Ask Me Anything: First-Year at MBB
Hey WSO,
I used to be fairly active on this forum but ever since I started at MBB, I got way too busy (no surprise there). I'm about six months in and I wanted to give back to the community by offering to answer any questions you might have.
Some background on me:
- Chemical engineering undergrad degree from a large state school
- BA/A/AC at a southern US MBB office
- Have worked on a consumer case in LA for the last six months, about to roll off and start on an energy case near DC
- Am the undergrad recruiting school specialist for my office at my alma mater (basically I make the interview list)
Feel free to ask away! I'll do my best to answer everyone's questions as truthfully as I can. Looking forward to it!
How often do you see individuals lateral from the research side? Not my personal experience, but I have some colleagues at MBB in research that have actually had offers to lateral to BA/AC positions.
To give some perspective, we recently had a trivia event in the office during a Friday happy hour, and we split up by cohort. The post-MBA cohort had to be split up by MBA/PhD, because there are just so many PhDs, haha.
Thanks for doing this!
Is it what you expected?
Can being referred by a senior individual at an MBB (say partner level) get you on that interview list if other parts of your resume are weak? (say a really low GPA)
I know that this is definitely possible, but the person is putting their neck out for you so unlikely if they don't think you have what it takes.
Does MBB value IBD experience, say an internship at any BB (first and second tier)? And following on from Sarah's question, what position starts to have an influence when it comes to referrals? Project leaders and above or...?
And to answer your second question, please see my response to Sarah's question. I will add that I've heard of senior partners getting people with weak resumes through to decision rounds based solely on referral, but that's rare. The senior partner isn't going to do that if the candidate really is weak overall and doesn't stand a chance of getting an offer... looks very bad.
If you're a first-year and the school specialist, you're not a "recruiter" and you don't "make the interview list."
I have been a school specialist at a couple of different levels. You do contribute quite a lot to the list, as you're the person is expected to best know many of the applicants -- but actually writing the list is something you do not control. Resume screen is out of your hands, for example, and there are undoubtedly people in the recruiting team whose full time job it is to organize recruiting at that school. The idea that they let a first year associate/BA make the interview list for a target school is ludicrous.
I appreciate what you're saying, but you don't work in my office -- so please believe me!
thanks for doing this! adding it to the frontpage this afternoon
Also curious about how MBB views IBD experience. Are there FT laterals (from IBD to MBB)?
What's the GPA floor, and how much is GPA taken into consideration at the end of an interview? Also, how much does networking matter?
Once you get the interview, GPA really doesn't come into play at all. It's all your interview performance at that point.
Networking is HUGE to land an interview if your resume isn't perfect. I've personally added people to the interview list because I remember talking to them and liking them (of course they were qualified as well, but between them and a similarly qualified person I've never spoken to, I'll go with the person I know). But networking matters much less after the interview selection stage.
Any suggestions on networking from a non-target for consulting? I've looked at linkedin and there are maybe 2-3 alumni at the MBB's...am I screwed just because of that? 3.9+ gpa and a BB ops internship
Thanks for answering this. When you talk about having internship experience...how is a BB ops internship looked at? Obviously this doesn't carry the weight that an IBD internship or a F500 corp dev internship would. I should also have another internship soon..but it will be an investment analyst position at a 'no name' firm. Are these enough/relevant? After reading your last post...I'm hoping these internships are enough to be relevant for MBB internship recruiting next year.
to add to the last post...I dont think any of those 3 alumni are in consultant roles...hence my question
How would someone from a non-target school be able to get an interview with your firm? What can they do to stand out?
Can everyone stop using the term "roll off"? It's useless jargon.
So is "case" in some sense -- but that's what everyone calls a consulting project. "Roll off" is what absolutely everyone in the industry calls it when you leave a case.
"Project" works just fine, or even "engagement".
On a related note, "Sheep" is a great term for people say things just because others say them. ;)
OP, I've been working as a 1st year Project Management Analyst at a F50 firm. Graduated last year.
Is there anyway that I can lateral to MBB Business Analyst role? Or is that almost impossible to do. Have you seen people latering into MBB 1/2 years out of college.
Thanks.
Of course, you need to have a solid resume. Basically, it should have been good enough to get an interview when you were a senior in college, and your work experience should be of similar caliber.
Hi @"NoName", thanks for doing this.
Would you say that there are certain offices that are more competitive than others to get into? Following that, would you say there are offices that are easier to break into?
I appreciate the insight. This is something I assumed. That, and the amount of people chasing prestige.
