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Best ER firm?
 

hannah29's picture
IB
(Monkey, 32
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 6:23pm

thoughts?

Tags:
KarateBoy's picture

http://www.wallstreetoasis.co

AM
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 6:41pm

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/for-er-how-m...

Dank Nugs's picture

KarateBoy

ER
(Baboon, 148
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 7:28pm
KarateBoy:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/for-er-how-much-does-the-name-of-the-firm-matter-when-starting-out

Disagree completely. While the best analysts aren't necessarily at BBs, a junior person/associate is far better off at a big name firm. You're guaranteed to be paid at least on par with people of equivalent experience and you'll have better resources, better access to mgmt, etc. When dealing with exit ops or a career change, you'll get the benefit of the doubt of your firm's brand. It's much more common to see an analyst who was an associate at a BB vs a boutique/MM because that person's resume carries more weight. Not right, just the way it is.

I work at a boutique and I'm starting to see some of the differences (notably pay, resources, sales support). While I really like my analyst, I'd probably push harder for a BB if I could do it again. It's hard to say which firm is best but from what I've seen/heard, Barclays (ex Lehman), MS, and BofaML have stellar reputations.

dacasale's picture

As said above, it is rather

ER
(Orangutan, 251
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 7:59pm

As said above, it is rather an "individual" game. However, ER rankings do tell which houses have a good number of recognized individuals, corporate access, execution, etc. -which is always good to know if you are starting-. The main rankings is Reuter's Extel Awards (http://www.extelsurveys.com).

They don't do US, but here is Europe, Asia and Japan for 2010. They also rank individual analysts per sector, and to avoid the subjectivity of "quality research", they do so in terms of commissions generated.

EUROPE:
1 1 UBS
2 2 Bank of America Securities - Merrill Lynch
3 3 Credit Suisse Securities
4 6 Morgan Stanley
5 4 J.P. Morgan Cazenove
6 7 Deutsche Bank
7 5 Citi
8 9 Exane BNP Paribas
9 8 Société Générale
10 10 CA Cheuvreux
11 13 HSBC
12 11 Goldman Sachs
13 18 Nomura Securities
14 14 Sanford C. Bernstein
15 23 Barclays Capital
16 16 RBS Global Banking & Markets
17 19 Kepler Capital Markets
18 15 Natixis
19 21 Redburn Partners
20 17 Oddo Securities
21 20 ING Financial Markets
22 (-) Evolution Securities
23 (-) UniCredit
24 22 Commerzbank Corporates & Markets
25 (-) Macquarie Equities

ASIA:
1 4 Credit Suisse Securities
2 2 CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets
3 1 J.P. Morgan
4 3 UBS Asia
5 5 Citi Investment Research
6 9 Deutsche Bank
7 8 Nomura
8 6 Banc of America Securities - Merrill Lynch
9 11 Macquarie
10 7 Goldman Sachs Asia
11 10 Morgan Stanley
12 13 BNP Paribas Securities
13 (-) CIMB Securities (Singapore)
14 18 RBS Asia Securities
15 17 DBS Vickers Securities
16 14 Kotak Securities
17 (-) Daewoo Securities
18 (-) Motilal Oswal Securities
19 21 Daiwa Securities Group
20 (-) Ho Chi Minh City Securities Corporation (HSC)
21 12 China International Capital Corporation (CICC)
22 16 HSBC
23 (-) BOCI
24 (-) JM Financial ASK Securities
25 (-) Standard Chartered Bank

JAPAN:
1 6 Mitsubishi UFJ Securities
2 14 Barclays Capital
3 2 UBS Securities Japan
4 1 Merrill Lynch Japan Securities
5 21 Tokai Tokyo Research Center
6 10 Mizuho Securities
7 7 Morgan Stanley Japan Securities
8 5 Goldman Sachs (Japan)
9 3 Nomura Securities
10 13 Citigroup
11 11 Calyon Securities (Japan) (CLSA)
12 12 Deutsche Securities Ltd. (Japan)
13 15 Macquarie Equities (Tristone)
14 8 J.P. Morgan Securities Asia Private
15 9 Credit Suisse Securities (Japan)
16 19 Ichiyoshi Securities
17 4 Daiwa Securities Group
18 17 Okasan Securities

KarateBoy's picture

I too work in a

AM
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 10:53pm

I too work in a boutique/middle-market bank like you and I understand where you are coming from. I accepted my offer last January while it seemed none of the BBs were hiring when I was looking. It's a little frustrating to see my younger classmates with comparable resumes being offered job are Goldman Sachs, Barclay's, and JP Morgan while I had to REALLY bust my ass to get one non-BB offer.

