Are Stern MBAs looked down upon?
So I'm looking at applying to Stern this upcoming year along with other schools. When I talked to friends and alums who went to M7 schools, they all laughed at Stern and say that people don't take their students and alums seriously. One Wharton guy said that during the London banking career trek, which consisted of students from top schools, the stern kids were looked down upon. This sentiment was echoed by numerous people. Others said that Stern plays second fiddle to Columbia, and the students there have a MASSIVE inferiority complex.
How accurate is this? I mean I think stern is a great school but not sure i want to drop $200K to feel like a loser if this really is the case.
I have heard similar sentiment - that Stern is where you go if you want to be in NYC for b-school but can't get into Columbia.
According to bankerella its more like $250 K.
Stern is a fine school... but it's not usually mentioned in the same breath as Columbia.
Apropos of nothing, what would Stern be if it were 20 miles west?
Rutgers?
Thank you. I knew someone would make the quip if I set it up.
Sounds like you were talking to a bunch of d bags.
I think Stern is a great school, but sadly i've heard the same thing. Now if you get a kickass job coming out of stern, then people will give you props. But if you don't, they will assume that you're not bright and that stern sucks in placing students. MBA business schools ">M7 students see themselves as better than everyone else, so that line of demarcation will always exist. If you're ok with not attending a prestigious school and don't mind MBA business schools ">M7 alums looking down on you, by all means go to stern. They place pretty well into NYC banking jobs.
i haven't met too many stern mba's, most of them seem pretty chipper
It really comes down to what you want to get out of your MBA experience and your career choice. If you want IB, Columbia is a better option but don't think Columbia will make life much easier.
Wouldn't it also depend on if OP wanted to do IB or not? I assume because you said banking that this means yes though?
I'm interested in macro research/strategy, particularly sovereign debt and currencies.
Doesn't sound like you want to do IB then. Not sure the MBA would be a deal breaker then.
To make an argument that Stern is looked down upon makes that person look like a pompous idiot. Its RIGHT below the quality of an MBA business schools ">M7 but I don't see any of those schools located right next to WS either....
It really just sounds like guys who think their Alma Mater is the only school worth a shit. Go on LinkedIn and tell me that the only VPs, SVPs, MDs, at top banks come only from HWS. It's not true.
stern is a damn good program and dont let any of those d-bags tell you otherwise. yes, its not HWS, but its still a very solid program that has a vast alumni base in finance, consulting and industry and places students just as well as other top 10 programs.
mikebrady is right, dont think just by going to columbia, you are automatically at more of an advantage. lots of stern students come in with experience front office roles at BBs, PE/HFs, MBB, etc. i would definitely give them a serious shot if you have the qualifications of getting into the program.
however, you better bring your A game because you will be competing with a massive amount of students who a pursuing a finance track, whereas other schools may have a smaller %.
The last paragraph is right. Stern is tough because it lacks the prestige of the MBA business schools ">M7 AND there is a higher % of students who want to go into finance than any other school. So the competition to get good jobs will be insane. If you're up for that, and it's the best school you get into, then go.
Pretty sure based on enrollment Columbia is still like 2-3x larger in class size. But anyways, I actually know a few ppl that goes to Stern or went to Stern. They agree, it's NOT as prestigious as the MBA business schools ">M7 but its not a huge gap like undergrad Ivy league vs U of Miami (no offense) or someshit.
Amen!
.
I know tons of people that went to NYU. I never thought they were looked down upon.
I agree with mashed potatoes. Don't pay any attention to the d-bags who think you won't get opportunities just because you went to Stern.
Wait, people want to work at PIMCO now? Talk about skating to where the puck was instead of where it's going.
i heard they're not too savvy with interest rates, but otherwise they're not that bad
The fund flows into FI will be horrific on average over the next 20 years, during your peak earning years (30 - 50). I know PIMCO does some other things besides that, but that's their bread and butter and Bill Gross is shitting all over equities right now, so it makes it difficult for them to branch out more into equities and maintain credibility.
i dunno i'm a glass half full kinda guy...theres a whole 200 bps of rally potential before the 10yr has officially gone to 0%
also boom/bust cycles keep happenin every few years, continually reigniting some juicy fixed income demand...plus there will always be a sizable institutional investor base that requires safe fixed income to immunize their liabilities or whatnot
tho i happen to agree that shitting on an entire asset class is maybe not the best way to make investor friends
Does anyone know how well Stern places in Trading and also Asset Management?
Also, why would Stern cost 250K?
Appreciate the responses.
Stern's "sticker cost" of $250k factors in the greater cost of living thanks to its Manhattan location. It isn't $250k on the nose, but it's well north of $200k all-in.
