I've recently accepted an offer for BB IBD and I'm looking to position myself for placement into a top group.
I have set up phone calls with bankers in a number of different groups, and I'm wondering what types of questions I should be asking.
Ie, should I focus on culture/people and stay away from discussing prestige/perceived quality of the group?
Thanks
| +169 | The "Not So Obvious" things that get you a return offer? | 20 | 2h | |
| +101 | Is my life over after not getting GS? | 25 | 1h | |
| +65 | Best IB group on the Street | 27 | 3h | |
| +56 | BIG FOUR ARE PARADISE | 15 | 4h | |
| +49 | Thoughts and tips on how to speak like an investment banker. | 25 | 5h | |
| +46 | Tell me one good reason why Jefferies isn’t going to be a top bank in the next 5 years | 22 | 7h | |
| +36 | UBS Outlook | 28 | 1d | |
| +35 | Georgetown Placement for 2024 and 2025 | 21 | 6d | |
| +34 | How to deal with egotistical team? | 6 | 3d | |
| +33 | Highest Paid Bankers in Toronto? | 51 | 3h |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
Focus on them, the culture, and the people. And if you can (depending on your location), take a trip and do this in person rather than over the phone. And most importantly, don't say that you really want to work in their group if you aren't ranking them first- people will get pissed.
The best time / positioning to jockey for primo group placement is before you accept the offer. Generally, the people you interviewed with are extending you an offer and will try to do whatever is in their power to make you most inclined to accept their offer and decline the offers of their competitors.
So #1- you need to communicate that you're deciding between 2 or more offers and #2- you need to communicate that their bank is your #1 choice but your only hesitation is that you are really interested in X and the other firms indicted they will place you into such group
You obviously can't be obnoxious about it. But thats generally the best way to ensure you get into the group you want. You'll also likely be asked "ok, so if I could guarantee your placement in X group, you would accept our offer on the spot?" So be prepared for that.
I agree with this strategy stated above - but I think these days BBs are less inclined to put into writing guaranteed group placement - just because everyone wants the top groups - I've only seen this happen to candidates they really want - just because you have multiple offers and the recruiters are saying they'll do everything they can to pull for you into the group you want, it doesn't mean you will get it - the best strategy is to talk to as many people in the group as possible and always ask for more contacts in the group and work your way into more senior people - if you have a MD or 2 pulling for you, then it's pretty much done deal... but obvi takes a LOT of work...
You'd have to be an idiot to say you want it in writing. Talk to a few people and get them to try to sell you on accepting by offering your choice of group placement. No one is going to put it in writing for you. Ideally, one of your interviewers are in the group you're interested in and they also happen to be one of the people championing to get your hired. The candidate I like most I generally sell on the idea of my group being the best one for him/her and we give an offer I make a point to offer to do all I can in terms of group placement. Then I tell the more senior people in my group or on the recruiting committee that Jane Doe is a top candidate that we definitely need to get to accept our offer and she's expressed a very strong interest in X group.
What's the best strategy once you've already accepted the offer? Since your only bartering chip (choosing another firm) is lost, I'd assume you've got basically no leverage.
Also, unfortunately I didn't interview with anyone from the group I'm most interested in.
Call or email the recruiters and asked to be put in touch with some analysts in that group.
^--- What? No.
No one is going to give a shit about you once you've already accepted the offer. Thats pretty much the way it works, you're the apple of everyone's eye until you accept and then they go back to not knowing your name.
If you've already accepted, hopefully there was one person who really took a liking to you along this process and you can reach out to him/her and try to get them to put in a word for you in terms of group placement. Thats the only person that knows you and hopefully gives enough of a shit to bother helping you out.
Don't be too cynical Marcus... I did that last year and I know juniors who are doing that currently - it's worked out fairly well so far... I'm not saying it'll guarantee a placement into that group, but definitely a good way to meet people in a group you don't have contacts in...
