How to be persistent without being annoying?

I am a non target junior with a 3.6GPA. I have been consistently networking for a summer analyst position over the past 4-5 months through cold emailing and referrals. I have built up quite a few relationships with people and it seems to be going well so far. I am at the point where I really want to get interviews and I dont want to be left behind or lost in a pile of applications/resumes. Some of the firms I have been talking to have recently told me that some things have changed and the best thing to do is to apply online. Other places have told me my resume is under review currently and if they are interested I should hear back soon. Should I continue to network and talk to people or should I just let it go and see what happens? I am thinking there is a possibility that they see me as annoying and just tell me to apply online so I will go away, but also at the same time it seems that they might be telling the truth..... What should I do?

Thanks in advance

 

Thanks for your response pubfinanalyst---- The thing is, most of the relationships I have made are with analysts. Now that recruiting time has gotten closer I have asked them to pass my resume along and such. They have been more than happy to put me in touch with people on the recruiting team. I would then reach out and have a few back and forth emails with them and eventually they tell me that I should apply on the company website. For another place they told me that right now they are focused on full time recruiting and that if I want to apply to our summer internship program, please visit our website. Should I get back in touch with them in the near future to still try to get on a phone call or just hope that they pick me for an interview via the online application?

 

Just chalk it up to experience...and no, you weren't being annoying, as he left the door open by saying " I don't THINK"...which can be interpreted (rightly so) as uncertainty in the matter.

 
sofib09:
Just chalk it up to experience...and no, you weren't being annoying, as he left the door open by saying " I don't THINK"...which can be interpreted (rightly so) as uncertainty in the matter.
XPJ:
Haha... that's great. Lots of dickheads in the industry. Don't sweat it, just move on. You weren't being annoying.
alexpasch:
Whatever dude, some people are dicks; though without reading the emails it's hard to say for sure...

he's probably a dick and was having a bad day. keep going

 
Cartwright:
You shouldn't have cold emailed asking for internship...you ask to grab coffee or have a quick call to learn more about the industry and other such BS.

If you're looking for an internship for NEXT summer (2012) then coffee sounds good ...but if you need something in a month or two, why not just email (especially if you have a decent resume)? This is what other cert users have told me - I'm not saying that they're any more experienced than you.

Not to mention the biggest factor - geography. Coffee's not so easy when you live far from any financial hubs...and not everyone lives near NY, SF, etc.

And if you have absolutely no connection/commonality with which to draw from when reaching out, are you still supposed to think that a transparent informational interview request will result in a banker offering me an internship in a couple months? You know 993837million times more than me - please don't think I'm a snotty know-it-all, I'm just sayin...

 
Cartwright:
You shouldn't have cold emailed asking for internship...you ask to grab coffee or have a quick call to learn more about the industry and other such BS.

This. I don't know what your original email specifically said, but his first response leads me to believe you came on a little strong with the internship talk. He would have at least referred you to an analyst if you framed it as if you were just looking to learn more about the industry, and not secure a job right off the bat.

His second response was still very dickish. He's probably going through one or more divorces at the moment though, so don't hold it against him.

 
judowned:
You cold emailed a very busy guy and he actually took the time to answer your question. You ignored his answer and emailed him again. How does that make him a dick?

While you make good points, I think:

sofib09:
... he left the door open by saying " I don't THINK"...which can be interpreted (rightly so) as uncertainty in the matter.

and that he said "hiring" led the OP into asking for something "unpaid". His reply was dickish because he could've simply said, "I think you misunderstood me, we can't accommodate any more in interns."

@OP: You were definitely being persistent. Keep it up. Don't waste your time being a dick to dicks.

- Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered. - The harder you work, the luckier you become. - I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
 

One time I just cold emailed and got an initial reply saying "Try working on your grammar skills first." I couldn't find anything wrong with the email so I emailed him back asking him what was wrong and never heard from him again. No name boutique and mid-tier liberal arts educated MD. If they don't care enough to respond properly, they're probably not worth working for. I'm making a list of all the people who were excessively rude and hope I run into them again when I'm big. Brining karma back!

 

lol

reminds me of how I coldcalled a BB here everyday (atleast 2 times a day) for the past 2 weeks, and everytime I asked to speak to that person (HR) he/she would be "busy", the receptionist would say after my call gets routed to his desk(on one of the calls, I heard his/her voice telling the receptionist what to tell me). The receptionist ended up speaking in a raised voice:" She says she is always busy!" Sent him/her 3 emails, no reply.

