5/30/15

If you have a solid navy suit, is there a rule of thumb for when to wear brown vs. black shoes dress shoes? Does it depend on shirt or tie color?

Before someone says it, there are plenty of threads. However, none that definitively provide an answer to my question.

Just tryin' to look great...

Comments (131)

10/7/13

I think it's just a matter of taste/how you want to look. I'm sure you've heard the old Brit addage "no brown in town", but myself personally think that brown shoes look esp nice with navy suits (so long as the shoes are dark, don't really like the lighter hues of brown.) I think that traditionally however, black shoes are the most appropriate, even with navy suits (despite idiot girls that tell me you can't wear black with navy) for business/formal events.

Bottom line, I don't think that there is an "answer" to this question.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.

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3/27/14

Any brown shade within reason will look good...

Put your suit on and go to the AE store and try them all on...

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

5/17/14

Black, black, black possibly shiny polished black...

12/10/14

.

10/8/13

Anihilist:

I think it's just a matter of taste/how you want to look. I'm sure you've heard the old Brit addage "no brown in town", but myself personally think that brown shoes look esp nice with navy suits (so long as the shoes are dark, don't really like the lighter hues of brown.) I think that traditionally however, black shoes are the most appropriate, even with navy suits (despite idiot girls that tell me you can't wear black with navy) for business/formal events.

Bottom line, I don't think that there is an "answer" to this question.

Hit the nail exactly on the head. The only people who will frown on brown with navy suits are the Brits, so if you're ever in the City, avoid anything except black footwear when conducting business (and don't be caught in a loafer).

That being said, brown (in any shade) is considered more complimentary to navy than black.

TwoThrones:

When I was interviewing, some kid showed up with a navy suit and walnut shoes. Not gonna lie, looked pretty sweet.

Might that have been me? That was my power combo for years, haha.

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3/27/14

Thanks.

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)

10/8/13

APAE that is not entirely true. I spent this past summer interning in Mayfair and nearly everyone had on a blue suit with dark brown shirts.

Traps

3/27/14

agree

10/7/13

Most women will say never black with blue. I think either way you can look good, but brown definitely looks much better.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

3/27/14

Dark

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.

5/17/14

Check out the Allen Edmond's factory seconds. I bought a pair of AE Jefferson's in cognac and looks absolutely beautiful. It was only $230 too. Usually they have a slight defect (cosmetic defects only, no functional defects). With that said, most of the typical AE's such as Park Avenues and 5th avenues I find a little too conservative.

12/10/14

Generally, yes. It will work. Some people do not like brown and navy. I personally think as long as the shoes and the belt are a dark enough brown it looks good. It's ridiculous, but if you are going that route it is very important that your belt is as dark as your shoes, even more so than normally. Otherwise, it really won't look good at all. Just a warning.

3/27/14

Any reason walnut is a poor choice?

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)

10/7/13

When I was interviewing, some kid showed up with a navy suit and walnut shoes. Not gonna lie, looked pretty sweet.

3/27/14

IMO dark is more conservative and versatile.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.

5/17/14

Nordstrom Rack

12/10/14

Always just match belt with shoes. Then Brown + Blue is actually better than Black + Blue

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

3/27/14

Thanks.

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)

12/10/14

yeahright:

Always just match belt with shoes. Then Brown + Blue is actually better than Black + Blue

I think that if you called in the British fashion police they'd say that blue and brown is absolutely correct and blue and black is wrong.

10/7/13

Black, Brown or Cordovan shoes all look great with blue suits. Just make sure you have a matching belt and wear the proper socks. Black socks should only be worn with black shoes.

3/27/14

go dark. and navy suit/brown shoes is a yummy combo. keep it up. make sure to get a belt to match and you're set.

5/17/14

AE Strand, Park Ave, Fifth Ave in Walnut or Black.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

12/10/14

FWIW, I always wear brown shoes/belt with a navy suit to anywhere that matters

10/7/13

FormerHornetDriver:

Black, Brown or Cordovan shoes all look great with blue suits. Just make sure you have a matching belt and wear the proper socks. Black socks should only be worn with black shoes.

I personally don't care for burgundy shoes.

Not sure how I feel about Walnut, but was looking at AE and was debating between Bourbon and Brown for now:
http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF57...

3/27/14

Always match my belt and my shoes. Thanks!

