FYI, Girls would rather fuck a tan, lean guy than a white, fat one...

SJFC07:
I know one guy going into their TMT group and hes a nice guy. He's into tanning tho so he might qualify for douchebag status, im not sure.
 

Rumor is they get word on Tuesday and get paid 2 days later. I'm sure, though, that if 2nd years didn't end up getting the BB standard, it would hurt analyst retention more than anything.

 

so are they canceling ALL IBD offers? i got a FT offer, but have not been called yet. all of the folks who have accepted FT IBD offers have kept in touch via email, and some have reported being contacted by HR and told that their offers will no longer be honored. am i just next in line for a phone call, or is there chance that some IBD positions will be saved?

 

I spoke with two guys in my finance class today, and both have had their offers from Bear IBD revoked (this was on Thursday 4/3/08).

- Capt K - "Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
 

Sad as it is to say, FT/SA offers are the last thing on BSC/JPM's minds right now. There are a LOT of rumors going around of the "he said this" and "she said that" variety but there is nothing official yet.

Yes, it sucks to not know what is going to happen but you have to keep in mind that peoples' entire lives and savings have been destroyed by this... then there's the matter of integration with JPM and what will be kept and what won't be kept.

I would start talking to some other contacts and investigating alternatives, but avoid jumping to conclusions before an official announcement is made.

 

i agree with you, dosk17, but the only difference between those people and individuals like myself who are apparently screwed out of an offer is experience. i spent the last 6 months thinking i have a job waiting for me, allowing other tempting opportunities to pass by. it is quite difficult right now to find a job even half as enticing as the one i already have (or rather had). this is not to say i don't feel for lower level employees who, unlike the upper echelon individuals within BS, do not have oogles of cash saved up. but such people will not have as much trouble finding a new job as will a barely experienced, graduating in less than 2 months, finance major. and even if it does take them a while to find something, most will surely have some sort of savings accumulated outside of BS stock, thus making the transition period a little bit easier. i saved as much as a college kid could, but finding a new job asap wouldn't hurt....

 

I've screwed up tons of times and come very close to losing all my money multiple times in my life.

If I were you I would start talking to boutiques and MMs that may still be hiring... probably the best thing to do and I would not even go after BBs as they're going to be flooded with people.

Regardless of what anyone says, a banking job at a boutique is still far better than a non-banking job anywhere else if you want to go into finance.

 

Mlamb, Im all about caveat emptor but you can't deny the substantial predatory lending practices that were going on at the time. Needless to say, I am a huge proponent of free market capitalism and am generally against government bailouts of any kind. Its frankly not fair to bailout people who took on an inordinate amount of risk while responsible people have to pick up the slack

WxOnWallStreet,

While I am mildly sympathetic toward Bear investors you have to acknowledge the fact that anyone who had their life savings in BSC was an idiot...its called diversification. I assume you are referring to executives who have a bit of a different story but again that is the risk that you take in a capitalist economy (easy for me to say since I don't have any skin in the game).

 
Seanc:
I agree with junkbondswap, there shouldn't have been a bailout, I don't care if the whole system would have collapsed.

Of course you don't care, because you don't understand in the least what implications this would have.

Bear is a counter-party to more than $10 trillion (with a "T") in credit swaps - bailout or not, the markets would have been in far worse shape if not for the move by JPM. The Fed's backing is really just a temporary capital backstop, not so different than that needed to unwind LTCM's precarious market positions during the late 1990's. I agree that creditors should take a hit on this, and they are, but there is a big difference between redeeming credit securities at 60-70 cents on the dollar versus redeeming them at 10 cents on the dollar. Regarding the equity, I think $0 per share is a fair price, and JPM should have taken a harder line on this front.

As for the retarded protesters, I enjoyed the following bit from a Reuters article: "Bear Stearns employees were alternatively amused and perplexed, taking pictures on their cell phones."

 

Do NOT go into Bear LevFin. I know an associate in the group, and his hours are very very bad.

When I interviewed there, I liked the people in Healthcare the best (and I understand it is a pretty good group as well), but all of my friends going to Bear seem to think TMT is the best group there.

GIG seemed like such a huge group that I wouldn't get to make any connections, or get to "know" any of my seniors. Personally, if I was working at Bear, I'd pick HC.

 
sixsigma:
i had the general notion that HC has killer hours regardless of what firm you're in, is that right? if so, wouldn't they be rougher hours than LevFin?
Hmm, I never heard of Bear's Consumer group being particularly strong, but I could be wrong.

