Attire Question - Business Casual?
Quick question I was hoping some monkeys could help me with. I have an interview for an internship program ran by the New York Society Security Analysts. The recommended attire is "Business Casual (suits not required, but please look neat and professional)".
What would people recommend for this. Personally I believe strongly in dress to impress and am comfortable wearing a suit. Would wearing a suit be bad if they are not required or is it better to over dress since I can bet some kids may likely wear a suit?
Thanks for the input
For men, Business Casual means Business Formal less the suit jacket and less the tie.
Do some research on the NYSSA. They are the New York branch organization of the CFA.
I can wear.shorts to work in the summer and hoodies in the winter. True story
Wear nice pants with a nice shirt, but no jacket and no tie (wear a nice cashmere sweater instead). Do not wear a suit, it shows you can follow directions (probably every one else will freak and wear a suit, btw...but this is good because you'll stand out as the candidate that can follow directions - this exact same thing happened to me and I got the offer - obviously, you still have to interview well, etc.)
Dont wear an argyle sweater vest
If its an interview I always wear a suit
^^^ You realize that hurts you if they're asking for b-cazsh, right? I always ask them what THEY'LL be wearing if they don't tell me the dress code explicitly, and just follow their lead.
On sweater-vests, I work in a cold building and am wearing one today. I've even gotten a couple of compliments from a few ladies in sales on it. Just take my advice with a grain of salt as us quants can get away with a few more fashion faux-pas than the general population on the trading floor. Frankly, I really don't care how it looks- better to wear something warm and look like a flashback from the '70s than be cold.
Nothing against sweater vests, just argyle sweater vests =)
If its an event thats business casual I would find it awkward if I showed up in a full suit, however if its an interview I would find it best to wear my best, even though most times the interviewers are not dressed up. Considering it says please look neat and appropriate, I would be much more comfortable wearing a white shirt, blue tie, gray suit rather than risking it if my sweater/shirt/khaki combo may look weird. (I've seen bright yellow sweaters with peppermint green shirts at career fairs myself).
I think they are trying to convey that business casual is okay, in case you don't own a suit, and would not want anyone to go out and buy one just for this occasion.
Then again, I haven't been in the real world like you have so that's just my thought
Wear long sleeves and slacks. Don't dress over the top especially when it's not called for. I think a suit is would be too formal.
Agree - don't wear a suit. This goes hand-in-hand with the idea that one of your main goals in an interview is to show them that you're someone they'd enjoy working with - nobody wants to work with someone who's too up-tight to wear b-cas when instructed to do so.
Thanks for the input guys I really appreciate. I'll skip the jacket and wear dress pants, white dress shirt, and tie.
What constitutes a 'business casual' attire? (Originally Posted: 11/24/2014)
Can you guys give me some examples of what a business casual attire looks like - type of shirt, pants, shoes?
runs the gamut between tanktop & jorts to sportcoat, open collar dress shirt, slacks & oxfords, depends on the business.
in my business, anything without a tie is business casual. at a hedge fund in silicon valley, it's probably golf shirt & jeans. in other techy jobs, polo & jeans is standard.
In general, Business Casual should be the same as professional dress, minus the tie/jacket. The inclusion of more button-down collars, specifically OCBD shirts, would be advisable.
This; however, even with a tie it can be considered business casual. I'll also echo what many have said about it being situationally dependent.
Usually, business casual consists of slacks, a shirt and nice shoes. Business professional then adds in a tie and jacket, I'd say that generally just wear a suit that will take care of business professional. I always tend to believe that you should be overdressed and any suit can become 'business casual' with the removal of the tie and jacket.
You can also do business casual with slacks and a sports coat or sweater. Of course, as mentioned, it depends on the work environment - I once interned at a tech company where business casual meant t-shirts, shorts, and flip flops.
As others have said, it really depends on the business and where it is. In my business in the northeast, business casual means a suit or pressed dress slacks (not chinos), shirt and sportscoat simply without a tie. My brother works in advertising in the northeast and business casual means jeans and a tshirt and basically look as hipster as you can because they're all creative. If he wore a suit it would probably mean someone in the office died and they're going to their funeral. Casual Friday in my business would be more formal than my brother's everyday business casual.
When I first started doing business in Miami a while ago, I was coming from London where everone wore a suit with cufflinks and the whole regalia everyday, but in Miami we started meeting with the C-level guys of an F500 and it was chino style pants and golf shirts, even the CEO. They thought we looked like undertakers in our suits. That same business in the northeast in a major urban area would mean those same guys would be in suits, or the business casual that I mentioned I would wear. In the tech world in the Bay Area, it would lean more towards the Miami dress.
