Transition from Big 4 to BB IB?
Hey All,
I am currently a freshman student at a non-target school for IB, however 2 of the the Big 4 firms as well as many other consulting firms come on campus to recruit for internships and full time gigs. I was wondering if I supposedly got a job in Transaction Services/Advisory for the Big 4 and did a couple years there and then got an MBA, would I be able to make the move to a BB IB?
Thanks
You can make the transition to IB from any top-14 MBA. If that's what you want, why not try to transfer after 1-2 years of undergrad to a target school? You can skip the whole "work a job you don't like for 3-5 years and then drop $300k on an MBA" bit.
You're going about this the wrong way. Don't sell yourself short by planning a Big Four to IB move. What you should be doing is working to get IB straight out of undergrad.
You really have two choices:
1). Network and keep your GPA as close to a 4.0 as possible while getting relevant experience (e.g. boutique IB internships). 2). Get as close to a 4.0 as possible during freshman year and then transfer to a target
I'd go with option #2. Your life will be much easier from a recruiting standpoint. Good luck.
From Big4 Accounting to IBanking...best route? (Originally Posted: 10/12/2009)
Ok so a little background: Graduated from Michigan State w/ 3.85 undergrad GPA. I've accepted a FT offer from a Big4 accounting firm starting next fall. I'll be done with my MS program and CPA in May.
I'm looking to get into BB IB and would like to know opinions on the best/quickest way to get there given my situation. I was thinking of working for 2-3 years then applying for top biz schools for a finance MBA. How plausible is this realistically?
Only reason I did accounting is because Big4 recruits heavily at MSU where banking hires maybe 5-10 graduates a year from here.
Opinions and advice?
What are are you going to b ein ? Audit?
If you can get into corporate finance, that is you best bet.
Otherwise, people here iwll probably tell you its going to be near impossible from audit. I can tell you in austrlaia its a bit easier, I know a few people who have come from audit to move into IB, often equity research.
after a year of work experience
I'm making it up as I go along.
I'll be in audit. I'm going to try and get on some financial clients if possible.
So you guys think MBA from top-tier won't cut it? I'd be interested in trading too, if that seems like a more realistic route.
An MBA from a top tier school will definitely open up doors for you. You will most likely get interviews, etc.
The point I'm making is that if you want to do banking, then just network your way into it. You don't need to spend $200K on a grad school education (not yet anyway). And it'll look better that you were a banker pre business school when you're actually in business school. Seriously, after a year of work, you'll see who know whos and how you can use these connections to help you land interviews/offers. Unless you're a complete tool that no one likes.
Btw, working for a financial client does not mean that you will get a skill set or network that can be used to become a banker. you'll probably have a good shot at getting a job working in the finance department at the client. If you have a hospital as a client, it doesn't give you a good shot at becoming a doctor.
I'm making it up as I go along.
I agree with Cornelius. There are many boutiques in Chicago (if that's where you're going to be working) that have no training programs. As a result, they look for analyst candidates that have 1 year of work experience in banking or accounting.
Interesting note. Is this common with other small boutiques or was this specified towards a select few in chicago?
I understand the on-campus presence of the Big Four there vs. top finance companies. Your best bet is to move to NY or Chicago (if you want to stay in the Midwest), neither of which should be an issue with any Big Four firm, and then either try to get into an IBD quickly (so you're not 'tainted'), or move to the corp fin side or the transaction services (accounting due diligence on M&A deals) side ASAP.
I agree that an MBA from a top school will undoubtedly open up doors, but I also agree that you should try breaking in before that. Once you've moved to NY/CHI, you should network like crazy.
I'm an MSU alum and former BB IBer. Would agree with others, just network and try to move up. Deloite's IB in the D is hiring, did you try interviewing with them when they came to MSU? Shoot me a message if you need some contacts or would like to talk more. Best of luck!
Go Green! Go White!
PM me
Ok, so it looks like the best route is Big4 (1-2 yrs) -> Boutique (2-3 yrs?) -> MBA from top-20/Exit to industry/stay in banking
My question is, what cities besides Chicago have the types of firms that look for analyst candidates w/1-2 yrs work experience? I'm willing to move to any city as long as its big, but would prefer Chicago/NYC/anywhere in Cali.
Big 4 to IBank (Originally Posted: 09/25/2009)
Have an option to transfer from audit banking group at a big 4 into an advisory group focused on acct advisory along with valuation of financial instruments/securitization, etc.. or take an product control role at BB. Goals is to go back to school for an MBA in 2 years time and hopefully land a front office (buy side) job.
How are my chances if I stay at an advisory function for the next two years or take this product control role (do a part time MBA) and maybe work my way up, perhaps first transition into a risk mgmt job and then to front office?
instances where BIG 4 lead to ER (not exactly IBD but closer)...//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/does-having-a-cpabig4-experience-help-at…
curious did you transition within the same big 4 company from audit to finance..or was it one big 4 co to another?
also what is product control? middle office (controller work) at BB? thanks
I have the option to move internally into structured finance at the same Big4 where I started out of college (3 years ago).
