Networking Internally - Good or bad?

Hi guys,

So real quick, I am an Analyst in the Corporate banking division of a regional bank - been here about 7 months now. I am currently trying to network into IB. Anyways, my bank doesn't have an IBD arm but we do have a "corporate finance" arm that will do a lot of the work MD's would do but more like outsourcing it to a few boutiques we have deals with. Question: would it be a dumb idea to contact a MD in my corp. finance department and pretty much tell him I'm trying to get into IB?...

 

I'd do some research on them first. I see you selected ER as your industry, find out what they cover, and read some of their work. reference that when you email so it doesn't look like you're blasting out hundreds of emails to everyone with the same title (VP, MD, whatever). that will also give you specific questions to ask them. at my firm, the ER guys have biographies on our research page, so you can find out where they went to school and what their experience has been.

 
thebrofessor:

I'd do some research on them first. I see you selected ER as your industry, find out what they cover, and read some of their work. reference that when you email so it doesn't look like you're blasting out hundreds of emails to everyone with the same title (VP, MD, whatever). that will also give you specific questions to ask them. at my firm, the ER guys have biographies on our research page, so you can find out where they went to school and what their experience has been.

Thank you, great advice. I'll research some ER guys/gals and try that within the next week or so.
Someone in the firm (not senior) recommended going and meeting them but considering they're on another floor, that seems a tad stalkerish to me.

 
packmate:

Definitely agree with the above. I've done a fair amount of networking this way...try to get warm intros though. That combined with working there will always have a good outcome

What do you mean by warm intros? Getting a mutual contact to introduce us? I'm in the risk department and as there is not much overlap, there are not many people who are in contact with the ER department.

 

Most firms don't allow you to move unless you have been in your current role for 1 - 2yrs.

This is a tricky situation though you may piss them off if you try and leave. I think its best to not tell them at any point until you have to (get an offer, required by HR etc). Allow yourself plenty of time to wind down any current projects, train new a new hire, make the transisition as easy as possible.

 

Make a fabulous rapport with your summer supervisor in the first five weeks, which should be good enough for you to get a return offer. Beginning of sixth week, email your HR expressing your interest in internal mobility of the firm. She will get you an interview in the 8th/9th week. Do well in your interview and be able to express your motivation for the change.

"I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature."
 

Firs thing, focus on your job and crush it, it will make it much easier to move around if you have a good reputation. Use the directory, search around for areas you are interested in and reach out to individuals. Hopefully coming from an internal email will lead to a higher response rate. Try to meet up with these people, maybe visit a desk or shadow. If you there are any friends or alumni in the bank reach out to them first

 

@"Bobb" Thanks for the advice. How would you go about reaching out to those internal contacts, I.E, asking for advice on how to break into their division? Or just overall career advice

 

A thing to note, firms usually won't let you move internally until you've been working for a year or two. I wouldn't start reaching out to people your first week on the job, but after you've gone through training and are comfortable in your role you can start networking. Shoot out some emails asking for a phone call or coffee to learn more about their division and what they do etc

 

I know that. But I don't want to wait over a year before even starting to network, especially considering this job is a 2-year program.

I also graduated early and already have started working. I will have a few months' experience by the time training starts. It's also why my training will be only half of the typical period.

Regardless, this is a good networking opportunity and I really just want to make the most of it.

 

At my old firm I did a lot of internal networking. I would go through the directory and shoot emails out to people in on the desks or department I wanted. Most people were very responsive and accepting and admired my balls (as one MD put it).

You may want to wait a bit before you start looking for a way out. It seems like you just started your position, give it some time, settle in and kill your job.

 
Bobb:
At my old firm I did a lot of internal networking. I would go through the directory and shoot emails out to people in on the desks or department I wanted. Most people were very responsive and accepting and admired my balls (as one MD put it).

You may want to wait a bit before you start looking for a way out. It seems like you just started your position, give it some time, settle in and kill your job.

Did you use your work email or personal?

 

I think you'll be fine emailing with the company email. I also think networking internally will be encouraged. Keep in mind though that making that transition is extremely difficult and you're unlikely to be given a chance at IBD. I would try to network internally and externally and hope for the best to get an IBD interview from a different firm

 

I was just curious about using internal email, as I can't check it outside of work, and after my internship. I am trying to network externally obviously, but I just wanted to know if I could expand my network like this. Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

is it a bad idea to jot down some internal contacts before wrapping up a summer gig? would be look bad -- especially when you contact said contacts via an external email months later and having to explain how you "stole" their contact info from the company while interning?

