Breaking into Equity Research - How difficult is it to break into ER fresh out of school?
How difficult is it to break into Equity Research fresh out of school?
I attend a target school (a top 15 LAC) and have all the requisite stuff on my resume - 3.7+ GPA, econ major, significant accounting/finance coursework, FIG analyst for the school's endowment club, two strong internships.
Based on the info provided, is this good enough to get into equity research? - What about for KBW, as they only do FIG and that's my main area of interest and experience?
TIA
Equity Research is a bit quirky to break into right out of undergrad. It's completely dependent on the number of available slots and a little bit of luck, especially at a place like KBW. You have all the credentials to break itno the field - it's just whether or not you have the contacts to help you out. Only suggestion is to network your way into one of these places. Also check out Merideth Whitney's company as well - not sure if she's hiring but it's a FIG focused shop.
Thanks.
Like I said, I feel like I have the stuff that I can account for nailed down and the remainder will just require a little luck. I've been fairly interested in either ER or S&T (divergent, I know) for fulltime for quite awhile, so I think I'd be happy in either, even though they are very different.
My second internship is a little less traditional than my first (IB) - it's with the CFO of a commercial bank. My grandad is a former board member and I've known the CEO my entire life, so they've been very generous and given me enormous responsibility. After sitting in on the Q2 earnings call, I looked up the analysts covering the bank. One of them is an MD at KBW and went to my ugrad school and earned an MBA at the same school as my father. The CEO said he'd prep the guy this week and felt confident that I'd get an interview. Fingers crossed.
I can say that in at least a mediocre year, you should be able to land a number of interviews for ER at most investment banks. Depending on how the interview goes, you may or may not be able to get in.
In addition to the standard questions about PV/FV, accounting questions, bond pricing, and some mild differential equations/linear algebra/stats questions in the more quantitative groups, the interviewer will probably want to know why you're not working at your previous internships. He may also call up some friends there and see how you did (Banking is a small world.)
Getting to the interview is half the battle. During the interview, you have to come off as a good fit. In research, that typically means you have to have a mildly nerdy streak (David Einhorn would be overdoing it), and come off as more an intellectual than former-Harvard-football-player-who-is-now-a-banker. And of course, you have to look competent. If all the stars align, you'll get the job. That's why it's important to have at least half-a-dozen interviews ready to go.
Be careful, this could look suspect on a resume- especially if anything else on the resume suggests you come from money (hometown, school, study-abroad experience, etc). Start studying...Although I have done my utmost to present myself in the most favorable light, I'm afraid that I'll have some problems overcoming this. Given the combination of experiences, my undergrad institution, and my last name (when recruiting in GA - my home state), I will be pigeonholed into the privileged, good ol' boy category. While I admit I've had lots of advantages, I'm not without merit. How best to convey this?
Yeah, I understand the point about introversion and the "nerdy" stereotype associated with research. I have an additional major in Classics - which has always been received favorably in interviews - and I think that would play particularly well for research.
As for not working at previous internships, how best to convey that I didn't want to work for a commercial bank headquartered in my small hometown and didn't want to work in the particular dept of the IB (although I am applying in other depts, including research)? I don't want to come off as difficult or picky, just focused.
The only thing I would say is keep your exposure to a minimum, with regards to details about your family/connections or what not. Those make a much better conversation during an interview, a sort of wow/surprising factor, which makes you stick in their mind. I always have wow factors saved, and reveal it accordingly. It's sort of like dating, if you tell the girl everything, most likely she will get bored of you after 3 or 4 dates.
Guys, depending on who your interviewer is, you might really want to avoid saying you come from money. A lot of research guys I know prided themselves on being self-made- getting into Amherst on their own, working their way through school, and getting their job on their merits without a lot of connections or any kind of network. Saying that Daddy is best buds with the CEO of the firm you worked at previously is something that should be probably be avoided in an interview.
Saying "I drove up to Alaska and climbed Mt. McKinley last summer", "I BASE jumped off El Capitan", or "I went surfing in a tropical storm" carries the wow factor. Saying "My Daddy knows these 'important' people" carries more of an eyebrow-raising factor for some folks- moreso than two years ago; the experience at my firm has been that people who get hired because of connections are less likely to survive a few rounds of layoffs.
Daddy's connections are something to bring up AFTER your first good performance review.
W and L is not a target fyi. The only real target LACs are Amherst Williams and maayyybbeeee Swarthmore.
Going back to the previously "geeky/nerdy" stereotype that ER carries, do you guys think that this is pretty consistent across the board- BB/Botique etc? I can see that more in Botiques. BB though I think they are a little more diverse.
Disagree?
I worked at a BB, and my experience/impression was that at least 2/3 of the guys in research were pretty firmly in the "pocket-protector crowd." (I have license to say that since I can be accused of being in that crowd too- hard to avoid that with "quant" and "programmer" being the only two words in your job description.)
My experience with this comes from two years largely being the point man for all quantitative credit development for our firm's research teams. I thought they were a blast to hang out with, but at the end of the day, if you are telling and laughing at jokes about matrices and PVOM, you might be qualified for admission to the Pocket Protector Posse.
There have been a few Rotman Commece (at University of Toronto) graduates who placed into Big 5 / BB equity research roles through on campus recruiting and through alums/connections. With all your credentials, you would have no problem breaking into Equity Research though you would have to be strong at your techinicals.
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How to break into Equity Research (Originally Posted: 04/19/2015)
Hi guys, I am really passionate about a career in Equity Research. Currently I work in risk management department for a top tier investment bank. Also, I am completing the final ACCA paper. Any advice on how to break into Research would be much appreciated? Thanks in advance!