As others have said, it's rarely bad to be overdressed in a suit and tie if this is a question for interview purposes. If you feel really overdressed you can take the tie off quickly.
A nice dickey, also known as a detachable bosom
or
Business casuals consist of formal shirts and trousers. I prefer to wear this type of formal casuals at corporate events.
For some reason, to the majority of America it means a short sleeve dress shirt, pleated front khakis and Bostonian dress shoes. Cell phone belt holster optional.
If you don't want to look like a schmuck, I'd suggest properly fitting flat front dress pants, a fitted dress shirt, nice shoes (oxfords or high quality derbies) and a nice belt. Details like stiff collar stays and not wearing ridiculous socks make a huge difference as well.
Don't hate on crazy socks, breh
EDIT: I'm not the one who MSed you....
Anything that's clothes.
I'm in a business casual environment. I rotate a bunch of Brooks Brothers button downs in with like 4 different colors of slacks (navy, grey, charcoal, and black). Some people wear short sleeved button-downs, I hate those people. Collared shirts are prob ok, but I only wear them with jeans on Fridays.
Business Casual- WTF do you do? (Originally Posted: 09/01/2015)
The right way to dress 'business casual' is always kind of murky. Are jeans appropriate? How formal of a blazer do you need? Shoes? Where the eff do you begin.
To help you tackle the next time your supposed to "keep it casual," we started this guide: http://fir.mx/1fTk82s
Anything you would add?
Lmao who the hell still wears chinos? Typical of American fashion - stuck in the early 2000's
I know a lot of people who still wear chinos (France and UK)...
Anyway, I would say that basically if you take off the tie it becomes smart-casual, the only MUST for smart-casual is to wear a shirt, I would also say leather shoes are a near-must. Blazer not particularly necessary, trousers/jeans/chinos all fine in my opinion.
Jeans - are you serious? You can not add denim and call it business anything. You should have tapered trousers - non flared at the heel and slim fitting, unless you are a walking burger of some kind.
A button down shirt is acceptable for business casual - blazer should be checked or English country wear a la Barbour
If you want to look good, take a look at these two 1: https://gyazo.(REMOVETHIS)com/32a60f59ed3d2ff4885050ced62faac3 , unbutton one or two buttons. wear loafers or some nice leather shoes 2: https://gyazo.(REMOVETHIS)com/b60a0045f924e0af9932f069cedbe333 , You think of the shoes and pants for this one.
Or if you want to be another tasteless male with no sense of style, wear you suit and just take off your tie.
Wearing ties to business casual workplaces (Originally Posted: 06/25/2015)
What are your thoughts on wearing ties to a business casual workplace, the exception being leadership, who always wear ties. Does it make sense to dress up to match MDs, or would you just stick out like a douchebag?
If you came in suit+tie, you can continue to wear suit+tie, with the option to dress down. If you came in casual, don't randomly start wearing a tie.
At my bank (SF) people would think you're crazy if you're a junior wearing a tie
Dress to how the rest of the office dresses. You'll look weird if you wear a suit and tie everyday to a workplace where everyone else wears chinos and polos. If it's a pressed slacks and dress shirt environment you can wear a nice sports coat to the office but I still wouldn't put on a suit because you'll look weird.
And as a senior person who's worked in non-business formal workplaces, the reason I wear a suit and tie is because I have external meetings that necessitate a suit and tie that day. If I'm just going to be in the office or have less formal outside meetings, I'm most likely not wearing a suit and tie (actually I typically wear a suit and no tie and just have them in the office in case I need to go out).
+1
Yeah, no senior is impressed by the junior guy wearing a tie. Additionally, it doesn't score you any points with the other junior guys. It's more important to look good by wearing appropriate fitting, quality, and clean clothes, e.g. no see through button-downs with a full sail on the back with corduroy pants and square toe pilgrim shoes.
To clarify, this is for a friend joining a large bank as a VP, so not junior, not senior either. Middle management if you will.
Think this depends from bank to bank and location, but in my view a VP at a large bank + tie = no problem. I'm in London in IB in a BB and the analysts here are 50/50 wearing ties
He should know how to dress by VP level
If you wear a tie to a place which has a business casual dress code, you are dressed inappropriately, kind of like if you wore swimming trunks to a black tie event.
They say dress for the job you want. I always wear a tie to work. Not many other people in my office do the same, and most of the ones they do are in senior management. I doubt anyone would think less of me for doing so. Even if they I don't really care. I care about my appearance and it shows.