Product Control is a middle office "controller" function, typical responsibilities may include producing daily P&L,risk attributions, month-end independent price verification(IPV)of open positions, and ad-hoc project involving front-office or risk management.
Big 4 Consulting to IB? (Originally Posted: 02/20/2013)
I am having trouble deciding between a PwC Management Consulting Internship or a small regional bank investment banking summer analyst position. My ultimate goal is BB IB and I had several interviews and a few superdays over the last few months but I failed to receive an offer (currently a junior).
I already have an offer from PwC for management consulting and it would probably be in their Financial Services M&A Advisory group. I know this is not the ideal path to BB IB but will I still have a shot given I was already able to land interviews this year if I keep networking. PwC has a very high FT offer % and also pays well. If I chose a small boutique I would probably end up with very little/no pay.
Your thoughts? Any insight or experience switching from PwC or Big 4 management consulting to BB IB?
Based on what others have said previously, go with the IB. Of course, you will still have to network your ass off. Unfortunately, most banks recruit a lot from their SA, but it's a risk you would have to take. I'm sure you could get a big 4 offer for FT if you can't get into IB.
How regional is the boutique? Are we talking a boutique that has dealflow and pays close to street or a small 5 person run shop that does an occasional small-cap capital raise? If I were you I would go with PwC consulting. Lateraling from a small regional bank to a BB for full time recruiting is near impossible now. They barely even recruit for full time. PwC consulting is still a great gig and although you might not be able to transition into banking, you still have good exits
PWC will give you more looks your way come FT recruitment.
big 4 management consulting is looked upon as more "equal" to a mickey mouse IB boutique, at least in the eyes of those who work in BB, since many of them considered Big 4 Consulting when they were leaving college.
What?
Big 4 to IB - Recent grad (Originally Posted: 02/03/2011)
Hi there,
So I'm a recent grad working in Big 4's auditing practice in Taipei since the Sept of last year, and to sum it up... IT BLOWS. aside from polishing up some excel, financial reporting , the lack of ambition among the ppl i work with really turns me off
coming from a finance background in uni, it wasn't my first choice to start here, but job market was tough, so I've decided to grab on what was available at the time. Always wanted to do IB, since most of my friends are in Hong Kong, intuitively, its my desired location.
A little about myself... soso/ok rep Canadian uni, B+ avg in school with finance/economic degree... did the first level CFA a while back, planning to write the CPA soon since I've started here... Proficient in Mandarin+minimum understanding of Cantonese.
I plan to start looking for a position around August/Sept after i completed the CPA exam... i no its an uphill battle, but im just looking for some sound and sincere advice on how i should proceed? It doesn't have to a BB, since i know its ultra competitive in HK....
contact alumni? crazy cold calls/emails? would going over something like Wall Street Prep to polish up on that model skill help? I don't think i qualify as a recent grad anymore do i?
Advices are greatly appreciated
It's a REALLY long shot, at least in the US, and networking will be key. Audit is not very highly respected and the work is very different from what an analyst at a bank does. Your odds would be improved by moving into a specialty group that works with transactions and/or valuations; not sure how Big 4 offices are structured in Taiwan.
Kenny is right. You are probably looking at a relatively long process of transitioning. Your best bet would get into an advisory role at your firm and spend at least a year there, so that you have substantial experiences to put on your resume. That will at least give you some support when people are looking at your resume, and may help alleviate the question of why IB? You could easily back it up by saying that you found audit to lack the analytical aspects that you were looking for, so moved into advisory to better prepare yourself for IB once you discovered that IB would better utilize your abilities.
yea i've thought about maybe moving to big 4's transaction/advisory side of the business ill look into it, thankx guys
i do realize that the stuff u do in audit is rather irrelevant to IB, hence im trying to get out asap
typically how does someone have to work in audit before transitioning to advisory services in the Big4? Can someone go into transaction advisory when they grad?
You can definitely go into advisory straight out of school. So long as you have a finance or accounting degree it should be relatively easy to do. Whichever degree you have, just try to get as much relevant coursework from the other as possible since they are both heavily utilized in advisory.
Depends on the service line and the firm/office, but most people I knew in advisory started in advisory, with the exception of a few really technical accounting advisory practices that brought in people from audit after a few years.
^^ thanks guys. I didn't really know that - i was under the impression you have to start in audit first prior transitioning to advisory. do you have any ideas which firms do this and is this applicable in Canada? Or mostly geared toward the US?
I believe all of the big 4 firms have an advisory department in one capacity or another. I'm not completely sure about which ones have Canadian offices containing advisory, but I would imagine there are plenty. Check out their websites or call HR. One of those two should give you the information you're looking for.
quick question,
can i still apply to the graduate programs even though i'll have a year of exp on my resume?
The Big 4 are always looking for people, they'll def. consider experienced hires.
Moving from Big 4 to BB IBD (Originally Posted: 05/01/2014)
Hello Monkeys.