I will say that of the Stern MBAs I have met, most seem to be cognizant of the fact that they couldn't crack the M7. Whether it was for a poor undergraduate record, substellar performance on the GMAT, or average-ish work experience (for MBA applicants), some component of their app was lacking. For most people with the goal of entering or progressing within the financial services industry, it's Stern over a school like Yale SOM/Tepper/Darden/Ross or sometimes even Fuqua thanks to the access you arguably get thanks solely to location. As a direct result of that, you see a higher concentration of students aiming for finance positions, leading to a very competitive recruiting environment. Every single major bank is there for IBD and a few for S&T, but buy-side opportunities quite frankly do not compare.
At the end of the day, however, remember what you're getting. A very good school, a great experience in Manhattan, quality professors, and strong recruiting opportunities. With some hustle, you could make the best of it and come out on a very lucrative career path. You have to pay for it through the nose and it isn't the creme de la creme, but think of the thousands of poor saps who would kill for your position.
Insecurity breeds doubt, and I mean that in two ways. The smug greaseball at Columbia rocking the ultimate post-grad slickback who can't stop talking about his "premier" work experience, pristine undergrad pedigree thanks to Penn and Exeter before that, and "immense career opportunities" is going to run his mouth about how bad the other decent school in town is to comfort himself over the fact that he's failing in first-round interviews on-campus. Same goes for the insecure guy at Stern biting his nails every night about how bad his options are at a "lesser tier" school and complaining to everyone he met that if only he hadn't had family circumstances arise during the two months he had to study for the GMAT, he'd be in such a better school.
Since you're writing this now, I presume you just moved into the city and are going through orientation. I encourage you to not be that guy I just described. Go into it with open eyes and a can-do attitude and crush it. Carpe diem.
Silver Banana to you, APAE!
this is an absurd post. NYU is a fine business school and it would not be a waste of money if you went, unless you are a complete swine.
In this field, the amount of dicks/assholes is astronomical, as a young guy you would be wise to find a better mentor then someone telling you that one of the top business schools in the country is "frowned upon".
I am a Stern MBA and I totally agree with the above lines. Stern is a great school, but as every other school, has its strengths and weaknesses. Regardless of what you may think, no school is the best place for everyone. Be diligent, take vacation time to visit every school you are considering applying to, talk to students and faculty about what each school offers, not about why their school is better or worse than the others.
By the way, if things haven't changed since I graduated, Stern people (and most people from the other schools too) will refuse to judge other schools, and I honestly believe this is the way to go. People should only speak to what they know.
For the record, in the S&T track, I remember that in % terms, my class placed much better than CBS's.
OP: message me if you need any info.
Sent you a PM regarding this post.
Regardless of pedigree - once or if you go to Stern kick butt and you'll be fine. There's nothing stopping you from getting the job you want unless you just don't have the skillset - and that means if you'd gotten into Columbia you'd still be in the same situation.
I've worked with people from Stern who had varying degrees of competency but the same was said for Harvard and Wharton. Stern people I know have placed everywhere from Carlyle to top tier hedge funds. The major benefit to going to Stern is the alum and the fact that you are in NYC.
The person going to Wharton can't intern for Soros...you can if you go. Sure there will be Columbia people competing, but that's the point of networking and studying - so you can get your foot in the door and prove your work experience for the eventual full-time recruiting and hiring.
I worked with two Stern guys in ER. Both good dudes; very smart. I've talked to bulge bracket banks that were only recruiting Columbia and Stern last year due to budget cuts, and a lot of banks didn't bother to bring ER recruiters to my school because we aren't known for ER yield.
Most of the buy-side crap has to do with your background pre-school. Columbia might get you a slight edge in interviewing at value funds because of the Dodd/Graham legacy and if you are too lazy at NYU to knock on firm doors in NYC. ER and S&T is definitely doable from either school.
I honestly don't know the real difference between Columbia and NYU, other than that I'd rather live near NYU...both place into ER, buy-side funds, and other finance gigs.
I agree with most of what you wrote. The NYC location and strengths of the finance program are similarities shared by both schools. However, there is a fundamental difference between columbia's name brand/reputation/alumni network/opportunities compared to nyu. I would say it's somewhat similar to the difference between say harvard undergrad and brown-both awesome schools, but one has a structural advantage that the other will never eclipse.
Don't take this stuff personally, just focus on what YOUR best opportunity is.
Unfortunately, a lot of douches in the ivies, especially undergrad. Not as bad in grad since the students are older and more mature.
