I couldn't decide whether to post this in this forum or the business school forum, but decided that there are more people that are out of college with actual jobs that look here, so this is what I went with.
For those of you that frequent this boards, I've been pretty open with my background, but to refresh: have ~4.5 years of S&O/boutique firm experience, mostly focused on CFO work. Recently applied and was accepted into three b-schools with hopes of getting a job at MBB or a boutique strategy shop (obviously will shoot for MBB). Longer-term goals are more unclear, but probably something in the Media or Sports (wrote my essays about sports), but certainly not tied to it.
My choices are as follows: Tuck, Sloan, and Columbia. I'm pretty excited about all three of these, and am struggling to even determine an initial leader. For those of you that actually work at the places above, what are your thoughts? Is there any material difference between these schools as far as recruiting goes? What about if I would prefer to work in NYC/NJ?
Obviously understand that there are a bunch of other factors that should and will go into my decision, but I'm curious from a strictly short-term goal standpoint if people think there are any real considerations that I should take into account.
check out their employment reports
the more people they send to MBB, the better
All three will likely get you interviews at MBB if you put in the legwork (I can personally attest to this as a student at one of the three you mentioned). I believe Sloan and Tuck do a better job placing people at MBB on a per-capita basis than CBS, especially when you remove the sponsored students from CBS's employment report, but that may be somewhat a reflection of the interests of the respective student bodies. If you are at all interested in sports and are undecided between the three, don't forget about the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference. The organizers all have incredible exposure to bigwigs in the sports industry. That said, if you're legitimately interested in media, CBS would likely be better to explore that interest.
PM me if you want to talk further.
(I got interviewed at all three schools, got into two of them, and attend one.)
From my understanding, Kellogg should be near or at the top of any list not including H/S. INSEAD for non US.
I'd say that they're all good enough that you should make your decision based on other factors, especially since these schools are all far, far different from one another.
(Were it up to me, I'd probably go to Tuck.)
You should look into location specific offers for all the schools. If I recall correctly, most of Tuck alumni ended up in Boston area. Not sure where MIT stands.
You said you want to work in NY. Go to Columbia.
You know, MAYBE you should get your first IB SA stint before you give advice on which b-school someone should choose in order to land an MBB Consulting role...
Tuck would be my pick because of the incredibly loyal alumni network.
I'd go to sloan hands down. In terms of rep, MIT would be the winner, no?
All of those schools will get you the interviews. It's up to you to close it, regardless of which program you're in. Go to whichever school you feel like you have the best fit. Looking for a tight-knit community in a college town setting? Tuck! Looking to spend the next two years in NYC? Columbia! Maybe an interest in tech, or looking to be in a very academic-friendly environment? Sloan!
Basically sums up my thoughts at this point. Think I've narrowed it down to Tuck and Sloan, but struggling to decide what aspects of each I value more.
Thanks for all the responses.
If sports is your end goal, Sloan is compelling. http://www.sloansportsconference.com
Have you made a choice yet? Don't really have much value to add (senior in college), but would be interested in what school you decided to go to.
In general, Harvard and Stanford should be the best choices for consulting in the US and in Europe I think INSEAD is the clear #1.
As for your situation, I actually think, that Tuck would be your best bet. The Alumni network is very strong and should allow you to at least get interviews with MBB without issues.
Yeah, as big a fan as I am about Kellogg, someone pulled an IlliniProgrammer here by randomly trying to sell a Midwestern school that OP had specifically avoided mentioning after Round 1 admit time. The choices seem to be Tuck, Columbia, and Sloan.
Tuck is going to have a number of vociferous alumni show up promoting it. They have their points, but I think the MBA rankings and the overall university rankings period also matter.
MIT and Sloan are the highest ranked schools in most rankings. I'd choose Sloan. That's just me.
If Tuck or Columbia are offering you money, the answer might change. Remember that $160K might be a year's pay and perhaps 2-3 years' savings as a consultant. You may want to shop this a bit. Call up the most expensive school on the list, say that you're thinking about them but you can do MIT Sloan for $X, are they willing to deal? Then just go around a couple times and see if you can negotiate some scholarships or tuition breaks.
Hell, I'd consider CBS over Sloan primarily based on not having to deal with Bostonian winters. That, and I happen to really like crowded, slightly dirty places.
