Best Advanced Financial Modeling Course?
I work at a small PE firm who wants to send myself (2nd yr analyst) and an Associate (MBA grad) to an advanced modeling course. We both have solid modeling and excel skills, but need to be fine-tuned. What are the top advanced modeling courses out there that would fit our experience?
I know there are plenty of beginner courses, but we need something a little more advanced that is worth the expense and work time lost. Any thoughts?
Edit: I've looked into Training the Street which appears to have a solid 5-day program, but hard to tell looking at a brochure.
Breaking Into Wall Street has some advanced modeling courses in addition to the basics, and you can customize which ones you want. It's helped out a lot of people on this site, myself included.
They were wanting something a little more in depth and intense with in-person classes. Essentially, because my PE shop is pretty small, they do not have their own standardized practices. We are going to attempt to take the best of what we learn and establish the framework going forward.
TMA does some sweet online seminars about cash flow modeling that could be useful... got exposure to it through the firm I interned with this summer, definitely helpful stuff outside of the normal realm of IB/PE modeling
Just a heads up to anyone hitting this old discussion: I put together a side by side comparison of the top financial modeling training courses here: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/financial-modeling-training
Best advanced modelling course? (Originally Posted: 10/25/2013)
I barely do any modelling at work, so I'm looking to brush up my modelling skills a bit. I don't need the basics and am looking for a course that best covers more advanced concepts such as complex debt strucutres, NOLs, etc. I'm not looking for anything specific, but rather to fill any gaps in my knowledge. I've been considering either BIWS Advanced or WSP Premium, but I'm not sure which covers the advanced topics in more detail?
BIWS
BIWS here too. Great and is actually fun (if you enjoy finance). You can access it forever and from anywhere. Best $300 or so I've ever spent.
I like WSP. More technical models than BIWS (although BIWS does cover NOL's too)
Compare ADVANCED self study modeling materials? (Originally Posted: 12/27/2010)
Hi all,
Can someone recommend me an excellent advanced self-study modeling package? My criteria are: extremely in-depth, comprehensive, advanced level, priced at ~$300. I'm looking for LBO and M&A modeling specifically (not much else out there, I suppose).
I've heard of these possible services:
WallStreetPrep: Advanced LBO Modeling BIWS: Advanced Financial Modeling Wall St Training: Super Complex M&A LBO Modeling (they doth protest too much, though sounds interesting. $750, though) Wall St Training: Advanced Financial Modeling ($600) Training the Street: Financial Modeling (not sure how advanced it is)
Can anyone opine? Why is WST so expensive, for instance?
they are all fine (a few of them are identical) - how in depth do you want to get? i think you should get the investment banking book by rosenbaum and pearl for the best / economical combination of self study materials.
in all honesty, there's only so much these training programs will teach you. its the on the job training that really teaches you.
Yep, I have that book. The LBO model there is pretty good, probably the best section of the book.
But I feel it's still not enough. I'm looking to go deep into certain topics not covered in usual modeling courses (taxes, NOLs, PP&E schedules, etc., all done in LBOs and normal mergers). I've got the general aspect of A/D and LBO down more or less.
Sources advanced modelling skills. (Originally Posted: 01/07/2009)
hi guys,
I'm looking for your opinion on the best material (books, training material etc.) on a number of topics:
Advanced LBO modelling (I already looked at the WSPREP and find it ok for basic understanding, however nothing like full blown real world LBO models)
Best material on building sophisticated Scenarios e.g. for downside business cases
Deal structures (insight into the +/- of various deal structures)
Excel functionality (best material on the most common functions, tools & features used in Corporate finance modeling & data presentation purposes)
I'm looking for stuff you guys use in your work environment to refresh/look-up info.
Thx guys your insight is greatly appreciated!
In all honesty:
as far as commonly used excel functionality, thats something you'll learn with experience. Someone can list offsets, match, choose, etc... but you wont really need it until you come to a point where you need to do something specific and figure it out on your own.
IMO, there is nothing sophisticated about alternate scenarios. You've got your base case which is founded on a plethora of assumptions which are determined on a case by case situation. The downside case may just be EBITDA margins capped at historical levels as opposed to the very optimistic levels forecasted in the base case, or EBITDA margins/rev growth achieving historic levels at terminal year and trended between now and then. Or EBITDA margins taken down for X, Y, Z consideration, you get the hint.