OP, if you get into stern and like it during the visit, by all means go. You will have a HUGE chip on your shoulders, but let that motivate you into getting a better job than MBA business schools ">M7 students. Also, at stern you will be busting your ass off to get access to the same opportunities as MBA business schools ">M7, so your social life won't be that great. But hey, no pain no gain.
Stern is right below M7. Probably better than Dartmouth and Haas. Its gmat score is comparable to all the top MBA schools in the world. Granted, it is not as prestigious as HBS, Wharton, Stanford. But to look down upon is a ridiculous statement.
shitstorm incoming...
I'm not going to lie, I actually laughed out loud when I saw who posted this topic........
Anyway, Stern is a great school. Fantastic alumni base due to the fact that many companies in NYC pay for their best employees to do the part-time MBA at Stern. These guys are fast-tracked up the totem pole and end up in a great spot.
Why would the people at the top NYC finance firms do Stern part-time as opposed to MBA business schools ">M7 full-time?
Because not everyone is willing to forgo the six-figure annual income they receive in their current role to go enter a full-time MBA program when they are perfectly happy with their job. The people you see at these part-time programs tend to be sales guys on trading floors who are hitting that VP level and have someone nudging them towards the MBA for credential purposes only, or AM guys who want the legitimacy of a school's branding so they look more credible when raising funds to manage, or ER guys who think they need branding past the CFA, or any of the myriad legitimate reasons people choose a part-time program over full-time.
stern is a great school and we take great pride in ourselves.
fk those preppy ivy leaguers
and UConn is to GE and insurance!@@!~!~!~!
Don't think that's true. Stern - the institution - isn't really considered a serious peer or competitor to or by those schools, but that's very different from not taking the people seriously.
Can't say about career treks per se, but the perspective in London is definitely different from what you'd find in America. You'd be surprised how little Europeans and Londoners, even financiers, know about American business schools.
I do recall a conversation with a Stern student in which he, unprovoked, made frequent references to and comparisons with Columbia, so there's certainly some truth there. I've also a good friend who's an alumna and she openly recognizes that Columbia is the better school. But scratch a little further and you might find that Columbia has a bit of a reputation amongst the MBA business schools ">m7 too...
One thing is to ask for data so you can form your own judgments and it's quite another to ask for advice on how you should feel. Only you can know what you want to get out of an MBA. I'm sure that most Stern students and alumni don't feel like losers.Stern is great school and it's graduates can be found in just as many prestigious roles as those of Harvard or Wharton. This reminds me of when I was in undergrad. All the students would make fun of Cornell students calling them rejects from other Ivy League schools. The reality is that Cornell was and is an amazing school. Likewise, NYU Stern is a top Global MBA and it's location in NYC makes it an even more attractive option especially for those students interested in Finance.
Nam maxime maxime assumenda at nobis quibusdam nulla. Enim aspernatur qui quo sit. Hic occaecati eum vel officia.
Nisi deserunt ducimus a doloremque at. Necessitatibus dolore qui omnis qui perspiciatis eos. Soluta et possimus ex aut officia. Rerum quo sed placeat tempora.
Dignissimos nihil voluptate minima beatae velit. Cumque quia dolor qui. Sit quidem dolorem error quis hic excepturi. Et harum corporis fuga ut. Autem sunt voluptas quo voluptatem voluptate odio sunt.
Rerum aliquid est ut vel assumenda suscipit et. Eaque in aut et. Est qui provident vero voluptatibus. Necessitatibus est distinctio et sit totam. Magnam earum nobis odit tenetur fuga perspiciatis et molestias. Ut sit mollitia velit molestiae quidem.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Dolorem eum ut quia quasi nesciunt. Et voluptas labore et. Neque eos quia ad et. Quasi ad saepe voluptatem enim mollitia. Rem praesentium consequatur consequatur ut ut.
Sed eius adipisci aut occaecati. At eaque est ipsam minus. Eveniet magnam quam est magnam illo qui veniam.
Nihil sequi ab est iste. Maxime id quo et et animi fugit ad voluptatibus. Quia temporibus autem non. Sit eaque iure reprehenderit velit.
Et explicabo commodi modi natus sunt qui. Et atque molestiae vitae iure deserunt voluptatem. Consequatur quae autem dicta sit occaecati et. Consectetur ullam omnis inventore odio. Est quo cumque ea ipsa et nostrum odit. Omnis perferendis voluptatem dolorem eligendi omnis corrupti perferendis.
Id libero rem eum nihil quia. Labore velit doloremque velit ducimus.
Deserunt a saepe aperiam ex et autem. Voluptatibus vel omnis voluptates et tenetur saepe eum. Voluptas eum omnis optio voluptas et fugiat. Nam ea saepe sit eum eveniet sed sequi. Sed enim autem ipsa id nulla.