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2nd year IB Analyst taking questions
 

LifestyleBanker's picture
IB
 
Points)
 on 11/28/12 at 9:45pm
qa.jpg

Hi everyone,

I'm a longtime lurker of this forum but I've never posted before. The information I got here over the past couple of years was hugely helpful when I was in school and looking for my job in banking, and still useful today. I wanted to give back by providing an opportunity for people who may be in the position I was in a couple of years ago to ask questions and get straightforward, frank answers.

Quick background on me:

1. Second year top-bucket analyst in a top coverage group of a BB investment bank
2. Target school background, consulting at a small place before banking, econ major with fairly poor grades (under 3.5)
3. I got into banking due to sheer persistence and networking

I'm able and willing to answer any questions about recruiting, coming in as a lateral, life as a banking analyst and pay/exits. I have a good view into recruiting on-campus as well as I did this and got a few offers back in the day (not where I'm currently at). If you have specific questions about consulting vs. banking, making the jump from consulting to banking or otherwise "breaking in" I could really help. Let me know, I'm happy to help out a community that helped me so much.

Thanks!

Tags:
kidflash's picture

can you tell us about your

IB
(Gorilla, 666
 
Points)
 on 11/20/12 at 7:02pm

can you tell us about your background?

traveler818's picture

what are some things we

(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 11/20/12 at 7:34pm

what are some things we should do and shouldnt do when networking?

Is cold calling obnoxious or recommended?

antd1214's picture

Hi, I'm not exactly in the

 
Points)
 on 11/20/12 at 8:41pm

Hi, I'm not exactly in the same position you were in, but I was hoping you could provide some guidance. I have my accounting degree from a small college and passed the level 1 CFA exam in June. I've been working in insurance while looking for a job as an analyst but so far have been unsuccessful. I didn't expect passing level 1 to instantaneously get me a job, but I was hoping it would help. What is your opinion of my situation and is there any advice you can give me?

Thanks.

reformed's picture

What industry do you cover?

(Orangutan, 304
 
Points)
 on 11/20/12 at 10:57pm

What industry do you cover?

LifestyleBanker's picture

Sorry I've been away for a

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 2:49pm

Sorry I've been away for a few days. The holidays meant tons of last-minute work followed up by traveling this year.

1. Background: second-year analyst from a target school. I did some other stuff for a year before banking, PM me for details. Econ major with fairly poor grades (3.0-3.5), which mattered less due to my experience.

2. Networking: there's tons of good advice about this out there, most of which is good. People don't expect you to be totally smooth or natural when you network - they know you're networking, with the goal of getting your foot in, so demonstrating effort and diligence and coming off as sincere and dedicated is a good bet.

In my experience, cold-calling can help you as long as you're not totally terrible at it. Two examples. 1) A guy came with a reference from an ex-analyst who was pretty good. He had bad grades but you could tell he really wanted the job. He had the inside track among most of the analysts until one weekend where he made a bunch of really pathetic, transparently brown-nosing calls to various analysts at my desk just to "talk". Opinion turned on him, he had a harsh interview and no offer. 2) I met a guy at a recruiting event, took his resume and forgot about him. He sent me a follow-up email, which I also forgot about (been really busy, he didn't majorly stand out). Finally, he called me at my desk to very professionally follow up. I was impressed, mentioned it to some of the other bankers, and he got an interview. We'll see how it goes.

My advice on networking is to think about recruiting from the other side of the table. What do these guys want in new hires? Typically it's competance, composure, work ethic, and a desire to do banking rooted in a very realistic picture of what you're getting into. No one wants to hire an analyst who shows up, is shocked by what he/she finds, and quits soon thereafter. If you've got all of those nailed, then come off as natural and have a good conversation with whoever you'ver you're talking to. One last point: senior bankers typically don't engage in the recruiting process until way later, so in the early stages the analysts run the show. Get them to like you and you'll have a far better chance at interviewing because senior bankers will just ask them to handle the screening process.

3. CFA - not necessary and not a golden bullet, as you mention, but will definitely help. The other thing that really helps that no one really realizes is Big 4 accounting in the transactional services (M&A) group. Big 4 in a consulting group is useless. Tax also works if you've got great fundamentals.

4. Technology

Hope this helps and keep the questions coming, I'll try to make sure I'm more prompt this week.

yeahright's picture

Lets say someone is coming

O
(King Kong, 1,088
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 3:02pm

Lets say someone is coming from a very technical background including major, and goal is some form of an AM role. And they currently work in a random mid/back office role at a BB.

1 - would financial modeling be necessary to learn beforehand? or would it be not expected due to background when dealing with interviews?

