Seeing yet another attack in what seems to be now a weekly occurrence is really saddening/depressing. It got me to thinking how even on July 4th when I was watching the fireworks up in Portland Maine, how I wasn't sure I'd take my daughter out with us for fear that something could happen to her.
Sure enough, 10 days later in Nice France during their independence day, right where I was a few years ago, we have another brutal attack on innocent people.
Is it my imagination or has there been a marked increase in horrible news the past few months or is the news cycle just different/make it seem that way? or is this just the new reality we live in because of ISIS?
This Sucks.
It's undoubtedly a horrible situation for the people of Europe. In response to your question, I'd have to see data before making a conclusion, but I think it's likely that there has been a significant increase in the frequency and severity of terrorist incidents throughout Europe, since the beginning of the migrant crisis. The way it was handled is shameful and showed no respect for the citizens of Europe. Unfortunately, these same citizens are now paying the price for those disastrous policies.
Europe as a continent is going to pay a large price for their extreme leftist global citizen movement.
The only thing that's going to put a dent in this terror is for a US led NATO coalition to go into Syrian and turn Raqqa into a parking lot. No more migrants can be let in without vetting. Borders need to be taken seriously.
As for the US: Trump 2016
An absolutely tragic, and avoidable, way for the left to have to learn this lesson. I hope the takeaway of 2016 is the shift from PC culture to common sense.
"PC Culture," while moronic, is hardly the cause of these problems, nor does "being PC" prevent any action to rectify the situation. Even Obama's nonsensical insistence on not calling it "radical islamic terror" or whatever doesn't prevent him from ordering strikes taking out numerous leaders and sites.
I'm a Republican too, but it's best to not fall into the rhetorical nonsense. Whether you call it islamic terror or not truly doesn't matter.
I do feel that there has been a dramatic increase in bad news. Given media's left bias, my gut feeling says there are way more but not reported. Do you remember the sexual assault in Germany on New Years Eve? Media cycle on that lasted less than a day.
The first responsibility of the government is to protect its people - NOT getting on moral high horse and taking in people that may hurt its people. But sadly, people who can make decisions and make differences don't really care because they are protected by secret service and personal bodyguards.
I hate how media is trying to spin everything. Orlando is a gun control issue? Then Nice is a truck control issue. Hillary is calling for international coalition, which is as non existent as her scruple.
We need to wake up because we are the ones who get fucked. Not the politicians and Hollywood hashtaggers.
Unfortunate that this turned into a discussion on politics immediately. Such a tragic occurrence for France and the people of Nice, my heart goes out to them. We need to not only defeat ISIS and other terrorist groups abroad but try and address the issues of home-grown lone wolf terrorists. The solution to lone wolves is not as clear as some would suggest, unless we are willing to give up freedoms and monitor citizens of Muslim descent without probable cause (other than their religion). As a libertarian I rue that possible outcome because it extends further power to the government and could prove a slippery slope, I am still against the Patriot Act, I believe it is unconstitutional and should be repealed. Given that reality I am unwilling to accept further security in exchange for freedom. As for the war on ISIS, there really isn't an easy option in Syria, the rebels could also be future terrorists and Assad is a despot. We can only support the Kurds but they are the minority and are fighting ISIS on multiple fronts. Ground troops requires a commitment we cannot fully fathom, how long do we think NATO soldiers would have to be stationed in the region? I say a decade after we wipe out ISIS, at the very least. We need fully commited troops from the stable countries in the region coupled with programs designed to economically uplift if we hope to achieve long-lasting stability, but Iran is going through it's own moderation, is at the throat of Saudi Arabia, and the Arabians fund other organizations we would consider terrorists. Turkey is headed towards Erdogan being a dictator. Needless to say, the solutions to these issues are a lot more difficult to ascertain than many would have us believe.
p.s. let's not let the media allow us to believe terrorism is some sort of new occurrence, it's just headed towards more religious and less nationalist in the past quarter century
Turkey is having a coup right now....
it failed, many are saying Erdogan set it up to further consolidate power, he has arrested like 6,000 ppl. Talks of the death penalty being enacted in Turkey, this could be exactly what he needed to declare himself "President for life". All around just a bad look.