Instead of firing off a hot, anger-filled email, I remember what my hindu Indian friend (Krishnan, bless your soul buddy) would always say: Choo choo! The karma train is never late ;)

This MD will be in the same exact position you're in in a relatively short amount of time, just watch. He'll be even more desperate, and I'd laugh hysterically if another senior banker gave him the same answer :D

Heres a good question: Should I contact bankers directly or speak to HR (I usually get this answer: Check our website and complete an application)? If the latter, how do I get their contact information? What should I say in the initial e-mail? Sorry to hijack the thread (no pun intended lol)!

Greed is Good.
 

Love all the responses. I am currently taking a break from sending out cold emails for a summer internship (real estate investment in case anyone has any leads) so this was quite timely.

1) I have to agree, yea ignore that guy, he was probably having a bad day. 2) I have found emailing works so much better than calling if it is cold, because people have email wherever they go, so it only takes 1 minute to respond to your request. 3) I don't think most people are offended if you cold email them with a short to the point letter stating your purpose and then throwing out an overview of your skill set. 4) Companies who "get it" know its always good to have quality people in their pipeline for when positions come open so it makes sense for them to at least spend 10 minutes on the phone with you if you're story is good.

Good Luck!

 

Would it kill you to say "i'm sorry, you are right. I misunderstood you. Have a good day" ? Especially considering that you probably did come across as an over-eager beaver?

The guy is probably not in charge of hiring decisions, which is why he "didn't think" they were hiring interns.

More is good, all is better
 
ChairmanMao:
it's like hitting on chicks at the club. you never get mad at the ones that reject you, you just keep moving on until you found the one that's DTF.
Why did he get monkey shit for this???
Get busy living
 
Bondarb:
I think its great...I'd rather get that then nothing in response. In fact, I would wait a week and then email him again saying that you had spent the week working on your listening skills and now you are ready to start the internship.

Please do this. I really want to know if this will work.

 

@OP: This is basically some guy's poor attempt at humor and making himself somehow feel important. Happens all the time and its never funny.

What would be funny is if you did this:

Bondarb:
I would wait a week and then email him again saying that you had spent the week working on your listening skills and now you are ready to start the internship.

And then post the repsonse along with his conatct info.

--- man made the money, money never made the man
 

sounds like a fact finding mission. I love people like that. I will tell you Asian women are very much that way. They will ask you a million questions that dont even pertain to the conversation you are having which makes it seem disengenuous and non empathetic.

The one who does not fall, does not stand up
 
aspiringtrader:
ProdigyOfZen:
I will tell you Asian women are very much that way. They will ask you a million questions that dont even pertain to the conversation you are having which makes it seem disengenuous and non empathetic.

This happened to me at a college party recently, most people were celebrating graduation and I'm getting interrogated about my job offer.

hahahah classic! I know the feeling. Its incredible because they feel like they HAVE to KNOW everything about every possible variable in the job to succeed. I just go in and adapt to the situation.

The one who does not fall, does not stand up
 
monty09:
it is not an asian thing its an issue most young people have. I have been asked tons of questions about crap that does not matter but for some reason young folks want to know...

Hey Monty whats going on? I agree that lots of young people could be like that. I was just trying to point out as the poster above said its a cultural thing to asians especially chinese women. It is just something I have noticed while I have meandered through life.

Its not necessarily a bad thing and I have known russian women to do the same thing. This is most likely the reason why a lot of people think certain asian groups or russians for example are socially awkward.

The one who does not fall, does not stand up
 

What's an auto-reject email like? What did it say in the text?

Maybe it was some sort of mindf*ck game/test where they dangled a different position to see if you were actually interested in the one you applied for?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Auto reject was boiler-plate. Paraphrased, "Thanks for your interest in xxxx. After careful consideration, we have decided to go with other candidates. Your resume will remain in our system, and we encourage you to visit our career site....."

I thought the dangle too. I said to the interviewer, "so I am interested but do not want to seem ambiguous here" they said to not worry about that and the head wanted them to push me towards this other Role. Which, was again weird on why I never received the face to face, and makes me think I was dinged on the follow up. Who the hell knows.

My honest feeling was that hr made up that the head wanted me in the other role. I think after our convo, hr thought it would be a good fit (I knew that I was under-qualified though).

 

6 hours!?!? START TO PANIC!!!!