2 - whats the best way to reach out to people in an attempt to lateral (at the same bank and elsewhere), best time period?

3 - how long do you stay at the current position to avoid burning bridges but without pigeonholing yourself?

thanks

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

balls.mahoney's picture

I'm curious - what did you

IB
(Orangutan, 282
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 4:26pm

I'm curious - what did you lateral from?

bloomtodie's picture

Hey LifestyleBanker,

(Chimp, 12
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 4:31pm

Hey LifestyleBanker, interested to hear your thoughts on MBB Consulting v BB Investment Banking? How you personally see the trade-offs re: lifestyle, compensation, exits.

And where you see yourself in a couple of years - MBA/Industry/HF/PE?

Cheers!

NineOfive's picture

i'm curious, regarding the

 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 4:45pm

i'm curious, regarding the networking aspect, you said the young chap you met at the recruiting followed with a phone call. How long do you think is appropriate to follow up with a phone I call after no response from email. I understand ppl in this industry are very busy so i don't want to be the one that comes across as bothersome and pressuring for a job.

LifestyleBanker's picture

Yeahright - 1 - I'm not sure

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 4:45pm

Yeahright -

1 - I'm not sure about financial modeling, since I didn't do AM.

2 - Best way to reach out is to email people, introduce yourself and tell them that you're interested in what they do and would like to discuss. Obviously, if you know anyone at all who might be able to serve as a reference or set up the conversation, it will help. Depending on your situation, you could also talk to people at your own group, regardless of level, and tell them you're thinking about a change and ask about options. Coworkers with former employers, managers, post-MBA people may all be helpful.

I'm glad you asked about timing because I feel that timing is actually one of the most important parts of "breaking in" to anything, but it rarely gets mentioned. There are periods of time where you can predictably expect that banks will need off-season hires. The pool for breaking in this way is way less competitive and a great back door. Off-season hiring periods vary by bank, but here's a basic list:

A. ALL SUMMER LONG - even if some place tells you they're not sure yet because they don't know how their intern class will shake out, keep in touch and stay top-of-mind. Bankers hate recruiting, especially when they have to fill spots they were expecting interns would fill. They'll gladly hire almost anyone if you pass the bar.
B. Shortly before the December holidays and again right after - you'd be amazed how many people quit around the 6 month mark, and banks need laterals around now.
C. Around late March to May - also known as last call, when staffing just isn't adding up for the following year either because of unexpected departures or insufficient new hires. Banks will hire you as a lateral and start you with the incoming class.

Obviously, these dates may vary by bank, but this general flow is common. The best way to keep in touch with this is to network with a couple of analysts at each of the banks you're targeting and have them keep you informed about any departures or other events that would require an off-cycle hire.

3 - Leave really early or stay for one year and then leave. If you leave really early, you can say that it just wasn't for you and you want to try something else. Senior management may be a bit irked that they have to find someone new now, but they'll understand. Alternatively, stay a year, pick up some useful skills and resume items and then leave. This has a higher chance of management being upset because they'll feel like you bailed (particularly since many places have 2 year commitments).

yeahright's picture

Very helpful and to the

O
(King Kong, 1,088
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 5:00pm

Very helpful and to the point. Thanks.

Reason I asked specifically about how long to stay at a current job until looking to lateral, is one of the VP's I work with has a lot of connections across the industry including his wife who is at another BB. I would think he would be more willing to help if I stuck around for a year and then looked ot transition. Plus, my position is not in a 2 year program so the only people I'm concerned with upsetting would be the people I work directly with who could help down the line significantly.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

jman28's picture

Do you believe that lifestyle

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 5:46pm

Do you believe that lifestyle in consulting is more enjoyable than IB, even if it has some negative aspects such as more travelling? Also, just generally could you give a run-down of your typical workday?

thanks.

Dreamgazing's picture

Own story about networking?

(Baboon, 162
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 6:19pm

Own story about networking? (Vaguely so that people won't recognize)

1) Time frame you started?
2) What did you do wrong in college? What would you change?
3) Any stories about people that really impressed you when they reached out/networked/interviewed?

balls.mahoney's picture

yeahright: Very helpful and

IB
(Orangutan, 282
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 6:28pm
yeahright:

Very helpful and to the point. Thanks.

Reason I asked specifically about how long to stay at a current job until looking to lateral, is one of the VP's I work with has a lot of connections across the industry including his wife who is at another BB. I would think he would be more willing to help if I stuck around for a year and then looked ot transition. Plus, my position is not in a 2 year program so the only people I'm concerned with upsetting would be the people I work directly with who could help down the line significantly.