Regarding Bear's HC group, everyone I met there seemed to be very chill, and definitely didn't seem to be as sleep deprived as the people from TMT or LevFin. I could have just caught them on a good day though.

 

I interviewed at Bear and thought about 75% of the people I met were arrogant assholes. Might have just been the luck of the draw but it really turned me off. To be fair though, I did meet some very nice people there as well.

 

Bear TMT has the worst hours but does the best deals. LevFin is pretty rough on the hours as well but might have better exit opps than the coverage groups. HC can have long hours and is ok in the market. FIG and GIG have the least hours. FIG mostly works on MM deals while GIG varies a ton.

The people there are much less arrogant than at other banks from my experience. The culture is all about how hard you work. It seems like exit opps might not be quite as good as the larger banks but I would definitely not rank Bear with BofA, DB, or Jefferies. They do have many F500 clients, just not as many as larger banks.

 

I interviewed with people from both of the groups and really liked them. I wouldn't have described them as arrogant at all. Those are the 2 strongest groups within IBD. HC does a lot of the Pfizer deals and Merck Serono; TMT did the Disney/Pixar deal.

 

Bear has chosen to focus on other areas of the bank such as prime brokerage and structured product. M&A at Bear is not too much different than at Houlihan or Jefferies, although unlike Houlihan, it has a balance sheet.

---------------- Account Inactive
 

What's your deal with Bear? They've been doing pretty well for themselves recently. Size, though important, doesn't mean everything.

Within the past year, Bear's TMT Group advised Time Warner on their $1B sale of their 5% stake in AOL to Google, the $17.6B acquisition of Adelphi, the $7.5B acquisition of Turner Broadcasting, and the $1.9B sale of Six Flags. They also snagged Walt Disney as a client for its $2.6B sale of ABC Radio and it's $7.4B acquisition of Pixar.

Not bad for a bank that's a quarter the size of their competitors.

 
TexasIB:
What's your deal with Bear? They've been doing pretty well for themselves recently. Size, though important, doesn't mean everything.

Within the past year, Bear's TMT Group advised Time Warner on their $1B sale of their 5% stake in AOL to Google, the $17.6B acquisition of Adelphi, the $7.5B acquisition of Turner Broadcasting, and the $1.9B sale of Six Flags. They also snagged Walt Disney as a client for its $2.6B sale of ABC Radio and it's $7.4B acquisition of Pixar.

Not bad for a bank that's a quarter the size of their competitors.

is there a website that lists the deals Bear Stearns has worked on ?

 

Like other banks. The senior people there ONLY care about money, and that trickles down to all employees. They don't focus on league tables, or size / prestige of deals. They don't care about anything except maximizing take-home pay. They often have the best paid bankers on Wall St., but they frequently lag behind in all other metrics. They just don't care about anything else. If you interview there, you should expect people to tell you that - I can't tell you how many times I heard, "we're here to get paid, not be on the front page of the Wall St. Journal" or some version of that sentiment.

 

Not sure about the IBD specifically, but Bear definitely has a dog-eat-dog perception on the street. Pretty fiesty place to work but good people from those I've met. Never heard the "we're here to get paid" line but definitely heard they are among the highest paid. There will always be a group of people that hate certain banks. Take each opinion lightly.

 

If that says what I think it does, I think that those looking for jobs may have had jobs and can discuss them. This board is like flies on shit for interns, and they should be able to learn from it also, instead of learning how to get their next job. A good intern is knowledgeable in the field also, instead of just knowing how to work the system.

 
laxn103:
If that says what I think it does, I think that those looking for jobs may have had jobs and can discuss them. This board is like flies on shit for interns, and they should be able to learn from it also, instead of learning how to get their next job. A good intern is knowledgeable in the field also, instead of just knowing how to work the system.

well, there's only so much an intern can pick up, but yeah they can learn somethings.

what've you learned during your internship?

 

When I came in, I had no idea what to expect. The company I am interning for is being directly affected by the mortgage blowup. They aren't losing money, but their bonds are losing value when marked to market. So they have been getting margin calls, but they have a decent amount of liquidity, 30mm in cash and a warehouse line of 200mm. They use primarily CDO financing for and that market has dried up. It is interesting that the investment pipeline for CMBS has basically come to a hault. it is also interesting that a few weeks before the blowout, we were seeing deals with pathetic DSCR's and underwriting. The underwriting was ridiculously aggressive. UW DSCR's of 1.04, underwritten aggressively. And finally it came crashing down. I think it was interesting that I noticed this and then the market crashed, which makes me wonder, if an intern can see this, then why the hell couldn't investors see it?

