This goes to show you that you do not have to raise the dead in order to get a spot at HBS. As long as you kick ass at whatever you decide to do, you will have a chance.
http://www.hbs.edu/mba/perspectives/students/2011/ccoto.html
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Unfortunately that is not the norm unless you are an URM.
WOW... but extremely rare
he was a bank teller while at college, we all do shitty jobs whilst working at college.
Dude, you should probably read more carefully ah.
Judging by the fact that a shocking number of people turn their nose up at BBs with incredible salaries for undergrads, I am going to generalize and say that the same number of people have never worked a shitty job, in college or otherwise.
Eh...he is a URM and accomplished more in his respective field than most of us will.. at the same age. So shocking, remotely.
Haha, I actually know Carlos - he's a great guy and absolutely deserves to be here. To be honest, I find the fact that people are labeling him as a "URM" to explain his admission to be kind of disrespectful. It's not just that he was a bank teller, it's what he was able to accomplish at HSBC - actually read his profile, he introduced innovations that increased floor sales 120%, was given the HSBC highest honor award and was promoted to Assistant VP.
You can be a janitor and get into HBS - as long as you're a janitor with a habit of leadership. It's not where you worked, it's what you accomplished while you were that that gets you in. The OP hit the nail right on the head,
Tell us more. I'm all ears.
I agree with above poster. This guy wasn't just a bank teller, he actually actually did some impressive shit, which I actually doubt many here would be able to do in the same position.
Impressive story!
HSBC is considered to have among the best pools of junior managers in the world, and to be recognised as the best of those is extremely impressive.
Honestly, the LEAST impressive thing there is that he went to HBS. Saying he shows it is easy to get in to HBS is stupid, but saying he got in for being an URM is both stupid and racist.
Yeah, right. Paint your skin black. Buy a pair of fake boobs. Adcom will suddenly decide that you have outstanding leadership qualities. That is just the honest truth.
Here we go.
So the key to success isn't competency or skill, it's black skin and silicon? If you have a job of any significance your employment should be terminated and they should make you mop the floors.
Actually even all the minorities i know at hbs have very impressive backgrounds. This guy certainly has an impressive background; I dont see how anyone could say otherwise.
I thinnk being a minority makes a night and day difference for law and med school though (and undergrad).
I agree on most of the people I have met at top b schools are very impressive..... URM is only a small pool and they are just as impressive as the norm
Very impressive and even inspirational story. I am sure he didnt want to be a bank teller but he took the ball and ran with it. His work ethic is off the charts and he deserves everything that has come his way.
Honestly, deeming his achievements as supplementary to him being a 'URM' and not the other way around is offensive.
the interesting thing is urm has backfired in a way that genuinely able individuals are now heavily discounted if they are urm.
nevertheless kudos to this guy.
I think that at the top schools, so few people get in that ppl are impressive usually no matter what. If the admit rate for white guys is 10%, and that for blacks is 20%, at a school like HBS, with a huge and diverse applicant pool, only the best will get in anyway.
For med and law, which are heavily numbers based, I think the minorities genuinely get a huge advantage because they usually dont have those requisite numbers. But b-school looks at soft factors, and as this guy shows, a work ethic and bit of luck can get you in.
Something I've noticed having gone thorugh both the med and b-school admissions process.
He went to baruch and then became a bank teller and that gets him into HBS? If he wasn't URM he would still be making $15/hr and trying to get me to open a cecking account. What work ethic 09grad?, he works 9-5 with no weekends.
There is someone at HBS with a 490 GMAT, so nothing is too surprising. They want accomplished people who have (often) done something unique. URM is a boost, no question about it, but not nearly to the degree it is in other programs (law, undergrad).
Assuming this guy got in because he is a URM is simply offensive, and is a significant reason why some URMs are against affirmative action. And I can't say I blame them. Imagine you are in his shoes, and you were well-qualified to be admitted, but everyone around you whispered that it was because you were a URM. All because of his race.
And as outlined in the article, while he might have been a bank teller, he was a damn good one and is currently a AVP/VP. Which, correct me if I am wrong, places him around/above the median salary range/career progression for an HBS admit/entrant.
Cut the guy some slack - I am sure he hears enough of this shit as it is (or, even worse, doesn't hear it but knows people are thinking it). For the record - I am a white male.
A bank teller makes $12 an hour, an AVP bank teller makes oh I don't know, lets say $18-20 or let's be crazy and go as far as to say $25 an hour. That's not median anything, he was working in the typical job that an average student from Baruch would get, except because he was a minority he was miraculously able to get into HBS. It just makes HBS look bad more than anything else IMO.