Then I would say stick it out for at least a year, and at the very least you get to collect a bonus. If you can establish a rapport with the people who you say would be integral for a move, I think it would take about that long. Although they might not want to see you go, they will likely understand. Especially if you're at a larger bank - they tend to value retaining talent within the firm over inter-company disputes regarding staffing. The fact of the matter is, if you're looking to make a transition and you're capable and good at the job, its in their interest to keep you within the company rather than run the risk of losing you to another firm. Obviously, this differs bank-to-bank as some are more short sighted...

LifestyleBanker's picture

NineOfive: i'm curious,

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 6:40pm
NineOfive:

i'm curious, regarding the networking aspect, you said the young chap you met at the recruiting followed with a phone call. How long do you think is appropriate to follow up with a phone I call after no response from email. I understand ppl in this industry are very busy so i don't want to be the one that comes across as bothersome and pressuring for a job.

A week is usually more than enough. You need to give people time and understand that recruiting isn't the most important thing they have going on, but you don't want to be forgotten. You need to stay top of mind. Bankers are instant gratification types, and they like to have immediate solutions for immediate problems such as recruiting.

LifestyleBanker's picture

This year I'm thankful for...

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 7:35pm
Prangs's picture

How do you treat non-targets

O
(Orangutan, 264
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 8:05pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

Prangs: How do you treat

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 8:44pm
Prangs's picture

LifestyleBanker: Prangs: Ho

O
(Orangutan, 264
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 8:50pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

Prangs: LifestyleBanker:

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 9:14pm
peepstache's picture

Thanks for taking the time to

(Baboon, 137
 
Points)
 on 11/26/12 at 9:57pm
rufiolove:

When evaluating whether or not to post something on WSO, I think to myself, "would an idiot post this" and if the answer is yes, I do not post that thing...

Y2A's picture

How did you overcome your low

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 3:03pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

Econ as a major is good

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 4:30pm
TheBetterBanker's picture

I appreciate you taking the

(Chimp, 12
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 5:45pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

TheBetterBanker: I appreciate

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 6:28pm
dukebanker12's picture

are you currently going

(Baboon, 103
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 6:31pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

I skipped PE recruiting last

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 6:48pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

Dreamgazing: Own story about

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 7:10pm
NVTrojan's picture

Isn't your strategy for PE

(Chimp, 10
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 8:04pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

That's definitely a risk. My

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 8:16pm
AsianMonky's picture

I'm majoring in Finance, and

(Orangutan, 339
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 8:36pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

AsianMonky: I'm majoring in

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 8:43pm
highonlife's picture

Dear lifestylebanker, Thank

(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 11/27/12 at 8:54pm
LifestyleBanker's picture

highonlife: Dear

IB
 
Points)
 on 11/28/12 at 1:02pm
southernbydesign's picture

Quick question -- I am

(Chimp, 13
 
Points)
 on 11/28/12 at 9:47pm
KadeemR's picture

For a first year, what is the

(Chimp, 13
 
Points)
 on 11/28/12 at 11:22pm
GrandJury's picture

First off, congrats on

IB
(Baboon, 120
 
Points)
 on 11/29/12 at 2:31am

The greatest risk you can take in life is not to risk it all.

JohnAnthony7's picture

Continuing off of KadeemR's

(Baboon, 152
 
Points)
 on 11/29/12 at 10:19am
ct banker's picture

Quick question about

(Orangutan, 303
 
Points)
 on 11/29/12 at 10:50am
asharm4's picture

I go to community college

(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 11/29/12 at 11:25am
HWF's picture

Do you know anyone / are

(Monkey, 49
 
Points)
 on 11/30/12 at 3:38am
jkjkjk's picture

Do you like Investment

IB
(Monkey, 55
 
Points)
 on 11/30/12 at 5:09pm
jkjkjk's picture

And thanks in advance! You

IB
(Monkey, 55
 
Points)
 on 11/30/12 at 5:11pm
Sandhurst's picture

This is great stuff,

IB
(King Kong, 1,235
 
Points)
 on 11/30/12 at 5:14pm

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."

LifestyleBanker's picture

KadeemR: For a first year,

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 4:23am
LifestyleBanker's picture

JohnAnthony7: Continuing off

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 4:37am
LifestyleBanker's picture

ct banker: Quick question

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 4:54am
LifestyleBanker's picture

HWF: Do you know anyone / are

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 4:59am
LifestyleBanker's picture

jkjkjk: Do you like

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 5:08am
MikeP's picture

Hey LifestyleBanker, Thanks

(Chimp, 4
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 2:21pm

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