I'd say network with the ER guys at your top tier investment bank and see if they like you and are willing to give you an internal referral. Do the same with other banks but it's good idea to start with your bank since you're already working there. And make sure you have a good story to tell and stock pitches ready. Even better if you've built a model from scratch or written a research sample.
Also interested
Breaking into Equity Research - Looking for advice to get into ER (Originally Posted: 04/01/2011)
Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum, I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes. I'm looking for advice on how I could break into equity research?
bump
No replies... Is it all over for me? I don't see how I'm less capable than a lot of the people who start in this industry. A friend of mine said his dad broke into equity research at a much later age despite being a computer programmer before. I think I'm going to try and interview this guy.
Take that GRE score straight to a more related PhD or MSF program and get into whatever you want, lol.
You have decent credentials, but the one thing lacking is relevant experience. The CFA Level I will help, but ER shops are looking for ideas...that is how you, as an outsider, can add value and break-in.
I've had the opportunity to speak to a number of people in ER (from junior analyst to portfolio manager on both the buy side and sell side). I have two pieces of advice for you:
Build a paper portfolio account. Start documenting your trading (why you bought stock XYZ -- the model you built to buy it, your thesis, etc). You can talk about this (and even show it) to any ER opportunity. It shows you have interest/passion and have ideas that can be used. It's one thing to have the desire to do something...it's a completely different thing to actually proactively do it.
Network. This is really your best bet as a career switcher. Those opportunities that undergrads/grads have aren't gonna be there for you, so you gotta find another way to get in. Build relationships, let people know you are interested and doors will start to open.
The most important thing is to demonstrate that you have passion for Investing. I come across many guys who say they are interested in Investing . I ask them a very simple question "What was the last stock you bought and why?" . Most of the folks just give a simple answer like "I bought stock XYZ because I found it to be attractive" . They dont show any depth in their analysis. First and foremost a serious investor always has a well defined Watch list that encompasses Industries that he / she is familiar with. You need to take time to build such watchlist . It should reflect your Investment theme. For instance my investment theme is "Value Investing" and my watchlist has stocks related to Industries that I understand and where I am confident that there business models' wont change next 10 years. You can take a look at my blog by typing notoutinvestor dot com
Learning the Equity Research skill set to break in (Originally Posted: 12/20/2013)
Hi all,
I have read through a few past posts on breaking into ER, but I wanted to share my thoughts and ask some questions about learning the ER skill set.
My end goal is to be able to write my own research reports to share with people as I network and, hopefully, land a position. Here is what I am thinking:
Do these steps make sense for someone with my background? (i.e. no accounting, finance, or modeling experience) Or, is there something else I should do to make my life easier?
Now, there is a ton of information that I could employ to begin to meet each of these steps, and that is where I am lost.
I have a good handle on 1, and I have been reading some books to get a feel for value investing (which is my major interest).
What are good resources for 2-4? I'm interested in books or self-study materials that are highly practical so I can meet my goal faster. I've already seen what seems to be good resources for 5 and 6, so I'm not too concerned about that at this point.
Any and all suggestions are welcome. Thank you!
Use BIWS - great resource.
Thanks for the suggestion. I've heard that BIWS is better for IB, is it applicable for ER?
Very much so applicable for ER - there is an IBD dedicated section, but apart from that - all is useful. Not to mention that even within ER you need to know how M&A works, esp. when your sector is hot in that regard. BIWS/WSP will easily equip you with at least 90% of everything you need as a starter within the field.
About the CFA (referring to SausageKing's post): if you're still in school (non-MBA), do not bother with the CFA at the current stage - very expensive and insanely time consuming, not to mention definitely not the best use of your time.
As a career changer myself with NO accounting/finance background, the CFA exams were my crash course. I highly recommend them. I also used Wall Street Prep to break into the ER buyside just this month. It was more focused for IB, but the basics serve you well for ER. Both Wall Street Prep and I'm sure BIWS are good for both ER and IB.
How should people keep up to date with current news? I have a financial times subscription and theres so much information I'm not sure what to keep up to date with!
If you're just starting out it's probably a bit overwhelming since you need to Google some of the stuff due to lack of recent past knowledge and technical understanding. Reading just the FT is sufficient enough as a start, so I suggest you read as much as you can of the FT (if you have an hour to spare you should definitely be fine) and once you find something that is of particular interest to you - start focusing on those aspects and looking for blogs/publications online. There's no magic formula to having a great all-round understanding of what's happening around the world.
If you're simply after the 'commercial awareness' aspect for interviewing then just look up some blogs that do summaries. There are also various publicly available mini-reports released by IBs (RBS Chief Economist's little note spring to mind). Your school probably has a society that does these kind of summaries/publications on markets as well. Do note that going in to interviews (assuming you're still in school) you have to be able to think on your feet (i.e. actually understand what you read and be able to formulate opinions on what's happening).
Thanks for your thoughts, TheFamousTrader. I just bought BIWS courses and plan to get started soon. I'm not interested in studying for the CFA as I don't really have the time. I work full-time and because of my schedule, I don't really have a few free hours to study for anything, let alone the CFA.