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)

10/7/13

Can't go wrong with AEs. I am wearing my black pair of Fifth Avenue AEs today. Very comfy shoes on a nice thick sole.
I also have the walnut version but I wear them only on the weekends for less formal clothes.
It's a steal for that price.
One more guide link for shoes choice with the suit.

http://www.theshoesnobblog.com/2010/02/shoe-color-vs-suit-color.html

10/13/13

peinvestor2012:

FormerHornetDriver:

Black, Brown or Cordovan shoes all look great with blue suits. Just make sure you have a matching belt and wear the proper socks. Black socks should only be worn with black shoes.

I personally don't care for burgundy shoes.

Not sure how I feel about Walnut, but was looking at AE and was debating between Bourbon and Brown for now:

http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF57...

I own the 5th Aves in 3 colors (this model is always on sale). If you want a more conservative look get the Brown Burnished ones. The bourbon ones are a little too bright imo (they only look dark in the pic)

On Fridays I wear 5th Aves or McAllisters in Walnut. The color looks great w/ light navy imo. It depends on your work culture and whether you'll see clients that day.

I want to get the Park Avenues in Cordovan Burgundy but I just can't get myself to pay $500-$600 for shoes. That's 1k before taxes.

10/27/13

mb666:

peinvestor2012:
FormerHornetDriver:

Black, Brown or Cordovan shoes all look great with blue suits. Just make sure you have a matching belt and wear the proper socks. Black socks should only be worn with black shoes.

I personally don't care for burgundy shoes.

Not sure how I feel about Walnut, but was looking at AE and was debating between Bourbon and Brown for now:

http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF57...

I own the 5th Aves in 3 colors (this model is always on sale). If you want a more conservative look get the Brown Burnished ones. The bourbon ones are a little too bright imo (they only look dark in the pic)

On Fridays I wear 5th Aves or McAllisters in Walnut. The color looks great w/ light navy imo. It depends on your work culture and whether you'll see clients that day.

I want to get the Park Avenues in Cordovan Burgundy but I just can't get myself to pay $500-$600 for shoes. That's 1k before taxes.

Yea, personally I like the Brown best. I think the Walnut is just a bit too light with traditional Navy and I'm not sure I could pull of Burgundy.

7/29/14

Ditto this

10/7/13

I've alo heard girls say not to wear black shoes with navy suits, but I personally think they look fine. However, brown shoes with navy suits is the more conventional combination, and looks great. To put it in perspective formality wise, I might wear a navy suit and black shoes to an interview/a first day, and then brown shoes and a navy suit later. I think navy and black looks more formal.

3/27/14

Make the first pair dark, then when you're in the market for a second pair you can go lighter, or maybe mix it up with some cordovan. But as said above, the dark brown is very versatile

I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

5/19/14

While I favor black, I also like a dark brown as well.

12/10/14

navy suit with brown shoes is a classic look, IMO.

3/28/14

Now to try and use this response to convince the wife that I need 2 pair of brown shoes.

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)

4/6/14

AcctNerd:

Now to try and use this response to convince the wife that I need 2 pair of brown shoes.

Jesus... Get some fuking balls. Convince the wife you need shoes? How fuking ironic... I bet she gets permission for her shoe purchases.

If you want shoes buy them. You work right? So spend your money.

4/7/14

I think you may need to chill a bit, pretty sure he was kidding.

10/7/13

Dark brown captoes and a navy suit is pretty much my uniform. However, it is seen as a little less conservative in some circles.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

3/27/14

depending on the hue of navy, bourbon shoes may be a great option. This was advice I was given. Agree that you should wear your suit to go try the shoes on too

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5/20/14

I think dark brown is good.

12/10/14

Yes. I don't like your shoes though.

12/11/14

ArcherVice:

Yes. I don't like your shoes though.

this

10/7/13

I only wear brown shoes with navy suits. Black shoes are too formal and isn't it a fashion no-no to wear black and navy together?

3/27/14

If you don't mind looking fashionable, rock the British tan. It's a bold look.

5/20/14

It is worth the extra few bucks to get Allen Edmonds if for nothing else than the long term use you will get from them.

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)

10/7/13

If you don't wear black shoes with a navy suit...I'm not sure what color you'd wear them with

3/27/14

The darker the navy, the darker the shoes. Check out some Grensons.

5/23/14

I have actually had these for awhile and they look great with my navy suit: http://www.colehaan.com/air-stylar-split-oxford-t-...