 

I guess, the first thing would be the collateral in the deal. The company I work for usually mixes CMBS, ABS, and some bank loans in the deal. Then they would figure out what kind of risk they want and invest in a tranche that is rated to their liking. My company keeps the last piece, it is preferred or unrated. The losses work there way from the bottom up. I also know the company I work for has to reinvest in the CDO during the term of the CDO, which I dont understand very well. There are certain terms that say they have to reinvest such and such at this amount. If I were an investor I would not like this much, it would be trusting the company issuing the CDO with investing in new collateral and putting it into the deal. And when market conditions go bad, like today, there will be nothing good to invest in. I guess that is why CDOs are not in demand now.

 
laxn103:
Yes because it has the highest spread, they get the most money out of it. They feel comfortable taking the risk in it because they made the investment decisions in buying the collateral.

maybe. it's also the toughest to sell to investors so often the manager takes down the equity piece.

 

Getting back on topic, Bear doesn't seem to hold onto much of the risk itself. It has subsidiaries and permanent strucured vehicles for that purpose funded by outside investors, like most dealers nowadays. BSAM (for instance) is a separate entity, as many already know - likely more a reputational hit than a financial one (although one can lead to the other). Transaction flow is down, however, and this will probably affect all in the dealer community, including Bear. Then again, it could be picked up on the cheap by someone with money, maybe a big bank without a deep desk.

This seems like a good question for the equity/bond analysts or bankers on this board...

 

I was actually fortunate enough to secure two offers (one from a more prestigious BB and one from a top boutique) and a few other interviews the week after Bear collapsed.

1) I emailed everyone I had interviewed with and kept in touch with to see if there were any opportunities available (I told them I would be willing to work for free)

2) I emailed all my personal contacts to see if they had any personal connections within the finance industry.

3) I cold called 10-15 different regional offices a day explaining my situation....the key is to talk to people within the firm...getting transferred to HR in NY = death.

While I feel blessed and very lucky to have these opportunities, I feel that if anything, these times are a sure test of determination...don't give up and keep trying.

 
trojandizzle:
I was actually fortunate enough to secure two offers (one from a more prestigious BB and one from a top boutique) and a few other interviews the week after Bear collapsed.

1) I emailed everyone I had interviewed with and kept in touch with to see if there were any opportunities available (I told them I would be willing to work for free)

2) I emailed all my personal contacts to see if they had any personal connections within the finance industry.

3) I cold called 10-15 different regional offices a day explaining my situation....the key is to talk to people within the firm...getting transferred to HR in NY = death.

While I feel blessed and very lucky to have these opportunities, I feel that if anything, these times are a sure test of determination...don't give up and keep trying.

Congrats man! How exactly did you manage to get the BB and top boutique offers? Same pay or are you doing it for free? PM if you don't want to post it.

Ross, no but I tell them my situation.

 

I got on the horn right after the Friday collapse. I however, had little luck. I touched based with everyone I'd previously interviewed with and found that at most places, positions had been filled.

I know most people on the site claim that boutiques are still hiring now. I've been lucky to find two small shops that are, but 99% of the places I've looked have thwarted my attempts with, "We do not hire interns", or "We have already hired interns for the summer".

In other words, not good - we'll see how the next couple weeks play out. It sucks because a few places I'm talking to want me to come out and interview. Not exactly easy when finals start in 7 days.

 

gka- I'm not considering it. I've already signed at the HF. I just was wondering when JPM would be getting back to us. They are supposed to contact SA's about alternative internships (NPO's) and early recruitment for 2009 analyst positions... I was wondering if others have already heard from them, because I haven't.

Also, do you really think a HF of Funds is more prestigious than Bear/JPM? I know I'll actually get to do real work because I'm working directly with an analyst, MD, and PM, so I will be doing analyst level work. But, it isn't a brand name like Bear Stearns is/was. Thoughts?

 

not sure about fixed income, although i've heard good things...in equities, bear is regarded as a great stock picking shop. their research analysts are some of the best in terms of picking individual winners, so based on that, they have a strong respected sales force, and their traders are animals. This is based on things i have seen, and heard.

