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12/31/15

Mod Note (Andy): #TBT Throwback Thursday - this was originally posted on 1/14/13. To see all of our top content from the past, click here.

I have seen a ton threads like "Chance Me", "Can I get a job at GS with these credentials", and a ton of retarded stuff in the main SA thread.

Listen, getting an interview for investment banking is not like getting accepted into college.

Some people say college is a crap shoot but really, it is more of a sure thing than most people think, unless we're talking Harvard. Anyway, if you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, took a ton of APs and were the president of multiple clubs, you will likely get into a few IVY's or other top schools.

Banking is nothing like that. It doesn't matter if you have a 4.0 in Economics at Wharton, you may not even have a good chance to get an interview at Goldman Sachs. No one has a GOOD chance to get an interview at a top bank. In fact, you could possible have ZERO chance if you don't have the right attitude, resume writing skills, and networking skills.

You could have a 3.7+ GPA and a solid internship and still come away with no offers, and even worse, no interviews. Stop treating this like you're in high school and what you have accomplished academically matters. Finance is about relationships and people skills.

Also, stop the Bulge Bracket BULL SHIT. There are boutiques with better deal flow, exit opportunities and compensation while also providing a better work-life balance. Bulge Brackets are not like Ivy league schools where they are better than almost every other school.

Lazard is better than most of the BBs.
Evercore is better than some of them.
Blackstone, Greenhill, Qatalyst, Moelis. HLHZ, Centerview are all arguably better than most bulge brackets.

UBS, BAML, and Citi are not what they used to be. Many people who know what they are talking about would gladly take Qatalyst over almost any bank sans maybe Blackstone or GS - but even still, it wouldn't be crazy to take Qatalyst.

Then you have firms like Guggenheim, Cowen, Raymond James, Stifel and a ton of other firms which are just as good.

Anyway, what I'm saying is...most of you won't make it if you don't change your attitude and the way you are approaching recruiting. Nothing is certain and NO ONE CAN CHANCE YOU for a job. You could be a dipshit who is good in class, yet you are bad at holding a conversation and therefore, you will never ever get a job in IBD.

So network, study your technicals and practice your story. That's what matters.

Comments (118)

1/14/13

Oh, and shut the fuck up about exit ops. If you don't have a job, WHO THE FUCK CARES. Get a job first and then worry about that shit. I know, first hand, that it doesn't matter what group you're in or bank you work at, you can still get into PE or a HF. And this doesn't matter because most of you who wank it to PE don't even know what it is or how a deal works etc. How do you even know you want to do it?

Right, it's because you have no motivation besides what you heard your other friends jerk off to.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

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1/14/13

End of rant.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

1/14/13

+1

I hate victims who respect their executioners

1/14/13

AfuckingMEN. I'd be surprised if over 33% of the people on WSO could meaningfully explain what both a PE firm and a HF are.

Post of the year so far.

1/14/13

Will Hunting:

Also, stop it with the fucking Bulge Bracket BULL SHIT. There are boutiques with better deal flow, exit opportunities, compensation while also providing a better work-life balance. Bulge Brackets are not like Ivy league schools where they are better than almost every other school..

yea, but then who's going to wipe my bottom for me without the BB support staff? and girls in clubs dont know who Lazard are....

Will Hunting:

Network, study technicals, and practice your story. That's what matters.

sounds a lot like hard work....

seriously though, can we add all this fashion advice to this rant too? who the fuck can't buy themselves a navy blue suit without asking a forum?! seriously, sort it out kids.

"After you work on Wall Street it's a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side." - David Tepper

1/14/13

And to whoever threw 2 monkey shits at me, GO FUCK YOURSELF, I hope you never get a job.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

1/14/13

I like this post. very blunt but true

1/14/13

This commentary, while aggressively written is accurate.

You can have a polished resume great experience and somehow get goose egged at internship selection, full time selection, etc.

The best way to get a job, any job, not just Wall Street is to know someone there who will vouch for you. Some people hate on fraternities, hate on "cliques", however if it's the right clique to be in... Guess what you're ahead of the game.

Unlike your college application which is almost entirely innocuous and not personal (save for athletes and other similar prefered entrance) the job market has massive bias. There is no doubt about it, if a Vice President or director hands me a resume and he is from "non-target" and has similar experience as "target" with no direct hand off. Will choose the direct reference 100% of the time.

"A man is as valuable as his options" as soon as you have one strong option, doors open.

WALLSTREETPLAYBOYS.COM

TWITTER @WALLSTPLAYBOYS

Advice from Real Wall Street professionals.