Breaking Into ER: Good GPA, Poopy Internships (Originally Posted: 08/23/2014)
I’m graduating May of 2015 as a finance major from a non-target/top tier state school. My grades are good enough with a 3.5 cumulative GPA and a 3.6 major GPA, but my only internship is a ER internship at a bogus firm where I learned no real skills. I've done my best to make it look presentable on my resume, but pretty much everyone who works on Wall Street would be able to figure out it’s bogus. Also, my EC’s are essentially non-existent because commuting 4 hours per day and dealing with family/financial problems left me no appetite for anything school spirit related. I’m taking level 1 of the CFA in December, but even if I pass, I’m pretty sure the bulk of recruiting season will be done by then.
So, what should I be aiming for if my main goal is equity research (either buy side or sell side)? I’m thinking my options are:
1) Get into a F500 finance rotation (top tier ones are probably out of my reach), finish the CFA, and try to break into ER as a sector specialist in whatever sector my F500 rotation was in. Plus side of this option is my internship experience might appear real to people not working on Wall Street and I can spin it as Wall Street wasn't right for me and I'm more interested in XYZ company.
2) Work as a credit analyst at a commercial bank, finish up the CFA, and try to break into fixed income research. Then either try to break into ER from there, or realize I like fixed income better.
3) Try to break into boutiques straight out of undergrad. I’m a little pessimistic about this option because I've spent the last year offering to work for free and I still couldn't get an internship for my junior year. I did get 6 interviews, which resulted in me fucking up 4 and coming really close but not good enough at 2. I doubt looking for full-time work will be any easier than offering people free labor.
I’m also aiming for a top tier MBA at some point if I can get in, which would make everything much simpler. Might have to volunteer in Africa or something to fix the EC portion of my resume.
PS: I have also been investing in my personal account since I was 12 and have crushed the S&P 500 the last couple years.
How would you describe your internship (in details), and why do you still insist going into ER after that shitty experience?
Because if my internship went as bad as yours (with the way you described it), I won't really have any appetite left to break into ER.
The way you describe the case, I am inclined to think option #2 is a more suitable option for you.
.
I really do enjoy analyzing stocks, unfortunately the internship had very little to do with that. It was more along the lines of me getting tricked into an SEO internship by a sketchy broker dealer putting "equity research internship" on a job posting.
Why are you giving up so easily? Keep your options open...don't make such a long road map yet if you haven't even graduated yet...sure a Plan B is FINE, but shoot for your goal until you realize Plan B...main point, keep the hustle...
I worked in ER for 5 years and would recommend #3 or #1 as your best strategies. Once you land a job in ER, it is easy to move around to other firms. For example, I worked in ER at a small IB for 2 years out of college, then had no problem getting interviews and ultimately a job in an ER Associate position at a BB.
The other route would be a corporate finance gig then go for an MBA or try to leverage your industry experience into an Associate position in ER. I seen people have success both ways.
I don't think the credit analyst role is going to help you move into ER, especially if you are working in commercial banking. Not impossible, but just not as direct a path as the other options you listed.
CFA is critical, though.
Thanks for the advice guys.
BB ER here. I'd try breaking in from #2 or #1 - if that doesn't work in 2-3 years, then go to business school.
IMO, option 3 is very unlikely to work
breaking into ER with math undergrad (Originally Posted: 09/25/2009)
I currently study math at a top tier german uni. I'm doing a diplom, which is a 4 and 1/2 year degree though I will finish it after 4 years. My minor is economics. I will be able to attend Cambridge university for my final year, and will also be awarded a Cambridge master of mathematics there (assuming I pass all the exams of course). I will also try to pass the CFA lvl 1 during that time. I am running my own portfolio and am quite successful (25% average a year for three years) and I'm also a member of the investment club at university. GPA so far is 4.0. what are my chances of breaking into equity research considering that my undergrad is from a german uni and not very finance related? Anything I can do to improve my chances? thanx in advance.
shit im really scared i blew it by choosing the wrong major...
Why do you want to get into Equity Research? If you have a 4.0 in math, will be awarded a master of mathematics from Cambridge, and have managed to produce a 25% return over the 3 most challenging market years in recent memory, why on Earth do you want to relegate yourself to countless mind-numbing hours in front of a computer screen for no money?
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Because I like investing and my dream is to do it professionally (see guys like david einhorn). However, for that I need experience in the business because nobody is going to give me money to run when all i have to show is a discount broker account i traded from €2000 to €4000. Im not really interested in quant investing I like fundamental much more and im not really sure its feasible to switch from the trading floor to buyside investment management. To be clear my ultimate goal is to run money for a fundamentals driven fund. If there's a better way to that than starting in research feel free to tell me
http://timothysykes.com/
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...
You can make good money in ER. Really, I know. Good candidates for ER need to have strong enough quant skills, excellent analytical skills to absorb and process a ton of data, and good oral and written communication skills. You are over-qualified on the quant side, which doesn't rule you out, but you clearly exceed the bar for that metric. I can't comment on your analytical skills or communication skills. Math majors don't have a reputation for great people skills. I don't know you so don't know what to say on that metric either, but analysts spend a lot of time talking to salespeople, portfolio managers, industry sources, and management teams, and must have good powers of persuasion, oral and written. Here are some ideas on how you can build/demonstrate some of these skills. How to become an Equity Research Associate - http://bit.ly/bMC0N
Assuming you are strong enough in those three areas, then it's a question of fit with the Analyst you'd be supporting. This is critical and remember that you have to feel very comfortable with the Analyst as well. The Analyst will have total influence over how much you learn and what you get to do.
If you're trying to break into ER in the U.S., you will need to network like crazy. Obviously you stand a better chance of getting into ER for a firm like Deutsche Bank in Germany. Having an econ major is completely fine. Don't worry about that at all.