Neither of us can know this for sure but this may be an example of non-BB juniors fantasizing of "greener pastures"

Half of the individuals I work with came from BB banks (either as associates with experiences or analyst that were invited with the promise of a big pay) and many of them feel that our boutique does a better job because

1) We care more about our companies and the research we produce
2) Typically have a longer term view
3) Typically have better relationship with management due to longer relations and, on a relative basis, high turnover that the big banks
4) Less of a slave to the I-Bankers
5) We cover less companies so the quality per note is higher

So I find it more than a little interesting to hear non-BBers complain about lack of access to resources while former-BBers rave about the higher quality of work done.

I do believe that a non-BB analyst can give you more attention than a BB analyst, especially if he is traveling 3-4 days a week chasing banking deals. Then it becomes a question of what is more valuable, a prestigious brand or being on an accelerated learning curve. I wish I had the answer to that one.

So, on a personal note. I wish I spoke with the buyside more often and had access to the top funds. HOWEVER, even if I did it would be unlikely that I would call them or that it would be worth while for them to speak to speak with me, especially if my analyst had not spent HOURS per week teaching me. I say this with confidence because I doubt junior guy (regardless of the bank he works with) knows more about about any given company and how the company's stock trades than any buysider who is considering purchasing the stock.

Dank Nugs:
KarateBoy:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/for-er-how-much-does-the-name-of-the-firm-matter-when-starting-out

Disagree completely. While the best analysts aren't necessarily at BBs, a junior person/associate is far better off at a big name firm. You're guaranteed to be paid at least on par with people of equivalent experience and you'll have better resources, better access to mgmt, etc. When dealing with exit ops or a career change, you'll get the benefit of the doubt of your firm's brand. It's much more common to see an analyst who was an associate at a BB vs a boutique/MM because that person's resume carries more weight. Not right, just the way it is.

I work at a boutique and I'm starting to see some of the differences (notably pay, resources, sales support). While I really like my analyst, I'd probably push harder for a BB if I could do it again. It's hard to say which firm is best but from what I've seen/heard, Barclays (ex Lehman), MS, and BofaML have stellar reputations.

bunkerbanker's picture

I like Bernstein research.

IB
(Baboon, 125
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 10:31pm

I like Bernstein research. Stifel is pretty good at times. All BBs research suck. Most boutiques are terrible too(e.g. D.A. Davidson or some sht)

Ray Finkle's picture

bunkerbanker wrote: I like

ER
(Orangutan, 361
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 11:05pm
bunkerbanker:

I like Bernstein research. Stifel is pretty good at times. All BBs research suck. Most boutiques are terrible too(e.g. D.A. Davidson or some sht)

Yeah all BBs suck. Barclay's product is the best, mostly b/c of the Lehman inheritance but still. Also every boutique does not suck, Argus and Janney both have great analysts in certain spaces. D.A is not a bad product also, I highly doubt you work on the buyside so this is probably a waste.

bunkerbanker's picture

Janney is not bad I agree. I

IB
(Baboon, 125
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 11:28pm

Janney is not bad I agree.

I mean in general, boutiques aren't much better.. like a Longbow or Suntrust. Obviously there are a few that are good (Blair and Gleacher come to mind)

KarateBoy's picture

Baird has at least a few good

AM
 
Points)
 on 2/17/11 at 11:33pm

Baird has at least a few good analysts too. I'm familiar with their transportation and industrial guy.

spaceagecowboy's picture

Stifel Nicholaus is sick

HF
(Orangutan, 272
 
Points)
 on 2/18/11 at 3:15am

Stifel Nicholaus is sick

indebt's picture

Even if "Baird" or "Gleacher"

(Chimp, 4
 
Points)
 on 2/18/11 at 3:28pm

Even if "Baird" or "Gleacher" are great, wouldn't it make more sense to work for Goldman -even if their research is shit- in order to keep your exit opportunities more open?