Honest answer: Nobody really gives a shit. We're talking about wearing a tie to a business casual workplace here, not wearing a tuxedo to a high school football game.
I rather be overdressed than underdressed.
I have experienced the embarrassment of the latter. As others pointed out - nobody gives a shit, and if someone is paying a lot of attention to it and giving any (shits?), then he is surely not in the right set of mind.
If you will meet with clients at all, then I would just always wear tie. If you're never really client facing then might as well just ditch it.
I won't do that. Keeping one on my desk for when I'm meeting clients, though.
That being said, I never wear it once (because nobody in my office is doing that). But, Just in case.
Some people would think you're an absolute show off if you're a junior & you wear a tie.
Wearing a blazer/jacket/sportcoat is cool if it's business casual. If it's pressed slacks and shirts, then focus on getting quality and fitted items.
Never EVER wear a tie without a jacket on. You'll look like a used car salesman, period.
Implemented tie Tuesday at my office. Got all the other analysts on board, then the VP. Probably hates us/is mocking us, but whatevs
What passes for "Business Casual" at London BBs? (Originally Posted: 02/16/2016)
Hey guys,
I'm going to be interning at a BB in London (GS/MS/JPM) and I've just read in my information package that the dress code is "business casual", which I find suspicious. My idea of business casual is something along the lines of this: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d8/95/37/d89537407df31325cb3d…
But I have a really hard time imagining a bunch of BB bankers walking around the office in anything less than a full suit and tie, 'business casual' or not. Is it safe for interns to just stay one level of formality above the full time employees or will it come off as being a tryhard?
Also, do front office divisions tend to dress differently? I'd imagine sales & trading would be more laid back than IBD since they don't usually go to meet clients in person.
Thanks.
suit and tie yeah, can loose the tie once on the desk but depends on your team. Put the suit jacket on the chair but have it around at all times
The photo you put is smart casual. Business casual in my opinion is basically a suit minus the tie, that being said I would take a tie and see what everyone else is doing, if no one is wearing one put it in your office draw for when it becomes necessary.
Are tan wool dress slacks ok for business casual? (Originally Posted: 05/23/2010)
I've seen reluctance towards wearing khakis on this board. However, I have a pair of wool dress slacks that are a dark tan color. Will this pass in a BB for business casual or should I stick to only darker shades?
any help?
I've seen people do it. Its not very common, but honestly the whole shit about wearing loafers and Hugo Boss 24/7 is a stereotype that is greatly exaggerated on this forum.
If you look presentable and are confident in what youre wearing, you'll be fine. People might fuck around with you in a good natured way for the more casual look, but the bottom line is whether or not you do your job well. Get a feel for the group youre in, and most likely than not, rocking tan slacks isn't going to rub anyone the wrong way.
Yes. They are called khakis. They need to be the kind that would go well with a blazer. Obviously, please do not wear distressed khakis or cargo pants to work; AE or A&F khakis with a dress shirt probably won't cut it any more than a pair of jeans.
Is it really so hard to wear a normal suit?
wtf is business casual? (Originally Posted: 06/26/2013)
Can someone provide me with a good working definition of 'business casual'?
http://www.gq.com/style/wear-it-now/201009/new-business-casual-septembe… Read and enjoy.
It's like business but a little more laid back. But really, you could get away with khakis and a polo in business casual. No tennis shoes, flip flops, common sense.
In the summer, it seems to be khakis + polo shirt.
I think the ideal is dress pants + dress shirt.
It shouldn't exist, because while it sounds good in theory...many people are retards and don't know how to dress and hence, abuse it.
Agreed, but that makes it even better for those who DO know how to dress.
I am not really sure how hard it is to comprehend business casual. You could explain it to a five year old. Its a shirt and dress pants. This is the standard and regarding polos, this depends entirely on each company.
polo and khakis plus loafers
"Every organization has a different definition of business casual. Some require suits without ties; others permit flip-flops. While no hard and fast rules exist, the following should be considered: Business casual includes the word “business” and implies that work is not the playground. It is always safer to lean toward dressy instead of casual. Business casual is sometimes defined as conservative sportswear, such as dress pants, skirts, collared sport shirts, loafers, etc. Tuck in shirts, do not reveal too much skin, and always iron your clothes. Business casual does not include T-shirts, sweatshirts, jeans of any color, shorts, or sneakers. It is unacceptable at work to look sloppy. Always overdress for the first day of work. Look at your colleagues on the first day and decide how casual you can be for the next day. It may be good to buy the majority of your wardrobe after your first day of work. You will see what is accepted and fashion consistent at the office. Your clothing purchases will then be items that you will want to wear at work. If you look in the mirror and say, “I can get by with this,” it is time to rethink your outfit. Your clothing makes a very lasting impression. Always ask, 'What message am I sending by my choice of dress?'" -BYU Marriott School of Management
Come to think of it, the easiest outfit is a suit (jacket off) with a simple shirt. Throw on the jacket/tie if necessary.