Source for AVP salary in retail banking? I admittedly don't know but would guess 60-80K. Could be wrong.
Okay, I am NO fan of HBS (I find it embodies much of what's wrong with the MBA culture - it actively seeks to snatch up good would-be doctors and HELPFUL people by offering them $ and prestige, and turn them into bankers and consultants and marketing folks), but a couple of thoughts:
plenty of intangibles affect your admissions chances. One person says URM, but if I told you that recently HBS took someone without a college degree and a laughable GMAT... and then told you he was a white male, what would you say? Go look it up.
Have any of you ever actually tried to convince an organization to spend money and change its hierarchy and job descriptions? Do NOT underestimate how difficult it would be to do that a place like HSBC New York.
Think HSBC New York during this time frame: (until recently) British-headquartered bank with its profit centers focused on Far East Asia. This is not a high-margin kind of business - this is commercial banking, where y ou have the advantage of size that compensates for a small spread. Announced MASSIVE property lending losses in the US not too long after splashing money around acquiring a US lender. FAR behind its main money-center bank rivals Citi and JPMorganChase in THEIR turf: New York City.
Those of you work in boutiques: remember how difficult it is to get promoted sometimes if you're not in the head office? The lack of decision-making power, the poor control, the lack of visibility? Imagine working for a struggling part of a business a continent and an ocean away from the centers of power.
Imagine pushing for a fundamental change in the way you perceive a position that traditionally does not draw much human capital (bank tellers). These folks are not perceived as being high-potential, and bank managers know this. Yet he managed to convince the bank to redefine the position and then backed it up with QUICK results, and he did it by being close to the marketplace (ie. the consumers) and figuring out HOW to reach them. This is NOT easy - he created margin where there was cost - and this makes a difference in business.
He has a clear sense of what he wants to do with his career - that sort of thinking, leadership and execution is well valued at management consultancies. I am positive that the top consultancies would've been very eager to interview this guy (MBB to be sure, but also Oliver Wyman, Deloitte, Monitor, Booz - etc). This works out perfectly for him. They are ALL a big raise for him in terms of salary and bonus - even the Big 4 advisory - so he is the target audience for b-school (ie. he actually gets something tangible out of it, rather than the two-year vacation that PE kiddies are looking for). Plus, he studied finance as an undergrad - he's learned the basics of business in a technical sense, so the "case method" fluff at HBS works out just perfectly, and HBS gives him (and employers) the brand that Baruch doesn't. And while HSBC's brand may not inspire any of you folks on WSO, you can bet that the endless slew of big commercial banks (who DO respect HSBC as a juggernaut rival) - which are the firms that actually hire management consultancies - will DEFINITELY be interested in a consultant who can turn cost into profit in THEIR industry. The guy has picked out a smart career path that fully fits with the MBA proposition. Check with Columbia Business School - that's their most important essay question: what are your career goals? His works out perfectly. Him being Hispanic only comes up in his LT goals, but frankly, they check out. Long term goals need to be believable based on the calculus performed on your short term goals, plus have an emotional hook that makes them real for you. Frankly, he's got it together.
The way I see it, he's earned his spot at a good business school.
Agree 100%.
Your an idiot. He went to Baruch, graduated middle of his class, became a "good" bank teller so he could count money super fast. Stop making it into something it isn't, its a URM quota not a great story.
Your probably one of those idiots who looks at 2 black dots and a red line and tries to figure out what magical mystery the Tina addicted artist was conjuring. The answering is nothing, the artist is just addicted to fucking Tina and wanted to draw some bullshit.
Yeah, you're a moron.
hahahaha
.
urm
Fo' Real?
LMAO love the sig! Never seen u jelly written in arabic before.
hatersgonnahate.jpg
I don't know this guy, so I'm not going to resort to personal critiques. He seems like a savvy hard-working dude, and I'm sure he'll do fine in the business world, especially with that HBS pedigree and amazing network.
Having said that, I'm just not sure if a white or asian male with the EXACT same credentials would have been able to get into HBS.
If you jelly and you know it clap your hands, If you jelly and you know it clap your hands, If you jelly and you know it, you use racism to show it, If you jelly and you know it, clap your hands...
I'm not going to comment on this man's race nor ethnicity, because unlike most white people in this country, I fully understand the hardship that most minority groups go through to even graduate High School, much less University. Anyway, as one of the above posters pointed out earlier, there is a white dude that went to HBS without an undergraduate degree (WTF) and a low GMAT score, and is currently working at a PE firm. Does this make sense to you? At least this bank teller worked hard to reach where he is at today, it just so happens to be HBS. So, don't be jelly, be jolly motherfucker!