I participated in the MIT Sports Analytics Conference. Resume booster like no other. I'd go to Sloan if I were you.
if you Really want to do MBB, you need to withdraw from all of these schools and get into INSEAD. Let me know if you need further clarification.
Think about it - 1+ year program, europe, still very prestigious... if you were sponsored, and didn't care to do the traditional bschool program, but rather just wanted to get it over with quickly, have some fun, and re-enter the workforce, wouldn't you go to INSEAD? Just playing devil's advocate here...
yes there are a lot of sponsored students. But also a lot of non-previous MBB got recruited as well.
That may actually be true, considering their placement stats.
The thing is, a HUGE number of people in INSEAD was in MBB already with a return offer before they started school. I guess you develop a strong network but the placement stat is somewhat misleading
Can't go wrong with any of those options.
Took me a little while to re-find this, but check out this link: http://poetsandquants.com/2012/06/22/b-schools-that-churn-out-consultan…
Thanks again, everyone. As Illini mentioned, I pretty clearly have three choices, none of which are Kellogg or INSEAD. They are both great schools, but neither made much sense for me. I have strong ties to the east coast, and only applied to schools there. I also don't think Kellogg necessarily places that much better at MBB overall, and certainly not MBB on the east coast. INSEAD barely places at all in the US, so that would make zero sense. Also, let's be serious, why would one "withdraw from these schools" and "enroll" (because it's that easy) in INSEAD?
Also, Illini, I like the ideas about money. It's definitely worth seeing if I can get some sort of break, since I wasn't offered money anywhere. Would be a nice, easy tiebreaker for me since I'm still pretty torn.
only reason INSEAD doesen't place in the US is because most people at INSEAD have no desire to work in teh US. However, having said that, most people that decided to apply to US offices got the offers. (I am not saying that just by going to INSEAD you will automatically get these offers, the few students that took US offers, were very qualified)
and btw, I was obviously being facetious on withdrawing from the schools you got into. I think with good networking and endless case interview practice, you can definitely have a great chance at MBB at any of those schools.
And to answer your question, I would probably do MIT over Columbia and Tuck.
If you want to do MBB in NYC/NJ why not go to Columbia? I'm not following why people are pushing Tuck/Sloan. I've seen people from those schools obviously in BB/MBB but Columbia you're already in NYC with ample opportunity to intern/network plus they have a strong finance program.
The reason is that it's just as easy, if not easier, to land an MBB job in NYC from Sloan and Tuck than it is at CBS. Consulting recruiting isn't like banking recruiting; applicants from the Boston schools never have to travel to NYC for networking. Therefore, the OP is allowed to focus on more important things like school culture and fit.
You can also consider schools with top operations strategy curriculums like Cornell Johnson and Carnegie Mellon Tepper. A lot of people from CMU at McKinsey these days.
I'm curious: Does anyone have specific MBB placement numbers for Tepper?
I got to one of those 3 so I have a pretty big bias - but look at not just employment stats (and how many go to MBB) but also percentage of the class that goes there. Happy to chat privately if you'd like.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and opinions. For those curious, I finally came to a decision this weekend, and will be going to Tuck in the fall. This post is incredibly long, but wrote this up in an email for someone, so thought I would share with you guys as well that are interested.
Disclaimer: these are based on my impressions of the schools. Everyone’s research is different, and I'm sure many would disagree with me. People like KingFalcon are awesome Sloan ambassadors, and were tough to turn down.
Decision Point 1: Recruiting The first thing I tried to figure out was recruiting. Based on initial impressions, I had some minor worries that Tuck might be more of a regional placer at the consulting firms, so I wanted to find out how that worked (given my goal of ended up in NYC/CT/NJ). I talked to a few different people, including those that recruited for non-Boston offices at all the different firms, and got first and second round interviews at least. I heard of people in this year’s class getting offers at almost every single Bain and McKinsey office that I could think of, including some of the smaller ones on the east coast like New Jersey for McK and BCG, which really excited me. Side note: Tuck Class of 2014 is absolutely crushing consulting recruiting this year. Definitely something for people on the fence to think about.