 

Well, I don't think it will look like you stole it, because you could just look them up on linkedin and use the company email format, which can likely be found online, to contact them, so that's not too different then sending out cold emails, but just including a mention that you used to intern at their company. I am interested, as I understand you are, in sending out internal emails while still at the internship. Thanks.

 

If you are at the BB I think you're at (which has a large credit risk group by a certain large salt lake) then I would recommend that you first lateral to the credit team in NYC, and make that a primary objective of your trip. Not saying that you can't hit up the other guys you mention, but I doubt its effectiveness.

Two reasons why to network with the credit team in NYC than the FO guys.

  1. Several of the MD's on the NYC credit team are from the business side, so they are more likely to connect you with their old buddies.
  2. The consistent amount of face time you'll get rather than a one and done deal.
 

Actually that is on my thought too. I am in good relations with an MD from CR in NYC but he works in reporting, which conducts CCAR and other stress tests for the bank. I know I will definitely meet the members of my industry team in NY because we have phone conferences regularly (Actually quite excited to meet them in person). I didn't mention it earlier because think despite the fact that they do have client exposure and generate revenue (Obviously not to the same extent as the true FO guys), they're still not considered real FO. Also someone on this forum mentioned to me "there's no way they'd let me do that," but I suppose you can never base conclusions on one anonymous person's opinion.

When I do meet them, I will try my best to have lunch/dinner with them and probably have occasional chats in the office. Do you think it'd be a good idea to explicitly express that I would actually like to transition to NY sometime in the future?

 

Whoever said they wouldn't let you do that is full of shit, as exits ops into the IB side were highlighted by the business partners when I went through the interview process (although don't get me wrong, it isn't a breeze to lateral from NYC CR to IB).

CR in NYC is very middle office (almost FO but def. not BO); however, CCAR is a endless pit of despair. I had a couple friends in Corp Fin placed in that group, and while you're bound to have solid job security for the long term, you'll get the ugly label as a reg guy/gal slapped on your resume.

You should bring up that you eventually move to NYC, but have a good reason why you want to move outside of the job. (e.g. I always wanted to live here, I have family up here, etc). Keep it casual for now, but definitely plant the seeds that you can harvest for an eventual jump when the opportunity presents itself.

 

I know lateral into IBD is always difficult but they actually said in your interview it's a definite possibility?

And I'm glad you mentioned that because I am actually from the East Coast, only about 3-4 hour bus ride away. All my family friends and many school friends are around there too. You think that would constitute a sufficient reason to want to move there?

 

So would you recommend I reach out to them via email or phone beforehand and see if they're free to have coffee or lunch when I get there? Or should I wait until I get to NY to get formally introduced?

I'm asking that because I've already spoken to quite a few of the NY credit risk folks prior to starting my current role (Just through reaching out and building connections while I was still in school). One of the VPs there even referred me to the MD I mentioned before (Though probably only because he's also an alum from my school).

 

..depends on your team's attitude.

if they are usually supportive and encourage movement within the firm, then bring it up during your review or a normal workday. maybe they know someone in the division you want to move into.

if they aren't supportive, then do it quietly.

------------ I'm making it up as I go along.
 

Immediately?

You can always network, and I'd say it is encouraged. What would be frowned upon is if you let it slip that you are trying to find a new job. Just approach them for now and try to build a relationship, with the idea being later down the line you'll want to make the jump. I bet that the contacts would be much more receptive once they realize you aren't just using them for a job (at least initially).

"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."
 
CountryUnderdog:
Immediately?

You can always network, and I'd say it is encouraged. What would be frowned upon is if you let it slip that you are trying to find a new job. Just approach them for now and try to build a relationship, with the idea being later down the line you'll want to make the jump. I bet that the contacts would be much more receptive once they realize you aren't just using them for a job (at least initially).

Thanks! and in your opinion, after how many months can you start asking for the job and trying to actually get the new job?

 

I mean, you can do it whenever you want. Analysts leave all the time for a multitude of reasons. If it was me, and I was an the M&A group at GS I would at least stay a year for the experience. That being said, since you seem like you want out, I would network until you have some really solid relationships, and then once you have that let it slip -- I assume it will take at least 6 months if not a year to build the type of contacts I am talking about.