Despite the price they have lasted quite a while (quite a bit more when I picked them up), I would buy the belt at the same time as that is a difficult color to match.

10/7/13

Charcoal, grey, and black

10/7/13

goblan:

Charcoal, grey, and black

Cannot believe he asked that question

10/7/13

goblan:

Charcoal, grey, and black

I think black shoes look terrible with grey suits, and nobody wears black suits to work. Guess you could do black and charcoal

10/7/13

abcdefghij:

goblan:

Charcoal, grey, and black

I think black shoes look terrible with grey suits, and nobody wears black suits to work. Guess you could do black and charcoal

So you only wear brown shoes with grey suits?

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.

10/7/13

brown shoes with navy suit all the way, and like above posters have said make sure they match with socks, belt, tie etc

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3/28/14

Definitely go for a dark shade of brown, like chocolate.

5/23/14

Determine your sizes for some decent shoes, AE as others have suggested, and buy them off ebay.

3/28/14

Thanks.

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)

10/7/13

would cop oxblood shoes instead. traditionally more formal than brown, and i think it's more versatile as well. looks kick ass with a navy suit.

3/28/14

Darker side of brown shoes with navy is what i usually wear. People say it looks good.

5/27/14

Just a side comment. With a navy suit you should AVOID black shoes. Black shoes go well with black suit, perhaps grey.

6/2/14

Capo_MBA:

Just a side comment. With a navy suit you should AVOID black shoes. Black shoes go well with black suit, perhaps grey.

Agree. The black shoe look is not very current for the analyst age group anyway. I only wear them when I have no other choice.

10/7/13
5/27/14

how has no on mentioned cole haans yet?

Wu noAi re

10/7/13

You only get navy shoes with navy suits. Period. That's the drawback of them.

5/27/14

also zara has a decent selection too

Wu noAi re

10/7/13

1/10.

You can do better.

10/8/13

Best rule to follow is your shoes need to be darker then your suit, especially with a Navy suit. Make sure the shoes are a dark brown not too light and make sure your belt matches the shoes, basics!

5/27/14

Traditionally brown or some version of brown (cognac, etc) are appropriate for blue suits and black shoes should be avoided, although that's largely disregarded today. I often wear black shoes with navy suits but from an old school Saville Row point of view, it goes against the rules.

10/8/13

Brown shoes with a navy suit is chill if you wear a brown belt with it. Or black shoes and a black belt. As the old adage goes, Belt and shoes go together like sex and cigarettes.

6/1/14

I never wear black shoes. I hate the look.

10/8/13

I do not think that it is allowed.

More importantly it would look bit weird wearing two shoes of two different color!

10/8/13

tim75:

I do not think that it is allowed.

More importantly it would look bit weird wearing two shoes of two different color!

You tried hard to be both technical and funny. You failed at both.

10/8/13

Black is the most conservative and formal, hence the most appropriate for client facing roles. Don't listen to what women say, black and navy is one of the most classic men's combinations there is. The same goes for black and grey. The fact that this question is so heavily debated on here is astounding. I thought bankers were supposed to be smart? I suggest you all read up on dressing appropriately for the occasion.

10/8/13

Monkeyfaces:

Black is the most conservative and formal, hence the most appropriate for client facing roles. Don't listen to what women say, black and navy is one of the most classic men's combinations there is. The same goes for black and grey. The fact that this question is so heavily debated on here is astounding. I thought bankers were supposed to be smart? I suggest you all read up on dressing appropriately for the occasion.

Thanks for adding nothing and wasting everyone's time.

10/8/13

peinvestor2012:

Monkeyfaces:

Black is the most conservative and formal, hence the most appropriate for client facing roles. Don't listen to what women say, black and navy is one of the most classic men's combinations there is. The same goes for black and grey. The fact that this question is so heavily debated on here is astounding. I thought bankers were supposed to be smart? I suggest you all read up on dressing appropriately for the occasion.

Thanks for adding nothing and wasting everyone's time.

The guys who are saying that navy and black is a no-no are wasting everyone's time. Black and navy is the most correct combination there is.

There is no debate here. It does not depend on shirt or tie color, black goes with everything, as long as the suit is navy, grey or charcoal. There are certain rules in menswear, and they can be found very easily on google.

