Any insights on HFF?
Anyone have insights on Holliday Fenoglio Fowler?
Salary, exit opps, work life?
Anyone have insights on Holliday Fenoglio Fowler?
Salary, exit opps, work life?
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Can't say much for work life or exit opps, but I am sure the pay is good. These guys have some sweet properties and are generally in the middle of many major real estate transactions in most large cities.
Assuming your're working as an analyst, the salary isn't that great. I can't quite speak specifics, but I have a friend there who was unable to afford living in San Francisco his first year on base alone (lived in the east bay). I assume the bonus was good though, he moved into the city right after. The MDs there make a killing.
Every broker I know works decent hours (60-70).
Listen. When you're considering exit opportunities in real estate, the firm doesn't matter. Trust me on this one (I speak from personal experience). Join a team that is not only killing it, but specialize in multiple product types, cover large markets, and broker big deals. You will learn A LOT. Oh and come interview time for the buy-side, you will have a lot of talking points.
Trust me on this one.
thank guys. @Fez, nicely put. Out of curiosity, were you part of a really good team before looking to switch to buyside? Or were you part of a mediocre team at a good firm and you realized team mattered more when you tried to switch to buyside?
My team established a presence throughout the East Coast (predominantly the Mid-Atlantic area). I got lucky because I was the sole analyst and responsible for the analysis, modeling (argus and excel), underwriting, market research, proposal/pitchbook and due diligence of individual and portfolio deals. Remember, these guys mentor you. If they're killing, they must know a thing or two about the industry. Invaluable experience if real estate is your thing.
My old firm is one of the top brokers in country. Why work at jll, cbre, c&w if you're not only focusing on one product type, but one market? You'll be limiting yourself. Diversify your experience and you'll be a great candidate at most buy-side firms (don't think you'll have a shot at Blackstone). I guess it also helped that I went to a pretty good school.
HFF is legit. Smaller than maybe the "top dogs" but more specialized and much more focused on major deals at the expense of smaller deals (kinda cool, IMO).
Salary is too fluid to state (it's not lockstep like banking) and especially when you get into commissions it's impossible to predict. Work life in commerical real estate is awesome. Seriously, you can't beat it. Exit ops - it's a known brand and a good one.
Awesome, thanks for the insights guys
Not to mention that I've grabbed drinks with John Pelusi at the Rivers Club a couple of times ;)
Exit ops are good because you'll see deal flow, which is key. Salary is not even close to what you should or want to be making. Also, good team environment unlike some other shops.
You can do very well yourself at HFF, depending on the city you're based in of course. In Dallas, analysts start at $40K base and can surpass 6 figures after 1 year including tips/commissions. After 4-5 years typically you'll be promoted to associate director (production role) and most producers make around $500K-$600K+ (all commission, no base). It's very rare for any producer to make less than $300K, and not uncommon for some to make $1mm. This is under the assumption that the commercial real estate market is healthy and isn't going through a correction like in 2008. Even then, plenty of guys did well for themselves just refinancing existing loans. Exit opps are good as long as you build strong relationships in the industry and with your clients.
When you say "production", do you mean they are going out and just building a network and bringing in clients?
Also successfully matching their clients with lenders/investors and making sure the deals close. That's the part where they get paid. Kind of important.
I actually have an interview with HFF next week for a position in their debt placement/underwriting division. Loki777 did you ever end up working for them? I have two year in trading mortgages and one year in FIG banking. I am looking to transition to real estate investing and gain acquisition experience. Though they place debt it seems like they do plenty of asset based modeling with Argus. Is this spot beneficial for REPE?
Any updates regarding HFF and how they stack against the other top capital intermediaries?
All depends on the local market presence and it differs from Investment sales/capital markets to leasing. In NYC investment sales it goes...
1) Eastdil 2) CBRE 3)JLL 4) HFF (I think)
In NJ however....
1) CBRE/C&W 2) JLL (Pretty sure...) Eastdil NYC team works nj as well and has some big assignments.
Ultimatley from what I have seen in many markets HFF is a great shop for investment sales (not all) and is generally always very high for debt/equity placement.
It really depends on the asset class, if its Multifam in NJ HFF is just below CBRE IMO, Jose and his team do serious amount of deals. Additionally I would put HFF above JLL for investment sales in MF in NYC and the other way around for office in the city.
