I'll be starting with MBB soon and wanted to know if there's a preferred traveler's credit card out there. Amex (gold or platinum)? or Chase? What are the pros and cons, and which do consultants generally have. I currently have a Visa card but it doesn't seem that this is popular with management consultants.
Thanks for your replies.
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You'll get issued a corporate Amex, most of us use that. A few people use the SPG Amex but for most of the convenience of having expenses show up automatically in the reporting system (which the corporate Amex does) outweighs the incremental points you get from the SPG card.
My MBB doesn't have an auto-reporting system, so few people use the corporate card. If it did, I would probably put all minor expenses on it and use a personal card (Chase sapphire/amex spg) for the big stuff (flights, hotel, big dinners) where the points are significant enough to be worth my time.
As is, I have to fill out an expense report for everything anyways so I mix and match to optimize points. Use the AmEx SPG for hotels, chase sapphire for travel/dining. Discover's rotating 5% is currently ground travel, so using that for rentals/taxis. Considering getting a Southwest Rapid Rewards card for the sign-up bonus/to hit Companion Pass a few months earlier.
The downside of doing what I do is my personal/business spend is mixed so it's harder to track and keep a personal budget. But my current monthly cost of living comes nowhere close to my after-taxes take-home pay, so I know that as long as I don't do anything super crazy, I'm fine.
If it's important to you to keep your personal/business spend separate, I'd recommend just getting one card, maybe two, for all your business expenses, and in that case, the Chase Sapphire preferred/Amex SPG are probably the way to go.
cons: generally more pain in the ass when doing expenses not to use corporate coard
pros:
First and foremost I recommend you visit this website (thepointsguy.com) as it will provide a wealth of information on this subject.
1) SPG Amex on all SPG stays IMO massively out weighs the minor inconvenience created by not having the ability to automatically import expenses from corp amex - take the SPG platinum challenge and couple it with this card and you'll be rolling in the points and suite night upgrades
2) Dependent on your local hub (Chase Sapphire or Delta Platinum/Reserve Amex) for booking travel if you don't book through internal booking site - While Delta's skymiles don't have the highest conversion rate, it can be worth it if you're near a delta hub
Just my thoughts...
Best practice, in my opinion, is to have a few cards that are for business only. For example, my SPG card I use only for work expenses.
Thanks devildog2027, BigPicture, humblebot and 6pence for your replies.
From what I can understand, it seems corporate Amex is great for the convenience and but the personal card is better for points. But is it possible to get "personal" points from using the corporate Amex, even if the rate of accumulating the points is less than using a personal card?
Thanks
Yes, but at my firm (Deloitte S&O) you have to pay for the annual $95 membership fee to enroll in rewards points. Still, given that we run easily 50k worth of expenses throughout the year, its worth it.
That's great to know, Niubi. Thanks
This varies by firm, BTW.
One firm paid the fee and got us Amex Plat, the other does not.
I believe veterans get automatic Amex Plat, which lets you get points without paying the $95. Just a fun FYI...
Conversion rate for Amex points is pretty low though... To give you an example they convert one to one with most major airlines (~$0.01 per mile), 3 to 1 for spg points, and you're not really going to shop with them. (example: 16GB Apple IPad Air 2 with 20% points discount is currently listed for 165,800 Amex points. Said differently you would have had to accumulated $165,800.00 in send before you could purchase a $499.00 product) Roughly $0.003 per Amex point.
Everyone's situation and priorities are different so there's no one right answer. Wait till you get on your first engagement and you'll quickly find out what will work best for you.
Yeah but you chose the worst possible example. In that case you would just convert them to a cash card and then buy the $499 product.
Amex membership rewards can always get half a cent ($0.005) for a cash card. So at least half a cent.
All of the gift cards are a cent per point ($0.01). So really, they're AT LEAST worth a cent each.
And then the best deal on MR is miles, which generaly convert at 1:1. I've gotten a smuch as 4-5 cents per united mile before on international flights.
So yeah, figure a penny a point for MR, which is the basic gift card conversion rate. Potentially more if you go the miles route.
DONT DO THE Barclays US AIRWAYS CARD
I got it hoping to spend the like $300 to get X0,000 miles only to realize it isnt even a full ticket and there are huge fees on redeeming points
The SPG for hotel stays, Delta Platinum card for airlines (or whatever airline you fly... I only fly Delta cause they have the crossover rewards with SPG). All other purchases I use the corporate card since they're typically small and not worth the hassle of trying to track. Hotel and flight are typically the biggest purchases so it's easy to track those and bring them into the expense report. I've heard decent things about the chase sapphire, but I haven't made the switch to them.
-IBT
Sounds like a good plan
AmEx SPG has been the card of choice for a while when I started as an analyst back in 08, and continue to be. The math is just better.
So you use this for all expenses?
I used to when I was in consulting. In banking, not allowed to use non firm card. Still run it up for personal expenses.
