MBA Recommendation Letters
Hey guys,
I am a soon-to-be 1st year analyst with an interest in pursuing an MBA down the road. Recommendation letters are clearly a very important part of the MBA admissions process, and I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how to secure a stellar letter within a consulting firm?
Is it important that the letter be written by a Partner? How about a Manager? Without going overboard, would it be in my best interest to target a "mentor" within my firm that I feel could write me a great letter in 2-3 years?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
the brand of ur firm carries more weight than the title of the employee for top MBAs. So an EM at MBB will in general weigh more than a partner at no_name_consulting_firm. I wouldn't target partners to begin with since firstly they will barely know you given your being at the bottom of the ladder and thus whateer they would write would be high levle and non-meaningful to the admissions committees. Recommendation letters are important and can swing a 50/50 candidate so you need ot be sure you have on that is detailed enough to be meaningful and can reflect on your potential. The only exception ot this rule is if you're at a firm or fund where the partner or senior guy is a distinguished alum or major benefactor of the school you're targeting. In that case, yes by all means get the letter from him since that will most definitely be a strong competetive advantage you'll have other other applicants you're competing against.
good luck
Focus more on what you want them to be able to say about you and aim for that. in other words, do a kicksss job, because the substance of the letter matters more than the name at the bottom.
Disagree - definitely want partner recs. If you're so far down the "ladder" that you can't ask a partner for a rec, you're doing something wrong. Every one of my recs was from a partner - they do this all the time.
For the partner rec, if you're in consulting, you should be able to find people who are alums of the schools you're applying to. If you don't know someone well enough to ask for a rec, ask a partner you do know to connect you with someone - they should be happy to do it. Then, be sure you can articulate to them why you're interested in a particular school, and provide them with:
Make it easy for them to help you, and they should be more than happy to do so.
^^^^ totally agree. If you can't get partners to write on your behalf, you probably aren't doing work that is impressive enough to get into a top MBA program anyway (i.e. if you aren't interacting directly with partners, then you're probably just doing delegated grunt work).
Depending upon which firm you work for, as a first year, you might not get much (any) partner exposure.
Most schools will tell you that the quality of the letter means more than the rank of the person writing it.
Ok, I don't know what firms others are at, but if you're in a client-facing position (i.e., a consultant and not just analytics support), you should have partner exposure.
As a soon-to-be first year analyst, that's where I'd recommend you start. Find opportunities to connect with partners - even informally - so they a) know you and b) are willing to invest in your development. Most consulting firms are very development-oriented, and partners are willing to help anyone who is proactive - in my case, partners offered to write my recs. That being said, you have to make it happen - you can't sit back and expect people to ask what your interests are, and if they can write a letter for you.
This is your future - swing for the fences! At least TRY to get recs from partners, and then if you can't you can look to managers. I'm sure that most schools will say they're more concerned with quality than source of your recs, but I call BS on anyone who says that a high-quality letter from a partner isn't viewed more favorably than a letter of similar quality from an EM-type. Also, if you prep them appropriately (i.e., provide enough time / background), your recommenders will write you good letters - any partner from a consulting firm understands how important these are and likely does them regularly.
Fully agree that the same letter from a partner will carry more weight than from an EM-type. No doubt about that.
My point to the OP is simply to focus on being a rock star and that will take care of most of it. The focus should be on growth and development, not finding people to write you a letter a few years from now. The networking angle is important, but in many places, doing a good job naturally sets you up for those beneficial relationships better than trolling for them.
I had a project where the partner showed up on site for 2 days in total out of however many months we were there. Needless to say, the only exposure I had with him was one day when he asked me to set up a meeting cause our project manager was leaving the firm midway during the project. He had better things to worry about the other days (like selling more work).
That's also the project where I learned the trade, built my reputation for future projects and did good enough to get top rating and get promoted. I used the project manager's recommendation and got interviews everywhere I applied this year (R2, so don't know about admission).
Partners in my practice are more worried about selling than delivering, and that may change the exposure level somewhere else. And some are just more involved with delivery than others (like my current one, where 3 of them are trying to hump on everything I do). But trying to suck their dick from Day 1 makes you look like a dbag to rest of the team (and we have them). A good recommendation takes few hours to type it out. So manage your expectations on who has that much spare time for an analyst.
Thanks for all the great input, guys. I will definitely take it into consideration looking forward.
B-School Application Recommendations (Originally Posted: 12/17/2012)
It seems there are few places on the web to get sound advice on your letters of recommendation for the MBA application, and I've been working on culling the best of the web on this subject. I also added some tips for making a template to put together for your recommenders. Convinced Poets & Quants to publish the article, and here are the first few paragraphs with a link to the rest. Hope it's useful!
Wrangling Recommendations Article from P&Q With round two deadlines just around the corner, thousands of aspiring MBA students are asking their bosses, former bosses, senior colleagues, and even clients for recommendations to business school. Some might argue that it’s already too late to hit up a busy executive for a recommendation, but if you plan and execute right, the amount of time remaining should be reasonable.