It's extremely sad and makes you feel a bit helpless at times.
Life is fragile so spend as much time with those you love. That's all this stuff makes me want to do.
Sad and pathetic. But genuinely speaking, I do not quite understand what is stopping terrorists from attacking London. They have been talking about it for quite some time now.
While on many 'traditional' counts we may be winning the war on terror, it in no way feels like that. From Chicago neighborhoods where I live that are rattled with gun violence to Nice, France -- violence is winning, and it's a daily world of uncertainty and fear.
Muslims need to start ignoring and explaining away (i.e. reform) parts of their religious books. The Christians did it with the old testament, why can't they?
World governments should start ignoring religion entirely and point out that it isn't based in reality, incited violence, divides people pointlessly, and serves little purpose in an enlightened society. Hah, good luck ever getting that to happen though.
I agree. I also don't think that point is soon like you said but I do think the rate at which we approach that point is increasing pretty rapidly. Technology, availability of information etc.... I truly think if I had grown up in an era before the internet I would have drastically different beliefs (or lack of) compared to now. It's getting harder to hold beliefs when contrary ideas are ubiquitous on the internet. I think this situation leads to people either changing their minds when it's uncomfortable or more often people doubling down on their dogma. It may provide some explanation for the hard (extreme) lines being drawn by political parties in the U.S. The country appears to be pretty divided and more adults think about issues in terms of black and white
this will never happen because many governments use religion as a way to control the populous and maintain power. See: Saudi Arabia.
I am just waiting for this shit storm to unfold... it's a terrible thing to see, but we can't just sit back and do nothing within our own borders as well. Whatever we do we can not respond in fear because then they win.
Really unfortunate what happened. I don't really understand why people think re-writing the Islamic book is the solution, that is not the solution. Here is the reality: Muslims do and will continue to live among us and every nationality around the world given the scale of the displacement of refugees (the current crisis)... So, "turning any country into a parking lot" is hardly the solution... Also, I don't see a problem monitoring or conducting thorough background checks of immigrants... if the person has nothing up their sleeve then there is nothing actionable for authorities, it's really not that big a deal as long as a refugee can come and set up a new home in the new country. You will always have some rough patches, but at least there will be some control over radical behavior. It is very sad to see the West and Middle-east to be truly divided and basically live in fear when it comes to Muslims, the religion is really not that much different than Judaism and Christianity, just some different forms of prayer and tradition, the principles are exactly the same.
Fyi buddy, Raqqa is not a country. It happens to be ISIS' control center. Turning it into a parking lot will not stop all terror, but it's a damn good start.
The rest of your post is unbelievable pie in the sky naivete. We need to fight a war against ideas by killing the people that have those ideas, plain and simple. Obama sitting around saying he condemns another attack is not going to move the needle here.
Bad take on my part. 180 change of heart.
People and religion is the problem. It's all a load of BS and predators look around for turning humans into sacrificial animals. It's not about Allah or whatever, it's about domination, dividing people, hatred, street cred etc.
I think the use of terror has grown over the last decade. My explanation is this: highly interconnected online networks increase the emotional impact (in terms of breadth and severity) of any event. This is really valuable to marketers (who sell emotions). Unfortunately, the same is true of terrorists.
I used to live in Nice for a year and was walking around the Promenade des Anglais every day - and at night, usually drunk lol. Beautiful place. Know where exactly this happened. Was literrally discussing with a friend to go over and visit these days, had missed it. Hits straight at home..
As a critique towards Islam (and NOT to people who believe in it) it seems that it has managed to overshadow the national/cultural identities and differences among countries that are predominantly muslim. It transcends cultural and national backgrounds and has become an identity itself for many people. That's where it should be tackled. Make it possible for people to be, for example, proud Tunisian and non-religious or atheist.
