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Biggest Killer of Your App? A Low GMAT Score..
 

shorttheworld's picture
EN
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 6:02pm
Gmat-Score-enough.png

No matter what admission officials or consultants say, this is unfortunately one of the unshakeable truths of the B-school admissions game. In an ideal world, a gmat score would just be another data point, perhaps equal to any other in your application, from recommendation letters to how you craft your essays. But last year’s survey by Kaplan Test Prep of B-school admissions officers showed that a low GMAT or GRE score is the single biggest reason why business schools ding MBA applicants.

The survey found that 58% of some 265 responding admissions officers said that a weak score on the Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT) or the Graduate Record Examination (GRE) is the biggest application killer (see survey results in table above). That was up ten percentage points over Kaplan’s 2010 survey which showed that 48% identified the exams’ score as the biggest killer.

A low undergraduate GPA placed second at 24%, below last year’s 33% citation, while the lack of relevant work experience followed at just 12%.

More info: http://poetsandquants.com/2012/03/27/gpas-gmats-wh...

I need a crib, a big estate, I need a boat and that need a lake, I need some salmon that need a plate, that need a chef so I feed my safe From trading equities to slanging wine in Latin America A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what a ship i
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petergibbons's picture

That's what they may say, but

CO
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 9:30am

That's what they may say, but from personal experience, talking with former students who were on the Admission committees, and reading forums like GMAT club, it seems like plenty of 700+ GMAT, 3.5+ from top schools aren't getting into the top tier schools. Essays and the fluffy stuff are used to distinguish one Goldman I-Banker from another...they're not all getting in everywhere.

Note they surveyed 265 admissions officers...how many of them are at schools WSO users would consider?

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points

theBEEGEES's picture

I think it's pretty

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 9:32am

I think it's pretty understandable. Someone that really cares about getting into a top school and is reasonably intelligent can obtain a good GMAT score with some effort over a relatively short period of time compared to how long it takes to get and obtain a good GPA (~4 years). What does it say about someone who can't muster up a good score?

shorttheworld's picture

yes but its saying one of the

EN
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 9:34am

yes but its saying one of the biggest net reasons o the whole applicant pool are based on thos factors.. it says that they surveyed 22 of the top 30...

I need a crib, a big estate, I need a boat and that need a lake, I need some salmon that need a plate, that need a chef so I feed my safe

From trading equities to slanging wine in Latin America

A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what a ship i

jtbbdxbnycmad's picture

This is basic logic. GMAT,

O
(Gorilla, 610
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 9:46am

This is basic logic.

GMAT, and to a lesser extent GPA (except at HBS where it's the other way around), are NECESSARY BUT NOT SUFFICIENT CONDITIONS.

Hence, they are application-killers, rather than "what gets you in".

Boothorbust's picture

This makes sense to me and is

O
(King Kong, 1,129
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 9:53am

This makes sense to me and is pretty consistent with the notion you hear that "Your GMAT/GPA can't get you into a school but it can get you dinged." Ad comms receive thousands of applications and they have to have a quick, relatively cheap, way to cut the pool down to a managable size. The GMAT/GPA, while not a perfect indicator, are probably the best way to judge that quickly and easily. Obviously, like any thing that is a proxy for intelligence/ability, some people on either side will be incorrectly judged (real life dolts who kill the GMAT and really smart people who don't do well) but such is life.

petergibbons's picture

Definitely makes sense from a

CO
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:02am

Definitely makes sense from a macro, total application pool perspective, I just thought of "You" as the WSO crowd, which is obviously way smarter and higher achieving than the rest of the rabble applying.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points

shorttheworld's picture

haha . that could be argued

EN
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:15am

haha . that could be argued ;)

I need a crib, a big estate, I need a boat and that need a lake, I need some salmon that need a plate, that need a chef so I feed my safe

From trading equities to slanging wine in Latin America

A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what a ship i

UFOinsider's picture

THANKS, this is very useful

O
(Human, 10,300
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:39am

THANKS, this is very useful info

shorttheworld:

lack of relevant work experience followed at just 12%.