Don’t Overthink You can find many opinions about how to strategize the recommendations all over the web. I offer three simple words: Don’t overthink it. Admissions officers have come right out on their websites and told students what they are looking for in a recommendation, and I encourage you to take them at their word.
A classic article on this subject can be found on the Stanford Graduate School of Business website. Kirsten Moss, the GSB’s former director of MBA admissions, offered clear advice for all applicants, not just Stanford. She purports that the recommendation is “about about bringing this person alive. How, if they left tomorrow, would the organization have been touched in a unique way.”
Note too, that admission committee members reading your letters of recommendation don’t want everything to be stellar. If all the recommenders say that the applicant is wonderful for the same reasons, or if the student looks like a demi-god, “it loses its authenticity.” says Stanford’s Moss.
the full article is here: http://poetsandquants.com/2012/11/21/wrangling-great-recommendations/
Betsy, great post! What are your suggestions for schools that require two recommenders? For example two partners at my firm are willing to recommend me, yet should both recommenders be professional in nature or should I combine the work recommendation with a community service recommendation?
Thanks in advance!
There's no reason why you cannot have two recommendations from work if you think that will give the admissions committee more reasons to admit you. For example if you worked on a project with one supervisor, and did well because of your teamwork skills, and worked with another supervisor and did well because you handled a client diplomatically, then you get a nice, well-rounded view of you.
Here is what Dee Leopold (head of Harvard Business School's admissions board) has said about work recommendations (check out her blog posts -- they are really helpful)
we are fine if ALL the recommendations come from the workplace. Even from the same firm. We are not trying to add the additional hurdle of needing to hear a voice from every phase of your past and present life.
Now this is the case for a school that asks for 3(!) recommendations, so you can see that it's really what will show you best and most clearly.
Thanks for the question
how long ago is too long ago to source a recommender? past couple years i used my current supervisor and my old boss who i stayed in touch with ( who i was 4 and 5 years removed from) and worked on some community projects with now and then but otherwise that relationship only lasted a year while i was a near full time intern in college still. this year i am using my old supervisor from trading (former 'current supervisor, less than one year removed) and my current supervisor from the startup(who is also a former senior trader from trading).
i know that Sloan says they care more about what youve done in your past three years, would you consider this to be equally true for having more recent recommenders if at all possible, especially ones coming from true 'full time' employment'?
Yes, I believe the more recent the recommendation and the more full-time, the better. But it's always a judgment call.It I The idea situation is to have a recent direct supervisor who worked with you day-to-day. But if that isn't possible, the next best thing would be someone else who has seen your recent performance up close. They are completely ok with it not being a supervisor as long as you explain it. And you only need a sentence or two, nothing long and drawn out.
I think a five-year old community project relationship that is not currently ongoing might be a stretch, but I'd need to know more. I think the choices you made above make sense.
Good luck!!
Betsy,
Thanks for the feedback, I think I'll be ok then.
you are welcome -- and best of luck!
awesome :) yes that is something that ive definitely realized and im going to do my best to ask that my trading supervisor focus my quantitative / leadership ability and then my start up supervisor push my team/creative/cultural sensitivity and international-ity sides so that i have a well rounded, differentiated picture between the two
I've hammered this in the article (as have admissions directors worldwide), and you probably know this, but make sure they mention specific events, for example, "when ShorttheWorld was dealing with a new client who had been burned by previous encounters with a competitor firm, he presented xyz alternatives and walked through the complex solution in the following way.... bringing in such-and-such a team member. As a result, the client, who we had been chasing for the last year, always called on Short first to bounce new ideas, giving us an insight that we didn't have before...."
Make sense?
MBA Recommendations (Originally Posted: 11/10/2011)
I took a look in the search and couldn't find anything.
Can you guys help explain the recommendation process? It looks like most schools require 2-3 recommendations. But they also require the recommend-ER to go to their own website (whereas in HS the teachers could just write 1 and you can photocopy it to schools).
Is it standard practice to give your managers a list of 6-10 schools and make them do the recommendation 6-10 times?
Yes. You seem to understand it correctly. The process is a pain in the ass, and probably by design. Some schools ask questions that are very specific and very different from others, and they hope/expect that your recommender will take the time to answer the questions completely.
Fwiw, 6-10 is a lot to apply to. I applied to 7, and had 5 different recommenders since I didn't feel very comfortable asking any one recommender to write more than 5 recommendations. They just take too much time to write well.
wow that's just nuts! okay thanks for confirming for me =\ i guess i will need to build more relationships than expected
Or just apply to fewer schools. If you really do your diligence, you should be able to narrow your list down to 4-5 schools, max. 1-2 stretch schools, 1-2 "sweet spot" schools, and 0-1 safety schools.
I'm applying next year (for fall 2013 matriculation) and will only be applying to 2-3 schools.
Applications take a ton of time. 3-4 would be my recommendation. Don't underestimate how much time you can spend editing essays.
Hm interesting recommendation.
I think my only fear is I don't have a ton of visibility on what schools are attainable for me (hence my other thread LOL, thanks for your advice on that too compbanker).
For example, I would like to apply to H/W/S + columbia + booth and that's already 5, without having any "safety" schools in the mix. Add 2 more for backup and it'll be 7....