How do IBD groups rank analysts for group selection? (Originally Posted: 06/15/2008)
I was wondering whether anybody had any input on this. Is it just based on CV books? (Pre)-training test results? Other parameters? Any advice would be really appreciated! Thanks
Everything and anything. We used to use kids that were summers in our group that were returning to report back to us on who was smart, good with excel, and fun to be around. And of course, we ranked based on our 3 on 2 interviews. You'd be surprised how much pull the analysts have, at least in my old group. The analysts and younger associates did all the interviews.
Thanks for this Gametheory. Any thoughts on how useful it is to reach out frequently to people in the group in which you're interested? It seems like a lot of the decision-making is based on opinions gleaned from other people (e.g returning summers etc.) - though I have heard that it is often people at the analyst level who can really make a difference.
IB Group Selection of your choice (Originally Posted: 06/11/2009)
I worked last year as a summer analyst at a top middle market bank(HLHZ, Jefferies, etc). The program was generalist so we worked in various groups in IB. In a month i will be starting as a full time analyst at that same bank. There is a particular group that i really enjoyed working with. How can i get that particular group, besides simply networking with them? Since each group will be selling itself to the incoming analysts, how can i get that group without hurting relations with the guys i worked with in the other groups?
bump ... anyone?
bump again
ummm ... I could use some help here. I might be pressured into joining a group that I am not interested in ... any advice?
you just need to chat with the members of the group you want to be in and hope for the best. Be able to talk intelligently about what's going in their industry to help your cause.
If I were you, I would speak privately with the particular group and really express an interest in them, and let them know that you are going to rank them as your top choice - assuming you know, speak candidly, and talk about the experiences you have shared over the summer. Regarding the other groups, network with them just fine, and don't even mention your choices to them - just say that you've definitely enjoyed the group, be lighthearted, it's not a big deal, trust me. And just close by saying that you haven't made a final decision yet to the other groups. No feelings hurt, just relax, and work on the group you want. Congratulations on the offer.
IBanker www.BankonBanking.com Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking
Your experience in the group selection process? (Originally Posted: 02/02/2013)
Can anyone who has been through the group selection process for a summer internship tell me more about their experience?
How were groups selected, how hard is it to get your top pick, what can you do to improve your chances, etc
also interested
from a quick search I found these which sound relevant:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/jp-morgan-summer-analyst-program-… http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/citi-group-selection-process-in-l… http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/group-selection-at-bb-ibd http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/gs-tmt-ms-ma-mortals-allowed http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/citi-group-selection-process
...there's a lot in our archives if you put in the time to search.
Thanks, Patrick
Bank Group Placement (Originally Posted: 09/07/2014)
Hi Guys,
I hear a lot on this forum about about group placement and where analysts at certain groups have gone over the years. But how exactly does one find where a group has placed previously?
Obviously one way is to ask seniors, but this seems risky as it could show a lack of commitment to the role. Is there any other places in which to look?
Thanks.
You could take a search through Linkedin to get some examples. It's easier for smaller banks, and you might not be able to find many people in each specific group at a large BB bank, but worth a try if you're curious.
Group Placement Strategies (Originally Posted: 02/27/2009)
What are good strategies for being placed into desired groups? I've heard a lot about reaching out to analysts, but what should be advertised? Should we show that we're fun people, that we know a lot about the industry, that we're eager to learn, etc.?
Also, what are some good questions to ask-- Dealflow, culture, hours? "What makes a good XX group analyst?" "Why did you join XX group?" "What are the best/most challenging aspects of being in group XX"?
Thanks in advance!
You might want to "warm up" by outreaching to analysts, etc. but really the person in charge of deciding who gets in the group is the intern sponsor/staffer for the department. S/he is who you really want to impress.
The questions that you mentioned above are pretty safe, but there is some risk of getting canned responses. Treat this like an interview, but in conversation form -- you need to show that you can be a good fit for the group. If this is a coverage team, show how you're interested in that industry, discuss the deals that they executed, etc. Just make sure you don't come across as a tool.
