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Being an Asian in finance in the United States
 

goldman in da house's picture
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 10:15am
asian.jpg

I'm Asian-American. I see tons of Asians going into finance at the analyst level, and many who are Asian at the lower levels of PE firms (associate, analyst), but it seems to me that it's rarer to see Asians at the higher levels of PE or IBD. In my opinion, I think this is because it's simply harder for Asians in general to develop relationships with all you white folk who run the companies of this country (than for other Caucasians), and thus Asians tend to bring in less revenue.

Why this is so is possibly because people in general tend to get along better with similar people - others with similar backgrounds, cultures, and appearances. Another plausible reason is because of immigration patterns that led to second generation Asian-Americans being much larger now than maybe 10 years ago. Nevertheless, I can't seem to think of a single important Asian-American financier in the United States among the hundreds of important American financiers out there today.

One of my friends who worked at Goldman Sachs this past summer but decided not to accept his return offer told me one of the main reasons is because he thinks his chances of making it to the top are really slim since he is Asian. He decided to pursue a PhD instead.

What do you guys think about Asian-Americans in finance? Do you think I'm overthinking things? Is there potential for someone like me to be the Jeremy Lin of finance?

Tags:
seedy underbelly's picture

Interesting. Asian-Indians,

IB
(King Kong, 1,090
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 2:25am

Interesting. Asian-Indians, in comparison, tend to have little problem with the 'bamboo ceiling'. In fact, considering their share of the US population (0.9%), they've done exceptionally well. CEO of Pepsi, Citigroup, McKinsey, Deans of Harvard Business School and UChicago Booth, several of the top (not the very top, obviously) executives at Goldman, Blackstone, Bain Capital, Governors of two States, etc.

I personally think it has to do with the personality types of the East Asians who do end up going into finance. At my school at least, all are incredibly intense, focused, and of course smart. The Indians, in comparison, are all of that and also, crucially, laid back. Meh, just a theory.

Falcon's picture

How do you think Blacks and

CF
(Gorilla, 512
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 2:32am

How do you think Blacks and Hispanics feel?

Honest question btw, no trolling.

Just a sophomore looking for an opportunity to start up this dream of mine.

bbjhva's picture

What an interesting question,

CO
(Orangutan, 298
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 2:49am

What an interesting question, though I was gonna say the same thing as seedy underbelly - tons of Indians who make it OK. Anshu Jain even made it big in a German, highly White setting...so I don't think there's firstly racism or latent racism as such. We all know brown people face a lot more racism than Asians...!

On the other hand, I think it has something to do with cultural/stereotypical strengths. Indians tend to talk more, be better at presenting than Asians, while Asians are more detail-oriented and excellent at analytics. Typically you find a lot of Asian CFOs for instance - those not doing a lot of customer facing work but still handling hugely important duties.

I think you should definitely keep going at your dream if finance is your passion. If you have strong interpersonal skills and are good at the analytical portions of your job, of which there'll be plenty, you'll be OK.

protectedclass's picture

Tell your friend the PhD,

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 3:08am

Tell your friend the PhD, that he needs to understand "sampling bias" before he writes anymore papers.

helpmepleasethx's picture

Asian, interested

(Gorilla, 524
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 3:32am

Asian, interested

Powa23's picture

I remember reading this in an

(Orangutan, 291
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 4:00am

I remember reading this in an article somewhere but they attributed this to the simple fact that not that many minorities entered finance until the 90's. Even during the middle to late 90's many people who entered finance were still of the old boys club variety. Nowadays its quite common ( maybe more than common) to see an Asian in finance. Maybe after a decade, the vast influx of minorities who enter finance right now will move onto the MD level of the firm. Just look at people at Qatalyst,they have three Asian MD who went into finance around the 2000s and lots and lots of East Asian analysts and associates.

I think the bamboo ceiling is vastly exaggerated. Its not that uncommon either to see an Asian person in the MD level especially in the West Coast and there isn't a inherent bias against Asians in finance. As long as you can perform and you are sociable, you should be totally fine.

Voltaire X's picture

To be honest, I think AA

ST
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 4:15am

To be honest, I think AA policies actually hurt minorities in the long run. But I think that's a bit of a tangent.