Those sweaters look ridiculous. If you want to stay warm wear a coat.
No, don't risk polos if you're at an investment bank. You are junior... or else you wouldn't be asking this. Wear a solid blue, white, or subtly stripe shirt and dark dress pants or khakis. Wer socks with your shoes. Nothing else is acceptable... I don't care wtf others are wearing. Be professional.
People use and abuse the term "business casual"
In every place I've worked the definition and parameters of "business casual" have all been different. When given the opportunity, the majority of people will dress down as low as possible. It's a sad fact but the majority of our society DO NOT care what they look like...
With being said, always over dress no matter the occassion.
Without a suit and tie
depends if in a financial hub or satellite office. nyc...blue/white collared shirt at the minimum. You can relax a bit more outisde. Khakis can work if its more relaxed. match the belt and shoe.
definitely no tie.
Don't wear a tie, and don't wear a suit. Those seem like the basic requirements. The actual work environment will determine the rest.
Need help with Business Casual Shoes (Originally Posted: 07/23/2014)
I was wondering if somebody could point me in the direction of business casual shoes. I don't really have a pair, and the shoes that I do have seem to be a bit too formal. Looking for something that I can wear maybe occasionally on the weekends in the office, but also comfortable enough to be worn going out on the weekends without being too formal.
I realize by and large the consensus is that Sperrys are too casual, but I was wondering if something like these: http://www.shoes.com/en-US/Product/EC1404950-5012959/Sperry+Top-Sider/A…
would pass for business casual? If not, does anybody have any other suggestions? I need to buy the pair tomorrow, so if you have any suggestions for good shops in Midtown/Downtown, I'd love to hear em.
Alden calfskin (dark or black) penny loafers are both, can be worn with everything from a suit to khaki shorts. Or horsebit loafers.
those sperrys may be a bit too casual.
look along the lines of loafers or even more conservative drivers
i personally like these, from the sperry line http://www.sperrytopsider.com/en/wave-driver-penny-loafer/11436M.html?d…
you also could go the more expensive loafer route, like ferragamo (which a lot of people on this site have a hard-on for) http://www.ferragamo.com/shop/en/usa/men/shoes-1/slip-ons-1/penny-loafe…
personally not a fan of ferragamo, as i think their too flashy overall. but to each their own i guess.
hope this helps.
Nunn Bush is excellent. They're inexpensive, durable, and most have gel in the sole to make them comfortable for walking. A basic design that's black but not too shiny might be exactly what you're looking for.
Question about business casual (Originally Posted: 06/23/2008)
Are loafers with horsebit/metal fine for business casual?
Absolutely.
Either you sling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot
Yup.
Business Casual Interview... (Originally Posted: 07/04/2011)
I have an upcoming interview that is business casual. I was wondering if I would be okay wearing a suit and tie but no suit jacket, would I be penalized for this?
sounds fine
Business casual=no tie
I was under the impression that business casual means jacket or tie, but not both.
I think I look better with a tie so I was gonna go that route. I just wanna make sure I wont stand out.
Hey I ran into one of these interviews and went suit no tie. I got the internship so take that for w.e its worth. I don't think the tie is a great idea as you may some off as not being able to follow directions.
MS New York Business Casual (Originally Posted: 04/12/2008)
Im interning @ MS Investment Management this summer, and wanted a heads up on the dress code.
I've heard its business casual, but "New York Business Casual," which I understand to be suit+tie w/o the jacket.
Could you confirm/elaborate?
i just did a lot of research about this
typically you never wear a tie without a jacket. so dress shirt(blue/white stripes or checks), wool pants, no tie. I have not yet figured out proper shoes. Some say black shoes are too formal. no black trousers/suits ever. charcoal or navy. suit pants are fine. also button down collars are always worn without ties and spread or narrow collars are to be worn with or without ties. be sure to get your shirt and pants tailored by the best tailor you can find. a proper fit is much more important than quality of the material
i am sure no one actually cares though
I agree with anon about not wearing a tie without a jacket. To be safe, I'd wear a blazer or wear a suit without a tie.
with a suit- oxford lace ups-- i recommend AE park aves without a suit- probably go with something more casual, some type of nice loafer.