1/14/13

This needs to be on the front page permanently

Talent is hitting a target no one can hit.
Genius is hitting a target no one can see.

1/14/13

+1 WH

How do you like them apples!!

1/14/13

a little exaggerated. grades and school still matter...a lot

In reply to whartonbetch
1/14/13

whartonbetch:
a little exaggerated. grades and school still matter...a lot

I can tell from your post history that you are an asshole so of course you would disagree with my post that everyone else has agreed with so far. Your stupid ass GS Accelerated thread is one of the most putrid pieces of garbage I have ever seen and you should feel bad.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

1/14/13
In reply to whatwhatwhat
1/14/13

whatwhatwhat:
why are you so angry bro

Not angry. I just say the stuff that everyone wants to say.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

The WSO Advantage - Investment Banking

Financial Modeling Training

IB Templates, M&A, LBO, Valuation +

IB Interview Prep Pack

30,000+ sold & REAL questions.

Resume Help from Actual IB Pros

Land More IB Interviews.

Find Your Perfect IB Mentor

Realistic IB Mock Interviews.

1/14/13

Can we initiate a competence test for people who wish to make an account?

If they fail the test, make them pour through the FAQs, and don't allow them to post in threads until they pass a certain threshold.

It would be an attempt to shed some of the superfluous threads, and highlight the good ones. Also, it would probably reduce spam by 99%.

Just a thought here.

1/14/13

While we are on the topic.

What are the chances of me getting a job at GS with this suit?
http://store.zegna.com/item/store/ermenegildozegna...

Also what type of exit opps are possible with this suit?

In reply to BTbanker
1/14/13

BTbanker:
Can we initiate a competence test for people who wish to make an account?

If they fail the test, make them pour through the FAQs, and don't allow them to post in threads until they pass a certain threshold.

It would be an attempt to shed some of the superfluous threads, and highlight the good ones. Also, it would probably reduce spam by 99%.

Just a thought here.

I'm sure you would be one of the failures. And judging from your post history, you seem to encourage the 'superfluous' threads so reign in your condemnation.

1/14/13

There's nothing wrong with asking someone in the industry, perhaps on this site, to provide some insight into their potential match to a job/firm. I mean, thats what this website is about. If people have issues with it, there is an option to not open that thread and post. Some people genuinely would want to help.

In reply to TeddyTheBear
1/14/13

TeddyTheBear:
While we are on the topic.

What are the chances of me getting a job at GS with this suit?
http://store.zegna.com/item/store/ermenegildozegna...

Also what type of exit opps are possible with this suit?

Oh, the hilarity.

In reply to ZenMaster
1/14/13

ZenMaster:
BTbanker:
Can we initiate a competence test for people who wish to make an account?

If they fail the test, make them pour through the FAQs, and don't allow them to post in threads until they pass a certain threshold.

It would be an attempt to shed some of the superfluous threads, and highlight the good ones. Also, it would probably reduce spam by 99%.

Just a thought here.

I'm sure you would be one of the failures. And judging from your post history, you seem to encourage the 'superfluous' threads so reign in your condemnation.


Some are funny, and I can't resist, but there's a lot of bullshit too.
1/14/13

Will Hunting:

Listen, getting an interview for investment banking is not like getting accepted into college.

Some people say college is a crap shoot but really, it is more of a sure thing than most people think - unless we're talking Harvard. Anyway, if you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, took a ton of AP's and were the president of multiple clubs, you will likely get into a few IVY's or other top schools.

If you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, take a ton of finance related courses and are the president of multiple clubs at a target, you will likely get interviews at a few BB's or other top banks...

It sounds like getting an interview for investment banking is EXACTLY like getting accepted into college.

In reply to Determined
1/14/13

yes.

Determined:
This needs to be on the front page permanently

"...the art of good business, is being a good middle man, putting people togeather. It's all about honor and respect."

In reply to CuriousCharacter
1/14/13

evilbyaccident:
Will Hunting:

Listen, getting an interview for investment banking is not like getting accepted into college.

Some people say college is a crap shoot but really, it is more of a sure thing than most people think - unless we're talking Harvard. Anyway, if you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, took a ton of AP's and were the president of multiple clubs, you will likely get into a few IVY's or other top schools.

If you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, take a ton of finance related courses and are the president of multiple clubs at a target, you will likely get interviews at a few BB's or other top banks...

It sounds like getting an interview for investment banking is EXACTLY like getting accepted into college.

SAT scores are mostly irrelevant for IBD. A high GPA in high school is different from a high GPA in college due to major differences and school. Also, a high gpa does not guarantee you anything. I had plenty of friends with 3.8+ and internships from my target who were not able to land anything in banking. And clubs are a whole other story.