Some of the questions asked of OP are laughable. Have you guys actually read his/her experience? How do you think a 6-month analyst is going to answer those questions about lateral? LOL If you can't make a quick evaluation about what the right questions are when speaking to an individual (no matter who that individual is), maybe you should think twice about management consulting, let alone MBB.
Any interviewing tips?
Does your firm recruit foreigner with MSF degree from the caliber of WUSTL? Is it possible for me to land a job there?
Do consultants add any real value to a business? I feel like it's a scam/useless.
I wouldn't want to be a consultant. Too stressful in terms of job stability and you get out of there with no real hard skills. At the end of the day, a managerial decision is basically just a common sense decision.
I feel like companies hire consultants just to be able to blame them in case something goes wrong.
NoName, I've got a question regarding the PST. Do you have any tips (apart from those floating on internet) on how to prepare for it ? Also, how important is the score if, say, you've been recommended by some of the firm's employees ?
Thanks in advance for the answer!
NoName, I've got a question regarding the PST. Do you have any tips (apart from those floating on internet) on how to prepare for it ? Also, how important is the score if, say, you've been recommended by some of the firm's employees ?
Thanks in advance for the answer!
What suggestions would you have for underclassmen trying to break into the industry? Anything that you did early on in your college career that you think set you up well for landing internships and ultimately your consulting offer?
Could you go into a little bit of detail on how you landed your first good internship? I've been finding the first is usually the hardest to get, especially considering most places only want juniors.
@"devildog2067" All right man, I changed the title of the thread to be more accurate. Better?
would you mind sharing what comp structure is like?
In addition to salary + bonus, which is already pretty generous, we have great benefits which contribute to the total compensation package. Health insurance at my firm is worth $10-15k per year per family member. Retirement contributions are also quite generous.
Overall, really can't complain! (other than the fact that I took a ~$30k per year salary cut to go from reservoir engineering to consulting, haha... but ideally the move will pay off soon)
Might want to remove a lot of the info you're revealing if you want to remain anonymous
Few comments:
Generally my experience with recruiting is more similar to @"devildog2067" than @"NoName" -- not saying either is right or wrong, but that's just my opinion. Source: I'm EM/PL level at MBB, have conducted pre-MBA and post-MBA interviews
First year, post-MBA comp is well published. From there it goes up ~15% every year until partner level (6-8 years in). It goes up a faster if you're a high performer, and potentially much faster (30%+) if you are an absolute star. First year partners are 600-700K. Senior partners are a couple/few million a year, and at the very high end top out around high single digit millions. Out of undergrad the starting figures are well-published. If you do well, you can be at post-MBA pay within 2 years. If you are slow, it could take 3 (or maybe 4) years. Also some people leave for grad school, etc.
Interview tips: Try to make friends with the interviewer. In the end, their assessment of you is what matters, and that assessment is definitely subjective based on how much they like you. Don't be a total suck-up, but do make friends.
Interview tip 2: don't ramble when they ask you to walk you through your resume or "tell me about yourself"
Some consulting projects don't add value, some do. On average, I think they do add value. Especially places where the company keeps bringing back the same firm/team over and over -- they're doing something right!
Thanks again for doing this-it's incredibly appreciated by the community.
What are MBA acceptance rates to top 5 B schools from the associate level?
I actually recently received a deck from my firm about this exact topic. I can't share exact numbers, but I will say that acceptance rates to the top business schools from the BA/A/AC level at my firm are in the range of 60-80%. So pretty damn good.
First, thanks a lot for this thread! There is too little consulting talk on WSO.
I am currently final year undergrad at a non-target with 1 year experience in tech consulting at Big 4. Ultimately, I would like to work at MBB or other smaller tier 1 consultancy (e.g. Marakon). I tried to get in this year but was unsuccessful. When the recruitment season starts later this year, I will be trying my luck again. Having that in mind what would you suggest:
1) Start a graduate programme at F500 company in analytics/finance/general management role (and which one of these is more relevant/favourable?) 2) Go to a tier 3/4 consultancy (which is better for MBB - unknown strategy firm or tech/operations consulting in Big 4 or similar?) 3) Do a masters in strategic management at a target/semi-target (top 10 in Europe). - I work to pay for studies myself though, so I will have a hard time to do anything meaningful beyond getting decent grades and applying for roles. I also will not have a chance to do a summer internship this year.
Am I aiming too high given my credentials?
