Bankers: WTF are you doing from 8pm to 2am?
From a guy who's never been in banking, but knows enough people that were and they STILL can't answer this question with anything that makes sense.
Okay, I don't know about you guys but I typically work from like 8 or 9am until like 6pm most days - no weekends usually other than maybe fielding phone calls and emails from home. Obviously I travel more than bankers but I rarely consider that work, it's more like vacation to be honest since I like to travel.
But when I hear about people coming in at 8am and not leaving until 2am every day, I'm wondering to myself - what the f*ck takes so much time that you have to be there that long? Are you just really slow as sh*t at stuff? I've never left work with something I didn't finish in a reasonable workday. It doesn't take that long to do anything unless you have epic ADD, no?
Now I understand the general arguments... you have to wait for your MD to get back to you on something, your VP was being an asshole and told you he needed you there at 9pm to revise something after a dinner. But all of this boils down to the same category: just waiting around. Is that why you're there so long? Modeling a company start to finish, including all of the research necessary, probably takes me two weeks. The research is the part that takes me 13 days though... building a model from scratch and finishing it takes me like a morning to get done, maybe 4 hours. I don't walk around, go bullshit with other analysts, go get coffee, eat, take a dump, stare at my screen, etc. so maybe that's why? Or is there something I'm missing here, because I'm not trying to sound ignorant I literally don't get it...
Monkeys I need your help! What exactly are you doing so late at the office from like 8pm into the wee hours of the night?!
I would assume it's probably
I would assume it's probably this or this
But yes I'm also curious.
A pretty common thing is you
A pretty common thing is you get a draft pitchbook full of comments faxed from your MD (yes, faxed so you can barely fucking read it), and you just re-do the whole thing. They want to change something in the model, reformat some pages, add some bullets, whatever. You do it while your associate sits there and surfs the web. Then your associate goes through it while you sit there and surf the web. Lots of wasted time. Repeat 2 or 3 times until it's ok, then both go through and tick and tie every god damn number in the 60 page book, make sure the colors are consistent, make sure there are no periods at the end of your bullet points, etc and send it back, then sit there and wait for another round of comments. I'm sorry you didn't get to experience the excitement of doing a pitch book.
Occasionally, your MD is leaving for a meeting in the monring and gives you final comments at midnight that you have to furiously turn, check, and print (and then check to make sure the printers didn't fuck up, which they do sometimes) and have on their chair at 8 am before you go home, take a shower and come back. Or better yet, he's got a red eye and decides around 11pm that he wants to read about company x in the morning, so you have to sit there for a few hours pulling together all their filings, research, comps, anything else of interest and sending it all to the printer to be bound and then personally delivering it to his doorstep.
If you're lucky enough to be working on an actual deal, maybe the client called you and asked you to dig through the data room and put together a historical breakdown of revenue by customer or something and for some reason your MD wants this to be sent at 3am rather than just waiting and sending it at lunch time tomorrow. That is some straight up Stanford Prison Experiment shit.
I was seated right behind our staffer, who was a real dick, and if I flipped to ESPN.com for more than 5 minutes he would have some dumb shit project for me to do, like scrub 5 year old transaction comps, even if it was 9pm. I wish I was making this up.
Needless to say I did not enjoy the whole banking thing.
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
actual work i mean if you're
actual work
i mean if you're there til 2am you better be there doing work and not facetime
*suscribe* would be
*suscribe*
would be interesting to read responses. If your waiting for an email reply, cant you go home and wait. Must be some tactics to save time
Reading Monkey Business
Reading Monkey Business should clarify this.
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MM Summer Associate here.
MM Summer Associate here.
Generally speaking, management are in meetings for the early parts of the day into the afternoons. Once they return from meetings they will either drop shit on your desk at 5PM "to be done tomorrow," or they will mark up 100 revisions to work you've already completed. Much of the work is menial bullshit. About 80% (or more) of analyst/associate level work could be taught to anyone reading this in less than a days worth of time. So, to answer your question: You work late because management drops work on your desk at 5PM and wants 4-8 hours of work done by the time they get in in the mornings.
Cane0180: MM Summer Associate
MM Summer Associate here.