Business Casual - Good places to shop for business casual? (Originally Posted: 03/24/2012)
Just curious what some of you guys would consider good places to shop for business casual attire? I'm starting a new job soon, and since the dress code is business casual I'm looking to go shopping soon.
try gilt groupe. great deals on nice stuff -- a lot of business formal, but you can find some nice stuff
Banana Republic, Bonobos, Uniqlo, etc
Just go buy them with a girl most of them know everything about clothes
No man with a working penis should ever shop with a girl or have her pick out clothes for him.
nordstroms/brooks brothers have always been good to me during my first couple of years
Can't you just wear your normal dress shirt with no tie and the top button unbuttoned for business casual..?
Brooks, bro.
Are you going to start at my firm soon?
I ordered 8 shirts, was I supposed to get 8 ties from CT? I chose one... lol
The deal is 1 free tie and you can order anywhere from 1 to 5 shirts. I don't think they will let you order 8 for $40 each
Business Casual Wardrobe (Originally Posted: 01/11/2008)
I know there are plenty of clothing threads, but most/all of them are on business formal attire.
I'll be starting a middle-office position in July at GS and have found out that the dress code is business casual. I went and met with my future co-workers and supervisors and they explained that its just shirt and pants- no jacket and no tie.
So, I'm curious what I should go out and buy. Should I get suits just in case? What kind of shirts should I get? What kinds of pants? Is it just standard/boring white shirt, black pants or what should I look for?
I'm a little lost so any advice is much appreciated!
Thanks!
MY advice (and I don't know about GC specifically) is go out at get a couple pairs of pants - black, a charcoal, grey, pinstripe, whatever. Also make sure you have a decent amount of dress shirts (white, different blues, other light colors typically work).
That should start you off fine and then you can observe what everyone else in the office is wearing and get more clothes if necessary. However, the clothes I recommended are always a necessity.
If you will ever be meeting with clients, you will probably need a suit. I'd probably wait on that if you're not sure.
If you dont mind me asking, what middle office position did you accept. Also go to Charles Tyrwhitt for shirts. About 65-75 bucks a shirt and nice looking.
if you decide to take lotus6's advice and get charles tyrwhitt shirts (which are fine for someone who's just starting in the industry and in a business casual environment), wait till they go on sale...same w/ brooks brothers, thomas pink, etc. they always are having sales for random reasons so no need to pay list price for them
Business Casual - Slacks with a button up? (Originally Posted: 03/25/2011)
I'm starting a new job within the next month and the dress code is business casual. I know slacks with a button up shirt (no tie) counts, but I'm honestly not sure what else fits under business casual? Second, any tips for which stores I should check out?
This is easy....
Get nice black shoes, some nice black/gray dress pants (maybe 5) and get 10 or so decent light colored dress shirts - I'd go mostly blue and white with minimal patterns.
This is definitely a good start and then you can get a feel for the office. After a month if you notice that khakis are acceptable go pick up a few pairs and brown shoes. When it gets cold again maybe a sweater or two to layer over your collared shirts.
If you start with the basics that are accepted everywhere you can't go wrong. It won't take you too long to see what works with your office, just make sure you don't make your decisions based on what the sloppy guy gets away with - dress at least on par with the average dressers in your office.
As to where to go - it really depends upon location and budget. Macy's will have everything I listed here at an ok quality and be relatively inexpensive. Outlet Malls and places like Nordstrom Rack can also be good options but they also depend upon location and budget.
More specifically places that I tend to like (I'm fairly budget friendly, but always professional when it comes to my wardrobe): Shirts - Brooks Brothers outlet pants - I really got lucky at Nordstrom Rack, they even tailored for free since I bought 5 pairs about a month ago otherwise maybe MAcy's shoes - I usually hit up Johnston & Murphy's or Ecco at the outlet mall. Spend the extra $25 on a pair of shoes - you will wear them a lot and spending a little extra here can go a long way. casual khakis and shirts for the office - Macy's seems to work well for me.
Thanks! Any ideas on comfortable shoes? Most dress shoes are uncomfortable and since I'm taking the bus, I'll be doing a bit of walking. On the other hand, they have to actually look nice, so I can't just get some comfortable shoes with a rubber sole.
bostonians have worked well for me - depending on how much walking you do you might have to get them re-soled every now and then (~$20), but they were plenty comfortable for me when i had to hike around the city for a little while, and they looked fine too - maybe get a $7 polish kit to touch them up every few weeks.
each pair should run you $60-$70 if you buy the right way - macy's sales/coupons, syms, other discounters
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