I'm a Industrial Engineer that graduated in one of the best universities here in Chile (in the last 10 years its position moved from 2nd to 1st, and is the 2nd best in Latin America according to QS Top Universities).
Right now I started my career in one of the Big 4 at the corporate finance Team. I would like to know if it's possible to move (after 2-3 years) to a BB in the IBD.
My plan (if I can't change after those years), is to do an MBA in a top b-school and then trying to move into one of the top 5 investment banks.
Thanks!
claro que si
It certainly happens, at least in Europe, and it's not rare to see a few Big 4 guys on the floor.
Most of the time it comes down to networking with a few taking the route of reaching out to recruiters depending on if they were involved in transactions in their last role.
I am guessing you are in Chile which might make things more difficult networking wise as well as attempting to relocate abroad. MBA might seem like a more realistic option.
But being at a Big 4 corporate finance team, is it seen as a real investment banking job? we don't have the same hours though, so I'm worried they don't see that I can work too like an analyst/associate from a BB.
Anything is possible in Chile, career paths aren't as clearly defined as in the U.S and some banks don't have pure M&A teams, the same team may do ECM as well given that the deal flow in Chile for both M&A and ECM is much much lower than let's say NYC.
Also, as the deal flow is much lower in Santiago you won't have to stay up late as you would in let's say NYC or London, given this, the hours in Big 4 Corp Fin in Chile may be lower but not much lower.
Remember not everything is about joining an Investment Bank but also gaining exposure to real M&A, many investment banks in Chile haven't seen a single deal in a long time.
How to get into banking post Big Four (Originally Posted: 11/26/2012)
I have a question about how to get into investment banking.
Basically I didn't get into investment banking (corporate finance/IBD) as I had hoped and instead took a role with one of the Big Four in audit while studying towards chartered accountancy (all this in London, information relating to other parts of the world probably not as relevant unless I can make some swooping transfer from Canary Wharf to Wall Street).
Anyway I have little intent on staying an auditor once I qualify with my ACA and I want to go into investment banking, specifically corporate finance. I also have about 1.5 years of experience working with predominantly financial modelling/investment analysis type work pre-Big Four and in addition to that I'm constantly upgrading my Excel skills, going through tutorials to learn it more thoroughly and just practicing some financial modeling on my own.
Anyway, with someone of these qualifications and skills (assuming I'll be applying for a job as a newly qualified ACA), what would be the best way at which to get into banking? I was thinking of actually going for another grad scheme i.e start off again as a first year analyst since even then I'd be earning more as a chartered accountant pretty much anywhere else and compared to most other applicants to these schemes, I should be massively overqualified (4.5 years of financial work experience to back me up when going for an entry level position). However would banks even consider someone like me for such a role, or perhaps I should go for a 2nd or 3rd year analyst position?
Going for an associate position is probably a bit too hard as there will be thousands just like me trying to get one of those so I was thinking of trying out for something where the competition's a bit easier.
Any ideas/advice on these potential entry routes?
You will not get in as an Associate. I have it on very good authority (MD) that you will only be hired as a 1st year analyst, perhaps 2nd year if you are lucky.
Out of interest, which Big4 is it? I'm basically in an identical situation to yourself. PM if you'd prefer!
Thanks for the answer Asatar. I can't send you a PM since I don't have enough banana points or smthn. I'd rather not say the exact name of my employer but I don't think it really matters, they're all very similar.
So if I was going for a 1st year analyst position, would I stand a good chance of getting through since I'm obviously far more qualified than most other guys applying or does that not matter that much as say competency based interviews (or whatever it is that banks place an importance on in the recruitment process).
I was interested to see if I know you through work :)
Think of it this way - Big 4 each hire about 1,000 new people as S1's every year. A LOT of them want to leave after being qualified. When you are qualified, there's probably going to be several hundred others just from your firm looking for the same banking roles as you are. You might be preferable over a fresh university graduate, but what is going to make you stand out against your peers?
An ACA shows you are intelligent with basic accounting skills, but it doesn't show you have an interest in finance OR modelling skills. I would recommend doing at least Level 1 of the CFA while studying for your ACA, just so that headhunters / HR see you're not an audit drone. Spend the next 3 years networking your ass off and make sure you are top of your group and get fantastic recommendations from all your Managers / Senior Managers.
Big 4 transition to IBD (Originally Posted: 04/04/2010)
I am currently working in Public Accounting at one of the Big Four and am looking to make a transition into Investment Banking. I finished my Masters in Accounting to comply with the 150 credit rule for the CPA and have only been working full-time since September of 2008. Any thoughts on getting an entry-level Analyst position?
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/big-4-tas-to-ibd-possible
To summarize the post CDOMonkey linked: transfer to the TAS arm of your Big 4, then go to MBA, then you have a better shot at it.
Big 4 to IB? Any suggestions? (Originally Posted: 08/25/2012)
Hey guys,
I was wondering what do you think are the pros/cons of working at a big 4 accounting instead of banking.
Also, is there anyway to move from a big 4 accounting to become an analyst?
I feel like after college recruitment, its much harder to get interviewed?