Generally speaking, management are in meetings for the early parts of the day into the afternoons. Once they return from meetings they will either drop shit on your desk at 5PM "to be done tomorrow," or they will mark up 100 revisions to work you've already completed. Much of the work is menial bullshit. About 80% (or more) of analyst/associate level work could be taught to anyone reading this in less than a days worth of time. So, to answer your question: You work late because management drops work on your desk at 5PM and wants 4-8 hours of work done by the time they get in in the mornings.
I always wondered, can't you just drop that shit onto an analyst's desk instead? If not, how do the associate and analyst roles actually differ?
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Boreed: Cane0180: MM Summer
MM Summer Associate here.
Generally speaking, management are in meetings for the early parts of the day into the afternoons. Once they return from meetings they will either drop shit on your desk at 5PM "to be done tomorrow," or they will mark up 100 revisions to work you've already completed. Much of the work is menial bullshit. About 80% (or more) of analyst/associate level work could be taught to anyone reading this in less than a days worth of time. So, to answer your question: You work late because management drops work on your desk at 5PM and wants 4-8 hours of work done by the time they get in in the mornings.
I always wondered, can't you just drop that shit onto an analyst's desk instead? If not, how do the associate and analyst roles actually differ?
The smaller the bank, the more the line is blurred between associate and analyst. To put another way, you have more defined roles at the BBs than boutiques. You don't drop shit onto an analyst's desks for a few reasons.
-The analyst could be working at capacity on a different deal that an MD assigned, and if you assign something to an analyst without asking an MD first then you take the heat.
-The analyst could be working with you on the same deal.
-The MD could get pissed that you just passed it off to someone else when he asked you to do it.
-It's a dick thing to do. Etc...
An associate is a glorified analyst, but with slightly more clout and responsibility. At my bank if you're a senior associate they generally trust you to run deals with someone overseeing you. Associates will be called on to check analysts work before it is presented to someone above them.
ThunderRoad gets the SB for
ThunderRoad gets the SB for making me laugh and cry at the same time, but not the cry til you laugh kind of cry, the cry because you feel terrible that something terrible happened to someone cry. Already read Monkey Business like 11 times but it never stuck, except the part about pissing in the beer bottle. Plus I didn't believe it. Is it really that mundane? Anyone wanna hug it out?
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Boreed: I always wondered,
I always wondered, can't you just drop that shit onto an analyst's desk instead? If not, how do the associate and analyst roles actually differ?
The key difference is the associate is actually responsible for the work product. I worked on some projects directly with an MD after I had established myself as an analyst who knew his shit, but only for a couple very low-profile clients. Normally there is going to be an associate involved in the process because they are expected to understand the project better, make some judgment calls and proof the final product. The analyst is just the bitch who works in excel and powerpoint.
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
ThunderRoad paints a 100%
ThunderRoad paints a 100% accurate picture of analyst life.
Here's a fairly regular
Here's a fairly regular occurence and something that made me hate banking: It's a random Tuesday night at about 9pm. There's a pitch in the morning across the country. The MD gives you his "final" comments before he goes to sleep. You make the changes and then the associate checks it over. Regardless of whether you did everything 100% correctly or not, the associate will have comments of their own. You then make their changes. You give the book back to the associate, who prints the book and ticks and ties every number (and you do the same). It's now 11-11:30pm and you finally get the book ready to print. You send the book to "production" to print and bind the books for you. You give them a call and say, "how long til you think these can be done?" and they respond with, "3 hours, it's very backed up down here" and you say, "Damn, ok." And you sit at your desk from 11:30pm to 2:30am waiting for the damn books to print that you would gladly do yourself but you have to send it to production. Finally, 2:30-3:00am rolls around and you get a call or email saying your books are done. You go, pick the books up, flip through every page to make sure they didn't screw anything up (and your night just gets longer if they are missing a page or the binding is messed up, etc.). Once the books are flipped and checked, you call up a black car (or take a taxi yourself if the MD lives near you) and have them (or you) hand deliver the books to your MD's doorman or front step. Once you put the books into the car, you flag a taxi and head home. You can't go to bed yet because you have to wait for a confirmation phone call from the driver that the books were delivered. You're in bed by 4am and then get to wake up and start it all over again. How much of that time was actual work? Maybe 2-2.5 hours, but you went to bed at 4am. And the real fun occurs when each part of the process I mentioned takes a little longer than described and the MD is leaving for a flight at 6am.