If the situation in Turkey has shown anything, it is that the majority of muslims DO NOT want to live in a free society. These people WANT to live in an Islamic society, ruled by authoritarian strongmen, and under some variant of sharia law.
We need to come to terms with the fact that these peoples' beliefs about how society should be and how one should conduct themselves as a human being are completely antithetical to those in the western world.
With that said, there's no need to get emotional and become unhinged like @Virginia Tech 4ever". Let's not pretend like there aren't a small minority of sane people who want nothing more than to get out of these societies and embrace our way of life. It's important that we don't get emotional and forget this.
hahaha
What exactly are you trying to rationalize or justify? Are you saying that due to two world wars and more recent conflicts in the Middle East, the natural and expected outcome is for Muslims across the world to blow themselves up in airports/restaurants/buses and ram trucks into innocent civilians?
You're a fucking moron.
Muslims have been wreaking havoc on the western world since the 70s, hijacking planes, and have been engaged in war amongst each other since time immemorial. Their societies exist in general squalor with human rights abuses, women treated like animals, and totalitarian leaders who would sooner see humanitarian crises than concede power (Assad). As @Virginia Tech 4ever" mentioned, literally 90% of the world's active wars/conflicts exist between Muslim states, groups, neighbors, or sects. The brutality of the non-secular Islamic society is not only incompatible with Western civilization or even non-western norms of civility and peace, it's fucking incompatible with the human race. Muslims are engaged in interminable conflict within their own Islamic framework, so tell me again how it's the Western world's fault that Habibi walks into a restaurant and blows himself up, asshole?
Wow, this is sickening. Fuck off first and foremost.
1) The migrant crisis has been tied to a number of recent attacks (although not specifically Syrians, although they were used as the emotional leverage to allow millions of middle eastern migrants into Europe). Plain fact is these European nations allowed hundreds of thousands of ultra conservative people into liberal nations. Forget the killings. How about the rapes, sexual assaults and crime brought about from these immigrants. You have pools being shut down because middle eastern men can't stop sexually assaulting people.
Islam is essentially Christianity from the 1500's. Sickening. The US and other nations should show zero tolerance and respect to anything other than watered down islam. We castigate Christians who are against gay marriage. We admonish religious people who talk about family values. Yet we allow Muslims to force women to wear burkas, be ok with gays being killed and allow them to come to our liberal nations and spout their toxic religion.
2) Gotta love the mentally unstable garbage you are spewing. If a Muslim kills people and claims it is for Islam, then they are always insane/gay/jilted/anything but what they say. If a Muslim hugs a panda for Islam, then it is always for Islam. Sorry bro, but he is mentally unstable because he prays 5 times a day and believes in the spaghetti monster. He killed all these people because he believes in Islam.
3) Perpetuating Illegal Wars. Wow.
a) First Iraq War was not illegal. Saddam invaded a peaceful MUSLIM nation and a just war was fought. Afghanistan was a legal war. The Taliban committed endless human rights crimes, harbored terrorists and got what they deserved. Honestly, the fact that the Afghan people now welcome the warlords back show me how backwards they are. Iraq II was bullshit, fine. Libya, not illegal. It was an uprising that the US and European nations decided to protect the people from gunships. No invasion.
b) Even if there were "illegal" wars, how is this justification for killing civilians? It isn't. You are a pussy.
c) Love how this is painted as evil westerners getting blow back for killing muslims in the ME. As if these nations were peaceful in any way. Iran/Iraq war. Attacking Israel. Libya was constantly invading neighboring nations. Saudi Arabia in Yemen. Muslims killing and meddling in other muslim nations affairs.
4) Mass killings by US/European/Christians - Wow. Moron
a) WWI involved US, European and Muslim nations (see Ottoman Empire). It was a nation state war. b WWII involved nations from all over the world, including Muslims. c) All the rest, fuck off.
It is sickening how you equate running over people celebrating Bastile day to wars in Vietnam or the Middle East.