Wear black shoes if you want to be more conservative, wear dark brown if you want to be a bit more casual. One can even argue that if you want to be a bit more casual you shouldn't be wearing a navy suit in the first place.

My comment added a whole lot more than yours. Why don't you counter my statements in a friendly discussion if you disagree, instead of referring to ad hominems?

10/8/13

Gee, black shoes are a must have. How profound.

10/8/13

peinvestor2012:

Gee, black shoes are a must have. How profound.

Then why did you ask the question if you knew the answer already? I gave you the rule of thumb you so desired: Black with navy, grey and charcoal when dressing formal for the office, brown (and every other colour) when dressing casual with a navy sportcoat for example.

Ties and shirts are not relevant in this equation. The only exception being brown ties, which you should only wear with brown shoes and belt, and perhaps burgundy.

You asked a very simple question, and lo and behold, it has a simple answer as well. It's not rocket science.

10/8/13

The British (and Americans until around the 1940s) came up for these rules for a reason, adhering to them ensured you looked good. Over time the lounge suit rules iterated to perfection.

When I see somebody breaking one of the rules, it tells me that this person never was exposed to proper dress, which in most countries implies something about their social status and origin. As I got older and learnt more about the world, I started seeing square, light brown shoes worn with a purple-striped navy suit as a sign of a doer instead of someone who needs a lesson in basic dressing ideas. The most interesting are those who break the rules consistently and thoughtfully (for example wearing the wrong outfit perfectly).

Still, brown shoes would be appropriate with tweed or other countryside outfits, whilst black is what should be worn in any meeting room. This especially applies to navy, which is the most formal colour a man can wear (for example, appropriate at a wedding when one does not have a morning suit). To then wear a "casual" colour designed for one's country estate is an interesting choice, which takes quite a stretch of the imagination to justify as spezzatura (the careful art of pretend carelessness that characterises the tasteful).

One caveat: if you spend a bit of time studying Apparel Arts or other fashion magazines from the first half of the 20th century (arguably the peak of male dress) you find that "clients" wore considerably more liberal outfits than their "bankers" or service providers. For example: http://cdn.styleforum.net/1/17/900x900px-LL-176a3b...

I'll let you think about that one ;)

10/8/13

Adding even more value, a comparison of different black captoes. Go and pick your next pair of shoes! I'm a big fan of the Gaziano & Girlings, but the John Lobbs are very nice too.
http://www.styleforum.net/t/362365/the-quintessent...

"No man should be without a pair of black dress shoes in his wardrobe; if there is room only for one pair, it would be the quintessential black cap toe oxford. It is one of the most versatile shoes a man can own, suitable for nearly all formal occasions from office to weddings. While dark brown offers deep patina and changing highlights, black brings out the best in mirror shine at the same time being a subtle conservative foundation to a good outfit."

I suggest you read all 683 pages of this thread:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/309586/whnay-s-good-ta...

10/8/13

Just my two cents:

Regardless if you think women are wrong on this, black and blue do not go together. I always see people wearing a blue suit and black shoes, and it looks like they are clashing. It looks sloppy. The black shoes hinder the blue in your suit. If you combine the right shade of brown, with a matching belt, and some nice blue socks, then your blue suit color pops out more. Black and blue are too similar, and they should not be worn together (in my opinion). Its like the same thing as wearing a red t-shirt with orange shorts.. Too similar. You need some nice contrast/complimentary colors.

"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin

10/8/13

StudentLoanBackedSecurities:

Just my two cents:

Regardless if you think women are wrong on this, black and blue do not go together. I always see people wearing a blue suit and black shoes, and it looks like they are clashing. It looks sloppy. The black shoes hinder the blue in your suit. If you combine the right shade of brown, with a matching belt, and some nice blue socks, then your blue suit color pops out more. Black and blue are too similar, and they should not be worn together (in my opinion). Its like the same thing as wearing a red t-shirt with orange shorts.. Too similar. You need some nice contrast/complimentary colors.

Sorry, but that's just wrong. As EURCHF parity so eloquently stated: "When I see somebody breaking one of the rules, it tells me that this person never was exposed to proper dress, which in most countries implies something about their social status and origin."

If you're caught wearing brown and navy (I hope you're not wearing blue suits to work!), in for example London, people will judge you for it.

When it comes to dressing appropriately for the office, individual opinions are simply less relevant, whether you like it or not.