However, ^ this makes me laugh

I'm not here to change the system, I just want to know how to use it to my advantage.

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

EngBanker's picture

petergibbons wrote: That's

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:52am
petergibbons:

That's what they may say, but from personal experience, talking with former students who were on the Admission committees, and reading forums like GMAT club, it seems like plenty of 700+ GMAT, 3.5+ from top schools aren't getting into the top tier schools. Essays and the fluffy stuff are used to distinguish one Goldman I-Banker from another...they're not all getting in everywhere.

Note they surveyed 265 admissions officers...how many of them are at schools WSO users would consider?

Say your overall application can be split into: 1. GPA + GMAT combo 2. Work exp 3. Story (ie essays) 4. Extras 5. Recs
At the top schools the most you get a break on is one of these categories. That's it. And the reason is simply what you said: the oversupply of good applicants.

Ravenous's picture

jtbbdxbnycmad wrote: This is

HF
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 11:05am
jtbbdxbnycmad:

This is basic logic.

GMAT, and to a lesser extent GPA (except at HBS where it's the other way around), are NECESSARY BUT NOT SUFFICIENT CONDITIONS.

Hence, they are application-killers, rather than "what gets you in".

This is exactly right. Past a certain level (around the averages for the schools, obviously), you are helped if you have uber stats, and hurt if you have weak stats, but they don't get you in or keep you out in isolation unless your stats are really bad. If you're in a competitive demographic like white males in finance, you need to be solid all around with no weaknesses, because your competition won't have any weaknesses. If you're a non-traditional like the guy / girl who worked at a social media start up or built huts in Africa for 10 minutes, you're competing against the other non-traditionals from a range of pre-carved out spots for people like you. The number of spots isn't going to be rigid per se, but they'll take a 600 GMAT 3.0 GPA at HBS if that's the best applicant they get for social media (they have a specific sub-program for that apparently). It's ALL about what bucket you are in and how you stack up against the other people in that bucket relative to the rough allocation of spots at the school.

cinnamontoastcrunch's picture

Ravenous is spot on. How

O
(Orangutan, 262
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 11:36am

Ravenous is spot on. How competitive you are within your specific bucket is what matters.

My WSO Blog

UFOinsider's picture

cinnamontoastcrunch

O
(Human, 10,300
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 11:50am
cinnamontoastcrunch:

Ravenous is spot on. How competitive you are within your specific bucket is what matters.

Is it possible to straddle buckets? Or shoot for the "other" category? While my finance work history is good and improving, I have a bunch of random but interesting experiences that I can weave into a story. I'm wondering if the schools may just be of the mind "well shit, I don't know what to do with this guy but he's interesting so let's bring him in and see what happens".

I'm asking a relatively focused demographic here, I get that, but I'm just curious what the parameters here are...

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

inspireddude's picture

re: bucketing of

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 12:08pm

re: bucketing of applications

does this more or less mean those in MO positions basically can't compete with FO within finance?

well damn...

Ravenous's picture

I think it's possible but you

HF
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 12:09pm

I think it's possible but you have to have a pretty convincing pitch. If you volunteered at a soup kitchen for a month and suddenly got religion about helping people, that's not going to fool anyone. If you've been pursuing something with a respectable amount of diligence and have tangible accomplishments over a 3-5 year period (or whatever looks substantial), then you might have a shot if your pitch is convincing -- "Yeah, I built huts in Africa for a year and realized that you can't really get anything done without financing, so I got interested in a career in finance and I've done both over the last 5 years, so now you should take me as a non-traditional candidate because I want to use my MBA to built even more huts in Africa after I graduate." So now you're "hut guy who has a finance background" instead of "finance guy." Or whatever, you get the point.

UFOinsider's picture

Ravenous wrote: I think it's

O
(Human, 10,300
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 12:11pm
Ravenous:

I think it's possible but you have to have a pretty convincing pitch. If you volunteered at a soup kitchen for a month and suddenly got religion about helping people, that's not going to fool anyone. If you've been pursuing something with a respectable amount of diligence and have tangible accomplishments over a 3-5 year period (or whatever looks substantial), then you might have a shot if your pitch is convincing -- "Yeah, I built huts in Africa for a year and realized that you can't really get anything done without financing, so I got interested in a career in finance and I've done both over the last 5 years, so now you should take me as a non-traditional candidate because I want to use my MBA to built even more huts in Africa after I graduate." So now you're "hut guy who has a finance background" instead of "finance guy." Or whatever, you get the point.