You also seem to forget that Muslims do this same interventionist shit in their own neck of the woods. Realpolitik isn't just followed by Western Nations. Saudi Arabia does it to hem in Iran. Iraq and Iran had a huge regional power struggle. Libya thought of itself as the ruling power of Africa and meddled throughout the continent. You have nations that support the Palestinians, etc. So the poor pity me routine holds no water.
You're partly correct. Although the perps of these attacks are all european nationals and not migrants, their radicalization has been heavily enabled by syrian migration. The people who committed the attacks at the Bataclan, and the ones who conducted the attack in Nice are from highly isolated communities in Europe where they are in constant contact with ISIS radicals and fighters travelling from and to Syria on a regular basis. This is the case with Molenbeek in Belgium, which is a town infamous for breeding terrorists such as the ones who conducted the Bataclan attacks and the Madrid train bombings in '04.
TLDR: Open borders and migration have not bred terrorism. Instead, migration has fed and powered the radicalization of EU nationals. Don't believe me? Just look at documentaries where Molenbeek residents have been interviewed-people in these muslim ghettos are not only apologetic of the recent terrorist attacks, they are also supportive and understanding of them.
Trump 2016 and a huge congratulations to the British on their leaving of the EU-you won't regret this. The "experts" will tell you wrong, the liberals will accuse you of being racist and nazis, and the media will shun you as uneducated bigots-ignore them and keep fighting for your beliefs.
The left's defense of these people is ridiculous. Just because you're not going around shooting people or blowing stuff up doesn't mean you assimilated. Unless you change and adopt the ideologies of the country that accepted you, you didn't assimilate. Survey after survey confirms these people prefer their laws to those of the countries that accept them. Attack or not, you're still mixing oil with water. This isn't even about attacks as much as its about the incompatibility of these groups. What they stand for runs completely counter to liberal internationalism. They spread out and slowly try to change the countries that accept them into the ones they left. They hate the terrorists more than non-Muslims because attacks get even the left on board with realizing this doesn't work. No attacks and sharia creep can go unnoticed. Europe messed up big time with this one and attacks should only be one of their worries. The slow ideological decay they'll experience is a far bigger issue. Go ahead and down vote and use the typical left tactic of negatively characterizing everyone that disagrees with you. The reality is that this point is held by some of the most influential people on the matter, and is backed by both history and actual data. Entire countries were structured post-war so as to keep Islam isolated and non-expansive. The developed world's leadership has completely gone astray.
Actually guys, Infant_monkey has a point here.
Just like VT4E (and I've heard this many times from many people) expects average muslims whenever they have something to say have to apologize first for all the attrocities done by islamists; it would be the same for us white people come out and apologize first and denounce: Nazis, Fascism, Apartheid/Racism, KKK, sovereign citizens, drone strikes and whatever f*cked up shit Europeans and Americans have done the last decades up to today. It's LUDICROUS.
False equivalence.
1) White people fought white people in WWII. Germans have bent over backwards to apologize to Jews. Free speech is limited in Germany and Mein Kampf was banned until this year with some loop hole.
2) Fascism isn't anything to apologize for. It isn't just white nations. Fascism doesn't equal racism.
3) Racism isn't entirely a white phenomena. All races and ethnicities are biased and racist.
4) The US apologizes for drone strikes when it hits innocent civilians. I am waiting on Islam or countries that support radical Islam to apologize.
See, the difference it the US or other Western nations ACCIDENTALLy target civilians. Islamic terrorists PURPOSELY target civilians. In fact, Islamic based terrorism across the board hits civilians. We stopped waging total war a long time ago.
Also, the things in the past, while fucked up, had historical context. It is 2016. Killing civilians, stoning gays, treating women like property, arresting rape victims because there wasn't a male relative to confirm a rape, garbage like this, all is currently happening in any number of Muslim nations. So don't talk about shit that happened years ago to excuse the atrocities happening now.
I'm not excusing atrocities, I'm very much anti-bigottry and anti-far right, whether it's the far right from Europe/US or the Islamofascists. These pigs are promoting the same agenda; they hate different people from them. In their empty heads they have a very very specific image of what a 'true' Arab Muslim is or a 'true' European is and want to alter society to that specific image of theirs either through driving specific people out of their homes or through genocide.