In all seriousness though, they haven't forgotten about you and your persistence isn't going to change anything. I would maybe call your recruiter tomorrow as he has arguably the greatest vested interest in your success (outside of yourself obviously) as he's getting a decent check if you get placed. I would caution against contacting the people at KKR as I've heard of issues before where the company / recruiter gets pissed off for you trying to go around the system. As much as the recruiter is there to provide candidates part of their role is also to deal with the process so that the working professionals don't have to. If the people at KKR start getting blown up with emails they may wonder why the hell they're paying all that money to a recruiter which will in turn piss the recruiter off for you trying to cut them out.

 

Great thank you! It's been the culmination of not hearing back last week on the final word along with this. Just want to be sure I'm not leaving anything on the table. I appreciate your reply. Thanks

 

This might be tough but I would say focus on applying to more positions and locking in new interviews. You have finished all the face-to-face you can do and have tried your best.

If you were to follow-up, email the person who gave you a verbal offer. Also in your emails don't just say you are express interest, highlight (briefly!) how you can contribute and what areas you sincerely think differentiate you from others.

 

My theory is this, and don't take it too seriously because I'm getting nowhere with networking...

It takes 1 minute for him to look at your resume, 5 mins for him to talk to you on the phone and 2 mins for him to call someone and get you an interview. That's a total of 8 minutes of his day. No one is that busy that they can't spare 8 minutes of their day, or even 8 minutes over 2 months in your case.

If someone just won't get back to you...they aren't interested. Yes he has things to worry about all the time, but you don't just magically slip out of his mind, after all you did talk on the phone.

In my mind, if I was a senior person and I saw the resume of a kid I thought could really help my firm, I'd give him those 8 minutes of my day.

But what do I know, I'm having no luck getting an interview either. Call him until he responds.

 
wallstreetballa:
I've literally been playing hide and go seek with this ceo of a boutique for the past 2 months now....

in the last 8 times i've tried to get a hold of him, I've managed to get a hold of him once (last week) where he told me he's too busy to talk right now (after market hours) call back tomorrow morning. Problem is the "tomorrow morning" i last called ( a week ago) I got his secretary because he was in a meeting and was told he;d call me back (LOL).

Strong believer in never letting a lead die but at this point i really don;t know if i'm just annoying the dude or being persistent. Debating on calling one more time or emailing, what do you think fellas?

Call again. What do you have to lose?

 

I called the MD I will be working for literally 9 weeks in a row - i really wanted that particular job. The way I looked at it was, if I do nothing I lose the lead. If I do a lot odds are he will help me out before he puts me on the do not answer list, I was guessing missed call 50 or so would put me there - so either way worse case is that I lose the lead. However, the upside was huge. Its good risk/reward.

These guys are busy and they do not mean to blow you off its just that they have millions of dollars flying around and literally 100s of emails to get to. Always be respectful of working people's time. Like dont call at 9am and always end any message/email by thanking them for their time.

 

Judging from all your comments especially MJ901s and Monty's, what i'm experiencing is actually normal.

I plan on attempting to get a hold of him next week, you guys are saying keep calling which i agree with, but I feel as if i should send him a detailed e-mail, or is that just a waste with a huge probability of getting shipped into thin air since he probably gets 33453 emails a day.

 

I have contacted big players before (guys who I met briefly on the golf course, I was caddie at the time). Example, head trader at one of the biggest shops on the street. It took awhile, probably 15 phone calls.

At the time contacted him, I was a sophmore. He gave me 30 minutes at his desk. He gave me alot of good advice. Long story short he told me wasn't qualified. Two months later he left me a voice mail putting me in contact with another MD at big PE shop. I interned at the PE shop.

Keep calling him. When you finally meet with him, he'll be real with you and take it from there.

 

I have his cell phone, we went on a 5-6day trip together last year for R&R (even though we met only by accident), and he invited me to lunch last time I was in HK (about 2 months ago).

 

Also, last time we met, he notified that he was hiring. He could've gotten me hired right away if I had a MBA. I went to lunch at his invitation (and expense) only for friendship, and had no idea something like this was going to happen.

 

We've known each other since end of 2009. We spent quite a bit of time planning our R&R. We met on some hobby forum. (ahem, what are bankers mostly interested in?) Our trip was pretty damn good, and we spent lots of time discussing business/politics as well.

 
humble_chinese:
We've known each other since end of 2009. We spent quite a bit of time planning our R&R. We met on some hobby forum. (ahem, what are bankers mostly interested in?) Our trip was pretty damn good, and we spent lots of time discussing business/politics as well.

what cocaine forum are you on?

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!
 
humble_chinese:
We've known each other since end of 2009. We spent quite a bit of time planning our R&R. We met on some hobby forum. (ahem, what are bankers mostly interested in?) Our trip was pretty damn good, and we spent lots of time discussing business/politics as well.

