Monkeys,
Was reading the WSJ today and found an interesting article regarding collegiate athletes and jobs in high finance.
Now the article mentions what we all already (hopefully) know in that technology is completely changing the industry. From the article, (referring to athletes as these guys)
“These guys are on the wrong side of Moore’s Law,” said Rett Wallace, a former investment banker, referring to the axiom on the exponential growth of computing power. “When Airbnb can handle two million unique properties at once, and Uber can manage more than a million drivers around the world in real time, are we really saying that a few hundred thousand bond issues can’t be traded by computer?”
However the article also talks about how athletes have better coach ability, and a bigger drive to win and succeed.
They say the core attributes needed to make multimillion-dollar bets are discipline and quick thinking—two traits honed by sports, They argue those skills are still invaluable in the corporate bond market, where banks and other intermediaries take chances every time they hold securities as they look to match buyers with sellers. This is especially true in moments when prices swing violently.“It’s hard to replace that with artificial intelligence,” Mr. Bahl said.
As a former athlete myself, I am rather bias in my opinion that athletes are usually very driven people who will do everything in their power to win. I believe this mindset is very important not only in finance careers but in life. However, to counter that, I recognize that coding skills, math, etc. are extremely valuable in the work place today with the tech shift.
One edge I have seen in being a former athlete is that when I network and find an analyst or associate with an athletic background, they are MUCH more likely to message me back. I think about 80% so far have.
Do you guys think athletes are fading away from finance careers because of the tech evolution? Do you think that there is still a good outlook for athletes in high finance? If athletes are not landing high finance careers anymore, do you think there is a better suited job for them?
Best,
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Cash rules everything around me, C.R.E.A.M. Get the money, dollar dollar bill, y'all
Athletes who got through school w/ fake classes and/or inordinate tutoring will probably be going away, yes. True student athletes who aren't NCAA cash cows won't be going anywhere (DIII, non-revenue DI sports, DI sports at ivy league schools, etc.)
I agree with that position. However do you think that the overall attitude and stereotype of jocks is less attractive to employers as it once was?
im not an athlete but im not a total sperg lord either (I know how to code and work with data quite a bit, albeit in a non-finance position)
while im not the kind of person who kisses atheletes asses, i do recognize their mindset is valuable and if they are outgoing and likable, there is still a need for people with soft skills to get thing done.
nothing is stop chad the athelete from learning how to code either
having basic scripting skills is enough to get paid pretty decently
Agree here, but will say that i have seen an uptick recently in hiring of minorities that come from D-1 football background; but the few i have seen are very good: think starters at a top 20 program.
The barrier to entry into high finance (especially banking) has been steadily increasing year over year. I think athletes are fading away from high finance jobs because the education they're receiving at University is often not to the same caliber of other non-student athletes.
Most student athletes are hampered by "Athlete" courses, which are tailored to be an easy grade ("show up to class" get a pass). Receiving an education like this is not constitutive of long term growth, and puts them well behind their classmates entering the field.
The greatest lie I've seen Div-1 colleges tell student athletes is that they are... "Student" Athletes. Most of the "Student Athletes" I've seen where prompted by the college to be Athletes first. The college, though offering tutoring, didn't care about the actual education of the athlete so long as their GPA is high enough to avoid probation and play in next years season. Although it's not entirely the colleges fault because most student athletes I've met could also care less about academics and long term growth, until they graduate and reality sets in...
Keep in mind this is coming form a former student athlete at a top 20, who dropped sports to focus on academics.
Take the UNC "Swahili" case, here's a great article to read characterizing the dichotomy between academics and college athletics: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/opinion/nocera-football-and-swahili.h…
Being a collegiate athlete has been the best thing for the start of my career. I stand out from the other interns and everyone always loves to talk to me about my athletics. My reference from networking to even get that first interview for the internship came from athletics.
As a former athlete I am also totally biased, and think that I learned a lot of things in my athletic career that have helped me in the workplace. As one of the few former athletes under 30 (way more senior guys who were athletes) at my firm I think some of my non-athlete colleagues who have far better academic backgrounds and better hard skills that I do would have been helped a ton by having played sports.
Agree with the biggest reason for the decline of athletes in finance is barriers to entry are much higher, but I don't think it is because of the lack of quality education, yes big time D1 football and basketball players are not getting the same education as non-athletes at their schools but as far as I know Wall Street was never interested in hiring SEC football players in the first place. It was always the guys who played sports at a school (Ivy, D3 LAC, etc.) with good academics, and as someone who played a sport at a school with pretty good academics my education was exactly the same as non-athletes.