It's 2016 and there are Israeli politicians calling for a genocide of the Palestinian people (I'm not exagerating) while Hamas and Hezbollah are fighting ISIS. Not to mention the Shia Muslim WOMEN who are bravely fighting these scumbags. Apologize over drone strikes? THAT'S the political correctness BS we're talking about. Accidentally?? Not at all. They know there's a chance the target may not be the right one and may intead kill innocent civilians, but they pull the trigger anyway. Oh and if it was mistake they can always apologize ;-) Things will be settled then, easy peasy. Also, did the US apologize - first of all to its own people - when Reagan made deals and gave power to the Mujahedin and Bin Laden in the 80s? Or bringing chaos to the whole middle east and creating fertile ground for the scummest of the whole lot to rise? What about Saudi Arabia? The country promotes Wahhabism the most fundamental and bigotted form of Islam and is full of financial links with terrorist organisations. Nah.
Why should other muslims apologize for that? Explain me.
Yep, and the reality is that their own government is trying to hide just how barbaric these events actually are. http://nypost.com/2016/07/15/horrifying-details-of-the-bataclan-theatre…
duh
@Infant_monkey" listen, we get it. You are an Islamic terrorist sympathizer. It is ok. You support and justify killing innocent people. You think gays should be killed and women are property. You basically reinforce people who say "moderate" muslims support this garbage. Thanks.
1) Comparing muslim countries that deny women being raped unless they have a male relative to verify is to a case where a judge gave someone who digitally penetrated a woman a light sentence is pathetic. Western nations actively go after rapists. You don't need a brother and father to witness something for it to be a case.
2) The stats you link to are garbage.
a) Doesn't include prison rape which is overwhelmingly male b) 1 in 6 women are not raped. These stats include all kinds of non-penetration assault, as well as harassment behavior. c) Doesn't exclude child molestation which is different from what people commonly call rape. An uncle fucking a 5 year old is both rape and child molestation. When you talk about women being raped people are not talking about child molesters.
3) Bombing of shelter - mistake, but horrible. Saddam was at fault for invading a peaceful neighbor.
Drone strikes killing civilians - horrible. The figures you give were over 5 years, not in one shot. Islam is nearing 400 this year alone (just counting the western attacks most people know). Nice run rate.
Napalm - You don't know shit. Napalm was used in Vietnam, not in Iraq. Phosphorus was reported to have been used in Falluja. This city was evacuated and all residents were warned that the city was going to be sieged. Blame Al Qaeda for digging in and requiring the Marines to level the place.
4) National borders have been carved by imperial powers. Doesn't give muslims the right to act like barbarians. SOOOO SORRRY you have to live with Kurds or different sects of islam. Didn't realize you were cave men babies who can't forget 200 year old grudges. Get over yourself.
Also, the international community condemned Saddam's invasion.
5) All those leaders you talk about came to power on their own. Western nations deal with leaders they don't always like. Either way, muslims piss and moan about the atrocities that these dictators inflict on their people, beg for help and then when it comes they revolt, hate the "invader" and then elect hard line muslim leaders.
6) I don't believe Islam is forced on the people. I believe that people in the middle east do not believe in democracy or tolerance. They believe in a sky monkey and pray 5 times to a joke. The world is advanced and moving forward in civilization and Islam is making women walk around in black robes. Total clown.
7) Nothing was accomplished in Afghanistan. That is because we believed that Afghan's could actually handle democracy. The US should have simply installed a brutally cruel, pro-Western dictator and moved on. I am a supporter of all cruel ME dictators because it is apparent that Islam breads child like behavior.
So sad to hear about it. Another black day in history.
ha ha
Liberals don't want to admit it, but the core problem is radical Islam.
Islam is a religion with around 1.6 BILLION followers. According to surveys by the non-partisan Pew foundation, roughly 15% of Muslims worldwide sympathize with ISIS. That figure is far higher in certain African and Middle Eastern countries. A decent sized minority also think violence is justified against non-Muslims. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that millions of Muslims hold beliefs and values that are deeply antithetical to Western principles that we hold dear: freedom, equality before the law, treating women and gays with respect, etc.