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thanks formerMD, that's very helpful. I don't have an econ major I have a math major with an econ minor. I can't go into research in germany they only hire business admin or econ majors here. USA will be close to impossible i know that, i was looking at london mostly. my communication skills are fair enough, i guess, at least when compared with most of my fellow students. the point is, I want to work on the buyside running money, if I could get into a buyside fund directly that would be good too. Would banks/funds in london even look at my resume? would the cambridge master be enough to erase my "non target" status? I'm confident that I know enough finace to get people at an interview to hire me, especially after the CFA lvl 1. the question is would i get that interview
Breaking into Equity Research - Valuing and modeling different products (Originally Posted: 10/11/2009)
So I have spent the last two and a half years at one of the rating agencies valuing and modeling a variety of structured products and it is time for a change. I have an undergrad and masters in accounting and I am a CPA and have passed level 1 of the CFA. My masters was a majority of finance classes (Financial Statement Analysis, Equity Valuation & Financial Statement Modeling, Securities Analysis, portfolio management, Corporate Financial Policy, Professional Accounting I, II, & III, Modeling & Analysis with Excel, ect) I am located in DC so networking is not that great. What is my best approach to getting into ER?
Atleast clear Level2. I have seen some research positions mentioning atleast Level2 as requirement
Breaking into ER from the UK (Originally Posted: 12/11/2013)
Hello Monkeys, I am a UK business school student, I'm due to graduate i 2014 and hope to break into Equity Research when i do. Was wondering if you guys could offer any advice on how to make the leap over the pond and to make contacts as a foreigner. I have applied online to all the main BB's and been contacting people on linkedin and cold emailing but I am out of ideas.
Would love to hear from any experienced monkeys who have made the move.
Hi MrV4lentine,
In pretty much the same position as you, but luckily the forums are filled with ideas. I found that finding a contact in ER is quite difficult, but I managed to network with someone in Investor Relations at a bank, and she introduced me to some analysts. Hope everything works out for you.
Thanks for the reply,
I've had a bit of luck getting in touch with people, I'm still relatively inexperienced with the networking thing so thanks for the tip and Good Luck to you too.
Breaking into ER after school (Originally Posted: 07/24/2014)
Hello All,
I graduated with a Master's in Finance a couple of years ago from a non-target, and have spent the last two years in an FP&A role at an oil & gas company. I am interested in breaking into equity research, but I am not sure how difficult/possible it would be for me with my background (just hitting my mid-20's). I have a little bit of CFA exam experience, having passed level 1.
Does anyone have any suggestions on whether or not it would be possible to break into equity research, and how to prepare for an early-career switch?
Thanks very much.
It's possible but you would need to target ER roles covering O&G. Start working on some pitches in the space and network.
I'm assuming you mean sell-side. Buy-side would be more difficult. You might get lucky but sell-side can eventually get you to the buy-side.
Breaking into ER, Big Picture (Originally Posted: 02/08/2010)
Hey guys, I am a junior in college with a interest in ER. Given my experiences below, what is the best way for me to get a internship/full time associate position? From what I've been hearing from people, ER sounds tougher than banking, is this true?
I know that my lack of private sector experience is probably a turn off, since most of my classmates took internship positions in finance last year
Relevant experience:
-school's student fund
-Research assistant at the university gained experience at conducting market feasibility analysis
-Maintain a personal portfolio, thinking about trading options...haven't found the time to read that Natenberg book though
Just keep networking as much as possible. You shouldn't have a problem if you are.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm definitely trying to be more aggressive (and more assertive) with networking. I was wondering if its normal to do an ER internship immediately after graduation?
Chartered Accountant breaking into ER (Originally Posted: 07/24/2008)
Long time lurker, first time poster. Excellent forum.
Im just curious, has anyone with CA designation and Big4 Experience successfully broken into ER position with non Financial Institution audit experience and no FAS experience.
Currently at Big4 in Toronto in the manufacturing sector. Any advice on how to leverage current experience to break into ER?
Any advice, feedback, tips or even 'you aint got a chance due to MBA competition' is appreciated.
Thanks
happens all the time.
How to do it? You would most likely go in at the associate level so best route would be via recruitment consultant or direct approach to the banks. Check Financial News jobs section.
It definitely happens as I have a met a few former CPA/Big 4 guys walking around the department this summer. Like John Mack said depending on how senior you are I would approach a recruiting firm to help get you noticed. I don't know if any BB ER departments are hiring laterals right now so I would also focus my attention on independent and smaller shops if you really want to break in ER.
Odds of breaking into ER from a liberal arts background (Originally Posted: 05/03/2011)
After getting my ass handed to me months ago in an interview i've put in some time behind the books studying the material for CFA level 1 and working on my excel/modelling skills.
Unfortunately i still hold an undergraduate degree in poli sci and thats not going to change. It's been a while since i've networked/applyied for ER jobs and I was wondering ,realistically, what are my odds of breaking into an associate role in ER after I pass level 1 and drop some technical knowledge on peeps.
really interested in hearing some opinions and even some feedback from those who have broken in from liberal arts backgrounds. thanks in advance
I interned in ER with a psych degree from a state school. Networking makes literally ANYTHING possible. It sounds like you would do just fine if you got an interview......
I broke into IB with a degree in English from a complete non-target. Networking was essential. But beyond enthusiasm and a general interest in the field is key. It always helped me to paint the picture that I chose my major when I was 18 and had no clue what IB was, non of my family members are in banking. After landing an SA role, I enjoyed it immensely and it was far late to change my major so I had to go with the cards I dealt myself. Just bust your ass and study, once those interviews role around i'm sure you'll be fine.