Decision Point 2: Comfort zone? Once I was comfortable with consulting recruiting for both schools (I never had as many doubts about Sloan), it basically became a directional decision. I don't like to use "fit", because frankly, I was trying to decide if I wanted to seek out fit or not. Sloan is a bit more outside my comfort zone in terms of people and atmosphere. Tuck is very similar to what I’m used to from an environment (small school, insulated atmosphere) and people perspective. I had some people close to me that thought it would be really good for me to go outside my comfort zone, meaning Sloan. For a while I agreed with them and thought that was what I should do, and that it'll be a great place and a great learning environment for me. I was leaning towards Sloan.
At some point, however, I took a step back and figured out what I should get out of business school. Essentially, I want to go to a place that allows me to grow and excel. While I have no doubt that I would be fine at both schools, I started to realize that Sloan might well be a place that suppresses some of my biggest strengths. I do think that Sloan has this unique energy and aura to it, but I actually think that it's much more of an individual energy. That entrepreneurial spirit that is so evident, seemed to me to be more about individuals (or a couple of people) working on their goals. That's inspiring and really cool, but is not exactly what I want. I tend to rise in atmospheres where everyone works together and is on the same page, and in my eyes, Tuck is much more of a full-class collaborative place. I see myself flourishing there because it's a place where you have a bunch of people on the same page, and I look forward to stepping up and driving the direction of things.
Decision Point 3: Partners Beyond that, I had some worries about the Sloan partner situation, probably related to the above. I asked multiple people if partners are a part of the community, and my typical response back was "yeah, I guess some of them make friends with each other because they come from abroad and don't know anyone". That really scared me - at Tuck, and even Columbia actually, I get incredibly strong responses about how people love their friends partners more than them, etc.. That was another thing that reinforced my thoughts about the slightly more individualistic nature of the community - it's not that people don't like each other and make friends, it's just that the overall class (to me) does not seem as together. Same goes for the spouses. I know KingFalcon will disagree with me on this one, and he had an entirely different impression when he went to AdMIT weekend (and after his first semester). Unfortunately, impressions are impressions – hard to ignore.
At Tuck, the spouse situation is amazing. They informally guarantee a job for spouses, and more importantly, the spouses are as enthusiastic about being a spouse as the students are about the school. Everyone is super tight-knit, but I also have some family and other friends up there, which will make the remote location a bit easier to handle and will allow us to get away from the Tuck bubble at times when we need to (or she needs to). Plus skiing, which I really cannot wait for.
Decision Point 4: The Future This one sort of dawned on me in the last few days as well, is that I want to be more like Tuck alums when I grow up (joke, sort of). Having talked to a few slightly more elder alums from each school, I genuinely see myself as being like the Tuck alums and not Sloan ones. I find the older Tuck alums are an impressive blend of successful, down to earth, and generally fun and outgoing. The Sloan ones are incredibly impressive and successful, but I found them to be a bit more intense, and less outgoing. Again, this goes back to the comfort zone thing, but I want to be supported by and surrounded by like-minded people in terms of those values. It's one of the things I cherish most about my undergrad, and while Tuck will be similar, it's not something I want to get away from if I don't have to.
Decision Point 5: Make up for what's missing I knew that whichever school I picked, I'd be missing out on some incredible opportunities. I am really going to miss some things about Sloan. The Sports Analytics Conference will be a huge thing to miss out on, as will the incredible diversity of the class and the entrepreneurial ventures that the students think of. I absolutely plan to find a way to get involved in the conference anyway, and one of my biggest goals for first year is to make sure that we have a team that goes and does something there. Essentially, I figure it's up to me to mold my Tuck experience to make up for what I'd miss out on at Sloan, which I think is doable. At Sloan, i think it'd be harder to mold my experience to gain what I'd miss out on from Tuck.
Make sense? Probably not, but I feel good about it. Again, I want to disclaim that these are MY IMPRESSIONS based on the people that I have talked to. I could easily have flipped a coin on this one and sold Sloan in a similar manner. As many have said on here, it’s really a fit decision, but one that I really wanted to boil down to some actual reasons.
SB'ed for sharing :) Thanks BGP and best of luck! Hopefully you will continue sticking around and share your insight / experience with us.