When a country brings in so many Muslim migrants, they are importing their ideology. So why would we be surprised when a small # of them become radicalized and resort to violence? It doesn't make sense why the U.S. should eagerly bring in a million more Muslim migrants (as Hillary wants to do); that is a recipe for disaster.
Our President, Barack Hussein Obama, has failed miserably. The U.S. has suffered at least one domestic terrorist attack every single year since he became President. That is not a mistake. Obama, in his state of moral cowardice and moral ambiguity, refuses to admit that the problem is radical Islam. Instead, he lashes out at Republicans, NRA, and guns, showing more anger at them than the actual terrorists. Radical Muslims have declared war on us, but Obama treats this as a law enforcement issue, a mere annoyance on par with regular crime. Those who wish to do us harm have been emboldened by Obama's weakness and are licking their chops to do more harm. If Hillary becomes President, many more Americans will die.
k
Man, I hope Homeland Security is watching this thread. You are an ISIL sympathizer.
1) The US Military is at the invitation of their host. Trust me, I wish we never overthrew Saddam, Gaddafi, or supported the Arab Spring. We should have ignored all the pleas and cries for help from the ME since they have proved to be utter ingrates.
2) Islamic nuts kill hundreds of innocent civilians in the name of the spaghetti monster. Republicans lower taxes. The KKK killed people about 50-60 years ago. Last time I checked, the KKK wasn't driving trucks into crowds of French people. Nazi's? You mean the group that Muslims supported during WWII? You mean the people who executed exactly what the Iranian and Palestinians want (killing Jews)?
LOLOLOLOL. Muslims living in peace. What a joke.
3) No bro, the definition of terrorism is pretty simple. It is attacking large groups of civilians for the specific purpose of creating fear. The US and other Western Nations have ACCIDENTALLY killed civilians, but their plan is not to target hospitals, schools or other places specifically centered around civilians. Last time I checked, NATO hasn't been bombing gay night clubs in the Middle East because killing civilians was the focus.
Oh wait, there are no gay clubs in the Middle East of bigotry. ME nations put gays to death.
4) Look in the mirror bro.
a) If it wasn't for people buying oil, the ME would have nothing to sell. All those shiny towers would be tents in the desert without black gold. Frankly, the only thing keeping a few ME nations somewhat civilized are their Kings ruling shit. Democracy in the middle east = electing stone age leaders who bring Sharia law. Keep believing in your sky fantasy.
b) Selling weapons - As I mentioned above, all these weapons are being used to keep the radicals in these nations (opps, I mean moderate muslims) from forcing their barbaric way of life on the people. Poor nations buy weapons from China and Russia. Wealthy nations buy weapons from the US, UK, Germany, etc. Canada is actually the second largest arms dealer to the ME.
It is cool man. For you, the definition of terrorist is "fluid". For the rest of the civilized world it is rather clear. Specifically targeting civilians is what Islamic Radicals do and is what terrorism is. You justify and support it. You are sickening.
My issue with a lot of posts on here is that the blame for such attacks is yet again being misplaced. It's correct to assume that mass migration does have a role to play in this but there are other, and in my opinion, more potent reasons for this: no sense of belonging. Europe has a really bad record of integrating its 'newcomers' into society. They often don't learn the language or culture and are therefore living on the fringes of society. Many of these people grow up feeling as if they're outsiders in their own home and get easily interested in ideologies that give them a sense of belonging. It of course doesn't help that Islam is a religion that is highly ambiguous and contradictory.
k
I hope @Infant_monkey" is on a list somewhere.
mm
You're justifying terrorism. Regardless of your other views, at a base level you're a shit human.
Pretty scary to see a terrorist sympathizer in our midst. Oh wait, the definition is "fluid". I am sure he was hooting and hollering in joy when Allah struck the infidels in Nice. Disgusting.
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