The big difference is that athletics take up so much time that many athletes did not take the time to network and do the self study to be competitive for recruiting, or even figure out what they wanted to do. In the past when the barriers to entry were not as high and more people were being hired firms would interview and hire athletes with no practical finance experience, with the logic that they are competitive and have drive and will learn on the fly. With less seats to go around and more and more kids who are more advanced in terms of hard skills firms are taking the kids with the hard skills over the athletes. The other factor at play is that many athletes are expected to be training over the summer, and even the ones that want to get internships are being told not to by coaches.
I agree with this analysis. I am a former athlete from a top 20 school (so I am obviously biased as well) and had trouble getting interviews in a lot of places.
You implicitly mentioned it but I think a big part of it is HR. It feels like in the past HR didn't have nearly as big of a role in the process and recruiting was not nearly as structured. Even now when someone has a network and has someone within the firm vouching for them HR will not let the application through because of some rule the firm has. For example, my undergrad GPA was around a 3.2 and I didn't have any internships because my summers were spent playing summer ball and going to classes in order to take a lighter load during the regular school year. As a result of mediocre grades and no internship to check the box, I struggled to find anything after graduation despite having a number of connections throughout the industry I was trying to break into. Every time it was the same story of, "sorry man your GPA is too low so HR won't let me recommend you." The few times I managed to sneak past the GPA cutoff I got grilled on my lack of experience and ended up getting passed over by someone that had the GPA and experience. I can't blame the company for taking the other guy given the grades and experience but it is the trend I have seen. It seems like there is much less weight put on soft skills like work ethic, people skills, competitive spirit, knowing how to deal with failure, etc and much more weight put on tangible thing some lady from HR knows how to check off. For me to eventually break in I had to get my master's (where I could start using a new GPA on applications) and take an unpaid internship at a start up shop.
As a side note just to bitch more about HR, I have a friend at a merchant trading house that had to do interviews last fall for the graduate analyst program and HR put a girl through to the in person interviews that spent the entire interview talking about how God was guiding her and she really felt like the graduate program was where God wanted her to be because she had been getting signs from him all week. This was a girl from a top 10 school with no previous experience but had a 4.0.
We take them like hotcakes in CRE.
Athletes in banking (Originally Posted: 09/27/2016)
I am a former division one football player. After a series of injuries I have my sights set on finance in general and banking more specifically (at least in the short term).
I've heard from some people to leverage my title as an athlete because it speaks to work ethic, team work and overall success among other qualities.
Others I have spoke with have told me otherwise; that I shouldn't bring it up. Based on the fact that some will think less of me academically ("dumb jock").
I'm curious what everyone's stance is. If you are a former athlete, how have you used your status? People who work with athletes, what do you think of them or just your stance in general.
It is an asset. Bring it up.
D1 helped me a lot.
How so? Did it just come up in interviews, did you leverage it during networking?....are there really a lot of former athletes in banking?
Bring it up. It definitely speaks a lot about your team work, determination and mental strength (especially considering you are in division one).
You could also use it as a convo fodder to build further rapport.
Having played college tennis and some tournaments with a rank, it helped land a few interviews and positions. The interview wasn't really an interview, more like a discussion about the sport itself.
Student Athlete no time for internship (Originally Posted: 11/09/2013)
I am a D1 student athlete (football) that majors in Pre-Civil Engineering with a minor in finance at a non target in the South. I have only completed a semester and a summer with a 3.7 GPA so far. Due to my athletic commitments, I can't see how I will possibly have the time to obtain a summer internship and graduate in 4 years. I joined the campus finance club and I have been trading my own real money account since I have been 15/16. The IB/PE/HF industry is something I have always had an interest in. How will banks perceive only having a good GPA and being a student athlete with no banking internship experience?
In case you were wondering why I have hopes of becoming a banker and majoring in engineering is simply I am comfortable with the math/sciences and I feel it stands out more coming from a non target.
Probably poorly. Unless you have serious plans/chances of going to The League, you might want to consider quitting. Football's fun and all (I played in college) but after a certain point there's really no utility. Being a D1 athlete will make you competitive for internships but you need to make sure you actually have time for one.
Removed positive supportive post due to excessive trolling by OP
Never heard of Pre-Civil Engineering... Why not regular Civil Engineering?
Lol.. Just tracked his history after posting... kinda wanna delete now... I think its a troll account apparently he has already owned and sold a car wash chain, started a concert promotion company, and tried becoming a prop trader... Deleting previous post.. now
At my school they just refer to you as pre engineering until your actually into your core engineering curriculum. Im taking my physics, calc3, thermo ect right now.
How good of a program is this? Is Saban your coach? Also why do you care about graduating in 4 years, most student athletes I knew graduated in 5 and life went on, see no issues with that.
Yes you must do an internship period, other student athletes find a way to tem.
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