What do you think?
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/broke-in-from-the-big-four
Big 4 to Investment banking (Originally Posted: 08/05/2012)
Got a few questions:
1) what tier is Georgia tech - and do top companies recruit from it
2) would a master of accounting hurt or help MBA admissions
3) if I did a master of accounting and then big 4 tas for a year could I transfer to a investment banking analyst role
Thanks
Use the search function
2: I copy / pasted your question verbatim into the search function and the following came up.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/will-a-macc-hurt-for-mba-admissio…
You can do the rest
From Big4 to IB (Originally Posted: 05/21/2010)
How easy/difficult is it to switch from working at a big 4 firm either in audit or TAS into IB or P/E?
Tons of topics on this. Based on the ones I read, TAS is your best bet.
now feed the baboon a banana
Yea its not that easy but it is funny because a strong accounting background really helps you to kill IBD.
even funnier that in big4 audit u learn nothing about accounting. best bet is def tas. some jump straight to pe
Its doable. Before the crash (and the firm I worked for disappearing), our head of PWM traced his origins to a Big Four firm.
Would imagine it takes someone really intelligent to make the jump, though.
Switching from big 4 to IB (Originally Posted: 10/24/2006)
Can anyone share their experience/knowledge how to get from Big 4 -- audit position (Alternative Investment Funds Department) to analyst position in I-Banking/HFs/PE/Asset Management Firms. Thank you in advance.
Hey
Alternative Investment Funds Department? Interesting...
I switched from Big 4 to IB - was in Consumer and Industrial Products in Audit so had a broad industry knowledge.
Only went for it off the back of a good contact in the bank who put my CV forward. 11 interviews! Technical (valuations and sector knowledge)
You need to be pretty sharp - first time ACA passes, impeccable academics and a solid reason why you want to do what you want to do. And prepare to lose a couple of years in terms of career progression - I went from qualification to third year analyst (lost a year).
Your key strengths - knowledge of accounting and financial statements and everything one needs to understand balance sheet, P&L and cash flow - this is one of the key skills someone from audit brings. Also play on your knowledge of GAAP (US/IFRS/UK).
Msg back if you want more advice.
Big 4 to IB advice (Originally Posted: 05/11/2011)
I am currently a CPA at a Big 4 firm interested in transitioning into either IB or PE/VC in a few years. Any advice on the best way to do this?
Many colleagues advise either taking the CFA or getting an MBA...any thoughts on this and which is better?
I think it would be easiest to just go from Big 4 to MM IB to be honest. I know 2 people who have done this transition and gone to extremely reputable middle-market banks.
I've heard that CFA has very little Value Added to the entry level IB positions and a prestigious MBA could be difficult with have 1,000 other auditors applying with same background/experience.
I guess my only question would be do you not want to start at the Analyst Level? Because if that is the case then you will definitely want to work your ass off and get into a prestigious MBA to make it easy on yourself to land an Associate role.
To piggyback on Prospective Monkey, if you do plan at starting at the Analyst level, be prepared to explain to every single person you talk to that you are prepared to start as an analyst even though you have work experience - be convincing because no one will be believe you.
Big 4 to Banking. Advice on next steps? (Originally Posted: 09/09/2012)
I currently work as a senior associate in Individual Expatriate tax at a Big 4 firm. I have about 3.5 years of work experience at this time, the first 1.5 years of which was spent in India (where I went to college). I was working at a Big 4 firm there too and pretty much focused all my energy on getting out of India and finally made it to New York where I now work for a different Big 4 firm.
I am also going to school full time to get my MS in Finance. My school is far from amazing and the only reason I started going is so I could get a Visa to remain here and continue working(long story). I am three quarters of the way through my MS in Finance and have about 6 months left.
I am now looking to switch to a career in Investment Banking - something I could not do before this because of the intricacies of getting a work Visa. But that is behind me now and I can finally think about a career in IB.
Is it too late for me to make that switch? I know it will be much harder for me at this time but nothing's impossible right? What do you think my next steps should be? Do you think it is smart to go back to school full time to get my MBA in a target school? If I did do this, it would be at least a year before I start my MBA program. Or should I finish my master's degree in Finance and apply online for jobs?
*shameless bump
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
From Big 4 to IB -- I made it (Originally Posted: 11/19/2013)
Long-time lurker, infrequent poster. I want to express my appreciation for this site and all of its members; thanks in no small part to the information here, I recently landed an IB analyst role at a boutique.
A bit of background:
I graduated in 2012, and began working at a big 4 firm in the TS/TAS group. About 6 months in, I realized I hated it and felt like I was underachieving. I decided I was going to make the switch to IB in late April 2012, and after a long-road, I finally did; started at a boutique bank a bit over a month ago. I went through many rounds of interviews, and got close to landing a job multiple times throughout my journey; these late round rejections were particularly demoralizing but I kept at it, and eventually something panned out.