10/8/13

StudentLoanBackedSecurities:

Just my two cents:

Regardless if you think women are wrong on this, black and blue do not go together. I always see people wearing a blue suit and black shoes, and it looks like they are clashing. It looks sloppy. The black shoes hinder the blue in your suit. If you combine the right shade of brown, with a matching belt, and some nice blue socks, then your blue suit color pops out more. Black and blue are too similar, and they should not be worn together (in my opinion). Its like the same thing as wearing a red t-shirt with orange shorts.. Too similar. You need some nice contrast/complimentary colors.

We should all take this junior's advice seriously, as he is a true trend-setter and fashionista.

10/8/13

peinvestor, this thread is hilarious! You ask a legitimate question, and then when people answer, you crap in their pants. Haha, I'm loving it!

10/8/13

TwoThrones:

peinvestor, this thread is hilarious! You ask a legitimate question, and then when people answer, you crap in their pants. Haha, I'm loving it!

Glad I could amuse you.

10/8/13

StudentLoanBackedSecurities:

Just my two cents:

Regardless if you think women are wrong on this, black and blue do not go together. I always see people wearing a blue suit and black shoes, and it looks like they are clashing. It looks sloppy. The black shoes hinder the blue in your suit. If you combine the right shade of brown, with a matching belt, and some nice blue socks, then your blue suit color pops out more. Black and blue are too similar, and they should not be worn together (in my opinion). Its like the same thing as wearing a red t-shirt with orange shorts.. Too similar. You need some nice contrast/complimentary colors.


Another note on black and navy: shining black shoes with navy is a great idea and one of the ways in which one can deepen the colour of the shoe whilst remaining correct. I recommend wax instead of the kwikwax type horrors, applied sparsely and with a hint of water on the hard bits once a week. It takes around 40 minutes to obtain the correct effect. If you care.

Regarding grey suits and black shoes:
http://www.levinerwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2010...

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/de/wp-content/upl...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b367/thunderw21/...

And here's a chap returning from the country, for a nice contrast: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-J1VOLK7RFX8/To7LBnnZW2I/...

The Mayfair angle is interesting. I do think that a lot of the companies (read: hedge funds) in Mayfair are on the "doing" side, whereas most of the City and Canary Wharf is in the business of providing professional services and dress accordingly. When you are having lunch with Amitabh from Blackbox Capital, you sure won't say a word about his wearing a blazer (impeccably) outside a sports event. And of course, talking of grey, the correct colour of trousers with a navy sports coat, you would then pair it with brown shoes, as is appropriate with the setting.

10/8/13

From a Yank in London:

- Loafers in the City are very common, and a fast majority of said loafers are penny loafers (someone above indicated that loafers were rare in London, they are incorrect)

- No brown in town is violated by two groups: Americans (who often wear Oxblood, but sometimes just dress like they want to be made fun of) and stylish Mediterranean types (the latter often also sport beards, they have special rules)

Ultimately, you can do what you want to express yourself sartorially. If you really feel like black shoes with a navy blue suit violates your sensibilities, then go ahead and wear brown. Just know that you are taking a huge risk. Historically, clothes signalled that you went to the right school and University, and knew the right people who told you off when you dressed poorly. These days, you can fake fitting in through a careful study of the internet, though there is plenty of misinformation out there.

Ultimately, EURCHF and Monkeyface are absolutely correct. The truth is, StudentLoanBackedSecurities, that your opinion is less important than the opinion of those who have banded together for a very long time to try and establish a non-linguistic code for excluding those who are not "in the know". Their contempt is honed by several generations of running the world, so I'd defer to their judgement. Less risky.

10/8/13

cityknight:

From a Yank in London:

- Loafers in the City are very common, and a fast majority of said loafers are penny loafers (someone above indicated that loafers were rare in London, they are incorrect)

- No brown in town is violated by two groups: Americans (who often wear Oxblood, but sometimes just dress like they want to be made fun of) and stylish Mediterranean types (the latter often also sport beards, they have special rules)

Ultimately, you can do what you want to express yourself sartorially. If you really feel like black shoes with a navy blue suit violates your sensibilities, then go ahead and wear brown. Just know that you are taking a huge risk. Historically, clothes signalled that you went to the right school and University, and knew the right people who told you off when you dressed poorly. These days, you can fake fitting in through a careful study of the internet, though there is plenty of misinformation out there.