Read this shit: http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2006/5/22/bushs-personal-aide-to-enro…
And this shit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Gottesman
[quote=Antsman]I'm not going to comment on this man's race nor ethnicity, because unlike most white people in this country, I fully understand the hardship that most minority groups go through to even graduate High School, much less University. Anyway, as one of the above posters pointed out earlier, there is a white dude that went to HBS without an undergraduate degree (WTF) and a low GMAT score, and is currently working at a PE firm. Does this make sense to you? At least this bank teller worked hard to reach where he is at today, it just so happens to be HBS. So, don't be jelly, be jolly motherfucker!
Read this shit: http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2006/5/22/bushs-personal-aide-to-enro…
And this shit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Gottesman[/quote]
We've discussed this multiple times. Blake was eminently qualified to go to HBS, and HBS was lucky that he chose to attend. Do you really think he wouldn't have been able to get a PE position without HBS? What exactly do you think David Rubenstein brings to Carlyle, if not his connections and political experience?
Or have standardized test scores and college degrees become a sine qua non for a generation petrified to move out of lockstep? Should Bill Gates be denied admission to HBS? Was Lincoln wrong to trust Grant?
Hold on a second, how is this guy eminently qualified to go to HBS? HBS has basic requirements that are needed to be met in order for any candidate to be accepted. One of those requirements is completing an undergraduate degree. Blake is a college dropout (never compare Blake to the likes of Michael Dell and Bill Gates unless you’re an idiot) and did not meet the basic requirements to be accepted to HBS, but no one talks about it. However, when a hard working individual, who just so happens to be Hispanic, gets accepted into the program, people shout URM advantage. I think it is racist and disrespectful.
Ok, so I mentioned that the guy currently works at a PE firm, and I'm pretty sure he could have gotten that job without going to HBS. But that's not the point; the point is that if this guy was a minority, all hell would break loose. Just look at how many people are giving Carlos shit for working hard and getting where he's at, don't you think it's because he's not white? This guy actually did what he was supposed to do, WTF!
An undergrad degree is not technically required by HBS.
Gottesman def. should be HBS.
On the note of Carlos, the following questions need to be answered:
How difficult was seeing the potential for change, and how difficult is it to implement? If he is surrounded only by idiots and the thing is incredibly inefficient, possibly anyone at a decent BB/consultancy could have had the same idea? Same Question needs to be answered for implementation. Did he fight the bureaucracy and really convince people despite hardship or not?
Are there lots of exceptional people in the HSBC rotational program and hence is getting the award difficult?
Does HBS state the absolute truth on its website or put a massive spin on things?
I don't know the answers to any of these, and hence will not take a stance. Could someone with more insight please share some of that insight(Yeah that is an aweful formulation but im laaazy)?
that's fucking boss. i'd take that kid over any IBD robot
Uh, is this all real? Do I live in a dream? Chase Bank was using the Tellers to drive sales way back in 2006. This was not an "original idea" in retail banking. HSBC was way behind the curve mainly because they are NOT based in the US and lag behind anyway. Again this was being done at Chase bank way back in 2006 or even earlier and I know that for a fact.
If anyone here doesnt think being a URM gives you +1000 when applying to Ivy league or MBA programs you really don't live in the real world.
With that said, it is freakin awesome he leveraged his teller job to the AVP role and got into HBS. Either way most IVY league schools undergrad/MBA programs just teach the kids to all think the same. Then when they go out into the real world and get those jobs they all do the same thing and we have another financial crash.
The sheep never learn.
OH and this Blake fellow, come on ! He was personal aide to the president of the US and you think he WOULDNT get into Harvard? Its the same idea when your dad went to harvard and now you want to go there but have terrible grads, what happens? Daddy-o gives them a 500k+ donation and POOF you are admitted to Harvard. Same concept, it just took a personal call from the Prez to get it done.
This kid got lucky, not saying he is not good at what he does but he got lucky. One that he is Jewish, second that his dad runs a very successful RE firm in Austin TX. 3rd that he grew up in Austin where his dad is probably friends with the Governor and 4th he dated his daughter.
whatever, thats life.
90% of success in life is luck.
Haha I saw this guy when I was browsing PE firms and was like WTF. Didn't know he had a wikipedia page. What a joke. http://www.berkshirepartners.com/bio_gottesman.shtml
I'm a URM, so I'm basically accepted to HBS right? Do I even have to write my GMAT?
I know a WHITE MALE who got a graduate research assistant position at MIT with no undergrad and then turn down a bunch of consulting offers that the faculty he was working with set up.
I think he was working in construction at the time but he suddenly peaced out i dont know where. He used to chill with Ben Affleck a lot too.