Being the president of the investment club means didly squat. At most schools it's a joke of a club so it should hold no weight. In fact, if the person screening your resume loves bowling, he will choose the kid with a 3.7 and on the bowling team over your 3.8 and investment club president credentials.

Like I said, it is not conventional. If you think it is, go ahead, I'll be waiting here when you end up with nothing.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

1/14/13

I guess I picked a bad day to join WSO :'(
(HS student)

1/14/13

I agree that SAT's shouldn't matter as well as GPA and all of this extra academic bullshit. Its sad that academia has fused into finance but whatever. If you got balls and have taken the initiative to network your way in, you should be given a shot. However, this is not the case. You can get someone who can forward your resume to HR but HR will still be HR and not even consider you because you don't have a top SAT score, 4.0 gpa, etc. It is what it is. Its really about busting your ass and getting lucky.

To fade me its gonna take more than guts, you need the eye of the tiger, heart of a lion and King Kong's nuts

1/14/13
1/14/13

Getting an interview is not like getting into an Ivy because of how effective networking is. You can't network with admissions (well, generally).

In reply to BTbanker
1/14/13

BTbanker:
Can we initiate a competence test for people who wish to make an account?

If they fail the test, make them pour through the FAQs, and don't allow them to post in threads until they pass a certain threshold.

It would be an attempt to shed some of the superfluous threads, and highlight the good ones. Also, it would probably reduce spam by 99%.

Just a thought here.

This.

1/14/13

Did you have a hard day at work? I think you need to chill bro..

1/14/13

Great post. I admire the OP so much that I will pay for his anger management classes.
(Seriously though, all heed the advice)

In reply to JeremyS
1/14/13

JeremyS:
I guess I picked a bad day to join WSO :'(
(HS student)

Welcome. OP speaks the truth. Learn from this thread.

1/14/13

Agree very much with boutiques statement. Maybe I'm just saying this because I will (most likely) never work for a BB and boutiques are looking slim for me at the moment, however the deal flow (or perceived) and working closer with sr mgmt is more appealing to me.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to Newspeak
1/14/13

Newspeak:
.

I did read your entire post. I did not attack BTBanker so I'm not sure where you came up with that. As for whartonbetch, she deserves it. I've seen a number of her threads and the wreak of stupidity and not knowing anything about anything.

As for your post, it is way to long to answer everything. I will say that you are incredibly wrong about the wharton shit. No, if you have a 4.0 you will probably not have a good chance at getting an interview at Goldman. I don't know what your experiences are but I'm not talking from my ass. I got to a top target for wall street and like I previously said, know plenty of people who have 4.0 and did not get ANYTHING. Not even an INTERVIEW at all. It's harder than you think.

As for your centerview remark, that can go either way. They have good placement and if you want to get to a megafund or a HF, people will know Centerview and it will help you.

As for your post history, I use it to see who I am debating with. If I can call bull shit on things, I will. And you know what, it is perfectly valid. From yours I can see that you have an obsession with megafunds. Like I said, I don't know what you do or who you are but I do know that anyone who yanks it to megafunds will probably not ever get to one.

The people that end up there can figure stuff out on their own and don't need a message board. They would also realize that the arguments I posed are accurate and I am saying all of this to educate people and make them stop looking like fucking assholes to their peers and interviewers.

I can recall numerous interviews where I've shot the shit with the interviewer on how delusional some kids are and how ridiculous most are.

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

1/14/13

LOL @ Will Hunting editing all his old threads asking about schools. Wow.

In reply to CuriousCharacter
1/14/13

evilbyaccident:
Will Hunting:

Listen, getting an interview for investment banking is not like getting accepted into college.

Some people say college is a crap shoot but really, it is more of a sure thing than most people think - unless we're talking Harvard. Anyway, if you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, took a ton of AP's and were the president of multiple clubs, you will likely get into a few IVY's or other top schools.

If you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, take a ton of finance related courses and are the president of multiple clubs at a target, you will likely get interviews at a few BB's or other top banks...

It sounds like getting an interview for investment banking is EXACTLY like getting accepted into college.

+1
Sometimes I think people on this board live in an alternate universe.

In reply to JeremyS
1/14/13

JeremyS:
I guess I picked a bad day to join WSO :'(
(HS student)

Nah man, it's always a good day to join WSO!

In reply to Spin Control
1/14/13

Dying's For Fools:
JeremyS:
I guess I picked a bad day to join WSO :'(
(HS student)

Welcome. OP speaks the truth. Learn from this thread.