It depends what you want to fly and where you want to stay. If you are a Marriott guy, get the Marriott card, the $85 fee one that comes with a free cat 1-5 night a year. 5 pts / dollar on Marriott stays just for using the card. Similarly if you fly Delta, getting a Delta Plat is a good idea as you can get MQM bonuses by spending enough on the card and get status quicker. Those are my preferences. Yes, other cards get you a bit more cash back in some sense, but I prefer more elite status / upgrades
As a consultant, you fly and stay in hotels enough that you don't need credit card to get top status. I made SPG and Marriott Platinum every year and Delta platinum just by segments. Non consulting, yes boosters help.
SPG card. If you stay in an SPG hotel, you get 5 points per dollar (plus more based on seasonal points bonuses/"going green"(. If you look at some of the category 5 St. Regis hotels, you can book a $750 room for $100 and 6k points, valuing your points at ~10 points per dollar. You're literally making over 50% back on money you didn't even spend. There's a fee after the first year but if you bitch at them they'll cancel it; Amex is terrified of losing customers atm.
Few problems with your analysis:
Number of points per dollar varies by status. For example, SPG 75 and above would get 6 points per dollar
Your valuation is suspect -- would you pay $750 for that room without the points? If not, it's not worth $750 to you. The correct way to value points, is what would you have paid for the free room/flight/whatever if you didn't have the points
Your logic is like saying you "saved" $50 because you bought a new shirt for $30, and normally it goes for $80. The only way you save money is if you were going to buy the shirt for $80 anyway. If not -- you're not saving shit, man
Depends on how you look at it. I might not have paid $600 for a room with my own money, but I still value a $600 room at $600. The difference is that now I can afford it because I have more points than I know what to do with given the number of vacations I take every year.
You can also use points for the low category hotels and get insanely good value. SPG redemption values are typically the highest for very low or high category hotels (e.g., cat 2/3 and 7), so you can easily get 3-5 cents per point at cat 2/3 hotels. That goes even higher if you factor in getting upgraded (which I've frequently been even for personal travel), points you get back as your platinum amenity, and making a green choice (if available).
Example: on a recent 3-day trip to Orlando, I got a $160 room for 3000 points at a cat 2. Then I got upgraded to a bigger room (~$190/night), got 500 points at check-in, and another 500 for green choice.
So, the redemption comes out to: ($190x2)/(3000x2 - 1000) = 7.5c/point.
That's really really good, especially because Starwood has double point or extra 5k-15k promotions quarterly.
If you don't have to use the corporate Amex, I think SPG/Sapphire combo is hard to beat. Because there's so much dining and non-airline travel expenses (cabs, rental cars, etc.), you can get a lot of points on the Chase Sapphire. And I've been very impressed by the Sapphire customer service whenever I had to call them.
This is a simple concept. Things are worth what people pay for them. Things are not worth what people might pay for them in an alternate universe where they would have more money. What you'd pay is what matters, the rest is BS.
And it does matter, because even on the "relatively cheap" rooms, the same concept still applies. Would you pay $160 for that room in Orlando if not using points?
It's easier to get lodging cheaper than what you find on a place like Kayak, than it is to, say, get cheaper international flights than you can on a place like Kayak. This is because there are plenty of substitutes for lodging (e.g., AirBnB, crashing with a friend, etc.). There aren't a lot of substitutes for international flights (e.g., take a boat maybe?)
Your approach leads you to systematically overvalue hotels. And it doesn't make sense.
And why do you think hotels are priced the way they are? Someone is willing to pay the price they're quoting, and I am one of them. Whether you agree with my values or not is a different topic, but it's ridiculous for you to assume NO ONE is willing to do so.
Even with my current income, I'd absolutely pay $600 for a room. (Obviously can't do it every trip, but will for the right hotel/trip.) It is absolutely worth it to me as someone who likes premium hotels. Just because you can't imagine doing so, doesn't mean some other people won't.
Same with the room in Orlando. $160 for a 2-4 person room at a decent hotel right near the parks with a good review for the one vacation I get to take every quarter is a no-brainer for me, especially if it ensures that I get treated well as a Platinum member. Cheaper AirBnB's are usually shared rooms/apartments, and I hate dealing with AirBnB hosts more than dealing with the front desk. Crashing with friends seems great except that I usually take longer vacations with my SO/family or to destination cities (like Orlando) where I don't have friends. Great if these work for you--not inconceivable that they don't for others.
Finally, using points for hotels doesn't preclude you from using points for flights. A) I have enough SPG points to use them for both hotel rooms and flights (via transfer) and B) I have plenty of airline points from my flights that I can use.
Also, many Starwood/Hilton/Hyatt/Marriott properties are in the "business" areas of cities. The price of this lodging is based on what a business traveler would pay to be close to his office/client.
A leisure traveler using points for their vacation should not use this valuation because: (1) It is based on the price sensitivity of a price-insensitive business traveler (2) It is valuing the location in the "financial center" (or business district) as a positive, where for a leisure traveler it may be a negative
I've personally passed on using points before to stay at a boutique with a better location.
Non of this would apply to resorts, of course.