nyc123: Here's a fairly
Here's a fairly regular occurence and something that made me hate banking: It's a random Tuesday night at about 9pm. There's a pitch in the morning across the country. The MD gives you his "final" comments before he goes to sleep. You make the changes and then the associate checks it over. Regardless of whether you did everything 100% correctly or not, the associate will have comments of their own. You then make their changes. You give the book back to the associate, who prints the book and ticks and ties every number (and you do the same). It's now 11-11:30pm and you finally get the book ready to print. You send the book to "production" to print and bind the books for you. You give them a call and say, "how long til you think these can be done?" and they respond with, "3 hours, it's very backed up down here" and you say, "Damn, ok." And you sit at your desk from 11:30pm to 2:30am waiting for the damn books to print that you would gladly do yourself but you have to send it to production. Finally, 2:30-3:00am rolls around and you get a call or email saying your books are done. You go, pick the books up, flip through every page to make sure they didn't screw anything up (and your night just gets longer if they are missing a page or the binding is messed up, etc.). Once the books are flipped and checked, you call up a black car (or take a taxi yourself if the MD lives near you) and have them (or you) hand deliver the books to your MD's doorman or front step. Once you put the books into the car, you flag a taxi and head home. You can't go to bed yet because you have to wait for a confirmation phone call from the driver that the books were delivered. You're in bed by 4am and then get to wake up and start it all over again. How much of that time was actual work? Maybe 2-2.5 hours, but you went to bed at 4am. And the real fun occurs when each part of the process I mentioned takes a little longer than described and the MD is leaving for a flight at 6am.
Forgive my ignorance, but is that not the most horribly inefficient thing in the world? How easy would it be to outsource half that shit? And if banks are hurting so hard for money shouldn't they kind of fix their horrible structure first before concluding the only way to cut costs is to lay off completely capable junior talent?
I hate victims who respect their executioners
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Reading about I-banking makes
Reading about I-banking makes me think that people in my country that were taken by force to work in labour camps in Syberia by Stalin had a better time than an average analyst.
BlackHat: Is it really that
Is it really that mundane?
It really is. Especially for analysts. You are not being paid to think as an analyst. In fact they don't like it when you think. I read in a company's 10-k that they were really concerned about local economic stats, so pulled together some of our bank's relevant econ research, checked it with compliance, and put together a nice page for our appendix. The VP threw it out without even showing it to the MD and said "you won't be adding any pages just yet". Never mind whether it will add value for the client, or give us a reason to come back again next quarter, I was an analyst, and I didn't get to think thoughts. Yeah come to think of it a hug might be nice. This is bringing back some memories I had buried pretty deep.
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
People go into banking for
Cane0180: People go into
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
I have ragged on banking a
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
nyc123: Here's a fairly
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
BlackHat: Forgive my
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
Interesting comments. It
Beretta: Interesting
Cane0180: Modeling is an
I am going to call my kids Ctrl, Alt and Delete. That way if something is going wrong I can beat them all at once.
SirBarney: I would assume
There is already a book on you. That book is already being written. And if I talked to your friends, your teachers, your professionals, your family, I would know so much about you I wouldn't even have to meet you. You write the book the way you want to be
ThunderRoad: The VP threw it
And I think it's gonna be a long, long, time
Double post
And I think it's gonna be a long, long, time
.
And I think it's gonna be a long, long, time
BlackHat: nyc123: Here's a
There is already a book on you. That book is already being written. And if I talked to your friends, your teachers, your professionals, your family, I would know so much about you I wouldn't even have to meet you. You write the book the way you want to be
browniepoints: Cane0180: Mo
SHORTmyCDO: browniepoints:
You are operating under the
BlackHat: How easy would it
if banking is really mostly
NDAs, the bane of my
dogboo: if banking is really
AM > IB
I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
A humble contribution to your
This topic is hilarious (and
Oreos: NDAs, the bane of my
ThaVanBurenBoyz: Oreos: NDA
Going Concern: This made me
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
ThunderRoad: I have ragged on
1/2 of the WSO Bash Brothers
"Licensed to Ill It"
We all know Bro J did it...
If you want to learn an
I hate victims who respect their executioners
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ThunderRoad: Going
And I think it's gonna be a long, long, time
Going Concern: Sounds like
I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates
ThaVanBurenBoyz: Oreos: NDA
I can tell you how I made each of my millions - but not where I got the very first
brandon st randy: Do you
TechBanking: dogboo: if
ThaVanBurenBoyz: brandon st
I can tell you how I made each of my millions - but not where I got the very first
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