I'm just trying to get a sense of whether, from his perspective, it looks like you just reached out to try and land a job. If so, I figure that he probably feels a lot less compelled to help you. That's totally different than someone you're friends with, who you met before banking, or at least where the relationship doesn't seem like it's based on career/networking. I honestly don't know anything about banking, so I could be way off, that's my opinion on relationships in general. For example, I recently had a guy who really helped me land interviews and make it to the final round at his company. Our relationships had been formed way before he worked there and I never even thought he'd help me careerwise. We had a friendship that was built on two people who thought highly of each other and got along. I think he spoke highly of me because he meant it, and because he wanted to help a friend.

 

Can you guys be slightly more specific? I've been contacting him once a week. At what point does it become unacceptable? Is it more professional to call his office or his cell? Leave voicemails or no voicemail?

To the above commenter for "cocaine forum", you're pretty close, but no dice :)

 
humble_chinese:
Can you guys be slightly more specific? I've been contacting him once a week. At what point does it become unacceptable? Is it more professional to call his office or his cell? Leave voicemails or no voicemail?

To the above commenter for "cocaine forum", you're pretty close, but no dice :)

now im interested. pm me site as im always into the fringe

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!
 
nontarget:
This is one random post. Since he is a random contact I would just call his cell phone. Try to get through his secretary. He may be really busy.

Hmm... I do not have access to that information. I can try calling the main and ask for his secretary I guess...

 
humble_chinese:
So this guy doesn't pick up his office line, and he doesn't have an assistant/secretary. What do I do? What's the max number of times I should call someone's cell phone? 3? 2? 1? 10?

How did it go?

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!
 

dude you're waitlisted and they're waiting to hear back from somebody i can't imagine this is any clearer; keep looking elsewhere. pissing off an MD is the absolute last thing you want to do. you did great for a non-target already

 
[Comment removed by mod team]
 

One day, I'm going to just leave like 3 candidates hanging; and the first one to "annoy" me, gets the job. I would do that for something like a sales job, where persistence/balls are important. (I read somewhere that a good hiring practice is to tell people that they didn't get a job, and see what they say back; if they protest and say you are making a big mistake, then they're worth the hire, haha).

 

You may have a sell-day at some point, essentially a matchmaking process. Firms will bring in everyone they've extended offers to, and candidates will meet representatives from multiple groups. The groups rank their favorite candidates, candidates prioritize their favorite groups, and decisions are made based on matrixing the two.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Congrats man. I would actually try reaching out to HR - they might have a better idea of where you will be placed. Personally, I don't think it's a bad idea at all to reach out to people in the equity team, but I wouldn't go overboard if you're worried that they might get annoyed. Maybe pick 1 or 2 people to reach out to.

 

Sint qui quia facilis quis. Exercitationem molestias sint et cum vel molestiae.

Ut beatae ea architecto beatae et. Vitae perspiciatis eveniet dolor velit. At quia enim est tempore quas eum.

Ipsa deleniti et quo qui autem quod repudiandae. Soluta maxime ab quis id ab voluptate similique. Sapiente quas sit doloribus maiores. Debitis facere quibusdam ad a. Modi aliquam aut necessitatibus beatae quia aut.

"I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's." William Blake
 

Quo sed est nihil eos aliquid. Autem debitis illo laudantium culpa cupiditate. Deleniti quia ea ipsum deserunt aut omnis rem.

Temporibus vero sunt tenetur est necessitatibus at distinctio adipisci. Placeat adipisci quia inventore fuga eum. Eos temporibus quos ab.

Et non et et recusandae. Magnam incidunt eum quas voluptates. Omnis doloremque cumque nihil quasi corrupti eos optio.

You can't kill the guys you trade with
 

Libero sed blanditiis ad iste ducimus. Omnis vel distinctio saepe. Sunt non nobis assumenda doloremque quam nemo. Nihil modi qui sunt nemo labore voluptatum perspiciatis. Consequatur nulla excepturi sunt omnis labore consectetur.

Minima necessitatibus quod non reprehenderit rem voluptas maxime. Cumque quia id unde esse numquam.

Ea et quis nihil voluptas dolor itaque sit. In aut molestiae ullam. Quasi dolorem necessitatibus nam aut hic quo repellendus. Inventore sunt ut facere aut et.

Natus repellendus numquam temporibus consequatur ipsam consequatur corporis. Suscipit autem autem molestiae voluptate officiis iusto.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”