Follow the MD into the bathroom, lean over be like is that all? I am a BSD see...you want me in your group...works everytime
Group Selection Process for Full-Time (Originally Posted: 03/17/2007)
wondering if anyone has gone through this for full-time and could shed some light on how the process works. is it very competitive? similar to an extended interview into another group? is it just based on fit? or they still look at the ol' resume
for my BB, we are allowed to rank based on preferences, and the groups rank us in turn, and then it's all based on matching numbers and people up. someone from HR said that you usually get your first choice, and always get your second.. now i am wondering if this is crock since if M&A is so great, everyone would rank M&A as #1...
We do try our best to give you one of your top choices, but there's a reason we ask you to rank all groups. The lower half is mostly to figure out which groups you DON'T want to be in (if you list Latin American M&A as 10, chances are you won't go there), but I would not count on getting 1 or 2.
how does it work when you're a returning summer analyst? do you have a great chance of receiving one of your top choices?
Obviously, if you liked the group you worked in over the summer (and if you got offer, they must have liked you) I would say you have a good chance of going to that group. Otherwise, networking over the summer in other groups is the best way to transition...my $.02
thanks genghis.. after reading several of your postings, seems that you are a pretty senior guy. thanks for dropping by this forum to help out us junior monkeys.
if possible, can you tell us a little bit on how the rankings work on your side of the table?
i heard you must be outstanding on the exams in the graduate training program. The analysts with the highest score can choose....
at most banks look at scores on exams and invite students (not technically allowed) to the floor to meet people and take them out for drinks during happy hours. Most people that got into M&A had scores of 90 or above on both accounting and finance. Most also had a finance/accounting undergraduate degree except those that went to Harvard and Chicago.
While I don't think it's fair, groups certain try to pick their people.
at most banks look at scores on exams and invite students (not technically allowed) to the floor to meet people and take them out for drinks during happy hours. Most people that got into M&A had scores of 90 or above on both accounting and finance. Most also had a finance/accounting undergraduate degree except those that went to Harvard and Chicago.
While I don't think it's fair, groups certain try to pick their people.
geez.. the pressure just doesn't end huh..
does anyone have/know of any good resources to prepare for the exams? or does flipping open my financial statement analysis and corpfin textbooks are all i need to do.. any help will VERY VERY MUCH SO be appreciated
..or does anyone have possession of said exams?..
you're ahead of most analysts by exam time....sad to say, but that's way it is.....there's only so much time that analysts w/o previous background can study/learn in 2 weeks before the exam.
as business major, you'll have the experience from classes....
bump.... is all of this still true today?
Choosing a Desk (Originally Posted: 12/23/2013)
deleted
I heard that JP has strong credit desk...and i'd stay away from commodities tbh. When is your BAML s&t superday?
Group Selection - Improving chances? (Originally Posted: 06/27/2008)
What are ways to improve your chances at getting into a group that you want? Anyone have any good do's and dont's about networking events during training for group selection purposes?
I did a search on this topic, but all I really got was talk to people in the group beforehand (don't think that will be possible for me) and do well on your training tests. My question could apply to both bankers and non-bankers, so anyone's advice is welcome.
Bump
What determines what group you're placed in? (Originally Posted: 05/04/2012)
BB made me give them a list of my group preferences. Any idea what determines where I go?
They said its not even guaranteed you will get into any of the groups you listed.
Generally, the product/industry groups jockey with HR to give them an allocation of analysts. Every group typically claims they need more. Eventually management determines how many analysts each group will get (based on attrition, work volume, etc.). Most banks have some form of meet and greet process where groups get to meet candidates. Your preferences will either be used to put you in front of groups you listed during the meet and greet, or to assign you to one of the groups you listed that has analyst needs.
Multiple Groups at BB (Originally Posted: 09/21/2010)
All,
Got interview at a lower-tier BB (DB/UBS/C/WF) in NYC. Was asked top group preferences by HR when the interview was being arranged; responded with TMT and LevFin.
Had interview with TMT and went really well - haven't heard from LevFin but I'd take it over TMT. How should I proceed vis-a-vis asking HR about setting it up without slimming my chances of getting TMT (I'd still take TMT > nothing, but LevFin > TMT)?
Considering you don't have an offer to fall back on, take what you can get and leave it at that. There is way too much tail risk with asking HR for an interview with LevFin, especially after you said TMT went so well.