If not for the advice on this site (interview tips, cold calling, perfecting your "story", etc.), I would not be where I am today. I also want to shout out the WSO interview prep pack -- it was an excellent resource for me when getting ready for IB interviews (http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/investment-banking-interview-prep-…).
Thanks everyone,
-jorn_umpo
Congratulations!
congratulations... you inspired all of us.
Awesome, congrats man! Don't see that jump all too often.
Nice job. So how did you land the interviews in the first place?
Fortunately I had a fairly strong resume (1 IB internship, high GPA), so that helped. I landed interviews in a variety of ways-- If I saw a job posting I wanted to apply for, I'd use LinkedIn to see if anyone I had some type of connection to worked there, and then I'd talk to them. I also had a friend send me job postings from his school's career site, and I would just directly email whoever the contact was. And of course, I submitted online apps to every posting I saw.
Congrats!!! Always good to see success stories like this!
Transferring to banking from Big 4? (Originally Posted: 02/01/2008)
I have been working in a Big 4 FAS practice (valuations) for about seven months now. I didn't realize that the job would primarily be audit assist (naivete on my part.) As much as I hate to terminate a relationship prematurely I cannot see myself doing two to three years of this. Typically I'm simply reviewing other people's work for fair value accounting purposes; 90% of my time I'm making sure that all assumptions are documented and sourced properly.
I want to be in the markets: either something transaction driven or equity research. But I don't know how to go about it. I've submitted my resume to a bunch of headhunters and random job postings on Doostang, but I feel like my actions are ineffective.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
A handful of the BB's are on hiring freezes right now, and if you would be coming in as a first or second-year analyst, you have to fight with all the undergrads looking for jobs in banking as well.
Decide what area of banking you want to be in, i.e. research, S&T, banking, etc. and then try and leverage any contacts/friends you may have. That is usually the best way to go, as online apps. do not usually go anywherem except for HR's circular file.
The only people I know who have made the switch are people who have done a big 4 stint then gone into B-school and then moved into i-banking or made really good friends with some analyst and associates at a bank. It would be really difficult to make the switch by going through HR or company website
How easy would it be for you to get into the corp finance/transaction advisory group at your big 4? I've seen that be a decent exit op to MM IB firms.
Perhaps I were to transfer to the NY office. The local corp fin group is like 10 people I think.
Big 4 to IB - Preparation (Originally Posted: 02/28/2007)
Hey,
I'm currently at big 4 acct. firm (about 5months), and wondering how I should start my preparation for changing my career to IB.
I am, - Class of 06' Finance/Acct major (NYU) - in NYC - willing to relocate (Major cities, nothing like Memphis or Cincinati (no offense to ppl from there))
I am fully aware that there are all these minimum requirements - GPA - SAT Scores - previous internships/experience - extracurricular acts.
but for the sake of arguement, let's say, I don't have the best in all of those, but somewhat decent. (again don't go all crazy about how you need to know to advice on)
My main question is,
Thanks, and hope to hear much advice(or crap) from you all.
what?
Are you talking about Series 7 and all the other numbered series exams?
you said, pass the exams and revisit.. what exam are you talking about?
Dude, why didn't you go for it out of undergrad. How/why are you a better candidate with any more to offer with 6 months experience. Why don't you kick ass at your current job for 1.5 years, get your CPA, then use your solid undergrad degree to get into a good mba program and take it from there.
(again don't go all crazy about how you need to know to advice on)
My main question is,
Thanks, and hope to hear much advice(or crap) from you all.
[/quote]
but staying at big 4 for another 1.5 yrs, and getting cpa...
is it worth it?
YES its worth it...
Think about framing yourself in a better light...
NYU BIG 4 Firm HIgh gMAT CPA Great recommendations NYC experience
A not so great GPA isn't going to hold you back unless you can't get into a good mba program, top 7 for ibanking.
Use your time now for a short to medium term girlfriend or something.
actually i am, so i guess i'm on the right track? haha
another question is,
if i start contacts now, and let's say i don't get any, then is that gonna hurt me in the future? (in 2 years?)
if it does, i might as well wait, but if it doesn't, i might as well try, no?
thanks again for your inputs
what are the top7 mba programs for ibanking?
best 7 mba for ib'
wharton, Harvard, Dartmouth, NYU, Stanford,U o Chicago, Northwestern (Kellogg) ... that's personal opinion, don't quote me...
This is just an impression.
I am in a similar boat with you. Big 4 looking to go into investment banking afterwards. However, the firms I have looked into generally want 3 years minimum experience in public accounting and an MBA from a top 20 school.
I would think that you would be able to get into a top program with big 4 experience (so I also assume you had a good undergrad GPA), a cpa (requires 2 years of audit experience in NY, so you might want to reconsider working longer than 1.5 years), and a good gmat score.
how can NYU be on that list and not Columbia...
ok, add columbia and mit, i knew i would forget some...but my point is more not which ones they are but that there are a select number of target ones to shoot for...
there are tons of posts about the school issue.
Big 4 to IB? - The transition? (Originally Posted: 09/02/2013)
Hello, I'm new here and just from an initial gloss over of the site, I am sure this has been answered before so I apologize in advance.