Thanks for sharing - what he did was pretty impressive. How many of us, if we started off as bank tellers, would have the positive attitude and tenacity to stick with it and be able to move on to a managerial role, and subsequently identify a revenue opportunity like that?
I'm sure most of us would have quit to try and find something else, or thought of it as a job that's beneath us and put in a half ass effort.
EDIT: Here's a more detailed story - http://sigmabaruch.org/ccoto.html
[quote=Kanon]Here's a more detailed story - http://sigmabaruch.org/ccoto.html[/quote] Nice
Props to the guy for a good idea and getting into HBS.
That said, low-level retail workers have been engaged in selling/upselling for almost my entire life ( from "Do you want fries with that?" to clothing retailer credit/membership rewards programs). I find it shocking that HSBC never bothered to utilize their tellers in the same way.
It's not like the guy pioneered the LBO, or virtually created the mortgage bond market like Ranieri.
I don't think it's a URM issue, but it certainly seems like in HBS's eyes it's better to excel at a shitty job than to merely be good at a great position. I almost find it condescending that there are lower standards for people coming from crappier jobs. Why bust my ass in banking/PE when I can pull a Kim Il Sung and give "on the spot guidance" for process improvement at some boring ass megacorp back office?
Generally, young people don't have the chance to implement new programs/change processes because they don't work for fucking idiots. It's not like finance kids are just a bunch of timid lockstep sissies who are afraid to take risks. No, they work for highly profitable companies with incredibly smart and talented managers who essentially print money.
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king...
+1
How come the people who question if a URM got in based entirely on merit are racist but the institutions and companies that use your race as a criteria for financial aid, acceptance or a job offer aren't?
Additionally, people just dismiss the possibility of race playing a role when they really shouldn't. Of course the guy is qualified, no body is saying otherwise...there are just questions surrounding whether he was the most qualified candidate or not.
People on the left love dropping the race card (as seen above) anytime there is a remote possibility that skin color played a part in a person's decision/statement/views...even if it could never be substantiated. It drives me nuts. Stop making minorities victims of your phantom discrimination claims, as it helps no one...ever.
The irony is that the left, and some members here on WSO, preach about living in a race-less society where everybody is color blind but at every turn they want to label minorities as such in an effort to provide them with a leg up and make things "fair".
I don't know, maybe I'm just hyper sensitive to hypocrisy and long for the days when people where responsible for their own actions, when they weren't a result of some injustice that said person endured at some point in their life.
Regards
Reverse discrimination is still discrimination.
If a white guy's [or God forbid, an asian] application and story were exactly the same, he would have about a 2 to 8% reduced chance of getting in compared to the other applicants. This guy did not get in because he is a URM, and although it did help, we're talking a very small advantage. We do not currently live in a 'color blind' society, and this is because history is not color blind: but that IS the goal. If someone argues that one race or another should be on top, well, that is the definition of racism.
Frankly, the fact that the assistant to a former president got in bothers me more: you can stick up for Bush if you want, but consider the legacy recommendations that Obama can make as well.....
good for him!! I'll be honest many people here bash Baruch for being a URM filled non-target, but many kids I've met in school are just like Carlos. They are super hard working first generation success stories. And by success I don't mean the size of their wallets. They don't come to school on their daddy's dime and spend their entire 4 years partying. Instead, they take the train and/or bus each day from home and also find time to intern during the school year.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/04/26/race_and_economics…
Regards
CPH, I am big Walther Williams and Thomas Sowell reader. I read all of Sowell's works when I was in high school.
I love how people on this forum point towards AA all the time, but can never ever enunciate a school or institutions specific policies. I am more of a factual person, so please, prove your argument.
Unfortunately the website www.commonsense.com has been shut down so I can't post any facts. Just look at the black community as a whole, are they better off now or 50 years ago? I find Sowell to be a very trust worthy source of information. I trust his research and I trust his judgement. If he feels that AA is only hurting blacks and that the few it does benefit are the ones that it wasn't intended to help in the first place...well, I'm inclined to believe him.
Truthfully, I'm a white male that is motivated to succeed even without government intervention (not that I would ever get any). If it wasn't for the billions of tax dollars being flushed down the toilet by these social programs then I wouldn't care. I have no intention of living in the neighborhoods where these social programs are utilize and I try not to care more about someone and their future than they care themselves.