Take that with a grain of salt, I would recommend seeking additional advice from others!
sorry double post
Thanks for this AMA! I know your recruiting experience has to deal with undergrad/pre-MBA but do you happen to know how the interview/recruitment goes for Post-MBA? Is there a significant difference?
Thank NoName,
Is age a major consideration when looking at new grads? Do the MBB firms discriminate against older MBA grads? Will they take a slightly worse 27 year old grad over a slightly better 32 year old grad?
It is a fact that most people at MBB are quite young (I'd say that ~60-70% of my office is under 30), but that doesn't mean we discriminate against older people... it's just the way it normally plays out.
Thanks for doing this.
For someone looking to make a lateral move from a lower tier firm (almost 1 yr exp), would you recommend networking/keeping eyes open for the rare BA/A/AC position, or waiting until the next season of campus recruiting in Fall '15?
In your time in consulting, what exit opps have you seen people pursue?
Thanks for the reply. What sort of PE firms do those who leave go to? MF/MM/VC? Is it for operational roles or portfolio roles?
To clarify, people from MBB (Bain especially) enter PE in an OPERATIONAL role. This is entirely different from the deal side that IB analysts come from. People who work at Bain and do a rotation in PEG (Private Equity Group)/leave for PE do different work from investment bankers/PE associates. They don't have the modeling skill set to do the work that ex IB analysts do. It would be a mistake to think that someone from MBB would have the same job as someone coming from BB/EB IBD. Still interesting work though.
How would a junior year internship at a Big 4 in federal consulting look when applying to MBB fulltime? Would it work to talk about how a Big 4 does more strategy work with federal clients than with commercial clients?
From what you've seen, is it better career development-wise to hyperfocus on a particular function/industry or to stick with a generalist approach to selecting your projects? Specifically optimizing around climbing the ladder and exits to the particular industry that you've focused on.
At the pre-MBA level, I think it's actually best to jump around as much as possible. This is totally expected and helps you develop your skills, and most importantly, helps you understand where your interest/passion is. I know a few BA/A/AC's who have only done cases in one practice area, and I think they're doing themselves a disservice because they're not opening their eyes to everything that's available.
At the post-MBA level (starting, not PL/EM), there's nothing particularly wrong with remaining a generalist, but it can help build your "brand" if you specialize in a practice area. It will be easier to be staffed because partners will recognize as you "they guy" (or "the gal") for that type of case, and when promotion time comes, they'll be thinking about you in terms of being a future partner in that practice area. And you'll need to specialize at the PL/EM level anyway, so if you already know what your interest/passion is, it can help to make that known a little earlier.
Then to some extent, at pre-MBA, it sounds like you're saying that being more generalist seems to be the default because most people don't know what practice area they like. But if you do already know that (truly hypothetically), do you dive in or hold back a bit?
Where
Where do you see yourself over the next few/5 years?
I think the takeaway here is that you will need to decide for yourself whether you can see yourself staying at MBB on the partner track, and that will be pretty obvious after spending some time at the firm.
Fair enough. Why are your fellow BAs unhappy?
Can you follow-up on this 19 months later? Curious to see if the way you felt 6 months in is the same as now
I wouldn't necessarily agree with the above. I know many MBB consultants that went into the same roles as people from BBs. Some cases require the same type of modelling that a BB analyst would use. How much in the way of modelling do you think a BB analyst learns in the few months they are on the job before PE recruiting starts, that someone at a MBB can't learn in the same time or over a couple of years?
@"Dece" - MBB people will take on roles/projects within the portfolio companies. You would be doing similar type work to well...MBB. You aren't going to be the guy sitting there doing the LBO modeling. They're the in-house consultants plus a little extra. The deal guys are the investors.
@"NoName" - That's probably true, as consulting involves a lot of cleaning up of data then performing the analyses. Saying something like "the same model multiple times" is a bit of a generalization. Every transaction is different, there are some very simple ones, while others are extremely complex. Some MBB do make the jump to the deal side, but it is rare. A close college friend of my brother is an MD at BX, and he said they only really hire McK people from the consulting world. In MBB, you gain exposure to the commercial due diligence and operational side of things. There is not much exposure to the accounting, legal, and the financing side of things -- these are all pivotal to the deal side. Some funds are more known for hiring ex-MBB such as Bain Capital, American, Advent..etc. Shops like KKR, TPG, and Carlyle will 99.9% of the time hire bankers. It's not like you wouldn't have a shot, you will just be competing versus people who have spent a fair amount of time in M&A, LevFin, Sponsors, blah blah blah.