Fascinating. Thanks

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

Ravenous's picture

I think you can probably

HF
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 12:12pm
inspireddude's picture

*looks up programs with hut

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 12:18pm
Boothorbust's picture

inspireddude wrote: re:

O
(King Kong, 1,129
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 12:18pm
inspireddude's picture

Sounds good, thanks Booth.

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 12:35pm
charlie 09's picture

How much do they care about

CO
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 12:54pm
M Friedman's picture

Booth or Bust, love the

(King Kong, 1,007
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 6:28pm

See my WSO blogs here.

markhobbus's picture

Keep in mind that it's Kaplan

(Baboon, 138
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 8:03pm
Boothorbust's picture

markhobbus wrote: Keep in

O
(King Kong, 1,129
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 8:06pm
EngBanker's picture

charlie 09 wrote: How much do

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 8:18pm
UFOinsider's picture

Boothorbust

O
(Human, 10,300
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 9:02pm

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

aempirei's picture

How good/bad does it look if

IB
(Gorilla, 726
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 9:05pm

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

UFOinsider's picture

How much does a good GMAT

O
(Human, 10,300
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 9:07pm

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

petergibbons's picture

EngBanker wrote: They

CO
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:01pm

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points

nori90's picture

Is this GRE Score good for B

(Baboon, 109
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:04pm
Ravenous's picture

petergibbons

HF
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:16pm
EngBanker's picture

nori90 wrote: Is this GRE

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:18pm
EngBanker's picture

Ravenous wrote: I'm not

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:23pm
nori90's picture

Thanks a lot for your

(Baboon, 109
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:25pm
EngBanker's picture

Also, you can read more about

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:28pm
EngBanker's picture

nori90 wrote: Btw a lot of

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:42pm
nori90's picture

I see. However, studying

(Baboon, 109
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:48pm
EngBanker's picture

nori90 wrote: I see. However,

 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 10:55pm
nori90's picture

Great! Thanks a lot! Good

(Baboon, 109
 
Points)
 on 3/28/12 at 11:02pm
N.R.G.'s picture

EngBanker, that quant thing

(Orangutan, 293
 
Points)
 on 3/29/12 at 12:13am
EngBanker's picture

N.R.G. wrote: EngBanker, that

 
Points)
 on 3/29/12 at 12:21am
ke18sb's picture

80/80 rule for top schools.

PE
(King Kong, 1,091
 
Points)
 on 3/29/12 at 3:29am
aempirei's picture

ke18sb wrote: 80/80 rule for

IB
(Gorilla, 726
 
Points)
 on 3/29/12 at 3:27pm

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

EngBanker's picture

aempirei wrote: Is 80th+

 
Points)
 on 3/29/12 at 7:01pm
Kools's picture

shorttheworld wrote: last

O
 
Points)
 on 3/29/12 at 7:56pm
ke18sb's picture

If you were to get 80th in

PE
(King Kong, 1,091
 
Points)
 on 3/29/12 at 9:13pm
av8ter's picture

UFOinsider wrote: Ravenous

O
 
Points)
 on 3/30/12 at 6:07pm
Otter.'s picture

aempirei wrote: ke18sb

CD
(Gorilla, 551
 
Points)
 on 4/2/12 at 4:51pm

Hi, Eric Stratton, rush chairman, damn glad to meet you.

PanAfricanBanker's picture

So how bad does one look for

PE
(Baboon, 162
 
Points)
 on 4/2/12 at 5:28pm

- Ostende Mihi Pecuniam -

Boothorbust's picture

PanAfricanBanker wrote: So

O
(King Kong, 1,129
 
Points)
 on 4/2/12 at 6:00pm
IRSPB's picture

700 is the magic number,

 
Points)
 on 4/3/12 at 5:02pm

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