I'm curious as to the possibility of making a transition from big 4 accounting (tax position to be specific) to IB, AM, PE or something similar. I was a finance major in college however due to a lack of potential options in finance straight out of school (my school at least) I added the accounting degree and was lucky enough to land a position at a Big 4 firm. I work in tax specifically in Financial Services, meaning I do a lot of work for Banks, PE firms and AM firms. I initially chose FS in hopes of being able to leverage that experience in the future. I have been with my current firm for a little over a year but I feel the need to start taking action regarding where I want to be in the future, and also to avoid being 'pigeonholed' as a "tax person."
It has always been my goal to get into finance, although I am not that sure how possible, or feasible that goal still is.
I get the feeling that I would have to go back to school to get an MBA, and look for an intern ship or a full time position at a small boutique firm.
Any experience, advice, or suggestions would be great.
And of course if this has been asked before or touched upon in other posts a reference would be great.
Your best shot is to get into a Top 15 b-school and recruit for finance positions. If you have a good GPA and GMAT scores, and can craft your story well, you should be good enough for top 15 mba programs coming from Big4.
There seems to be this ill-conceived notion on this site (and several others) that it is impossible to make the switch from accounting to IB without a top business school to re-brand yourself. I know several people who have done it, and I am the process of doing it myself (from audit instead of tax). Going back to get your MBA helps, but it is not required. You likely won't end up BB, but you might be able to get into a good second tier bank. Asian Monkey was right about spinning a good story; make sure your resume and cover letter stress the aspects most related to what you want to do. For instance, I audited FS clients and recently recreated a valuation of an acquisition target as part of our audit procedures. I spent a few weeks on the project, but it gives me something relevant to talk about in my interviews. Obviously the other important thing is to network like hell. I went to a small (top rated) liberal arts school, so it was pretty easy to get alumni to go to bat for me e-mailing and calling HR directors etc. If that is not a possibility for you, track down the pages on this site about networking, and settle in for a long and tedious process.
It has been done. Like backonthis said, if you keep trying you will be able to find IBD, just a matter of the esize of bank and length of time it takes you. It really comes down to how bad you want it. Keep us updated and hopefully we can see the "success story" sometime in the WSO headline soon
Thanks for the responses, Is there any easy way to look for banks or break out of the "tiers" of banks that I could take a look at?
I've seen IB analysts (MM) with 1~2 years of experience in big 4.
Ive seen IB analysts with 2-3 years of audit experience....with but they were recruited as 1st years after MFins.
I think the question is not whether you can enter These firms, but how good These firms are that you can enter. At what Kind of Level are you aiming at?
I was more looking at feasibility of the transfer. I know top tier is most likely out of the question in my current standing. However accounting and tax in general does not seem to be my cup of tea so i would be open to a number of things.
It depends on what firms you're looking to recruit at. My firm thought my Big 4 experience was a huge plus and it definitely helped me secure an interview. The transfer is very possible if you're not set on prestige and just aiming for BB and top MM.
How difficult was it for you to get into big 4?
It is definitely possible and many on this site have done it. Do a google search like "site:wallstreetoasis.com big 4 to banking"
From Big 4 Accounting to BB (Originally Posted: 09/13/2011)
I was wasting my time on linkedIn when this guy's profile came up through my connections.
I find his career path interesting if there is no lie in what I saw.
XX Person Strategic Risk Management
Current
Analyst - Bulge Bracket
Past
Manager - Financial Assurance at Big4 Senior Associate at Big4 Associate at Big4 Consultant at no-name consulting boutique
My guess is that he's not an analyst in IBD. Maybe another group in a BB.
...there are people who do make the switch, albeit rare. I know someone who did 1 year Audit then got into elite boutique banking
Also, I have spoken with people who went from Valuation at Big 4 to Hedge Funds, PE, and Banking at BB/MM.
It def happens "enough" that you can find one person on linkedin
i wouldn't downgrade big 4...
so many people make the switch. maybe not many from audit but advisory, valuation, corp finn. I've seen a lot make the switch to top IBD.
to the OP.... hes most likely doing Strategic Risk Management for a BB
Correct me if I'm wrong but manager at a big 4 generally takes 5+ years? Seems odd to go from that position to a an analyst at a bb, particularly in a division that isn't even revenue generating.
I've seen the switch made at lower levels (i.e. after 1-2 years at a Big 4). All of the former Big 4 managers that I've seen eventually get into IBD have gone back to get their MBAs and are now associates. I've never seen one go back as an analyst in IBD.
FP, yes it usually takes 5+ years to make manager at a Big 4.
^ I've heard of one manager who went back to become a lateral IBD analyst. I think most do their MBAs and transition to associates like you said, but not everyone wants to take on the $100K debt for b-school, and these days b-school doesn't guarantee an IBD position.
It does seem like a huge cut - and it is, in some responsibilities and base pay, but all-in pay is better. I do agree though that as a manager, it probably makes more sense to do MBA --> IB, if debt isn't an issue.