CHItizen's picture

I think you're overthinking

(Gorilla, 557
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 4:18am

I think you're overthinking things. There are a number of different Asian-Americans who are prominent in business that I could point to, but no amount would probably be enough (Stephen Chao and Jerry Yang are two that come to mind immediately; if you're looking for pure finance, how about Ping Jiang or if you're looking at dealmakers, the Greenhill MD who brought in the ATT/T-Mobile deal was Asian, and yes, I realize it fell apart). The point is that it's possible for an Asian-American to attain the highest level of business in the US. If the only reason your friend didn't return to GS was because of this, then I don't think he made a very good decision; there's no way the sample sizes we're using could be anywhere close to being statistically significant, and while I realize that's not how we make decisions in real life, I still think it's a very narrow minded view. After all, there's nothing that says that unless you make MD at GS by a certain age, then you fail at life.

Another point that's been raised is why Indian Americans tend to succeed more in finance than (East) Asian Americans, and I think this is a very valid question. It seems that you can extend this trend more generally to the entirety of the business world as well. My answer to this is that while both groups are traditionally associated with highly skilled positions (doctors, engineers, computer scientists), Indian culture is more embracing of business careers and aspirations. Part of this is because East Asian cultures place a huge emphasis on the group over the individual, meaning there is pressure to conform. While conformity has its advantages in some situations, in the corporate workplace, it's not very conducive to getting noticed and therefore promoted.

Additionally, this focus on the group's well-being also encourages risk-aversion in most East Asians; careers in medicine or engineering are viewed as 'safe' in that unless something really bad happens (i.e. losing your license to practice medicine), you're going to have a marketable skill that's in demand. On the other hand, business, and to an even greater extent, finance, is seen as much more risky; it's a foregone conclusion that recessions will occur, and that during these recessions, jobs will be cut. When my Asian roommate in college told his parents that he wanted to accept his IBD offer and not go to grad school, they didn't flip out per se but they sure tried to talk him into doing something more 'tangible'.

Anyway, the bottom line is that your race/ethnicity/gender/whatever doesn't define you. It's a part of your identity, but it's only as important as you let it be.

CHItizen's picture

bbjhva: We all know brown

(Gorilla, 557
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 4:19am
bbjhva:

We all know brown people face a lot more racism than Asians...!

Only in TSA security lines...

futurectdoc's picture

I think that what determines

IB
(King Kong, 1,675
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 4:19am

I think that what determines your long term ability to succeed in IB is your soft skills. My MD last summer wasn't a financier first and foremost, yes he was good at it, but he was a hard sciences PhD. His strength was his people skills. He had a great Rolodex, was a great networker and that's why he succeeded. A lot of Asian people I have known make incredible analysts, but lack in the soft skills that make you ultimately a good SVP/Director/MD.

melvvvar's picture

seedy

(King Kong, 1,693
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 4:49am
seedy underbelly:

Interesting. Asian-Indians, in comparison, tend to have little problem with the 'bamboo ceiling'. In fact, considering their share of the US population (0.9%), they've done exceptionally well. CEO of Pepsi, Citigroup, McKinsey, Deans of Harvard Business School and UChicago Booth, several of the top (not the very top, obviously) executives at Goldman, Blackstone, Bain Capital, Governors of two States, etc.

I personally think it has to do with the personality types of the East Asians who do end up going into finance. At my school at least, all are incredibly intense, focused, and of course smart. The Indians, in comparison, are all of that and also, crucially, laid back. Meh, just a theory.

spoken like a true college kid.

wait til you work a couple of years boy and let me know how this theory of yours works in your life.

jgx101's picture

YOU'RE OVERTHINKING IT. ASIAN

IB
(Orangutan, 356
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 5:38am

YOU'RE OVERTHINKING IT. ASIAN AMERICANS ARE OBVIOUSLY VERY AMERICANIZED, AND THE NEXT GENERATION OF ASIANS WILL HAVE MANY MORE PEOPLE IN HIGHER MANAGEMENT.
IN FACT, MY EX-GIRLFRIEND'S COUSIN'S BROTHER'S FRIEND'S DAD IS A PARTNER AT A TOP BB, AND I KNOW OF SEVERAL OTHERS THAT ARE GETTING THERE.

SaucyBacon85's picture

CHItizen: the bottom line is

CO
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 6:47am
CHItizen:

the bottom line is that your race/ethnicity/gender/whatever doesn't define you. It's a part of your identity, but it's only as important as you let it be.