Ultimately, being on the deal side and the operations side are both fascinating. Simply different strokes for different folks.
Fair enough!
Dude quoting your brother's college buddy doesn't cut it. All but one of the people from my MBB class that are going into PE (probably 10 or so in my office) are going deal-side, generalizations like this aren't helpful to anyone.
Does undergradad gpa matter if you try to lateral later on?
Does undergradad gpa matter if you try to lateral later on?
For a post-MBA lateral hire, you can't have a trashed undergrad GPA, but other factors weigh more.
MBB go to PE just like an IB kid go to PE, same role. This isn't even debatable.
100% correct. To expand on this a bit, some PE firms have two 'tracks':
The 'deal-side' track buys and sells portfolio companies
The 'operational' track works closely with portfolio companies to boost their results
Consultants can move into either track at some PE firms. Others hire only bankers for the 'deal side'. However, my sense is that it's not too difficult to go from MBB to PE deal-side: There are many more IBers looking to move into PE than MBB consultants.
Conversely, I actually don't know if bankers could move into the Operational track. My guess is not, so consultants actually have more flexibility in this way.
From what I have seen, most BA-level MBB consultants move into the Deal Side, not Operations.
Do senior consultants gain enough expertise on companies within their industries that they can identify investment opportunities in that industry?
Do senior consultants gain enough expertise on companies within their industries that they can identify investment opportunities in that industry?
Posted this on another thread, but thought might as well give it a shot here.
Bain PEG is regarded as the best PE due diligence out of the MBB. How is McKinsey's practice? (Its called Private Equity Practice - and I believe BAs can be directly placed in it).
Although DDs are a significant part of MBB's PE work, I would guess they're the minority of total PE work. Maybe less than a third of total. Part of this is because they're shorter. You'd have to do a bunch of DDs to get the same amount of work as a longer study integrating a new acquisition.
Follow-on studies for portfolio companies, PE firm-wide strategy work (e.g., what portfolio of operating companies, how to structure org of operating companies, etc.), market scans, and other work is also typically part of a PE practice
Thanks a lot for this. Do you know of why there seems to be a disconnect between the knowledge that BAs can be placed into Private Equity Practice versus just staffed? (Or maybe "Private Equity Analysts" aren't considered BA?
Maybe @"AriZGold" might know more about this? There seems to be posting for Analysts to directly place into the PE Practice, though they don't seem to be called Business Analysts, but PE analysts
(Sorry if I'm slightly hijacking your thread @"NoName", but really appreciate the answers you have on here)
It's a fact that most consultants from non-targets (think Big 10) are engineering majors. What do you think is the best way to stand out if you are an accounting/finance major at one of these schools?
What I look for personally and have seen from successful non-target applicants to my firm (so, not universal rules): nosebleed GPA, nosebleed SAT I, full academic scholarship, credible summer internships, excellent leadership experiences. Basically, need to demonstrate that you have the academic chops to compete with candidates from top-tier schools (GPA, SAT), the hustle to compete with them for employment (internships), and polish (leadership). Obviously if you are pursuing a comparatively easier course of study (finance/accounting) it will take a higher GPA to impress vs. e.g an engineering major. I know a McK BA who was hire with a 3.5 GPA from a non-USN 50 state school... but majored in Chemical Engineering + 2 unrelated majors + had 5 semesters of relevant work internships (engineering coops) at a F500.
You seem to have a pretty great gmat score. To what extent does scoring 740 or 750 impress MBB people if you are somehow average in other aspects?
In terms of how gmat score is viewed for MBB recruiting, I think a 750+ score can impress, but it won't make up for other aspects of the application if they are severely lacking. I think it's more that a 750+ score can help push you over the edge if you have a competitive application, but won't necessarily save you if you have a weak application otherwise.
Thanks so much for your AMA thread - just wanted to ask if there is an "ideal" time for a lateral application every year. By ideal, I mean the best time to apply to minimize the transition period from the current job to the role at MBB.
Thanks again.
Double post
As far as the discussion goes - I'd be more inclined to side with devildog. While things might be different between say... Chicago and Houston... the practice of letting a first-year "make the list" sounds highly unusual. Definitely wouldn't slide in most offices, and for good reason I might add. Additionally, I think the emphasis on networking is a little unusual. Seems like vast majority of resumes are picked without any connections at all (this is a bit different for lateral hires). In either case, I'm sure having a high gpa (like a 4.0) or being in the military (the marines are pretty cool) will go a long ways.
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