I-banking after Big4?? (Originally Posted: 11/16/2006)
I am currently attending B School for my MSA. As I am graduating in August 2007, I am trying to figure out where I want to go after school. I know I am interested in auditing and more of the strategic activites in accounting/finance such as m&a. I'm thinking I should start at one of the Big4 or a regional firm to gain auditing and some m&a experience and then move on to i-banking. I am 26 years old so I wouldn't enter the i-banking industry until I'm about 29.
I will also be working toward my MBA part-time while working at the accounting firm, so I will have this before entering i-banking. My questions are:
Does a Big4 look better than a regional firm (i.e. Grant Thornton) or does it not matter? Do you think it would be easy for me to transition into i-banking given my situation? What position would I likely start at? What would you guess my salary would be? Are there other alternatives to i-banking activities without working 75+ hours?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.
If you want exit opps outside of public accounting, you need to go to a Big 4. I interviewed with Grant Thornton this fall, and they are a great company and growing quickly, but they don't have that name brand that is really what you need to make your accounting experience stand out, especially trying to transition into IB.
Does a Big4 look better than a regional firm (i.e. Grant Thornton) or does it not matter? - obviously, but both are pretty bad.
Do you think it would be easy for me to transition into i-banking given my situation? - no
What position would I likely start at? - if its a tier 3 or 4 MBA program, analyst
What would you guess my salary would be? - the same as a 21 year old kid from h/y/p.
Are there other alternatives to i-banking activities without working 75+ hours? - mcdonalds
Both are bad? How do you figure Hank moronson? It's a dawg eat dawg world.
Breaking into I-Banking after Big 4 + MBA? (Originally Posted: 08/13/2012)
Hello all.
I'll just get straight to the point, I go to a non target in which almost no one gets recruited by BB's but plenty by the Big 4. I'm planning to transfer into NYU, but even if I get accepted money will be a huge problem, but anyways this is in the case i dont get into NYU. For any of the I-Bankers out there and people that are experienced with this sort of stuff, is it a common path to get some big 4 experience and then go get an MBA (I live in NY, so I'd be aiming for either Columbia or NYU) and get onto the street in IB? Would you imagine it working? Or would I be better off just working at a boutique and working my way up?
yeah that is definitely a way to get into IB. if you can get into an MBA business schools">m7 mba program, you have a really good chance of going into IB
NYU Stern MBAs do well and many place at the top groups, you'd be in a good spot.
MBA in Stern or Columbia will provide you with a really good chance to break into IB on the street at the associate position. Anyone who wants a career change into IB would usually do it through b-school. If you're set on IB and can manage working at a boutique then do the boutique. You save money and I'm sure there will be opportunities opening down the road 2-3 years assuming the economy gets back on track. If not, then b-school will still be an option. Best track Boutique --> possibly MBA as opposed to big 4 --> MBA, assuming you really want to do IB.
Best of luck
Big 4 advisory to IBD??? (Originally Posted: 12/14/2014)
Okay, so for the past 3 months I being working as a credit analyst for the commercial division of the bank in which I used to be a personal banker. So far I'm content with the position; the learning curve has been good;my coworkers are great people and my boss is fair.
In regards to pay, I'm doing ok after all, it is mostly a back office/ middle office job. Friday I received an email from a big 4 firm recruiter (From the actual company not an outside recruiter). Asking me to send her my resume and to give her a date and time to set up a phone interview with her.
Now here is the thing, I studied finance in school not accounting and even though accounting and finance are interrelated in some aspects, there are some substantial differences between both sciences. I know my basic accounting,and basic GAAP and FASB rules, but if you throw me some complicated accounting case study, I will be as dazed as a deer staring into headlights. Also my overall still remains same, which is to become an IBD Analyst.
So my questions is, will working for a big 4 firm advisory division (If I get the job) make it easier to lateral to IBD or it will just be another job in which I will improve my skills and increase my learning curve, but I will be sentence to just be a finance/consultant?
Thanks ahead.
PM me
Hugo let's share this advice your giving. Am currently at a big 4 advisory in fixed asset valuation and it sucks...looking to break into IB.
It all depends on where in Advisory you call. As many of the previous posts of the Big 4 will have indicated, the Advisory group can be really broad, and depending on where you fall within that group, it can have an impact on your chances and ease of transition to IBD.
if you're in one of the Transaction services advisory groups, your chances are better since its M&A focused, you're just on a different stage of the spectrum, but if you're in the Management Consulting track, you'll have to get a bit more creative in terms of how applicable your experience is. I've seen people make the switch from both groups, I don't think its easy by any means but definitely doable. Being in a more client-facing professional can always help position you better for IBD.
And to address your concern about complex accounting questions, I wouldn't expect any during your interview - I'd imagine the accounting you do have and the experience you have should be enough, but others can feel free to keep me honest if im wrong here. But again, it really depends on the group, and also your interviewer, some are known to be more dick-ish than others.