Ultimately, EURCHF and Monkeyface are absolutely correct. The truth is, StudentLoanBackedSecurities, that your opinion is less important than the opinion of those who have banded together for a very long time to try and establish a non-linguistic code for excluding those who are not "in the know". Their contempt is honed by several generations of running the world, so I'd defer to their judgement. Less risky.

Interesting. I always thought oxblood/burgundy (i.e. Alden's Color 8 shell) did not count as brown for purposes of the rule. I'm guessing the Americans are sporting those while the Italians run around in antiqued dark brown leather.

10/8/13

Depends on how judgemental the Brit in question is feeling. My current MD looks down on belts - a lack of tabs is a sign of general impoverishment.

And good looking Italian fellows know they can get away with anything. London may have codified the ground rules of looking proper, but plenty of Italians will catch you peering down at their suede brogues and give you a look that leaves no doubt as to who invented looking fucking fantastic.

10/9/13

cityknight:

Depends on how judgemental the Brit in question is feeling. My current MD looks down on belts - a lack of tabs is a sign of general impoverishment.

Insecure junior bankers in London wearing pants with loops without belts because belts are for peons is literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. It's going to be obvious whether pants are custom, which is what the actual judgement will be based on.

10/9/13

meabric:

cityknight:

Depends on how judgemental the Brit in question is feeling. My current MD looks down on belts - a lack of tabs is a sign of general impoverishment.

Insecure junior bankers in London wearing pants with loops without belts because belts are for peons is literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. It's going to be obvious whether pants are custom, which is what the actual judgement will be based on.


Not at all, and that guy's MD is perfectly right to attempt to get his juniors to dress properly.

The evolution of the suit to sell more volume to the uneducated customer has let to a drop in the waistline, and a narrowing of everything (basically, most people like to wear suits that look 2 sizes too small). Here's an example:
http://www.itsnotforgirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2...

His low waistline will cause the trousers to keep wanting to fall down, whilst their tightness will cause his balls to be squeezed at every occasion, particularly sitting, and his belt buckle will ride up into his stomach, whilst the top half of his ass will probably be struggling to be covered, and stuffing a shirt in there is not going to look good in real life. The pleatless front is even more indication of pain to come as there is no space for the leg to expand and move around below the waistline.

A correct waistline is much higher for the simple reason that a suit was originally designed to be worn, and comfortable, and a high waistline both allows you considerably more movement, and naturally holds the pants at the right height. Belt loops are good to maintain the right fit as your weight goes up and down within a small range. Here's a few examples of the correct waist height:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wwgXxAjQedA/S-FEZmycyfI/...

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/wp-content/upload...

http://www.favorideas.com/images/suit-couple.jpg

Note the pleats (forward facing in Britain, backwards facing in Italy; I would go with the Brits).

There are plenty of RTW shops in London and New York that will sell properly made suits, including with a higher waistline and no belt loops. Look for example at Oliver Brown who for GBP 400 includes a same-day fitting service, or somewhere like Cordings around Picadilly. Investing in a proper suit will make you happier as you will actually be comfortable in it during the enormous hours you are pulling at work, and you do not need to spend Savile Row's 3,000 GBP average price for a two piece to get there.

10/10/13

EURCHF parity:
Here's a few examples of the correct waist height:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wwgXxAjQedA/S-FEZmycyfI/...

http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/wp-content/upload...

http://www.favorideas.com/images/suit-couple.jpg

Are these examples serious or were you just trying to see if everyone was paying attention?

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."

10/10/13

I gather that he is European. The old guard takes a decidedly intolerant view of the emergence of trends. To such people, there is one true proper way; anything else is but one of an innumerable myriad of improper ways.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

10/11/13

A properly dressed person has two effects:
- to the casual observer he appears neater and better put together; if done well, this results in the person themselves looking better, without noticing the clothing;
- to those who have grown up around certain signals, it signals belonging and initiates trust that may be harder to earn in other ways.

This is especially true in investment banking which is a. full of people who grew up around certain signals b. full of money to purchase good clothes and, later, good advice on what to wear and how.

There are objective standards of aesthetics, contrarily to what most universities would proclaim today. A CIA-funded Pollock is clearly inferior to a Rembrandt or Renoir. Those standards are present in dress whether or not you care to acknowledge them.

I type this in shorts and T-shirt, the dress code at my current company. Amongst makers, the only bar is that of output.