I'll tell you one interesting team is Woody's at Studley, for what amounts to one mans connections they do a tremendous amount of office deals.
Adding to the geography insight, HFF is very strong in the south Florida markets (Id say top 2 with CBRE) and has a good presence in Chicago as well.
DC office team does pretty well. First team to break $1,000psf mark. Their multifamily team is solid. Have done some big deals as well.
Very true definitley depends on asset class. The rankings above are based on total dollar volume from the last list I saw.
The SF office is very young relative to the Dallas/DC/NY and is doing very well. I don't have specific figures, but their deal flow is turning up and they're beginning to capture marketshare. I've heard rumor of 2nd year analysts making 150+ all in. This is not confirmed though.
confirmed.
I would have some experience, or at least some knowledge, with Argus if you're trying to go for HFF. Argus would obviously help with any CRE firm, but heard it is more prominent here for a college intern level
HFF Analyst Compensation? (Originally Posted: 10/21/2014)
Hi guys, I am a senior in college looking at an analyst position in debt placement or investment sales at HFF. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what I'm looking at for year end compensation in either team. I know that a lot of it has to do with commission, but assuming a standard year could anyone give me a general estimate for my all in compensation?
Also, I have been advised that debt placement is better because I will gain broader experience and thus will have more attractive exit opps. Any comments on debt placement versus investment sales? I have thought investment sales might be slightly more interesting, but I probably won't be at one firm for the rest of my life, so I want to give myself the best start out of college.
I've done some research on this and other posts have said comp can be as low as $40K in some markets and even glassdoor shows average salaries of less than $50K in midwestern offices plus $5K bonus. I really hope they are wrong/outdated.
I've read about "tips" and bonuses and would be interested in learning more about how that additional comp is typically calculated for analysts early in their careers. I'd also like to know if it is really worth it to start off making such a low base versus other entry opportunities in the industry, (non-NYC)
I recently spoke with a SVP at Trammell Crow and he said working for a firm like HFF is a great way to get exposure on the "deal side" and start developing your network which is what real estate is all about. In terms of investment sales versus debt placement, the consensus seems to be that debt placement is more rigorous analytically and investment sales is more personality driven. I'd say focus on the quality of the company and diversity of deals within the company; once you're in you can probably switch roles if you prove yourself and want to try something different.
good luck
Again, to copy JDM99, if it's true that they pay poorly and you don't have a higher-paying option, then it would still be an excellent place to start. They do some big institutional deals and some people have a high opinion of them.
I can confirm the low pay from a really reputable source. People will take a pay cut work there for the brand name and the experience. Tips are dependent on what deals you contribute to, and early on you won't contribute much in terms of real support to a deal. After the first year the producers will trust you to take more of a role on some things and you will earn better tips, but all in compensation for the year will vary widely on much much your team is killing it or not. Senior analysts can make into the 100's with tips, but real money doesn't start flowing until you make it to producer, which is usually after 2-4 years. Most producers make in the 3-400's, and the top guys are easily over a mil per year. If you don't/can't/wan't to make it to producer, exits opps are good enough to get a really good job in some other sector of real estate.
To clarify J. Madden's comments a bit, you will get decent deal flow at HFF if you are in investment sales in a top market (NYC, etc.). If you are working in a regional market wouldn't necessarily say the transactions you will be working on are going to be top quality.
I would go investment sales / equity out the gates to get a proper understanding of real estate. It's pretty easy to pick up the debt side, but once you start working solely on debt you get pigeonholed pretty quickly, mostly because debt analysis is very high level when it comes to underwriting the actual real estate (i.e assume all of sponsor's cash flows and assumptions are correct and price the debt from there)
reLA While no one can argue that the equity does more in-depth analysis than the debt does on deals, you cannot paint all lenders as 5 minute underwriters. Maybe if you have a 70% bank deal that fits all the debt parameters in a major market with a well known sponsor...maybe, but not a wise practice. In my experience, higher ltv bs lending, our underwriting is much more thorough as we are taking on more risk. I think you would be surprised just how granular it can be. Just my $0.02.
Just curious, what percent of a deal does a broker and his team make? For example, if an HFF broker closes a sale of a $50 million industrial building, how much money is being split between the broker and his team?