Gekko - always appreciate your comments, thanks again.
Have fun at Wells Fargo
Group Placement: 1st year IB analyst (Originally Posted: 06/23/2013)
A lot of people I talk with tell me to pick a group based on how well you get a long with the guys that are a part of it. 1) How can you know what the guys in a group are like without ever working with them yet? 2) What other factors should be considered?
How much weight should be placed on your exit opportunities when picking a group as a 1st year analyst. Would a particular group (eg. FIG or Lev Fin) have a higher probability of landing you a career with a PE firm or hedge fund than others? Its so early in my career that I have no clue what I want to do when my analyst role is complete...but I also don't want to close doors before I even have a chance to decide.
As with anything, there is a balance. Don't go work for a bunch of people you hate, because you'll have a poor experience and that will affect your ranking. That said, I would lean towards pref-ing the groups that have the best historical placement, because your group absolutely affects your ability to land solid exits.
Agree with Northsider. Also don't go into a niche industry group if you have no interest in the sector even if you love the people in the group. You will most likely get hosed come PE recruiting time.
IBD Group Placement Opportunities (Originally Posted: 03/18/2010)
Guys:
I have a final-round interview for IBD (off-cycle due to unique situation) at a BB soon...and I was informed that I will meet with a few specific groups for the final round. My question is this, is my only opportunity for an offer pertaining to these few specific groups? I'm wondering if I will potentially have a chance at other groups outside of the few that I will be meeting with during this final round...or if these few groups are the only groups available to me.
Is this how all final round interviews are, meaning you meet and interview with only a few groups, but group placement isn't necessarily determined by this?
I know this is hard to definitively answer, so I'm just hoping for some opinions. Thanks a lot guys.
It seems like it would be since usually off-cycle interviewing is for spots people reneged. You don't have the same freedom a fall recruit might have. Also, it depends on the bank. Sometimes they interview for a specific spot and location from the start. If I were you I wouldn't be so concerned with trying to get a different group than the ones you'll meet. You should feel lucky you have a shot at a BB so late in the year!
Thanks nelly. It definitely doesn't have anything to do with reneged or position opportunities relative to need though, I know that much, trust me. So with that being said, would this change things at all? And yes, you are right, I feel lucky to just be at this point, but I wonder if I will have any shot at other groups just like the other incoming analysts. Would most FT analysts already be placed in groups at this point?
I'm pretty sure most analysts are already locked for FT 2010 but given that you are in, as you say, such a unique position, anything's possible. If you really, really, really want another group ask HR in a crafty way so that it doesn't seem like you're too eager. Maybe something like "Hi Sally, I was wondering if the groups I'll be interviewing with are the ones looking for another analyst or if my group selection will happen at a later time".
Ratione incidunt dicta explicabo commodi. Placeat asperiores rerum dolorem expedita. Repellat cum quas incidunt sed.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Fuga et eius harum asperiores laborum sit. Ut sed sunt qui illo ducimus delectus quia. Nobis vero soluta quo cumque consectetur reiciendis quis. Aspernatur est eligendi qui fugiat deleniti consequatur error fugit. Quidem rerum aut eum sit. Itaque incidunt qui odit eligendi. Rem iste saepe eaque ipsa delectus qui.
Ratione aliquam libero explicabo eveniet ipsam. Accusamus aut recusandae ut aut. Dolore distinctio dolor et atque et eos dolor.
Excepturi debitis dolorem sit repudiandae. Eos eveniet molestiae consequuntur quos deserunt sequi. Corrupti maxime suscipit ullam maxime. Debitis debitis quam veritatis.
Veniam optio in occaecati facilis possimus molestias. Aut laboriosam sint minus aut dicta quo. Laborum tempora aperiam doloribus aspernatur. Temporibus quo vel reprehenderit ullam.
Tempora est voluptatem quisquam distinctio soluta dicta dolorem beatae. Qui ut natus itaque modi nobis ratione nesciunt. Sunt aut sed iste aliquam eius fuga harum magni. Corrupti accusantium quasi asperiores odit et.