Breaking into ER - Need advice (Originally Posted: 01/13/2015)
Hi all,
For the last year or so I have wanted to work within ER (in a sector I have a little experience in). I graduated last summer with a First Class science degree (GPA 3.9/4.0) from a semi-target (Russel Group) UK University. I then undertook an internship at a commodity price forecasting consultancy.
For the last couple of months I have been working as an engineer in London, I took this job for the following reasons; - It was all I had offered - I figured it would be better to be based in London in terms of meeting ER people and networking - I am fairly interested in the field of work - The pay is good
However, as I said earlier, my real ambition is to work in ER.
Any advice on how you would go about this career switch and what you think my chances are would be great. I am thinking about doing CFA L1 but am currently working 60 hour weeks alternating weekly between night and day shifts. I think my spare time would be better networking/self teaching some financial modelling?
Have any of you had a similar job change experience? - If so, please share below!
Cheers
BUMP!
Breaking into Equity Research - Kind of personality and qualities needed? (Originally Posted: 10/23/2011)
What kind of personality or qualities are required to break into ER? Aside from CFA Level 1, is there any way for a non-target to position himself in equity research. Unfortunately, my program is known only for accounting and does not have ER alumni. I'm interested in both buy side and sell side.
Someone who is naturally curious and acts a lot of questions in order to understand every single of nuance of a topic would be the kind of person that would be drawn to an equity research role.
You're going to do a lot of reading and you have to be able to come up with a position. You also need to have the acumen to be able to digest a lot of mind numbing details about a company and concisely put that into a well written thesis.
FYI I have no experience in an ER position. Theres a great 2 part interview on mergers and inquisitions about this very topic.
Qualities? You have to be really really good looking...like you were just mercilessly beaten with the sexy stick.
Start networking, doesn't have to be alumni. For example, a friend of mine is really interested in ER as well. He actually attends various industry conferences and meets analysts that way. Not sure how effective that might be for others or how this type of a move is perceived, but he's making it work.
The personality/qualities question is a good one and tough to answer. Agree with AndyinSD. I'd add that although it seems there are a very diverse group of personality types in ER, I would argue the best seem to be crosses between trial attorneys and CEOs. In other words, you'll need to present a very compelling case through a naturally articulate, charismatic communication style, but you also need to have a keen sense of business, and have the ability to independently construct a vision of the future based on information in the present. A great researcher and modeler will rarely be a standout analyst without these qualities.
You will also find some more introverted personalities in ER compared with IB or S&T, but I've rarely seen the introverts as stars - at least not on the sell-side.
Breaking into Equity Research...best options?? (Originally Posted: 04/19/2012)
Hi All,
Long time lurker on this site, first time posting...would love to hear people's opinions on my career prospects
My situation is as follows...
I graduated from a non target uni in the UK with a first in Finance. At the time I had no idea what I wanted to do career wise and naievly took the first job I got, a middle office position in an Asset Management company. After a year there, I developed an interest in portfolio management and decided to do CFA level 1 which I passed.
I then decided to put the "career" to one side and went travelling for a year in Austrlia. I am returning to UK/Ireland this summer and desperately want to break into equity research and portfolio management.
So, I have two options when I get home...
1) Look for any finance related job whilst continuing with CFA exams and trying to network my way on to graduate programmes or entry level research analyst positions...
OR
2) I am also considering a number of Masters in Finance programs, however, realistically I can only afford programs that will cost no more than £10,000 - £14,000. I am only thinking of doing a Masters due to the benefit of networking and recruiting for grad programmes.
So... should I go down the CFA route or Masters? Which route offers me best chance of getting a job in equity research?
I realise the Masters courses I will be targeting do not offer any of the recruitment benefits of the pretigious schools, but I really can't afford those schools and want to limit expense as much as possible.
I also realise that the material taught on most of these Masters is the same (if not, simpler) as the CFA material. So, do these courses offer enough recruitment benefits and job prospects to justify the cost?
I should also mention that whilst I have no "relevant" experience I do have a passion for investment and value investing in particular.
Sorry for the long post but I would love to hear people's opinions on my best option which will give me the best shot at breaking in. Particularly like to hear from anyone currently working in ER in the UK.
Thanks and look forward to hearing the replies...
anyone any opinions/views/advice? :)
There are Masters courses affiliated with the CFA program. If your budget is small look at The University of Stirling in Scotland. The course (MSc Investment Analysis) is only £5,000 and it covers the bulk of the CFA material. I graduated from the 2009/10 class am working in London and preparing for CFA Level II.
This course might not carry a lot of weight with banks but Eninburgh has a large fund management centre and many graduates go on to work at Standard Life, Martin Currie, Aberdeen, etc...
Best of luck.
Cheers,
sent you a PM there, thanks!
Breaking into ER - Looking for advice regarding preparation for breaking into ER (Originally Posted: 03/20/2010)
I'm new to this forum and I'm looking for some advice regarding preparation for breaking into ER.
I'm currently a second year analyst at a Fortune 100 Financial services company, and I'm enrolled in the CFA program, scheduled to take L1 this June. Based on my preparation I am expecting to pass without a problem.
My plan is to start looking/applying for ER positions late 2010/early 2011, and I have a couple questions: (1) is the fact that I went to a state school rather than a target school really going to hurt my chances at most boutiques, (2) what else can I do as a college graduate to continue to improve my viability/chances, and lastly (3), is there any programming aside from VBA that would be considered useful in the ER field?