An easy way to build a downside case is to take a basket of Wall Street analyst reports(which may or may not be hard to come by depending on the resources available to you) and have a mean EBITDA margin and Revenue growth for an industry, or even for your specific subject company if its well covered. In crude terms, you have your base case which you came up with in Oct 08, you take the mean analyst Rev and EBITDA margin from Oct analyst reports, and you take the mean from most recent analyst reports and proportionally adjust your forecasts downward for the appropriate periods depending on how Wall St analysts future expectations have changed. Thats a simple method for your purposes (I'm assuming you a college student trying to teach yourself).
Deal structures can be very very made to order. I read a book when I was in college published by Harvard Business review, it was called.... HBS: Mergers & Acquisitions, a round table discussion... I think, I could be wrong. It was good for my purposes at that time.
lbo models... Damadoran has a simple lbo model on his site, I took it apart while I was in college and didn't learn much from it, but thats me. A self-study or prep course may be best for this.
IMO, the absolute best way to learn this stuff is to look at SEC filings and press releases of actual deals that are going on and try to model them. That will teach you a lot, especially in terms of deal structure/stragey. And it will bring you to a point where you need to learn how to do certain things and learn how to be efficient in excel and otherwise.
Here's a pretty good one for free... obv missing the operating model, but you build that out on a case by case basis once you know the drivers..
www.exinfm.com/excel%20files/LBO%20Model%20Template.xls
The lbo model is the easy part. It's always the operating model that results in 20 tabs and all the work.
thx for the feedback so far guys.
excel functionality: I know what you mean, but thats exactly why when I come to that point where I need to look up on how to do a certain thing, I would like a decent book where it shows me how a corporate finance issue can be efficiently modelled making use function x (that function being one which I probably previously didnt even know existed)....I'm not interesseded in modelling portfolios, bonds, complex options, etc many Excel books discuss.
Downside scenario: thx for the insight...it adresses how you would directly adjust EBITDA margin sensibly in a downside case...however I was thinking more alongside the structural step by step development of a downside case...ideally you would want to arrive at EBITDA by adjusting top line, capex, etc. etc..
deal structure: do you mean this one?
http://www.Amazon.com/Harvard-Business-Review-Mergers-Acquisitions/dp/1578515556/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231424065&sr=8-1
lbo models: could it really be that there is no proper material out there that covers LBO modelling in detail?? (i.e. for use in PE)
another issue I have:
all those introductory materials, such as dealmaven, WSPREP, etc...are ok for getting passed the interview stage i.e. superficially....but many blantly treat as an exapmle Net debt as: Debt-Cash. ....a highly simplistic approach...what about a text which goes into proper detail i.e. talking about debt like items to watch out for e.g. unfunded pension obligations...or informs the reader that cash positions need to be adjusted for trapped cash, etc... So what I am more talking about is: developing the ability to intelligently discuss/apply financial Issues/structures with MDs, helping in not only executing but also making my own suggestions...there must be something which assists this process, can't be that you can only wait to till an issue comes along on the job...
Thx for your help guys!
Excel is made with a very broad range of applications. Outside of IRR, NPV, PV, and FV functions there isn't anything that address corporate finance.
Structurally making a downside case, anchor certain variables to the appropriate assumptions (WC as a % of sales etc...) You'd be surprised at how few adjustments (atleast I've seen) are made for a downside case. In a downside case you should slant revenues downward, squeeze margins, and reduce discretionary cash outflow(reduce CapEx, eliminate optional amortization, decrease minimum cash balance if possible), simplified: yes, adequate: yes.
The other stuff you're talking about, yes the only way to learn it is on the job. No one on this board can teach it to you in a thread, nor will you be able to make any suggestions that aren't vocally or silently laughable, having never worked on a deal in your life.
It seems like you have a good understanding so far, if you're trying to get a leg up in interviews, what you know seems to be adequate so long as your comfortable talking about it. You will NEVER be able to make any suggestions to an MD about how to deal with a facet of a deal in an interview having never worked in IBD. Most likely you'll end up in over your head and either the interviewer will feel like "ok, atleast you knew more than most" or you will really rub them the wrong way by acting like a know-it-all and not being able to back it up. None of this stuff is really sophisticated stuff, its just stuff you learn through experience.
If you're interviewing, knowing this stuff shows a higher level of interest and initiative. Once you know more than most, as it seems you already do, you already accomplished that and by attempting to discuss it in any further detail opens you up to get blown out of the water, like interviewers like to do when a candidate starts talking about stuff he/she marginally understands. Truth be told, until you've done a deal, you marginally understand it, no matter how many books you've read.
You can check out http://www.macabacus.com. It has a lot of free information, including modeling examples, on the subjects that you're interested in.
lucky are you a rising junior or going into FT recruiting? (or neither?)
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