BlackRock Fixed Income PMG

Hi guys,

I am currently applying for some internships and graduate roles and I do have have some questions with regards to BlackRock's FI PMG (NY) as I am considering to apply there. What do you think of this division with regards to prestige, exit opportunities, quality of people?

Do you think it is possible to transfer into sell side trading after few years at BlackRock? (e.g. analyst / associate within top macro PMG team -> analyst / associate rates / FX / govies trader at BB IB)

My medium term career goal is to work in a hedge fund as a global macro trader / PM. Do you think you learn more for this job in a bank as a trader, or do you consider BLK PMG as an equivalent starting point?

Thanks a lot for the help!

Robert.

 

Prestige, exit ops and quality of people are all incredible, if not higher than most BB S&T programs. Prestige probably higher in HY and Lev Loans than in IG. Also depends on your role/group. You could be in a portfolio mgmt, trading, research, etc. group, so your responsibilities and experience would vary amongst those positions.

Yes you could probably transfer to BB S&T if that is what you want, but many people stay in PMG - extremely high retention rates, as many people can make portfolio manager there and they treat their people extremely well.

Given your goal, I would probably take PMG over most BB S&T programs.

Also, good god stop using your name to sign off posts - that's absolutely retarded

“Success means having the courage, the determination, and the will to become the person you believe you were meant to be”
 
Best Response

He said he wants to be a macro PM so why are you telling him about IG/HY credit? Not really relevant to his situation. If he went to BLK he would want to be in a rates/fx/em group.

Read brotherbear's post here, it is absolute gold: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/best-entry-level-job-for-running-future-…

This part is relevant to you:

brotherbear:
There are ups and downs to all of the paths. There are definitely more entry-level trader and research positions than there are entry-level portfolio management positions. If you're taken onto the buy-side immediately, you're going to be doing more menial work than your peers on the sell-side. You will not be running a portfolio or making any decisions within JPMAM, PIMCO, GSAM, or BlackRock for several years. You're going to start out doing portfolio attributions, portfolio construction, and (maybe) some cash management. On the other hand, you don't have to leave your team or find a new job to eventually run money yourself. It's a slower (but safer) path. ... That's why I suggest the following: start in S&T as a trader. Try to rotate onto a couple of different desks in your first two years. Learn the business as fast as you can. And then, transition to research. Specifically, aim to become a 'desk strategist,' whose responsibility is to create fundamental or technical trading ideas for the desk on which they sit. Be a good strategist, and circulate your research amongst traders on several different desks. Make your salesmen aware of your ideas. Have them promote your thoughts to their clients. Have them introduce you to their clients, and you might find yourself on the buy-side sooner than you think.

That would be the ideal background for a macro PM.

I'm not trying to go out of my way to shit on BLK. Full disclosure, I got an offer there for PMG and given that we have similar goals (macro HEDGE fund), it was a no-brainer to go BB trading. I was distinctly unimpressed by the BLK candidates from my school at my superday as well as the ones whom I didn't meet that ended up there (PMG, btw). At least for my school, the talent pool that was interviewing for BB S&T blew the BLK pool out of the water. The people that went to BLK PMG generally could not get BB S&T offers (they tried - I saw them interviewing at first rounds and never made it to BB superdays).

Of course this is just one person's experience; your mileage may vary.

 

His post is titled Blackrock Fixed Income PMG. That is why I mentioned Blackrock HY/Lev Loans in relation to IG.

I have a good friend who had offers at both PMG FI and a BB S&T - he took Blackrock and is doing extremely well there.

Honestly, you're probably on the right track either way.

“Success means having the courage, the determination, and the will to become the person you believe you were meant to be”
 

Upon reading your post again, it sounds like you already think BB trading --> macro fund is the way to go, and are only thinking about BLK as a fall-back. Why else would you ask about transferring from BLK --> BB trading?

Anecdotally, I haven't seen anyone lateral into BB trading from BLK PMG. BB's don't even hire much at the associate level anymore, and that usually necessitates going back to school (MBA or MFin or MFE). But as I always say, it's just one person's observation. Just because I haven't seen it done doesn't mean it hasn't been or can't be done.

 

I'll do my best to answer. Unfortunately, I probably don't have the right answer, but hopefully it'll at least guide you to the right mindset. The short answer is that the skills you learn in PM will not be transferable to PE/HF opportunities, but it is doable if you're willing to take the time.

If you start from BlackRock PM, you will have to have something in between your first role and a top HF or PE fund, like a banking position or business school. In PM, you are learning the skills to put together existing products that achieve a certain goal that can be marketed by the client-facing team. You'll have exposure to many strategies as you structure a portfolio for clients, but you won't need to understand necessarily every asset involved in it.

Working at a top PE fund (and various HF strategies), you will have to be able to understand a specific investment/company; its market, its operational and financial statements, and various other due diligence pointers (like management background checks, you'll never know what you find. I once worked on a deal where one of the directors shot at buffalo on his property... another story for another day). And, because it's a top PE fund, chances are the team will be large enough that, as the most junior person on the team, you will be relegated to creating the excel sheets (which can be tens of tabs because of calculations for each line item on the statements) as well as conducting the gritty due diligence (calling consultants, customers, suppliers, etc, etc.). Oh, and you'll have to be an excel wizard to survive.

There are some HFs that will require similar skills to survive, or they're looking for a specific skillset for their strategy (i.e. derivatives on commodities). But I'm less familiar with the HF world, so I could be totally wrong.

Again, it's certainly doable. The best way to do it will likely to first have banking experience before trying to make that jump to the buyside. And I know this is annoying to hear, but know why you're doing it. People in wealth management can do very well especially if they have a big enough book (though with the trend moving towards online wealth management programs, the dynamic might change). This is the good thing about finance though; it's easier to change jobs.

--Death, lighter than a feather; duty, heavier than a mountain
 

I have to disagree. In fact, I personally know PM's that have left BlackRock for HF's. Some whom were career PM's at BR.

But I do agree that the path will be much different. Normally starting out in the HF world, you begin as a research analyst, trader, etc. . As a Jr. PM you will acquire a little of all those skills; however, you wont necessarily be great at any one of them. You wont be better than the macro guy who has been trading rates/IG/commodities for 5+ years. You won't be better than the banker or analyst at modeling or analyzing investments.

But what you will have is (hopefully) a track record. You will be able to point toward your returns and make a case for a HF PM role. The issue with this path is that there are much fewer Associate PM or Jr. PM roles floating around the HF space.

"Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies."
 

Thanks a lot guys, you have been really helpful.

The more I read the more I realise why IBD at analyst level is so hyped, because it is probably the only job that literally keeps all the doors open to the all of the high finance jobs.

However, I got one more question:

How is recruitment then at the top Business schools in the US for people with no prior HF experience, is it like PE where people with no prior PE experience hardly have a shot at the top funds ?

 

Usually you don't want to exit from BR. I talked with a PM there and he told me most of people become PM/quant PM/research in PMG depending on your experience/team. And as he told, where else do you want to go after BR? You are on the top there...

Di you get an FT offer for PMG in new york?

 

Hi DeltaNeutre:

it's not with the new york office, but it's in a big city. thank you for the response! i was just wondering if b-school is something that people do in PMG.

thanks!

 

Yes this is also a common possibility. You can do a b-school and actually you can target the best ones with BlackRock on your resume.

If you can say, did you get your offer for Europe or the US? Or you can tell me in private message, I'm interested to know where BlackRock is offering FT positions.

 

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