All answers are much appreciated.
ER... enterprise risk or equity research?
(1) is the fact that I went to a state school rather than a target school really going to hurt my chances at most boutiques Nah, now that you're out of school and working I doubt a lot of shops will hold it over your head, esp boutiques
(2) what else can I do as a college graduate to continue to improve my viability/chances network and try to get relevant experience... what exactly do you do at your F100 fin services company?
Equity research.
(1) Good to hear (2) I am in financial planning and analysis. In short, I create business plans, forecasts, variance analysis, etc..
From what I've read it seem that financial services experience is definitely valued as a plus- is this correct?
just get shot
WTF does that mean?
I'm in the same boat as you. I start as a business analyst at a f100 this June after I graduate and intend on studying for the CFA. I am targeting BB/MM however, and am from a pretty decent state school, semi target for about 5-6 MM
Not sure if passing the CFA would be sufficient or if i'd need to get a MSF (pref not MBA).
Thoughts?
Can anyone lend some insight or answer questions two and three of my original post:
(2) what else can I do as a college graduate to continue to improve my viability/chances, and lastly (3), is there any programming aside from VBA that would be considered useful in the ER field?
All comments are appreciated.
3.) That's a waste of your time. No one would expect you to know VBA, let alone another programming language. Focus your efforts on networking if you want any chance quite honestly. Equity research can be tough to break into because teams are usually lean and they only fill spots when there's an obvious void. Your best bet is to network through your alumni, friends in the industry, and any other people that may have a connection to a bank. Also, find an industry that appeals to you and maybe reach out to boutique banks that provide research in that specific industry.
Other things to do:
Follow a particular stock or two. Read past earnings transcripts and listen into the ones going forward. You could also build a model (IS, BS, CS) and even develop your own thesis on the name. It's almost guaranteed that you'll be asked to pitch a stock in an ER interview so this way you can be prepared.
Work on your writing as well. Trust me, you can always improve it and you'll most likely be asked to give a writing sample.
I hope that helps.
Thanks for the advice.
Do you think it's safe to say that ER is one of the easier fields to break into relative to others listed within these forums (i.e comapred to trading, Asset Management, et al.)?
Getting into Equity Research - 2nd year in a Canadian semi-target (Originally Posted: 08/04/2011)
Hi guys,
I'm going into 2nd year in a Canadian semi-target school (mostly quant finance though).
I have a high gpa and solid experience, but it is not a big recruit here. Most of the jobs are accounting, and big 4 heavily recruits here. So my question is, how relevant is big 4 audit experience in breaking into ER later on in your career. What internship positions should you be looking at if you want to enter ER and possibly hedge fund later on in your career?
Thanks for the help!
Waterloo?
uoft :)
I believe he said quant finance.
very interested in this as well. People recommended to get into transaction/advisory at the big 4. Especially in Toronto, cause it's toronto.
Advisory divisions tend to interact with many banks/institutional investors apparently, which helps with networking etc. CFA may help with the ER transition as well.
Recently I found several finance firms that offer qualifying exp for CAs too, that might be another path if you want to skip the big 4 altogether. Here's one: http://www.veritascorp.com/home/ It's an ER firm, recruited for co-ops at my school, pretty hard to get in...I didn't land an interview :(
Just realized you are in quant finance. If that's the case y would you consider the big 4 (unless you plan to do that masters at UofT for CAs) wouldn't you have much better options than at an accting firm?
Hope I provided something of value. Good Luck!
Getting into Equity Research as a recent graduate? (Originally Posted: 08/29/2014)
Hey guys, I graduated this past May from a non target with a BSM in Finance and a Masters in Accounting. I have equity research experience under my belt and have even published a report. I have been trying to get into the industry all summer but with little to no luck. I have networked and asked several people how they broke in and they all basically said that it was all luck. A few of them said that many firms do not want to hire someone with little experience because then they would have to train them so its just a matter of patience and luck. Anyone have any more insight into the industry? Or maybe another career that would be closely suited to my background? Thanks
You published...one report? Where did you get your "experience" from? Blogging on SeekingAlpha?
No its a program I did for a small fund. I covered Rollins (ROL)
Try to look for off-cycle internships. If any of the firms you have contacts at have a co-op program, those would be your best bet. See if any of them will consider a graduate for a 4-month co-op position (it's not unheard of).
thanks I will check into that
How do I break into Equity Research? (Originally Posted: 11/12/2012)
I am a 30 year old woman with 8 years of experience in Silicon Valley as an engineer in the Semiconductor industry. I recently tok my GMAT and I am thinking of moving into finance - equity research. I have a few questions on how I can break into that field.
Here's a question for you, why do you want ER as opposed to IB?
I worked in ER at a BB this summer. There were many successful analysts who came from industry -side, often after getting an MBA (and in fact, some firms like Sanford Bernstein prefer to hire analysts exclusively from industry), so I think you've actually got an advantage in terms of skillset (as long as you're happy doing Semiconductor research).
Because ER divisions tend to be small, and tend to lean towards hiring (cheaper) undergrads than MBAs, getting in is tricky. If you don't have contacts who could refer you, then MBA might be the best option. Given your non-finance background, B-school could also be pretty helpful in getting a background on finance and accounting. Outside of top ten, if you go to a B-school where BBs do not recruit for ER, you'll likely have to go to networking events for anything else that they do recruit for (for example, IBD or S&T) and ask the recruiter for contacts in ER. Your best bet is to do an internship at a boutique ER shop (they've exploded in number in the past several years); the ER community is small, so a great reference from a boutique can catapult you to an interview with a BB. Also, the age ranges at B-schools tend toward the late 20s, even 30s, so no, it's not too late to get a career change.