Well I think he might be talking about an audit role at the big 4. (you do have to know some accounting to do THAT job :D). From there you could try to get into a Big 4 transaction team and from there to IBD. If your chances are better than breaking in from your current job, I don't know... Big 4 Transactions is often talked about as being a pretty decent stepping stone, but the way over audit might just be a litte too long in Terms of years. Do you still have your MBA card to play? Because Transactions -> MBA -> IBD should be a pretty doable path.
Moving from Big 4 (Originally Posted: 08/20/2013)
Has anyone tried to move from Big 4 (PwC-Financial Services) with 3 years of experience (Senior Associate) to an analyst role in Banking or Investment Firm. Is it even worth trying without an MBA or CFA
CFA doesn't really help that much in IB. It's more useful for AM and ER.
I've seen one or two people lateral to IB as a Senior in Big 4 (must more common with only 1 or 2 years of Big 4 though), but personally I think you're better off getting an MBA and then joining as an Associate, any top 15 MBA will get you into a decent investment bank if you network and aren't socially awkward (or at least can BS through interviews enough to make people believe you're not socially awkward).
If you join now as an analyst, you'll most likely have to think about MBA 3 years down the line anyway in order to get promoted if you choose to stay in banking. That said, it's much easier to burn out after 3 years of analyst than associate, especially when you're older. When you start as an associate, you're thinking you just have to put up with shit for 3 years before making VP where life gets much better. But when you start as an analyst, you'll just get shitted on for another 3 years as an associate. If you get sick of the work (which most do), then what do you do after? MBA (which is basically what you could do now)? PE may be an option, but you likely won't get into a very big bank coming from a lateral position with 3 years if Big 4 experience which means limited PE exit opps (obviously not impossible I've seen it done too). You could go into Corp Dev/Corp Strat, but realize you'll be taking a considerable pay cut when you're older and less willing to do so. Or the other option is to join your Big 4 firm's TS/TAS group doing M&A DD (not the Valuations group), and hope to lateral directly into a buyside role at a small fund which I've also seen or move into some kind of Corp Dev/Strat role. You could also look into your Big 4's corporate finance arm that does MM IB (to be clear, all Big 4 have MM IB, this is distinct from the TS/TAS group). I've heard that their lives are pretty sweet, less pay than traditional investment banks but better hours and lifestyle.
I think you definitely have options as a Senior in Big 4 (despite what some people here may say), but I don't know if an Analyst is the best move in the long run, for your career, health and happiness. I've seen a lot of people burn out and begin to hate their job, and it's much easier falling down that path when you're an older analyst.
Edit: This is only applicable to IB, can't speak for asset management/investment firms.
How easy to change over from one of the Big Four? (Originally Posted: 02/20/2007)
I will be spending the summer with one of the Big Four accounting firms in their Business Due Diligence Group and I was wondering how easy it will be to get a full-time spot at an ibank. Anyone done this? Do you think the experience I will get this summer will help me get in the door of an ibank? Thanks.
I had a friend who did an internship with one of the big four and then tried to into banking full time. He got interviews with like 16 firms because of his GPA, but he also got grilled on technicals a hell of a lot more than those with banking experince. I mean to the point where they were asking him stuff some people in currently in banking wouldn't know, like industry specific valuation methods. Needless to say he works full time with one of the big four now.
So I guess the answer is going to be tough. Sorry.
As canadian said, it'll get you an interview most likely. It's up to you to ace the interview, just like everybody else. And yes, your technicals will probably be harder, though it should be more accouting based than industry specific valuation methods (don't think they would ask that even if you had top bb experience, unless you lie to them and say you're interested in X industry when in fact you don't know shit).
It is still tough coming from the Big 4 because i-banks know how much easier it is to get into the big 4 as opposed to a lot of the other investment banks. So they are going to be skeptical about whether you can do this work initially
at the same time, investment banking is very heavily based on accounting. seems like you should have the same shot as someone that worked at a mm or boutique
PwC to Banking (Originally Posted: 01/15/2008)
What would be the best group to intern in at PwC, if ultimately I want to go into IB after I graduate?
get in to corporate finance....pwc and other big 4 are strong in the mid market sector here in europe..
if u cant get in to that...try transaction services/transaction support as they do due dilligence work and u get some exposure on deals
Thanks ibd. Yea, this is in the US, I don't think that PwC has a specific corporate finance division here.
Stick with Transaction Services (would also have said their Structured Finance practice but given the market...well you know). The thing with most of the Big 4 who don't have Corp Fin practices is that you're not going to learn any relevant skills, but it's an easy thing to spin to show your interest in finance. Personally, I know for a fact the jump from Big 4 internship to IB is doable. The biggest problem is overcoming the "accountant" stereotype and knowing your finance extremely well. Be able to speak well about your story and why you thought accounting would give you a great foundation for IB.
I have a possible internship lined up with PwC's auditing dept. I go to a non-target and not a single IB, MM or anything of the sort recruit at my campus. The Big4 do, however, recruit for Auditing and Tax. I'm in a similar position as the original poster. How would you suggest I pitch myself to a recruiter of an IB?
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