There is no way I will be able to convince you or any other left leaning member of WSO that most social programs are not only a waste but are a detriment to our society...regardless of the facts. I've known and lived with people who are so unmotivated that they will lay on the couch day in and day out with an empty cupboard and a rumbling belly because they just don't want to go get food stamps. Does he starve to death? No, because his mom stops by and sees that he doesn't have any food, feels bad for him and gives him money. This kid hasn't held a job in like 4 years...but he someone manages to eat, buy cigarettes and get booze. Sadly, he is smart...why work if there will be a mother to stop by and give you money or a government that deposits a check into the mailbox at your government subsidized housing twice a month?
Regards
Plus how much does affirmative action really help?
I can't comment on the US, but in the UK all the majority of URM kids that went through AA programs in finance recruiting come from wealthy backgrounds and attended private schools.
Its not the case of AA actually helping struggling kids from the ghetto that never had a chance.
x
In the US, there is a significantly higher correlation between race and class than in the UK. See this graph:
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/images/wealth/Figure_3…
In the US, white people have roughly 15x the wealth of non-whites.
The chart and attached study are published through the University of California Santa Cruz at http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html. Assuming you can't access that either, here is the data in the figure:
Median Household Income (2006): White - $50k Black - $30k Hispanic - $35k
Median household net worth (2007, including home value): White - $143.6k Black - $9.3k Hispanic - $9.1k
Median household financial, non-home, wealth (2007) White - $43.6k Black - $0.5k Hispanic - $0.4k
Basically, the conclusion is that the income gap isn't that extreme (the median black person making 60% of the median white person's income), but the wealth gap is very extreme (median white person has 15x the wealth of median black person) and the financial asset gap is even more extreme (median white person has almost 90x the wealth of median black person).
The point I was making with this data was: "In the US, there is a significantly higher correlation between race and class than in the UK." The data in the graph certainly supports the hypothesis that race and class are highly correlated in the US. While I don't have the UK data, I'm certain it isn't this extreme.
Setting aside the asian and hispanic population in the US for a second, consider the following question: - Blacks and Whites have both been in the US for almost 400 years, why does the median white person have 15x as much wealth as the median black person?
It could be that blacks are lazy and unproductive and whites are just smart and awesome. Or it could be centuries of slavery followed by a century of unforgiving oppression. I'm pretty sure its the second one, and that a lot of white wealth in this country has been built on the backs of and at the expense of black people. Of course, that was a long time ago and we're not going to give them anything in return (see our treatment of Native Americans) but its important to acknowledge that it's true.
With that out of the way, lets ignore race entirely for a second and consider the following question: - Does a child with parents who have $50k income and $150k in wealth have any advantages growing up over a child with parents who have $10k wealth and $30k income?
Of course they do. The higher income and wealth give kids access to SIGNIFICANTLY better schools and more enriching after-school activities that set them up to become better educated and actually graduate high school, earn admission to excellent colleges, and get high paying jobs. This creates a cycle wherein the children of the poor are trapped in poverty and the children of the wealthy have a much easier time getting to wealth themselves.
There is a myth that the US is a land of opportunity where the poor can become rich. The truth is that in the US, if a father is in the bottom 20% of incomes, the chances that his son will make his way into the top 20% is only 7.9%. This statistic is 11% in Sweden, 12.4% in the UK and 14.4% in Denmark. Think about it, kids in "socialist Denmark" have twice the income mobility of kids in the US.
Now put the first point about race and the second point about income mobility together. By themselves, neither discovery is sufficient, but together, they make a pretty strong argument for affirmative action.
Non-whites excluding asians I presume?
If there were massive racism against non-white people by whites, how is the asian success explained? I mean white males get screwed by URM a bit, but asian males get screwed LOADS.
redninja,
I agree with you social mobility statistics show that the US(and the UK fwiw) do horrible compared to the more socialist nordic european countries(and most of europe to be honest).
A main factor for that is schooling system tough. The common thing in the UK and the US is that to get access to the highest paying job you need to go to a top university. To get into this top university you need to shell out insane amounts of money in the US, and still large(and starting this year, insane amounts of money) for your university.
Then in order to attend this university you need to get private secondary education, which for good schools in the UK costs 40,000 dollars a year. I am not sure of the US system, but I feel attending private secondary schools may give you a massive leg up.
If you take a look at the nordic countries and germany/austria/netherlands:
Private schools on the secondary level are rare, they do not give a significant advantage in university recruiting. University is either free or very very affordable(think 1,500 dollars tops per year).
That is what really drives social mobility. In the UK there are lots of white poor people that will stay poor for generations. In the US it just happens to be that black people and latinos are the majority of the poor, and they will stay poor, not because they are black and latino and being disadvantaged, but because poor people as a whole cannot climb the social ladder.
The key here is to encourage income mobility, not affirmative action.
I don't mind AA. But then please actually take kids from underpriviliged and poor backgrounds not rich black kids.
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