WolfOfCali, it is usually a sliding scale. For instance, up to the first 400,000, the salesperson will keep 50% and the broker will receive 50%, from 400,001 - 600,000 it will be 55% to the salesperson and 45% to the broker, 600,001 - 1,000,000 will be 60% to the sales person and 40% to the broker, and 1,000,001+ will be 65% to the sales person and 35% to the broker.
In the $50,000,000 dollar sale, assuming a 2.5% commission (no clue if this is an accurate commission amount), and a team of 3, with the team lead getting 50% of the fee, one person (VP) taking 35%, and the other (associate) taking 15%. The splits will be as follows:
Total fee: $50,000,000 * 2.5% = $1,250,000 Team Lead (50%): $625,000 Team Lead Total Compensation According to Splits Above: $324,998.85 The brokerage house will receive $300,001.15 VP (35%): $437,500 VP Total Compensation: $220,624.45 Brokerage House receives: $216,875.55 Associate (15%): $187,500 Associate Total Compensation: $93,750 Brokerage House receives: $93,750
Please note, all splits with the brokerage house are probably negotiable if you are a top producer.
Not sure whose giving you information but no one pays 2.5% on a $50mm deal.. market is more like 50-75 bps
For major markets (specifically I know 2 people that work at HFF, 1 in Chicago in investment sales & 1 in LA for their debt placement) the pay is great when you are salaried, once you become a producer its all up to you as you are 100% commissioned based. I believe 3 years out for debt placement (or the year before they expect you to become a producer) they are all in at around $150k.
HFF's base in San Francisco is 65k on the debt side. You're bonus is dependent on your team and deal flow so it can really vary.
65k in SF? Jesus. Considering the COL out there that seems low.
Ya, lots of institutional guys who have no skin in the game will pay north of 75 bps - why not right?? Lean PE shops who co-invest their own money and focus on creating value/maximizing yield try to avoid this..
I don't see why anyone, let alone an institutional investor would overpay. If anything, I'd think they probably get more favorable terms given the volume of transactions, aka revenue, they generate for a lot of the top brokerage shops. Don't all investors try to create value?
Depends on your definition of "create value" and "investor." An asset manager who over pays a broker on a $100mm deal will "create value" for himself by having paid for lavish vacations to Vail and Vegas at the expense of the "investors"
Brokerage commissions correlate to the projected sales proceeds of the asset. If someone is selling a $10m property, then expect 3.0% brokerage commission (+/- 50 bps for relationship with broker, future pipeline opportunity, etc.). On a $50m+ sale, you would not expect the same commission. On the larger asset sales, I have seen 1.0% (+/- 50bps for same reasons above).
$50-$70K depending on market is correct. Brokerage analysts are notoriously underpaid, but they retain talent with the golden carrot of Production.
HFF Investment Sales (Originally Posted: 12/04/2014)
Is it true salary is in the 70's and then you get commission based on the deals you work on and close? What is JLL comp for investment sales?
How integral is Argus? Could someone get in as an analyst with solid excel but very minimal argus?
Argus is not difficult to learn and I would highly reccomend it for someone trying to get a job as an analyst. It will give you a leg up on potential competition and help you hit the ground running.
Would be more helpful if you defined role and market, as there is significant differences based on those variables.
As a first year analyst. I know it takes about 3-4 years to become a producer. I would imagine the markets are national. Definitely SF, LA, Chitown, NYC, Boston, ATL.
As a first year analyst. I know it takes about 3-4 years to become a producer. I would imagine the markets are national. Definitely SF, LA, Chitown, NYC, Boston, ATL.
Not so much..... 3-4 is a very long time.... If it took that long most people would not be in the business. If you hit the ground running and pick up the phone and start making contacts you'll be starting to work on deals in 6 months to a year.
Obviously you would not be not flying solo. You'd have to heavily leverage the track record of your team and call on deals that you guys have closed or have under contract.
Just was discussed. See this discussion http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/hff-analyst-compensation
I've heard that salary isn't anything special. Not sure an analyst would get commission but would get a bonus based on what the producers bring in.
As to Jll, I know that a major market think dc/NYC/boston was $65K with 20% bonus with no argus experience or any deal experience.
How difficult is it to get that position?
Hours are still pretty painful for an entry analyst, too. Think 8 AM-8PM. Sometimes longer. I know it doesn't even compare to wall street, but for commercial real estate it is on the high side.
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