Best of luck. I drool at your options (i.e. GS M&A).

"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."
 

Also, just as an aside you should probably read your employment agreement to see if they claw back your signing bonus or something if you leave prior to x months. Just to be safe.

"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."
 

Only one technicality, GS doesn't have a pure M&A group, M&A is worked in-house via industry coverage. So basically your situation would never exist.

Just kidding (the group part is true though)

 

Sounds like you're off to a good start. Search previous threads, this has been answered before

I'm on the pursuit of happiness and I know everything that shine ain't always gonna be gold. I'll be fine once I get it
 

I agree with the above poster, and would also say that you should target analysts and associates first - even under the alum category. Shoot an email expressing an interest in the industry/field coupled with an industry in banking as a transition next year, and just ask for their insight, if they interned before, what they like (in time, of course, don't fire a laundry list of questions right off the bat).

I would also speak with colleagues (as you go through the internship and get to know them), and see if they know anyone in banking that they could put a quick word in to, to describe the position, etc of the field. Don't insult their field (PWM), but just express an interest in both fields, and are curious to learn more about banking.

IBanker www.BankonBanking.com Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking

 

ask your boss to hook you up if at all possible. cold-emailing could work. unfortunately, pwm doesn't have a lot of clout. if you can manage to strike up a face-to-face conversation with a banker, you'll have a much better shot.

 

I can't speak for other banks, but at my BB the divisions were fairly separate. Unless your contacts are buddies with any bankers, they can't really help you for banking.

If I were you, I would probably just reach out to them to learn about their divisions and use them to hedge your bets in case you can't land a banking gig.

 
Golden Valley:

I can't speak for other banks, but at my BB the divisions were fairly separate. Unless your contacts are buddies with any bankers, they can't really help you for banking.

If I were you, I would probably just reach out to them to learn about their divisions and use them to hedge your bets in case you can't land a banking gig.

Agreed. When I was reaching out, a couple of contacts I had were pretty clear that they only had pull in their divisions. These were 2 MD's saying this. Only time I've ever had it a contact reach out to another division was if they knew someone well in that division where they felt comfortable, but it definitely didn't have the same kind of influence that they had in their own division.

 

If you are lateraling it's actually helpful to speak with HR as well, esp. if you are well-liked and a top performer in your current group. It sounds, though, as if you aren't in the BB yet - something to consider over the longer run perhaps.

 
seville:

How is internal networking early in the career viewed as? I just joined my firm and already started scheduling informational coffee meetings with people in different divisions. This of course includes performing exceptionally in my role...

1. If my current boss notices this, how can this impact me?

2. Is this fairly common?

Nothing wrong with meeting people in different areas of your firm but do not over do it. Focus on your current role first, make sure you have a good review and high praise from your boss

 

Bump - also, if I were you I would somewhat network with those on your floor or in your division because maybe one of them worked in IB when they were younger. Then again, the question of how and when you should tell your current division that you would like to move to a different division is a tricky one and something I couldn't speak on. Hopefully someone responds though.

 

Seems fine.

I'd say that it doesn't hurt you at all, and as you're currently doing your sophomore summer internship at the firm, your options in landing an IBD role for your SA gig are much easier. You shouldn't go off on a mass email spree to everyone in the IBD M&A team, but definitely send out a couple of emails (short, sweet, polite, candid) asking if the person has any time where they can speak to you about what you're interested in. Obviously introduce yourself and all that stuff. Target right -- check LinkedIn (some post about being a mentor) and target your emails to those who you'd wager are more likely to respond. They'll instantly see that you're an intern at their firm and it's much easier. Careful though, last thing you want is for every analyst and associate to receive the same exact email from you.

I have a few thoughts regarding what bank you're talking about based on your rather weird description of it.. IMO a bank can fall concretely into one of the categories, I wouldn't call any bank other than the BB's a BB. Also, quick sidenote, I recommend utilizing LinkedIn as you have already and continuing 20x harder with cold contacting alumni from your school. In your position, it's arguably one of the best common secrets. Also, please wait until you're at least a couple of weeks in -- start/end dates for interns are common knowledge, and you risk looking really strange if it's day 3 and you're already trying to speak with a VP in a completely different group.

EBITDA rules everything around me
 

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