 
I would disagree that they are one of the best in <abbr title="Sales and Trading">S&amp;T</abbr>. Yes, their mortgage shop is probably #1, and they are solid overall, but I wouldn't go much further than that. They did just pull off a nice novation in the commodities space last week, though. For one data point, at top <abbr title="Masters in Business Administration"><abbr title="Masters in Business Administration">MBA</abbr></abbr> programs Bear does not do well at all in recruiting. Take it for what it's worth, but it does mean something.
 

Unlike IBD, where everyone seems to have their own view of "rankings", in S&T it all depends on the desk. Also, some shops, like JPM and Citi, are huge in the flow business. But the margins are lower there and the world is moving towards derivatives and structured products, so one could argue that being #1 in cash investment-grade bonds, for instance, doesn't really matter as much these days.

In general, I'd probably say that shops that are heavily focused on derivatives and structured products as their primary business are the places to be. So I'd say Goldman, Deutsche, Morgan, and Lehman are very well-regarded across the board. Barclays Capital is quickly becoming very strong in a number of areas, Bear is tops in mortgages, Merrill is tops in equity derivatives, etc.

But again, it really is all desk-dependent. For instance, I'm in commodities, so I know how things stack up in my space, but if you asked me what shop is best for, say, rate derivatives, I wouldn't really know. And in S&T desk reputation trumps firm reputation.

But also, like others have posted before, culture of both the firm and the desk trump everything. Bear and Goldman, for instance, each have very strong cultures that tend to hold across most of their desks. If you are not a fit for that culture then do NOT go there, regardless of how good the name is.

Also, while turnover is high across all of finance, it is particularly high in S&T. That's why all these kids fighting over who is most prestigious are so ridiculour. There is not a single senior person on all of Wall Street that gives a shit about the "prestige" of a bank. They care about career opportunities in specific positions, and money. That's it.

 

It's hard to define Goldman's culture, but it's very strong and they tend to do a good job of ensuring it exists across desks. You really have to meet a number of people from the firm. But GS's culture is definitely love it or hate it. Lots of military veterans.

Bear's culture seems to be very aggresive, with an upstart mentality. Very proud of their history and the fact that they tend to have less turnover than other firms. When I interviewed with Bear the "Why Bear?" question was huge. If you didn't have a good read on their culture and know that you were willing to cut off your left arm to join then, then they were more than willing to ding you, no matter how good your "stats" were.

Lehman--hard to characterize, but almost everyone I know there absolutely loves it. Also very proud of their lower turnover rates.

Deutsche--love to hear some feedback from people who work here, but I have heard the "sharp elbows" comments on more than one occasion.

Citi--total product of the mergers. No corporate culture whatsoever, but strong individual desk cultures. The antithesis of GS in that regard (which again, can be good or bad depending on your own personal viewpoint).

Barcap--very chill, laid back, friendly people. Very diverse and international (tons of women and "minorities" on the floor). Still some of that British feel.

MS--very intellectual, for lack of a better word. To use a consulting comparison, more of a BCG feel than a Bain feel.

JPM--no comment other than that they've been hemorrhaging people for a few years now, in multiple areas.

First piece of advice--visit as many trading floors as possible. By the time I did my summer internship I had physically visited almost all of the 12 major banks. Second--meet people the individual desks, because each will have their own culture (even if you go to a firm with an overriding firmwide culture, the individual desks will still vary greatly).

 

I heard Bear is rough to work at, especially since some think its 2nd tier. Would you consider it 2nd tier or all that bad to work for??

i heard very independant cut-throat culture.

 

doesn't realize is that these "losses" are determined by the mark-to-market NAV of the fund's subprime securities. In a panicked, illiquid market, idiosyncratic debt is obviously going to trade far below par.

If held to maturity, on a CF basis, BS's assets are worth much, much more.

 
desecrato:
doesn't realize is that these "losses" are determined by the mark-to-market NAV of the fund's subprime securities. In a panicked, illiquid market, idiosyncratic debt is obviously going to trade far below par.

If held to maturity, on a CF basis, BS's assets are worth much, much more.

Well - that's the whole problem isn't it? When these get marked down, these funds that are levered up the wazoo have to post margin they don't have, get deleveraged, are forced to sell to cover these calls - and so the cycle continues. And when you mark-to-market, and the market knows you're a forced seller, it gets ugly.