Amen

__________

Ultima-RDK's picture

goldman in da house:

CD
(Orangutan, 305
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 6:57am
goldman in da house:

Nevertheless, I can't seem to think of a single important Asian-American financier in the United States among the hundreds of important American financiers out there today.

Here's another notable Asian-American financier: Chinh Chu. Look up his story -- very fascinating.

In summary, he fled to America from Vietnam at a very young age (Vietnam War), learned good engrish, funded his own education at a NON-TARGET (for all you monkeys out there) as a door-to-door salesman/telemarketer, and became one of Blackstone's youngest senior managing directors.

Some years back he closed the Celanese deal -- the largest public-to-private deal in European history. He's now co-chair of their private equity division / serves on the exec committee.

Oh, and he owns the top penthouse in the Trump Tower. What a boss.

Sometimes lies are more dependable than the truth.

EUInvestor11's picture

This question is full of

O
(Chimp, 11
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 7:11am

This question is full of stereotypes and bias.
Once you've grown up out of them maybe you might have a chance at IB.

Macro Arbitrage's picture

seedy underbelly: In fact,

HF
(King Kong, 1,369
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 7:32am

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

Human's picture

The funny thing is that I

PE
(King Kong, 1,891
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 7:50am

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

TonyPerkis's picture

melvvvar: seedy

AM
(King Kong, 1,578
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 9:06am

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

UFOinsider's picture

This: goldman in da

O
(Human, 10,349
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 8:58am

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

JaLe2286's picture

Human: The funny thing is

(Monkey, 46
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 9:39am
TheMasao's picture

Your core issue is that

PE
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 10:00am
cokeaddict's picture

Human: The funny thing is

IB
(Monkey, 45
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 10:01am
lil_barac's picture

in ib, as long as u close, u

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 10:18am
prospie's picture

I love how people get their

(King Kong, 1,682
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 10:36am

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Semitarget's picture

Listen, you're just

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 10:37am
harvardgrad08's picture

I would say the primary

CD
(Gorilla, 606
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 11:57am
JobHopeful's picture

Honestly, I think that asians

AM
(Monkey, 38
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 10:46am
bulge_bracket's picture

It's just cultural. Many

(Orangutan, 258
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 10:49am
AlsatianCousin's picture

I hate to say it, but

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 11:12am
hopesanddreams's picture

If you look around on

(Orangutan, 329
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 11:16am
UFOinsider's picture

AlsatianCousin: I hate to say

O
(Human, 10,349
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 11:45am

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

tchekm845's picture

I agree with most of the

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 11:30am
Ovechkin08's picture

Robert Kiyosaki anyone......

O
(Orangutan, 306
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 11:41am
Quarterlife's picture

TheMasao: Your core issue is

CO
(Orangutan, 329
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 11:52am

My formula for success is rise early, work late and strike oil - JP Getty

gamenumbers's picture

Anecdotal, but Asians were

IB
(Gorilla, 678
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 12:04pm
jesus of nazareth's picture

Let's face it. Asians are

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 12:11pm
lil_barac's picture

follow what you really wanna

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 12:28pm
Nobama88's picture

It has nothing to do with

RE
(King Kong, 1,676
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 12:37pm

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Nobama88's picture

nm

RE
(King Kong, 1,676
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 12:37pm

Need to Land a Job? Click Here.

melvvvar's picture

Nobama88: It has nothing to

(King Kong, 1,693
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 12:57pm
YMCM-IB's picture

....

 
Points)
 on 4/27/12 at 12:11am
YMCM-IB's picture

As more first generation

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 1:29pm
SC911's picture

ASIAN SENSATION

(Baboon, 118
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 1:53pm
IRSPB's picture

Dunno about others but

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 2:42pm
Macro Arbitrage's picture

^ Please don't bring fairy

HF
(King Kong, 1,369
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 2:56pm

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

IRSPB's picture

Macro Arbitrage: ^ Please

 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 3:01pm
Human's picture

Macro Arbitrage: ^ Please

PE
(King Kong, 1,891
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 3:06pm

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

Gate_Crasher's picture

Wrong.

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 3:34pm
Gate_Crasher's picture

IRSPB: Dunno about others but

IB
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 3:36pm
CaliforniaAnalyst's picture

asian girls do pretty good

ST
(Gorilla, 656
 
Points)
 on 4/24/12 at 3:38pm

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