KarateBoy's picture

Why would a HF want to hire

AM
 
Points)
 on 2/18/11 at 4:07pm

Why would a HF want to hire someone who writes poor research? How will you add value to the firm?

IMO, hiring people with the words "Goldman" on their CV doesn't generate as much alpha as hiring people who know their stuff.

jbert112's picture

Good posts, I learned a lot.

ER
(Baboon, 145
 
Points)
 on 2/18/11 at 9:19pm

Good posts, I learned a lot. Can someone clarify sell-side/buy-side to a newbie? One side promotes/sells and the other advises on investments? that about right?

There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal.

Walkerr's picture

Interesting posts. I was

IB
(Gorilla, 568
 
Points)
 on 2/19/11 at 8:23am

Interesting posts. I was wondering whether ER was "easier" to get in to than IB? What sort of people are they looking for?

UKtop's picture

BBs are the best place for

ER
 
Points)
 on 2/21/11 at 8:12am

BBs are the best place for equity research, at least until you are a star analyst... then it doesn't matter where you work.

At the beggining, BBs have a established training structure. Many BBs put their graduates in full classroom training from July (when the programme starts) to December (when they make them take CFA1), and this is something that boutiques cannot afford to match.

From then on, resources are always superior at BBs. Corporate access, specialized sales people, execution... Salaries are higher too.

Wannabedude's picture

Walkerr, thats a tough

ER
 
Points)
 on 2/19/11 at 8:45am

Walkerr, thats a tough question to answer. I think it ends up being just as hard as
1) IBD's pedigree of candidates are higher
2) ER needs less grunts, so grad opportunities are often less. The value of your major is also lessened as ER tend to appreciate varied backgrounds alot more ie if you were a straight business major and you came up against a kid with a resource engineer + finance background.. (assuming the group was related to commodities etc)

Walkerr's picture

Thanks for the response

IB
(Gorilla, 568
 
Points)
 on 2/19/11 at 9:00am
roar19's picture

Is that really true about how

ER
(Baboon, 108
 
Points)
 on 2/21/11 at 8:02am

Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules.

What-to-do-What-to-do's picture

You can always start in

(Baboon, 111
 
Points)
 on 2/23/11 at 9:12am
KarateBoy's picture

I never heard of this. Sounds

AM
 
Points)
 on 2/23/11 at 8:00pm
Steve Mallory's picture

Agreed. Doesn't happen.

ER
(Monkey, 64
 
Points)
 on 2/23/11 at 8:08pm
gamenumbers's picture

KarateBoy wrote: I never

IB
(Gorilla, 678
 
Points)
 on 3/12/11 at 5:21pm
lifesgreatmystery's picture

on the buy-side you wanna

 
Points)
 on 3/12/11 at 10:25pm
jbert112's picture

lifesgreatmystery wrote: on

ER
(Baboon, 145
 
Points)
 on 3/12/11 at 10:46pm

There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal.

lifesgreatmystery's picture

in the new england area, off

 
Points)
 on 3/13/11 at 8:47pm
Ray Finkle's picture

jbert112

ER
(Orangutan, 361
 
Points)
 on 3/14/11 at 9:33am
What-to-do-What-to-do's picture

lifesgreatmystery wrote: in

(Baboon, 111
 
Points)
 on 3/14/11 at 10:27am
Ray Finkle's picture

What-to-do-What-to-do

ER
(Orangutan, 361
 
Points)
 on 3/14/11 at 11:49am
lifesgreatmystery's picture

what-to-do, i work in AM. i

 
Points)
 on 3/14/11 at 12:15pm
Ray Finkle's picture

lifesgreatmystery

ER
(Orangutan, 361
 
Points)
 on 3/14/11 at 12:41pm
What-to-do-What-to-do's picture

lifesgreatmystery

(Baboon, 111
 
Points)
 on 3/14/11 at 2:25pm
lifesgreatmystery's picture

holy shit you need to chill

 
Points)
 on 3/14/11 at 7:10pm

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