As a former Tuckie I am glad to read your post. I had the exact same rationale and I believe Tuck was a great choice. Tuck is pretty isolated so when recruiters are coming they generally stay all day on campus and sometimes several days hence a lot of opportunities to network in a small class (~250 students). One key element when reviewing B-School is also to understand how they manage the on-campus recruiting process during the 2nd year :each company indicates the number of interviews slots available, 50% of the interviewees will be decided by the company through the review of resumes and 50% will be open for sealed bidding (when the on-campus recruiting starts each student receives the same number of points which he can allocate across as many companies as he wants) hence if you really want to force your interview with a few companies you can absolutely make it happen. This is a massive aspect and very rarely discussed or asked about during MBA selection process...I am sure other schools have somewhat similar systems but some are definitely 100% decided by the employer...
Your point about your partner and the community life is one of the most critical, Tuck is certainly like a big family and you will build amazing relationship. Given the size of the class you will not find 50 Tuckies in all the companies in the world but you will one or two who will do everything they can to help you.
Best of luck and get in touch if any questions.
Great analysis, BGP! It sounds like you were truly honest with yourself and made a decision that's best for your specific situation.
For what it's worth, the friends I have at Tuck rave about it
Proof that numbers aren't everything and sometimes it just comes down to culture and fit. Thanks for sharing.
Agreed. I do think people in a situation like this one owe it to themselves to do a detailed analysis of the numbers for what they want to do. I don't mean rankings, but placement. As for rankings, the difference between 4th and 9th in USNews (or 6th and 8th in P&Q) is so marginal to me that I simply don't care. I've always considered these schools to be essentially equal.
Back to placement, once I got comfortable with the numbers, however, it was 100% a cultural decision. I had to figure out what I wanted out of b-school. That differs for everyone, so very important to really be honest and think hard about what you really want.
How much time did you spend at each school before making your decision? Were there any R1 accepted student weekends or anything like that? Did you have friends at either school?
Anyway, congrats -- my two top choices are Tuck and MIT, both for very different reasons. Here's to hoping my early April is like your December.
BGP - congrats! I've been following your journey from afar, and I know you'll have a kick-ass time at Tuck.
^ Thanks for the reply - good stuff. Going to send a PM your way in a few.
HBS or bust.
Hey, I'm at one of the M7 schools (not ones mentioned in your list of 3), and I just finished with the summer recruiting season. I think people put way too much stock into the ability of different M7 schools to affect your recruiting chances.
Everyone who really wanted to get an interview with any of the MBB got one (meaning put in the legwork to do some effective networking. All the firms will make themselves available to you at M7 schools). Once you land an interview, I believe it's a pretty level playing field. On the margin, some schools may have better interview preparation clubs than others, but that's about it. Make your decision based on fit/strengths of each school. With the exception of some super elite VC/HF/PE jobs, there's a fairly level playing field in terms of your job chances.
@JankyJatt Agreed completely. If you read my overly detailed decision analysis, I basically concluded that between the two schools I ultimately decided between, Sloan and Tuck, there was essentially no difference in chances of first round interview invites. That's why my decisions was made on all the other aspects you described.
Contrary to what you said, however, I felt like based on the 10 or so people I talked to, Columbia had a worse rate at landing those interviews, even for people that put a lot of effort into MBB recruiting. My sample size could obviously have been way too small, but I did actually feel that there was a meaningful difference, even if my chances would still have been fine at CBS (which I'm sure they would have been).
Best B-Schools to break into MBB (Originally Posted: 09/06/2010)
Hey!
A friend of mine who works at an MBB firm told me about the internal statistics of MBA hires this year. The numbers are not really different from what is common knowledge in this forum but you may be interested in knowing anyways:
These are the Top 15 MBA schools:
26% Wharton 22% HBS 15% Kellogg 11% Chicago Booth 9% Stanford GSB 4% Columbia GSB 2% MIT Sloan 2% Yale 2% Michigan Ross 1% Berkeley Haas 1% Duke Fuqua 1% Tuck 1% McCombs 1% HKS 1% NYU Stern
Cheerioh!
thanks for the post
consider two things in taking whatever you take from this list
1) these are not considered to be the "top" jobs to land out of business school. i hate ranking that stuff but it demonstrates my point here. 2) the class sizes at the above schools vary greatly. for instance stanford representing 9% of all mckinsey bain bcg hires probably means a good % of the class is going there.
not sure what people are indeed taking from this post, but something to consider
INSEAD places very well in consulting too.
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