Booz vs Booz A.H. vs Roland Berger vs Oliver Wyman etc. - Your views
Hi all!
I am about to apply in consulting, and of course i will start from MBB. Then I would like to know if any of you has some information on other respectable firms, apart from the big four, in Europe.
As far as I know - and as far as i can read on this board - things are probably different in US and here in EU: here working in MBB makes a huge difference against working at Deloitte, Accenture, EY etc.: the latter mainly do outsourcing jobs, seldom interesting, even more rarely interacting with the top mgmt. I have friends in all of them and they reported me awful stories.
That's why I excluded the big four from my target. Now, I was wondering if any of you has some information about companies like Booz, Booz Allen, Mercer, AT Kearney, Oliver Wyman, Roland Berger.
I asked specifically in EU since what I read here leads me to think that things are definitely different in the two continents, given that many of you rate Deloitte and Accenture as quite good places to work in.
Moreover, in my search, I cam across in consultingmag.com rankings: how is it possible that they are so diferent from Vult's ones? How should i get some more info befor applying?
Thanks everybody for any information you can provide
Roland Berger seems to dominate western Europe. If you speak French, the following link would be helpful:
http://consultor.fr/devenir-consultant/actualite-du-conseil/155-les-cab…
Here' the German perspective:
Tier 1: MBB, no difference to the US. But definitely not untouchable. The market is pretty competitive and in many topics they get their asses kicked.
Upper-Tier 2: Roland Berger and OW. Berger for sure, good old fashioned (u gotta have to like the culture, I think they're the company with the highest amount of arrogant fucks) German company. Strong footprint in Western Europe. Really strong in China, too (automotive, and they're sort of the #1 for all the German manufacturers). Anyways, they play no role anywhere else. OW is pushing like hell since 3-4 years. Spending a shitload of €'s on recruiting. Legit player in the market, but not that agressively growing anymore. Many buyside mandates!
Mid-Tier 2: Arthur D. Little, A.T. Kearney, Booz. AD is doing a good job over here. ATK and Booz are legit, too, but not comparable to MBB, Berger, OW in terms of reputation etc. Nobody outside of consulting even knows that they exist.
Other US companies like Monitor etc. have actually no footprint here. LEK is strong in the UK. Simon Kucher is pretty strong when it comes to pricing topics. For Restructuring/Risk Management etc. there are many boutiques. Also some industry specific player that are not that bad.
You're right with not considering Big4, Accenture etc. - they have a great rep in the US, but not over here. It's more of a prejudice than reality. Infact, Accenture and Deloitte are doing good work here, but get no honour for that ;)
Also consider that you should be able to speak the local language fluently. Besides the Scandinavian countries, or the Netherlands, there's no way to start as an Analyst without speaking the local language.
Very accurate, from what I've discussed with European consultants.
I'd have to disagree with this, so here's another German perspective: MBB in Germany is different from the US: McKinsey, Berger, BCG.
1) Bain isn't even among the Top 10 in Germany.
2) Berger is #2 and outclasses both McK and BCG in revenue/capita.
3) Worldwide, a strong incentive to join MBB as an UG is the prospect of an elite MBA a few years down the road. However, many consultants in Germany chose a local PhD over an anglo-saxon MBA, so this argument (which would be a big plus i.e. for Bain in the recruiting process) is weaker in Germany when compared to other countries.
other than that I generally agree.
@consultingwiz: I do not speak french but what I got is that those charts represent how much the companies are employed by the Counsil Office in Paris, right? Do u think it can be extended to their "power" in all sectors across eu?
@don: thank you for the precious and detailed info. I follow up with another question then: since I do not speak french nor german, I'd better to start applying -after mbb - to OW, Booz, Arthur d little and at kearney, that are all english-speaking companies right?
Moreover: how would you proceed considering this: - if you apply first to mbb, you incur the risk of interviewing there as your first or second consulting interview and you may screw up due to lack of experience.
-Conversely if you apply first to your second choices, you may arrive more "prepared" to mbb but there is the risk u receive an offer from one of them before interviewing with your first choices...
Consider that I am already working, so the option "go and interview with accenture just to train" is not viable...or at least not preferable...
Thank you again guys for the precious insights
OW is gaining a lot of ground in Europe, and is extremely well regarded in the UK. LEK is massive in the UK, but don't think they're too prominent otherwise. DonMunich got the main stuff though - that is an excellent summary.
to complete DonMunich's analysis, here are some stats on revenue and number of employees in germany of the top management consulting firms:
http://www.luenendonk.de/download/press/LUE_MB_2009_f200509.pdf
since you asked about the relevance of rankings such as vault and consultingmag, i think that hard facts like these are very useful to put metrics like vault's "prestige score" into perspective...
as you can see, bain is still relatively small in germany, but in terms of general perception in the market and among recent graduates definitely on par with mck, roland berger and bcg. roland berger is very profitable in terms of revenue/# of employees, which they have used in the recent past to expand aggressively in eastern europe, russia, china and japan. as DonMunich has pointed out, though, they don't play an important role yet in markets like india, australia, canada or even scandinavia where they just started to open offices. besides having a reputation for being "arrogant fucks", as DonMunich said, roland berger also has a reputation for having the most brutal working hours...
also note the presence of local firms such as steria mummert, which you will find in all european markets.
but again: if you don't speak german/french, no use to apply in germany/france at any of these companies! this doesn't mean you can't apply for a company like simon kucher or roland berger IN THE UK of course. the company's origin matters less than the country you want to work in: munich-based consultants at bcg will have to speak german, london-based consultants at roland berger will have to speak english, paris-based consultants at bain will have to speak french.
if you're going for europe, you shouldn't forget oc&c! here's another ranking, which is different from vault's north america, europe and asia rankings in that it is supposed to represent the global perspective:
http://firmsconsulting.com/ranking-mckinsey-bain-bcg-deloitte-roland-be…
i don't know what to think of their methodology, but the end result reflects pretty accurately my general perception:
Thanks a lot guys, your help will be precious!
[quote=mav]European rating agency. Roland Berger Ratings http://rolandbergerratings.com[/quote]
European rating agency. Roland Berger Ratings
European rating agency. Roland Berger Ratings
http://rolandbergerratings.com
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