I was never an analyst, but as I try to make a lateral post-MBA move into middle market M&A I'm getting dinged b/c I don't have the bulge bracket IB experience. One that I really like has told me that they like me, but don't know if they can wait for me to "come up the curve." They have analyst training but not associate training, so I was thinking about volunteering to go to their analyst training since I was guessing that the two are probably similar. Sounds like you are confirming my hypothesis.
Analyst or Associate - Just finished 1st or 2nd year in finance (Originally Posted: 07/05/2011)
I've been working at GTS in Citi for 4+ years but want to move into S&T. Am just finished 1st year of two year MSc Finance and am planning on applying to graduate programs this Autumn in London. Should I apply at analyst or associate level?
Moving from GTS to S&T is going to be difficuly enough and I know associate positions are generally for MBAs and my experience isn't in sales and trading but wanted to give myself the best possible chance to not only get a job but at the best possible level.
Are there different rules for different firms? Any comments appreciated
What's GTS?
Global Transaction Services....I would say go for the Associate level.
Given your work experience (and most likely age) coupled with an advanced degree (even though it's not the typical MBA), I think you can go for associate positions. That said, if through your networking you are getting pushback that you really need to the MBA to make be competitive for associate positions, then just adjust your application strategy and move to applying for analyst positions.
I think you can start your application process with associate positions, and then adjust accordingly if necessary - remember, just as you might not get calls for associate positions if you are underqualified, so too will you not get calls for analyst positions if you are too old and too qualified.
Analyst or Associate - Approaching my last year in law school (Originally Posted: 07/07/2011)
I'm approaching my last year in law school and will be applying for FT BB positions, and am wondering whether I should apply as an analyst or an associate. My only work experience is a couple of years of being a freelance musician (aside from my internships elsewhere). I'm aware that GS invites applicants from my school for summer associates but they clearly state they want someone with a few years of work experience (along with knowledge of finance of course). While I don't want to short change myself, I understand that associates usually have some prior business experience and that I simply have not paid my dues. Thoughts?
i've seen people in your position do both, but keep in mind associates positions are much harder to get.
If you apply for an associate position, would they ever offer to "relegate" you to analyst hiring? Again, personally I'm fine starting at the bottom. I made a 180 to finance just last summer when I worked inhouse at a firm. Always liked investing but never considered it as a career until I was physically there.
Varies firm to firm what they would consider you for. Personally, I think you should shoot for Associate. I think you can get something in that space, especially if you have really good people skills (i.e. aren't diehard about doing ibanking but are more open to other areas of the BB firms).
Definitely associate. Hope you learned alot about bankruptcy.
I appreciate all the responses. Do you think its wise to hit up HR at each firm and ask what they think?
A girl I went to b-school was straight out of undergrad. She somehow landed a summer job at ML and in turn a job at BofA. She couldn't hack it and quit after a few months. People there expected her to perform at a certain level and since it was her first job ever, she was just overwhelemed.
Think she is now in some back office or cap markets position at Lazard now after taking a 9 month turn at corp finance at a small business.
Apply for Analyst or Associate Roles? (Originally Posted: 09/12/2011)
Hello,
I have 3 years of work exp in IT and then moved on to do my Masters (not MBA)
I am trying to position myself for the ongoing grad recruitment. Should i apply for Analyst role or Associate? I have only 6 months SA internship exp (relevant to IB)
Analyst.
Is there any age limit for applying to Analyst program? How are things looked at in London
Analyst is much flexible and good for your resume. This can open more opportunities in the future.
Business school as associate or analyst (Originally Posted: 06/15/2012)
Hi All,
A long time reader on this forum but i'm just looking for a little bit of advice if possible.
I have graduated with a degree in Accounting and have started working in the oil and gas industry as an accountant. My plan is in the future to move towards IB. I'm currently 23 years old and have been working for just under a year. I have 3 scenarios is mind where I can move into IB:
Continue to work until I'm 26 (3 years experience) and apply for a MBA in a top ten school. (LBS, Harvard etc)
After 2-3 years of working apply as an anayst in IB. After 1-2 years of analyst experience do an MBA and move up to associate. The reason of applying for an analyst for a short term is to gain experience.
Continue to work but in my 3rd and 4th year of working get my company to fund me for a Master in Finance at LBS (part-time so I can try to network). After the 4th year ditch the company and apply for an analyst. How much if at all would the MiF be worth? Again I think after a year or 2 of analyst experience I would have to do an MBA.
Which of the 3 scenarios above would be the best for me to take up? Any advice will be appreciated.
1 is the only one that is remotely possible. With very few exceptions, investment banks hire analysts almost exclusively from college. Your next entry point to IB is after an MBA.
Also, analysts in IB who want to become associates can be promoted directly with relative ease. No need to get an MBA. And pre-MBA IB experience is not at all necessary to get into IB as an associate.
What makes being an IB analyst desirable is that you can skip the MBA and/or go to a PE fund or hedge fund, which is rather difficult for an IB associate.
Analyst or Associate - Which to apply for in S&T? (Originally Posted: 01/08/2013)
Here's the question: I am doing an MSc but my only previous experience is an internship. Should I be applying as analyst or an associate in S&T for SA? Cheers!
analyst
If you have to ask, analyst.
ANALYST. wow, really>
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