But just to stay on topic-- do people generally ask their current managers? Would it be too much to ask a manager from 3 or 4 years ago to spend 2 hours doing 3 recommendations?
do the higher tier schools your first round then do the 'sweet spot' schools 2nd round. IE MBA business schools">m7 your first round, then top 10/top 15/top 20 (and of course scale back depending on stats etc) as you go
ohhh i never thought about not applying to them at the same time. good recommendation!
are there any general ideas on if any round is harder/easier than the other?
Applying to MBA: Recommendations (Originally Posted: 08/10/2012)
I play on applying to 5-6 reach schools. My question is, how many recommendations is it reasonable to ask 1 person to do for me? I am planning on asking my manager, we have a good working relationship, but there is no way he has time to write me six 1-2 page recommendations.
I understand most people either ghostwrite or just have the recommender write 1 and apply it to all the schools, but even with that, is it reasonable to give him all 6? I'm sure there will still be some forms to fill out and small things to tailor for each one, even if he only write 1 general recommendation.
Thanks
i see no problem with you tweaking it a little bit to fit each applications' recommendations as long as you have his permission.
Be wary of writing the recommendation yourself. Seriously. They will be able to tell that you wrote it by the writing style. There are many resources out there for figuring out how to manage the recommendations process. A lot of people have been down this path before, and I believe there are a few threads on WSO as well. I wrote an article that includes lots of links and resources about the best practices in recommendations: http://masteradmissions.com/wp/2011/09/13/wrangling-recommendations-for…
I've quoted admissions directors from top schools and also pointed you to some classic how-to web-links.
As for asking someone to do 6, you are right, it's a lot. However, after doing two, you will see that you will have covered all of the questions, so the marginal effort shouldn't be that great. It will simply be a question of managing your recommender, and that in itself is an Olympic sport.
If you have any more q's please come visit my thread, Business School Q&A with Betsy Massar -- happy to help where I can!
Best regards, Betsy
Employers Do Not Allow Recommendations for B-School (Originally Posted: 02/19/2014)
So...I just had a chat with my manager and found out that my company does not allow writing recommendations for b-school (or any program for that matter). The same goes for my previous company as well. Both are in the Fortune 500. I know that the strongest recommendations b-schools look for are from your direct manager, so who should I get them from? Will this be a potential red flag when I do start to apply?
Ouch. You're in a tough spot. You can obviously explain your situation in the optional essay, which AdComs will understand, but that doesn't help you figure out who to get recommdendations from and how to make them at least a marginal strength in your application. A few thoughts, none of which are that great:
-Previous manager that has left your current company. This could be anyone that you've worked for at your current job that would be decent to write a recommendation for you and would be able to speak to specifics. Would probably be the best way to get a rec for your current role. -Manager from previous company that's still there. I assume they would not be subject to the same rules since you're not an employee at that company anymore, so that could potentially work if you still have a good relationship there. -If you haven't already, this is all the more inspiration to dominate an extra-curricular activity. If I had to apply to GSB, or if HBS had the third rec this year, I was going to use the Director of the non-profit I have spent a lot of time working with. He woul;d have been able to speak to a lot of strong things (initiative, ability to fund raise, dedication to the program for a number of years...). This shows both skills and verifies your community involvement, which a number of people tend to embellish on. -Have people at your company gone on to b-school? If so, I would contact them to see what they did. Maybe this rule is just a written rule that people don't necessarily follow. Or maybe it can be waived if you're upfront. I have no idea, but just a thought.
Hopefully, some combination of what I listed above can get you to two recs for each school. I would definitely recommend reaching out to some admissions consultants to see what they have done in situations like this. As you get closer (once admissions season dies down a bit), I would also recommend reaching out to a couple AdCom members at your target schools. They have seen and dealt with every issue imaginable, especially with recs, so they also may be able to provide some direction.
If I may ask, what industry are you in? Didn't know some companies prohibit it altogether as a policy, wow...
I am not saying you shouldn't trust your manager, but look for the exact writing of the policy somewhere. You should confirm exactly what the company policy prohibits.
Officiis in voluptate ipsam illum. Eos nulla facere eum magni vero ut. Magnam tenetur esse modi beatae placeat. Quo ut amet dolores ullam numquam repellat. Optio odit optio consequatur laudantium atque animi iusto. Perferendis magni reiciendis temporibus qui laborum odit.
Eveniet praesentium doloribus temporibus soluta. Cupiditate in deserunt animi quia. Amet voluptatum beatae expedita. Vero distinctio aut veritatis ea sunt qui. Et ut est qui vel. Qui eum hic odit ut dolore eius.
Officiis quae ea ut cupiditate. Cupiditate et asperiores beatae id quis.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Ipsa illo reprehenderit beatae tenetur aliquid. Tenetur aspernatur praesentium id vel sit cupiditate. Quia est ut dolorem autem et eum.
Quia accusamus quae ea eius nam culpa. Et nam est totam quaerat. Temporibus dolorum ullam nemo.
Totam in eaque dolorum. Voluptatibus qui doloribus facere est voluptas. Voluptas ut fugiat et voluptatem eius.