CFA is useful once you get into ER, but gives few benefits in terms of networking opportunities and contacts, which is what you really need to break in. For that reason it's not really worth three years and hundreds of hours of your time. Once you get an ER gig, some firms will pay for your CFA exams.
1st year Associate level at my BB was ~120-130K base. Bonuses were bad last year.
Hi Futurectdoc,
Thanks a lot for your response. I have a poor GPA and a strong GMAT. I MAY be able to get into Duke but isn't Duke more for folks who want to do marketing vs finance? I was thinking of a part-time MBA since I live in San Francisco from Berkeley-Haas. The reason I was thinking of a part-time was that it would give me enough time to network and try and get a longer internship than justa summer internship if I went for a full-time MBA.
Also, it will give me time to do the CFA if I have to.
Monika
Hi Futurectdoc,
I would think IB is even harder to break into. Equity research interests me more. How is the pay for an associate in equirt research vs IB?
Thanks.
Hi Jambajooz,
thanks for your response.
Do you also think that a part-time from berkeley-Haas would not help? I was thinking of trying for internships etc while doing a part-time MBA in finance.
Monika
Well, how poor a GPA and how strong a GMAT? If you're above a 3.0 I don't think anyone will really care, the bigger issue is that schools keep skewing younger and younger each year. UCLA Anderson's average age is 28, Stanford lists work experience not age and says 4 years is the median so roughly 26, 27.
I'm not sure IB is tougher to break into, yes it is tough to get into GS, but there are a world of other firms out there plenty of MMs are likely to be receptive.
Hi Futurectdoc,
Once again, thanks for your response.
My profile is below: GMAT - 730 My GPA - 2.9 from a top 10 engineering school in the US.
I did complete a part-time Masters in Engineering from a local university while working full-time. I took 5 years to complete this since I took classes on and off and I had to pay for the classes. Grad GPA - 3.7
Experience - 8 years in the Silicon Valley as an engineer. Age - 30 Female from Asia
Thanks a lot.
In my view the point of an MBA is twofold - networking and prestige. In general, part time MBAs aren't regarded especially highly - or not as highly as a regular MBA, even if it's from a top school like Haas. If you can get into Fuqua, by all means do it; each school has a "reputation" for a certain specialty, but in the end the opportunities are pretty much the same. You can also do a term-time internship while you get your MBA.
Thanks. I will definitely apply there for a full-time MBA then.
A final question, do you have other MBA programs you would recommend given my profile?
cracking into ER (Originally Posted: 12/15/2011)
Would experience in financial services consulting be good experience to get a job in ER
Do you mean private wealth management or consulting (of financial services firms)?
the latter...
NOOB Wanting to break into ER (Originally Posted: 04/10/2013)
NOOB Here wanting to break into equity research and I understand I have a long road ahead of me. Whatever, point is after doing my fair share of research, Networking, and Trips to NY I've realised the importance of DCF Modeling. Filling out The IS, and BS, calculating CAPM and WACC went smooth but now forecasting is the issue. I have absolutely no clue what to do to forecast. Any step by step guides to help me or advice would be greatly appreciated, The 399 or 499 price for the modeling isn't exactly in my price range so any alternate literature or anything you can recommend to me would be great. All I want to do is learn, Thanks! PS: A lot of you reccommended IB written by Rosenbaum. Not sure if it'll give me a step by step on forecasting but I ordered it anyways, if you have any other advice or anything to offer please let me know
WallStreetPrep my friend
You don't need to do all of that.
Sounds like you need to network first, I can load up a bottoms up model in a couple of weeks if you want. That's all you really need to learn to do to be honest.
Part 2 of this series will outline how to break in as well.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/interview-with-wallstreetplayboys-a…
[quote=WallStreetPlayboys]You don't need to do all of that.
Sounds like you need to network first, I can load up a bottoms up model in a couple of weeks if you want. That's all you really need to learn to do to be honest.
Part 2 of this series will outline how to break in as well.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/interview-with-wallstreetplayboys-a…]
!!!!!
@woodywood Wall Street prep is how I got to wher I am now, but when it comes to forecasting they kind of just assume you know how to do it. They don't go into much detail with forecasting.
@wallstreetplayboys Thanks for the reply I'd be more than happy to receive that model from you, you can email it to me or upload it, whichever is more convenient -echarlemagne12@gmail
Want to enter ER straight out of undergrad, what should I say when they ask for my pay range? (Originally Posted: 06/24/2017)
Hi everyone,
The title says it all. I know glassdoor has salary information for different firms, but it doesn't quite differentiate between experience/degree level, i.e. I assume someone entering ER out of a PhD or MBA program gets much higher pay over someone straight out of undergrad. What should one say when a recruiter or interviewer asks you for what you expect as salary+bonus? This is assuming it's a MM in NYC or a comparable city.
Thanks!
i've never heard of anyone asking what you expect out of undergrad. but for MM ER I would say something like 70-80 + 20-40% depending on the shop. going forward just know that it's illegal for employers in a lot of places like NYC to ask for your salary at your previous employers.
"Thanks for the opportunity; I'll take whatever you offer as I'm not very qualified for this job with a bachelors degree and minimal experience. I will have to work my way up and/or acquire more education. "
Also make sure to start interviewing for other firms from Day 1 on the job so you have a few offers in hand to leverage by the time HR gets your direct deposit online.