10/11/13

I fully agree with what you said. Nonetheless, you'd never catch me in a tailored garment with that much of a rise. My clothing (with the exception of a handful of Brooks Brothers shirts bought before my final summer analyst stint which I have not yet replaced) is entirely made-to-measure or bespoke, yet I wear trousers with a lower rise. They do not slip down my backside, nor do I fail to receive spoken or unspoken compliments on my attire frequently.

The Puritanical mindset that proscribes any deviation from one codified rule is simply anachronistic.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

10/11/13

APAE:

or unspoken

What would that be, like a wolf-whistle?

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.

10/11/13

triple post or whatever

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.

10/11/13

,

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.

10/11/13

Anihilist:

APAE:

or unspoken

What would that be, like a wolf-whistle?

You know when a woman is glancing at you because she's simply looking around vs. when she's eye-fucking the shit out of you.

Same phenomenon with a man. Sometimes someone looks at you simply because their eyes are roving, some look at you without even seeing you because their mind is a million miles away, and some are looking at you because such is their sexual preference and they want you to know they want you.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

10/11/13

It becomes personal opinion I guess, which divides many of the customers of such establishments, but for example I much prefer Huntsman or D&S to Boateng, on Savile Row (with the soft style of A&S being my top choice altogether, as I find padded shoulders stuffy). As for anachronism, it becomes a question of choosing your decade. Colour-wise, Boateng's designs are a throwback to Palm Beach in the 40s, where dinner jackets started taking on things like burgundy tartan. His lapels and fit are one or two decades older, still your grandfather's days. Fashions come and go, but proportions are timeless. You wouldn't want thin lapels or a very narrow collar if you are heavy set.

The idea is not to receive compliment, as you are so well dressed that it passes unnoticed. You wouldn't think of complimenting your grandfather on his well tailored suit - in your mind he has always been elegant, it goes with his character. The only people who notice my suits, especially in the colonies, usually are bespoke customer themselves and ask me where they can find my tailor. Women do not know what makes good tailoring, just as you wouldn't know how to dress your wife or comment intelligently on her choice of fashion.

As for the rise, I can personally attest to the greater comfort of the higher one, and find it quite ugly to see much shirt below the buttoned part of one's coat. It reminds me of school kids trying to look like hip hop stars in their uniforms. But to each their own - particularly if the suit's purpose is to attract younger women with dubious sense of aesthetics, although in this case I'd recommend hitting the gym instead of focusing on the garment.

10/11/13

APAE:

I gather that he is European. The old guard takes a decidedly intolerant view of the emergence of trends. To such people, there is one true proper way; anything else is but one of an innumerable myriad of improper ways.

He posted two pics from magazines that look like they are from the 1950s and a pic of Prince Charles!

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."

10/8/13

cityknight:
The truth is, StudentLoanBackedSecurities, that your opinion is less important than the opinion of those who have banded together for a very long time to try and establish a non-linguistic code for excluding those who are not "in the know".

I am tempted to resurrect Alan Plusser's quip about the value of women's opinion on male dress but I shall leave it to those interested in his excellent book :P
10/8/13

Black shoes and a Navy suit absolutely do go together. Why are we talking about what the dressing conventions of women are?

10/8/13

At banks in the City and Canary Wharf black shoes is all you see. Mayfair is a slightly different environment. And yes, those Italians all seem to grow beards and longer hair as soon as they hit VP.

10/9/13

Mayfair: where restaurants' extra ties are worn by hedgies worth more than the restaurant itself.

10/9/13

This is why interns show up looking like, well, interns.

10/11/13

Brown flat out looks better. Go with brown for any situation except if what these posters are saying about banks is true.. I have no experience at banks.

Recap: black at bank. Brown anywhere else.

10/13/13

Fashions come and go, but proportions are timeless.
Agreed, heartily. The classic YSL quote comes to mind.
The idea is not to receive compliment, as you are so well dressed that it passes unnoticed.
True. I have been guilty of violating this; as a young man, there have been times I have purposely dressed to be noticed. As I've matured (it is a lifelong process), it's been more of an effort to dress well enough that the clothing complements my person rather than shouting on my behalf. Again, similar to the old saying about money: "Money talks, wealth whispers."

At this point, the people who comment on my clothing are exactly those you mentioned, other bespoke customers who inquire about my tailor. I disagree with your point about women and tailoring (and vice versa). I have been making more of an effort to be conversant in womenswear, and there have been times when ladies have made intelligent comments on my attire.