Thanks. Although I think the OP is a little too PO'd, I agree with most of it. I'm just a HS senior but I've seen a lot of stupid posts such as mentioned on websites like CollegeConfidential, but I generally don't consider myself to be so ignorant.

In reply to asiamoney
1/14/13

asiamoney:
JeremyS:
I guess I picked a bad day to join WSO :'(
(HS student)

Nah man, it's always a good day to join WSO!

Thanks for the welcome

In reply to Will Hunting
1/14/13

Will Hunting:
whartonbetch:
a little exaggerated. grades and school still matter...a lot

I can tell from your post history that you are an asshole so of course you would disagree with my post that everyone else has agreed with so far. Your stupid ass GS Accelerated thread is one of the most putrid pieces of garbage I have ever seen and you should feel bad.

+1 good to see this; a lot of gay shit being posted lately from highschoolers and douchey undergrads

In reply to PuppyBackedSecurities
1/14/13

PuppyBackedSecurities:
evilbyaccident:
Will Hunting:

Listen, getting an interview for investment banking is not like getting accepted into college.

Some people say college is a crap shoot but really, it is more of a sure thing than most people think - unless we're talking Harvard. Anyway, if you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, took a ton of AP's and were the president of multiple clubs, you will likely get into a few IVY's or other top schools.

If you have top SAT scores, a high GPA, take a ton of finance related courses and are the president of multiple clubs at a target, you will likely get interviews at a few BB's or other top banks...

It sounds like getting an interview for investment banking is EXACTLY like getting accepted into college.

+1
Sometimes I think people on this board live in an alternate universe.

Truth

---------------------------
BossMode

1/14/13

While I don't disagree with this post, I will say that in a contracting industry you need the best of all fronts: EQ, IQ, networking, undergrad / grad, GPA, resume, suit / tie etc. Feel free to disagree, just an observation from my classmates who are graduating, job searching, etc. In a pile of 200 resumes, how will you distinguish yourself from a H/S/W/P/Y etc 4.0 grad? Need to find ways to de-risk yourself in your employers' eyes. Do that and you are golden.

Regards.

1/14/13

The fact that the OP sounds like a whiny bitch detracts a bit from the fact that the content and advice is generally spot on although I would never have turned down a top 5 BB for any boutique.

In reply to junkbondswap
1/14/13

junkbondswap:
The fact that the OP sounds like a whiny bitch detracts a bit from the fact that the content and advice is generally spot on although I would never have turned down a top 5 BB for any boutique.

haha I don't think I was whining, or at least, that wasn't my intention. And I think you're referring to my point on Qatalyst?

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

1/14/13

Spot on. It's insane how time flies. I'd completely forgotten until now that I first came across "ibankingoasis" while perusing collegeconfidential.

"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

In reply to whatwhatwhat
1/14/13

whatwhatwhat:
LOL @ Will Hunting editing all his old threads asking about schools. Wow.

Are people not allowed to learn from experience. Maybe the OP used to be the type he is describing in this thread, and has since learned from his experience.

Idiot!

In reply to moneymogul
1/14/13

moneymogul:
Spot on. It's insane how time flies. I'd completely forgotten until now that I first came across "ibankingoasis" while perusing collegeconfidential.

Do you remember that obnoxious mom who used to boast about her kids in Dartmouth and Brown, and tell poorer kids how they'd never get into any elite school. She used to spew BS about IB careers as well, and someone mentioned WSO, and that is how I discovered this great site.

Trying to remember what her ID was. Happymomof4 or something.

1/14/13

-1 didn't include anything on WSO search function
-1 lol Lazard, depends on how much "most" is...
-0.5 borderline tool language in a few parts

otherwise good. 7.5/10 ;))

1/14/13

I agree with the main sentiment of the thread, but shit like school, GPA, internships, etc. most definitely matter when it comes to getting the interview. Of course no one can tell you with 100% confidence whether or not you'll get an interview, but it's possible to give a general idea what to expect, especially if the candidate is shitty. Obviously networking can make up for anything.

Chill the fuck out.

Also as a side note, 4.0 HS GPA + top SAT scores + president of multiple clubs will get you into most semi-targets, but nowadays it's def not enough to guarantee admission to any Target schools.

1/14/13

Will Hunting:
No one has a GOOD chance to get an interview at a top bank. In fact, you could possible have ZERO chance if you don't have the right attitude, resume writing skills, and networking skills.

Yeah, Alex and Jonathan Blankfeins would have no chance without their resume writing skills...

1/14/13

You just dropped the "people's elbow" on them kids dude.

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