That is a ridiculous generalization.
1) Hotel chains have, in most major cities/destinations (e.g., NYC, LA, etc), both business-friendly locations and tourist-friendly locations. Then there are non-resort locations built very obviously for tourists (e.g., Meridien in Palm Springs, CA) and locations clearly built for consultants/business travelers (e.g., Sheraton/Westin near your client site in podunkville, MI.)
2) Much like rental cars, hotels can separate business travelers and leisure travelers because their stay patterns are different. There are also many mechanisms like corporate rate codes, convention codes, etc. through which hotels can tell if you're on a work visit or a vacation.
Now, you can still get extremely good redemption values for rooms/locations priced for leisure travelers. For example, the above example in Orlando was a prepaid rate at a hotel literally steps away from Universal.
Interesting debate between BigPicture and pnb2002 !
I think I understand the line of logic from both of you though.
This is painful. I'm not sure you understand my argument and I feel like I'm being misquoted:
"Whether you agree with my values or not is a different topic, but it's ridiculous for you to assume NO ONE is willing to do so." -- I never said no one would be willing to pay for them. If you are willing to pay that price -- sure use it in your valuation. If not, don't. That's been my point the entire time.
"Finally, using points for hotels doesn't preclude you from using points for flights. A) I have enough SPG points to use them for both hotel rooms and flights (via transfer) and B) I have plenty of airline points from my flights that I can use." -- No one said that using points for hotels precludes you from using points for flights. I'm saying that if you use list price, that valuation will be biased towards valuing points spent on hotels as higher than their true value.
"2) Much like rental cars, hotels can separate business travelers and leisure travelers because their stay patterns are different. There are also many mechanisms like corporate rate codes, convention codes, etc. through which hotels can tell if you're on a work visit or a vacation." -- Yes but the points per stay are the same for leisure and business, and the list price is the same for leisure and business. That's my point. Using the list price and points solely to value is bad, because it doesn't account for the different valuations for business and leisure.
Given how far off the mark your replies are, I think further discussion will not be useful, and I will stop replying.
Have a good one, sir, and I wish you luck in making better logical arguments in the future. :)
Credit Cards for Consultants (Originally Posted: 08/15/2008)
Hey guys,
What are some credit cards that you all have that takes advantage of all the traveling involved in this field? I'm trying to decide on a card that would be best for a consultant with regards to traveling rewards.
why not pay with real money?
apparently the starwood cards are good
You could always pay with real money, but one of the perks about consulting is all the points/miles you get from traveling. Might as well rack up the points and let your company reimburse you for the expenses rather then just paying cash and getting no benefits out of it.
amex platinum if you can get your company to pay for the annual fee (some consulting firms do). Just make sure to sign up for all the airline frequent flier cards and register for hotel points.
American Express Starwood Preferred Guest card. Make sure to get 10k bonus SPG points when you sign up. This is huge, assuming your firm (like mine) stays primarily at Starwood Properties. Combine this card (2 points / $) and SPG Gold status (3 pts / $) and you really start to rack up the points for hotel stays.
Citi mtvU card. This isn't a typical consulting card (and it may even be a little embarrassment to whip out at a big case team dinner), but I highly recommend it. You get 5 "ThankYou Points" per $ spent at restaurants (and bookstores and a few other places). You can cash out the TY points for gift cards or student loan rebates at 1 cent per point, or use them on plane tickets at up to 2 cents per point (and you get miles for the flights!).
Those are the only two cards I used this summer - the mtvU at restaurants and the SPG for everything else. You could use an airline card instead of the SPG for non-hotel purchases, but I'd rather have SPG points.
I've had the AmEx platinum for the past year, but I just canceled. Using it for lounge access is nice if you can get the fee waived (or get someone else to pay for it), but the rewards aren't very good IMO.
Other random points tips - be sure to focus your flying on one airline, see if your firm has an agreement that will get you status automatically with their preferred airline, pay attention to SPG promos (the SPG forum on FlyerTalk.com is a good source of info), get staffed internationally :-P.
Thanks a lot Ringtail, I think I'm going to apply for the Starwood. I do have a question though...I remembered looking at the details, and it seems like you can either apply your points towards hotel stay or airfare miles, but not both.... Is that correct?
I'm not sure if it'd make a big difference. You typically charge to a corporate amex, no?
cyclone - Definitely choose Starwood points, not airline miles!
If you choose miles, (i.e. Delta Skymiles), your points from hotel stays + using the SPG AmEx will be automatically converted into SkyMiles when you earn them. But if you choose Starwood points, you have the ability to use your points for hotel stays (often a better value, since award plane tickets are impossible to find these days), or, if you'd like to transfer them to an airline, you get a 20% bonus if you transfer in increments of 20,000 points.
Basically, you lose a lot of option value by choosing miles, and gain nothing in return.
And @ebitdaplus - if you have to use a corporate AmEx, be sure to sign up for Membership Rewards (I think it costs $75/year, so it's worthwhile if you'll charge > $7,500/year).
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