These will be the next wave of "distressed" securities. It's no different from forced sellers of distressed bonds. You even see funds now ramping up to BUY some of these securitizations.

This is a leverage issue more than a subprime one. There's no way these funds even come close to collapsing if they are unlevered.

 
desecrato:
doesn't realize is that these "losses" are determined by the mark-to-market NAV of the fund's subprime securities. In a panicked, illiquid market, idiosyncratic debt is obviously going to trade far below par.

If held to maturity, on a CF basis, BS's assets are worth much, much more.

"idiosyncratic debt" is always illiquid, and usually marked to model.

 
sleepyguyb:
Kind of like when LTCM blew up, Buffet was one of the top buyers of their products, which ended up making a profit.

Wasn't Buffett on some camping trip with Bill Gates and missed out on this opportunity? Back in '98 when this happened they didn't have cell phones or satellite phones way out in the middle of nowhere Alaska and he missed out I am pretty sure.

I do know that last year when Amaranth blew up, Citadel and a few ibanks bought up the remaining securities and made a shitload of money off it.

 

Cervantes, glad you made the statement. This is something a lot of people don't understand. I currently intern at blank Asset Management. Are we affiliated with the parent bank? Yes, but we are a separate entity. If we blow up will the parent bank be affected? Yes, but more in the sense of reputation than actual dollars (although pissed off clients I'm sure would do everything they could to spread their hatred and hurt business in other areas).

 

Do you guys know what you're talking about?

Again, the actual fund losses are from investors, but fees are pushed up to the parent company, which they lose when the HFs collapse.

Look at the BSC 2006 annual report. Asset Management is all over it. Numbers are broken out all over, as well as this:

"The (Parent) Company receives advisory fees for investment management. In addition, the Company receives performance incentive fees for managing certain funds."

 

HoyaOnBothSides, I think what we were getting at was that in the big picture, Bear won't be affected in terms of earnings. I believe Bear even issued a statement saying the blow ups won't affect earnings. Similar to the hedge fund I work at, we are a separate entity, but there is still fees and expenses shared (back office people for example). But I am going to share with Cervantes in saying that's about as far as I can discuss this stuff on an open board.

 

The funds may seeded with the manager's own cash, and the manager may still have substantial funds invested in their own fund.

I don't know about Bear Sterns' funds in particular.

http://stylizedfacts.com/coruscation/
 

the mortgage division has not been eliminated, not sure where you heard that. they finished #2 in mbs origination behind lehman this year. mortgages are a huge piece of what bear does, highly unlikely they exit the business

 

How's the exit op at Bear (say at M&A or Media) compared to at Credit Suisse and UBS? (assume same ranking in the analyst class) My impression is they are on a similar level, yet there's a gap in prestige and size.

 

BS will always have a second rate investment bank. Cutting back on structured finance will not give them more focus on investment banking. Bear can't compare to CS or UBS when it comes to exit ops, especially UBS or CS LA. Since Bear got burned on LBO bridge loans and CDO structuring you can expect them to be more cautious offering financing terms in the future, which will not help them win deals. BS has always had a decent fixed income division and everything else has been weak.

If the only large bank you have is Bear then take it but otherwise look elsewhere.

The Prince of Wall Street

http://www.princeofwallstreet.com

 

This is actually my situation. I have a good ER SA offer (think MS, CS, Lehman) and I have this BS IB offer. I like IB job (seriously, I enjoyed my last summer at a smaller Ibank.) But I'm concerned about BS's future. See, what if BS gets worse or gets bought up. On the other hand, I may do internal transfer from ER to IB at that better firm. Another tradeoff is that ER SA may hurt my FT job hunting for IB (depending on the market). Any suggestions? Thx.

 
VeniVidiVici:
This is actually my situation. I have a good ER SA offer (think MS, CS, Lehman) and I have this BS IB offer. I like IB job (seriously, I enjoyed my last summer at a smaller Ibank.) But I'm concerned about BS's future. See, what if BS gets worse or gets bought up. On the other hand, I may do internal transfer from ER to IB at that better firm. Another tradeoff is that ER SA may hurt my FT job hunting for IB (depending on the market). Any suggestions? Thx.

If you want to do IBD, take BS IBD. Good buddy of mine summered at BS and leveraged up for FT at MS. BS IBD will go much much further than ER anywhere.

 

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Banking > VC > Tech PE; PM me if you would like any advice I'm happy to help
 

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  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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