Regarding the gym, we've already got that covered. That unfortunately is the reason I began pursuing custom clothing in the first place; off-the-rack garments stopped fitting. At this point, my measurements are drop-11.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

10/13/13

Indeed, as they used to say in ballroom, "be the frame on which the lady shines". To her the bright green and red flamboyance and interesting innovations. This is not to say that it is not possible to be original with taste, but our world is that of textures and proportions.

Let me qualify my statement: I've found that vastly more men, than women, know about male dress. Thus it is often the case that "getting female attention" is no sign of being tastefully dressed.

I find female fashion rather incomprehensible, due to its breadth and the much wider varieties of body shapes and colours to contend with; as such my attitude has always been to stay quiet and let live. Specific comments tend to draw wrath, anyway. As Anatole France used to say "life is too short and Proust is too long".

10/27/13

As an employee at Jos. A Banks, I would suggest black. Assuming you're not too into fashion considering you asked the question, most people who wear brown shoes with navy suits try too hard and match the belt with their shoes, and its off. And black goes with black, and every shade of grey suit. What type of shoe? Versace loafers, theyre pretty conservative, and last forever. Just my two cents.

10/27/13

HNEP:

As an employee at Jos. A Banks, I would suggest black. Assuming you're not too into fashion considering you asked the question, most people who wear brown shoes with navy suits try too hard and match the belt with their shoes, and its off. And black goes with black, and every shade of grey suit. What type of shoe? Versace loafers, theyre pretty conservative, and last forever. Just my two cents.

Terrible troll attempt.

10/27/13

.

11/6/13

Apologies for the bump but...
http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2013/11/06/what...

Discussion over.

11/6/13

meabric:

Apologies for the bump but...

http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2013/11/06/what...

Discussion over.

+1 meab

6/10/14

>> http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2013/11/06/what...
>> Discussion over.

Yeah, white suit and purple shoes. 'nuff said!

6/6/14

If you wear any additional accessory to your outfit it should somehow compliment with each other.The best thing to go with for a navy suit is to wear brown shoes that matches any other accessories such as tie, belt, shirt etc.

6/10/14

Brown looks way better with navy. Its not boring, yet not too much.

7/28/14

Black and brown Park Avenues are on sale at Nordstroms for $240 until August 4th. McAllisters and Strands are also on sale.

7/30/14

Season def plays a role--black shoes are more formal and wintry; brown/walnut better for warmers temps. Both are okay looks-wise. I'm not in love with the combination in the picture: shoe color a bit too rusty for the shade of pant and fit too small--foot appears wide and short. The lace and toe cap accents do well to minimize the width, but a wider toe would balance out perspective more.

1/25/15

lol at the guy suggesting super high rise and pleats. But seriously why are we holding ourselves to fashion standards of the 40's in 2015? Black looks ok with a navy suit but brown (darker)/burgundy definitely looks better. It also looks just as classy as black or sometimes even more so. I guess if it is the norm in the office and is frowned upon then do what needs to be done, but I certaintly don't want to only wear black cap toes for the rest of my life. Also, I think if females agree that should tell you something.

2/6/15

What do you guys think for the 5th avenue in chili with a blue suit. (hard to describe a color, but slightly lighter than navy)

The only thing that worries me is chili shoes. In my country is ok, but here everyone is concerned about being conservative. Any time it's all about your knowledge, not about lovely shoes lol.

2/10/15

Black shoes are great and essentially foolproof. When you start to wear brown shoes, you have to be extremely conscious of which shade you're wearing. Nothing looks worse than when someone is wearing brown shoes and they have a belt that is another shade of brown. This goes for watch bands as well. Additionally, it's not really appropriate to wear brown shoes to any type of evening event, as they are a much more casual choice. Brown shoes with a navy suit is trendy, but black shoes are timeless.

2/26/15

I like wearing chestnut oxfords with navy suits. My two cents..

4/2/15

i would like to wear brown shoes

4/4/15

Got my first job on Wall Street interviewing in a blue suit, brown shoes, white shirt, (red+black) tie.

5/30/15

Both can look good-depends on how formal the event is. For example I would never wear brown shoes with a navy suit to a formal dinner.

5/30/15

Brown shoes and brown belt with a navy suit always

5/30/15
5/30/15
7/20/16
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Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky
6/3/15
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