First Year in ER out of undergrad..day in the life / expectations (Originally Posted: 02/23/2010)
I will be starting as an ER Associate soon. I am out of undergrad with little experience. Can someone help me understand what my first year duties will be? Also, I am looking to be amazing. Seriously, I want to impress. What could a 1st year associate do that you would find impressive? How can I be over the top? Anything would be great. I am sure many will have answers that are not "serious" but I am just looking for some ideas.
BTW a "day in the life" of the first 6-10 months in ER would be awesome.
Does the analyst have more than one associate or is it just you?
I am the only associate for the VP. The MD has 2 associates.
So initially your goal should be to pass all your tests as soon as possible. You need to take Series 7, 63, 86 and 87 before you can get your name on anything. The 86 is really the only one that you should have to put a little time into, the other ones are just rules and regulations. Within 6 months would be a good goal to get those out of the way. Other than that you need to get up to speed on the industry and the companies as soon as possible. A big part of the associate's job is to be able to talk to sales & clients while the senior is traveling, which is often. You'll start by updating models and writing summaries of press releases and conference calls. By the end of year 1 you should be at a point that if your senior is on the road and a press release comes out on one of your companies you should be able to handle it (summarize what happened, update anything in the model as necessary and communicate to sales how the results compared to your expectations). Once you've reached that point, to make yourself stand out you should start trying to source your own ideas and bring them to your senior. The more proactive you can be the better you'll look.
Thank you. They are giving me a few months to complete 7, 86, and 87. No mention of 63 yet. Everything you described sounds awesome and I am looking forward to starting. Are you basically saying I should just focus on the learning curve before I try to stand out? I am going to try to pass the series exams asap as a first priority.
Well its kinda hard to have an opinion about something that you don't fully understand, so yes, focus on learning the macro stories and knowing the companies. And pay attention to details, I made the mistake of trying to do too much too fast when I started out and it resulting in me missing a few things that I wouldn't have if I were paying more attention.
Ya, luckily I have been interning in a E&P consulting company so that has helped my learn the companies and industry.
How to break into ER w/ little experience (Originally Posted: 08/25/2016)
I recently completed my MBA and a non-target school which I rushed into after graduating. From Maine and had little exposure to financial markets and large industries. During grad school I really started to focus on career routes and got interested in Equity Research. At this point, fields such as that are so political and competitive I am well behind the curve. Now that I am in the job market (just moved to Boston) I realize what a waste the MBA was. Luckily, I co-founded the University's investment club and acted as its VP so I got credits and graduated with very little debt. I worked FT in sales at BofA while in school and am now working in an accounting operations role at a Technology Company. I passed CFA level 1 and am looking to make my next move. I am torn between potentially getting a certificate in CS or possibly exploring the option of MS in Statistics to put tangible skills on my resume. In your opinions what would be my best short term option to get into this field within the next 2-5 years?
build a stock portfolio and average 20% and sell yourself using that...explain every trade, using excel spreadsheet why you went in and not.
If you're looking to break into SS research, then I disagree with the above poster. Also of note, there is SS research in Boston, but i don't believe there is much and your choice of sector is probably quite limited as well. I'm not in Boston, so take that with a grain of salt. Shouldn't be hard to do a little digging and get a clearer picture of your options.
Also, I've not found the SS research recruiting/hiring process to be overly political. That being said, it is far less structured and significantly more ad hoc. The absolute best thing you can do for yourself to enhance your job prospects, and your general professional prospects as well, is to network like crazy. You just moved, use that to your advantage by introducing yourself and beginning to build your network in Boston. Send emails, attend events, do everything you can to meet people and establish a relationship.
Secondly, figure out what sectors interest you most and begin learning about them. Read pertinent news, begin to follow the major players in the space and develop thoughts on them, understand the economics of the sector and what drives it. Start building out models on a couple names, make forecasts and construct a thesis. The best way to learn is through practice and repetition.
You've passed L1 and received your MBA, don't waste time on CS or getting another degree. Focus on the CFA if you want to continue to expand general financial knowledge. Having multiple degrees/designations doesn't mean as much as demonstrating sector knowledge and having the appropriate skill set.
Hope this is a good starting point for you and best of luck.
Thanks for the advice. In your opinion, as far as the very short term is concerned, what would be a better career choice for right now--assuming I do not find any opportunities right off the bat: Financial analyst (with the possibility being outside of financial services), or stick to the industry and try and just get into an investment firm at a lower level (perhaps fund accountant) and try to move into ER from within?
Getting into ER without internships and directly relatable work experience (Originally Posted: 02/24/2011)
I'm trying to get into equity research, hopefully with a bank, but I don't have any internships or SAs under my belt. I'm 23, worked full time in college, and graduated in December with a 3.5 cumulative and 4.0 finance GPA from a non target school in Florida.
How tough will it be breaking into the industry without having directly relatable internships/experience? Will having held a job and working full time already help or is it irrelevant?
My experience has been in retail, credit card collections, and branch banking.
sooo fucked.
Should be easy... Not trying to be a smart ass (maybe a little).
How should I quantify the question, you already know apparently how hard it is going to be by even asking...
is there anything remotely close to a target school in Florida? FS honors/ UF honors?
USF, the only thing target about the school is its in the same state as UF. Goldman and Morgan Stanley have both recruited out of here in the past though.
Do I go for something finance related and try in a couple of years with an MBA then?
your best bet is Raymond James in st. petersburg or Wells Fargo research
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